dyno results and EMS question

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

k i my scanner isn't working at the monet so i cant post them up but n e ways my brother payed for my tunning for x-mas woopie n e ways i was mad i got was lees than i expected lmk what u guys think .............


255 whp and 306 lbs of TQ @ 17 lbs of boost

mods are
SR20det red top
Baker steel braided turbo lines
cosmetic head gasket
Gt2871r (.64)
megan exh. manifold
full 3" exhaust
Aem Ems
s14 oem radiator
electric
greddy Vspl fmic
740cc deathwerks injectors
sard fpr
walbro 255 fp
nismo fpr
nismo trany mounts and engine mounts
megan pulley set
stage 2 Exedy clutch



I'm wondering why i got more Tq than hp and i was actually expecting/ hopping for at least 280whp iv seen the same setup put out 300whp or even a lil more so yeah id figure i might get 250 tq and 280-300 hp but yeah other way around any ideas why? or does 250 sound right?



n also my 2 step launch i cant activate it cause my car doesnt read speed n the odometer doesnt work id figure the speed sensor doesnt work so that why any idea how to wier it up to a switch? i was told i could do that so yeah ........

[GSXRJJordan]

Damn Gus - glad you finally got that AEM in there and tuned, where'd you go/who did it?

Your powerband is probably pretty low in the revs, right? HP is measured as a function of torque and RPMS, and that's why you'll always see the HP and torque numbers cross at 5250* RPM - any time you're making more torque than HP you're loosing efficiency at the top end somewhere. I'd need to see the graph to know for sure, but the first things I'd check are fuel pressure and spark plugs.

About getting the launch control down, head over to AEM's forums, and check around in the 240 forum for common causes and search for the wiring diagram - I think it's a resistor wired in with a switch (to switch resistance on and off) but you'll need to get on there to find out what size/where to wire it in.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

....................................

[reactor]

Just to clear something up, it crosses at 5250.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

yeah i know but i didnt wanna post up every single one so yeah

[allstar]

post the dyno sheet.. i havnt seen it yet

BTW - your car looked more like 300+whp when you raped that little honduh at the races..
another win for the nismoknights..

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

k here they are lmk what u guys think ...


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/Studgus/Picture-1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/Studgus/Picture001-1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/Studgus/Picture002-1.jpg

[S14DB]

I would like to see the timing map. Looks like they put no advance when boost comes on.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

any other suggestions?


k i checked my fuel pressure its pretty low i believe 26 ... do u guys think that was the problem?
but im kinda thinking not cause as far as i know they car control how much fuel goes in through the aem can't they?

[S14DB]

I think it's a timing advance issue from your Dynos.

Hook the 2 step up to the clutch switch.

[usdm180sx]

any other suggestions?


k i checked my fuel pressure its pretty low i believe 26 ... do u guys think that was the problem?
but im kinda thinking not cause as far as i know they car control how much fuel goes in through the aem can't they?

a/f starts out lean but stabilizes at ~11.5 which is ok. Did you check the TIMING?

[gt3071r240]

I agree it looks like there was no changes made to the timing map once the engine went into boost, see how quicly the tq drops off. . . Looks to be a uncomplete tune, what shop did the work?

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

hey nice turbo ^^ 3071r haha i was gonna get that one ... but church automotive did my tune .. guy named shawn ... so u guys suggest going some where else?

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

Hook the 2 step up to the clutch switch.
i hooked it up and spools great but if i try and launch it itll go but since my car still doesnt read speed/mph then it cuts out at 4k cause its supposto read that it hits 2 mph and cut off so yeah

[Tex Willer]

Is the 4,085:1 diff. ratio correct? In what gear did you run on the dyno?

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

Is the 4,085:1 diff. ratio correct? In what gear did you run on the dyno?
i guess im stupid or slow cause i dont know what ur talking about when u say 4,085:1 diff .... my rear i have a welded? not what ur talking about ha? maybe ur talking about my gear ratio well i dont know .... and it was 4th gear ....

[Dr.Baby]

i know you hit me up in a PM but from what it looks like is the typical "i need cams and an intake manifold" dyno. it looks about right for where your mods are at.

if you get a greddy intake manifold and some like step 1 or 2 cams you'll probably see like another 75hp-100hp. the stock cams and intake manifold are choking you back soooo much.

hope that helps, i was just catching up on my PM's and i just saw yours figured ide post it in the thread instead. glad the aem box worked out for you.

[Flybert]

With 17psi on a gt2871r .64 with no cams, you should be making around 300whp-330whp. My guess is that it's the timing or it's your motor. Have you checked the compression on your motor lately?

[gt3071r240]

With 17psi on a gt2871r .64 with no cams, you should be making around 300whp-330whp. My guess is that it's the timing or it's your motor. Have you checked the compression on your motor lately?


I Agree check the mechanical condition of the engine and if all is good you I would look at your timing map. I made 304whp on 16psi with the 3071r .64a/r stock im, stock cams with a shitty safc tune. . I would expect to see higher numbers than that, you are definetly gonna pick up some hp by putting some cams in and a greddy intake manifold also.

[Papo240]

I Agree check the mechanical condition of the engine and if all is good you I would look at your timing map. I made 304whp on 16psi with the 3071r .64a/r stock im, stock cams with a shitty safc tune. . I would expect to see higher numbers than that, you are definetly gonna pick up some hp by putting some cams in and a greddy intake manifold also.
I also agree im pushing 280whp @ 11psi with a 20G (top mount), 750cc injectors, stock everething with a SAFC

[vrooompssssht]

no real help, but thats really low

my friend did 252whp, 230tq on a dynojet

oh.. and recently at 260 on dynapacks

sr20 redtop
safc
gt2871r, 10psi
greddy fmic
trust dp/exhaust
stock turbo elbow
megan (LOL) manifold

[RBS14]

Post up your timing map. Until we see it its all guesses. ALL of your power in a tune is in the timing.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

k i just went out to check my compression and i got 195 195 195 200 my last motor was 160 /155 all across so i was supprised by my comppresion numbers on this motor ... k but i put the spark plugs back in and so on turned the car on and it was ideling ruff so im like wtf! right... i check the coils dissconect the plugs one by one and my second one is out its not the coil though cause i swapped coils and its still #2 .. I'm thinking its the wiere, so now im trying to figure out why that went out by checking comppresion? .. haha were to get one?


how can i post up the graph? if my laptop doesnt have internet? i just have the aem on there nothing else .... any other way?

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

Hook the 2 step up to the clutch switch.
hey what's up man how would i do that?

[vrooompssssht]

. i check the coils dissconect the plugs one by one and my second one is out its not the coil though cause i swapped coils and its still #2 .. I'm thinking its the wiere

Could also be that that cyl's injector isnt working, check for actual spark from that coil, and for 12v at the injector plug for that cyl

[S14DB]

May want to hook up the VSS and install it this way.
http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/500/70142step.jpg
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,2186.0.html

Standard way is to wire the clutch switch as an input and use that to turn the 2step on and off. Looks like you have a S13->S14 hybrid. I won't even try to figure out the pinout. Look in the aplication notes for your ems model.

To get the map. Open up the timing map(table veiw) and Hit 'Print Screen' then go into Paint or Photoshop and hit paste in a new window and save the image.

Do you have the latest firmware and AEMTuner?

[Wykydtron]

:D Infamous Coolant Temperature Sensor out? X_X You never know... That could throw off an engine's timing. *scratches head* You can't rule out every variable!

If the ECU reads -80 or 380 degree's... lolol, you'd understand how it would wack the timing.

[S14DB]

:D Infamous Coolant Temperature Sensor out? X_X You never know... That could throw off an engine's timing. *scratches head* You can't rule out every variable!

If the ECU reads -80 or 380 degree's... lolol, you'd understand how it would wack the timing.
EMS only uses the coolant temperature for starting.

[TurK]

i put down 253whp and 250tq with the stock t28 stock injectors stock ecu. you should be making way more.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

May want to hook up the VSS and install it this way.
http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/500/70142step.jpg
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,2186.0.html

Standard way is to wire the clutch switch as an input and use that to turn the 2step on and off. Looks like you have a S13->S14 hybrid. I won't even try to figure out the pinout. Look in the aplication notes for your ems model.

To get the map. Open up the timing map(table veiw) and Hit 'Print Screen' then go into Paint or Photoshop and hit paste in a new window and save the image.

Do you have the latest firmware and AEMTuner?
thing is my speed sensor isnt working so i can boost while im at a stop like a 2 step but since it doesnt read mph i put it to set off at 2 mph but obiously it never reads 2 pmh so it it dossent diss activate .. so it wont let me go past the rev cut/ fuel cut

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

k figured out why cyl #2 was acting funny my dumb ass smashed the spark plug so yea fixed it and ran good but still wondering why hp numbers r so low

[S14DB]

thing is my speed sensor isnt working so i can boost while im at a stop like a 2 step but since it doesnt read mph i put it to set off at 2 mph but obiously it never reads 2 pmh so it it dossent diss activate .. so it wont let me go past the rev cut/ fuel cut
Change the switch input from always on to on when closed. Make sure the clutch switch is wired correctly. Why doesn't your VSS work?

Your Problem is TIMING. You need more advance as boost comes on.

[johngriff]

DYNApacks!

ROFLCOPTER!!!!

This is OBVIOUSLY a timing issue, MOTHER OF GOD. Give me your email, i'll email you a timing map, just plug the numbers in.

Next time find a shop w/ Dyno Dynamics, maha, mustang dyno etc.

EMS only uses coolant temp for starting? LAME.

If it is NOT timing, then it is headgasket, typical cometic touch and go sealing.

Pressure test the cooling system under load.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

k thanx and i pm'd u my e mail ... thnx again
Gus

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

Change the switch input from always on to on when closed. Make sure the clutch switch is wired correctly. Why doesn't your VSS work?

Your Problem is TIMING. You need more advance as boost comes on.
vss would be going on my speed my speed sensor doesnt work so there for my car doesnt read mph why i dont know ...

[johngriff]

my car doesnt read mph why i dont know ...

AEM rofl.

I emailed you a good timing map for you car btw.

[usdm180sx]

k thanx and i pm'd u my e mail ... thnx again
Gus

Just wondering why you're so dense. TIMING was mentioned SEVERAL times in this thread yet you kept asking about other things.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

really cause i was hopping its was maybe something else .. cause i didnt feel like taking my car back to churches automotive and cause i dont feel like adding timming myself with knowing what im doing so yeah ... thats why .. i registered to the AEM forums maybe ill learn a lil more

[usdm180sx]

Sorry to sound harsh. I was thinking since they tuned it they should fix the timing issue. I hope you get it fixed because you'll enjoy your car that much more!

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

k well Icompared the timming graphs with one that jhon had from haltech and my timing isnt off its litterally off by dicimals so yeah .....

he suggested maybe its the base timing but i dont know yet ill have to check that sometime this week

[S14DB]

Are you running MAF or IAT+MAP?

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

iat + map
message length

[GSXRJJordan]

Damn sorry to hear that it wasnt something as easy as changing some ignition numbers... if the base timing was that far off, I'm pretty sure someone would have checked it while tuning, but you never know. You checked into aftermarket intake manis? You're right about where you'll need a mani/cams/adj gears, which means some $$$ and another trip to the dyno :)

but on the bright side, after that you should be lookin at 350, and that's higher than I'd go on my daily driver w/ its stock internals

Good luck man ~

[steve shadows]

maybe it was the fact that is was CHURCH AUTOMOTIVE and not a nissan specialty shop...

eh?

maybe you have a t28 + horrible base timing as explained over the phone last night...

It is responsibilty of the tuner to double check base iginition and setup on both the car and the Unit before tuning, I doubt they did that. :coolugh:

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

yeah thanx for taking ur time on the phone once again ^ ^ ^ ^ .. and only wierd thing on the turbo was the stock wga is set at 17lbs/psi we never moved it and i highly doubt its a T28 cause thats what i use to have and compared them both and u can easly tell a difference so yeah i dont know

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

does anyone know why my waste hate would be set at 17 psi? stock?

[S14DB]

Cause it's not stock...

Where did you get this weird amalgam of parts?

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

i believe its called turbonetics or some thing like that they sale garret turbos and so on .... a big turbo shop in san bernadino ca


heres a pic of it


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/Studgus/IMG_7921.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/Studgus/IMG_7923.jpg

[S14DB]

That's a GT2871R Not a T28R. You noted that in the mods list but confused people by saying T28 instead of 2871. You should be making a lot more power at 17psi.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT28/GT2871R_743347_2.htm

Get a real air filter on that thing before you destroy the compressor.

[WILDACEX187]

yea u need to put something on there. u can get dirt and shit in ur engine

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

That's a GT2871R Not a T28R. You noted that in the mods list but confused people by saying T28 instead of 2871. You should be making a lot more power at 17psi.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT28/GT2871R_743347_2.htm

Get a real air filter on that thing before you destroy the compressor.

no i did mention it was a gt2871r .. as posted on my very first post but yeah ill be getting an intake to cover that soon dont drive anyways but when i do id rather be safe than sorry so yeah ... @ 17psi dont see how it only mad that much hp .. but i guess im gonna have to deal with it and maybe get dyno tuned somewhere else see what happends


wait if im understanding this correct by the part number u looked up witch was my tubo its a .86 a/r ????

[jkjunior]

nice setup bud

[johngriff]

Hey gus, after looking at your timing map, there really shouldnt be any "dyno" service that needs to be done right now. We are pretty sure its a base timing/ cas setup issue, for your car, for that turbo etc.

S14 has been letting me in on the world of aem a little bit, by the time you come by this weekend i should be all read up.

[steve shadows]

the map needs to be re-done to match the change in timing if base timing is off.

[WILDACEX187]

so wat u guys are saying is that his timing at idle isnt 15 degrees like its suppose to be? i dont understand wat u guys mean by base timing

[johngriff]

Right, in the cas setup, there "should be" a base timing figure, along with tooth offset and other info about the cas. The cas needs to be matched against this in the software. So if the cas is really at 5deg and the EMS thinks its at 15deg, the WHOLE thing will be incredibly scewed.

[hahahahaha]

wait if im understanding this correct by the part number u looked up witch was my tubo its a .86 a/r ????

^^^ :confused: :tweak: 64 is it a 86 ??

[johngriff]

ATTN nissan people.

DO not go to church auto.

Base timing was so off, it was silly.

Gus came by today, got all fixed up, his base timing was more than 15 degrees off!!

We also setup his two step, and the car is running hard now.

Watch out!

[usdm180sx]

Very cool! Got a dynochart?

[WILDACEX187]

wow 15 degrees off? but isnt base timing 15 degrees? wat the hell are they doing over at church's?

[bkfill]

my car made 320hp 19psi
didnt touch the timing, i dont remember but i think it was on a dynojet

stock block(1996 sr20det)
blitz LM intercooler kit
gt2871r .64
afc
greddy dp/no cat/hks hi-power 2.5" exhaust
and safe afc tune(i dont remember what it was might of been 11.5 or 12.1 straight accross
550cc injectors sard

i think i had a boost leak i found a slit in one of the silicone hoses recently)

[johngriff]

He mentioned going to dyno maybe next weekend. He needs to fix some other issues with his exhaust system. The timing light, was placing OFF the marks for the crank pulley.

With this taken into account, and after looking at his map, the tuning of his timing map was completely erroneous, as how they could not have achieved maximum tourqe output vs timing and load cell point, with such bad base timing.

Otherwise, if only tuned for the sake of air fuel ratio, this can easily be accomplished on the street, and needs no intuitive feedback or load manipulation from the dyno to be achieved. A good wideband o2 sensor logged into the ems could accomplish this goal by itself.

Otherwise, for the sake of a horsepower pull, from looking at his charts, my professional observation is that the dyno packs used are very inaccurate.

[S14DB]

Dynapacks are very accurate. If you know how to use them...

AEM EMS is very adjustable and is where people run into problems with timing. It's easy with a Distributor ignition with external coil. DIS makes it a whole lot of fun as you've found out. Once you get the CAS Zeroed out it makes life a lot easier.

[buku_points]

damn gus you took my old car to the extreme!!!!! made pretty good numbers but your hp is pretty low for that much boost,keep me updated on how it goes! g/l!!!!!!

[2forty]

wow how much did that ems set u back........ u must of had some cash lying around for that thing................