DD/mountian driving sway bars

[JDMClifford]

So I've Ben looking for some aftermarket sway bars. I'm not to sure what to get. I'm not going to drift this car since its my DD. I'm looking for more for a setup witch will let me handle the mountain roads better. My price range in around $300 because i need to also buy a new steering rack this week. The reason I'm not sure what to buy is because i have Ben reading certain ones are for drifting.

This is what i have Ben looking at. Will it work for what I'm looking for?

Suspension Techniques Front and Rear Sway Bar Set Nissan 240sx 89-94. Front Bar Diameter 1 1/16 inch, rear bar diameter 13/16 inch.

http://storesense.megawebservers.com/HS318/-strse-301/Suspension-Techniques-Front-and/Detail.bok
__________________________________________________ _________
and should i get aftermarket end links while I'm down there?

[HyperTek]

yes they should work since you said you dont want something too stiff

[JDMClifford]

alright cool thanks for the help

[JDMClifford]

i was also looking at the GODSPEED anti sway cars, they are alot cheeper.

FRONT- 30.05mm
REAR - 28.29mm
-Full Chromemoly Construction, Handling Master
-Bolt On, Stock Mounting
-No Adjustment Necessary
-Solid Bushings Included

what is the differance? just quality? and why would these be crap compared to the other ones?

[TipStylez]

^Didnt someone do a review on that here?

I also wanted to know about them.

[JDMClifford]

i couldnt find anything.

[Anto]

Nooooo

The Godspeed sways are chromoly tube & they are crush bent instead of mandrel bent.

I was seriously considering getting these bars, but I realized that the rear bar was WAY thick. The front/rear ratio gets all out of wack & would probably create massive oversteer.

I think i'm going to go with the ST ones. Best bang / Buck

[JDMClifford]

not mandrel bent? what crap!. well thx for the info, saved my ass.

[Replicant_S14]

not mandrel bent? what crap!.

What difference does it make?

[Irukandji]

If you can find it, you can always get a hicas rear sway bar. It's much cheaper than most aftermarket sway bars and is close to the same diameter.

[Wei240]

If you can find it, you can always get a hicas rear sway bar. It's much cheaper than most aftermarket sway bars and is close to the same diameter.

and be careful which hicas you get it from

usdm hicas = 21mm
jdm hicas (on some models, i think just the 89-90 models) = 17mm
stock ones = 15mm

i had all three

[!Zar!]

Blah blah blah. Whiteline. You can adjust them.

And there isn't a huge need to upgrade the end links. So you can save a little money.

And remember, most stuff marketed for, "drifting" and what not is just regular performance parts. Named to appeal to a certain crowd.

If you do go the cheaper way, as said by n1sm0r, get a hicas rear bar.

And while you're at it, get a hicas steering rack. Better steering ratio imo.

[OptionZero]

stock bars from an S14 SE with upgraded endlinks (ball joints) would probably make a big difference, Turdz was considering making his own and IIRC found that the price is favorable to purchasing new ones.

You can always ask SPL or any largus dealer if u wanna shell out some cash

Stock bushings will probably reduce the effectiveness of any bigger sway bar you get.

Just a thought, haven't done it myself.

[Jung918]

There is also Tanabe and Largus anti-sway bars. The Tanabe ones should be around your price range.

[MELLO*SOS]

Whiteline makes nice sway bars, I am very satisfied with mine. I got mine from PDM iirc.

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/WL_bar_02A.jpg (http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/suspension.html)

[e1_griego]

What difference does it make?

Yeah, can anyone answer why the godspeed bars wouldn't be fine?

I already have s/t bars on my s13, just curious.

Alex

[chuy]

I got Tanabes and love them spent a day looking for the endlinks though.

[RPS13FREAK]

I used to have Largus sway bars F & R. They are really thick, but super super super lightweight. If you set the front sway on the first hole understeer goes away. They made the car feel a lot more solid on the mountain roads & when my car would oversteer it felt very controllable. I can't really say anything about daily driving because my car was rough on the streets since I would keep my coilovers on medium to hard dampening.

[mbmbmb23]

I heard the R32 rear sway bar is like 25mm or 27mm thick and bolts up...you might research that a bit and try hitting up a Skyline chat board's "for sale" section.


-m

[Gilboyto]

I think whitelines are good, but can also be expensive. I just put the Suspension Techniques on mine, got both for a steal. Summit had them for $240 for front and rear kit. I noticed a huge increase in the rear especially, and the front doesnt roll as much either.

Heres some pics of them installed incase you wanted to see...
Heres the rear with endlink...
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/Gilboyto/DSC05225.jpg


Heres the front comparison:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/Gilboyto/DSC05248.jpg

And heres the front with the endlink:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/Gilboyto/DSC05250.jpg

[SoSideways]

That green is awesome. And the red bushings = good bushings :D

[Kaizen.]

I love my suspension techs!

[Irukandji]

Sweet xmas sway bars.

[JDMClifford]

I think whitelines are good, but can also be expensive. I just put the Suspension Techniques on mine, got both for a steal. Summit had them for $240 for front and rear kit. I noticed a huge increase in the rear especially, and the front doesnt roll as much either.

Heres some pics of them installed incase you wanted to see...
Heres the rear with endlink...
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/Gilboyto/DSC05225.jpg


Heres the front comparison:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/Gilboyto/DSC05248.jpg

And heres the front with the endlink:
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l162/Gilboyto/DSC05250.jpg


wow they dont look much biger than stock is it really worth the money?

jsut for a referance i have front/rear strut tower brace, rear under brace, front power/under/subframe or whatever brace, c pillar bar, Tokico blues and cut stock springs. would i notice biger swaybars? and its an s13 btw.

[JDMClifford]

ohh, also jsut wondering if the 300zx bars or s14 bars will fit?

stock bars from an S14 SE with upgraded endlinks (ball joints) would probably make a big difference, Turdz was considering making his own and IIRC found that the price is favorable to purchasing new ones.

You can always ask SPL or any largus dealer if u wanna shell out some cash

Stock bushings will probably reduce the effectiveness of any bigger sway bar you get.

Just a thought, haven't done it myself.

sounds like s14 se bars fit, but what about aftermarket s14 bars on an s13 or aftermarket 300zx. and would i not want to go to stiff? would it cause me to just slide out?

[!Zar!]

^^^

You would notice that your car's suspension is crappier than it already is.

First purchase real suspension and get rid of those blow shock and ghetto modded springs.

Sway bars will make a HUGE diff in how your car handles.


And did you miss EVERYTHING said in this thread?



Edit: ghsajgnwq; ;kaqspghal

Damnit.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Sway bars aren't ment to stiffen your car.

They stop body roll. And they help maximize your contact patch.


Stop being so fucking ghetto
Do it rite or don't do it at all. Because all you are going to do is trash up your car worse than it is.

[JDMClifford]

I know the sway bars don't stiffen my car up, from the way i understand they try apply the highest percentage coupling between both sides, and to increase the spring rate on the side is compressed the most.

Stop being so fucking ghetto
Do it rite or don't do it at all. Because all you are going to do is trash up your car worse than it is.[/QUOTE]

oh and i am asking because i want to do it right and take the "fucking ghettoness" out of it. So im buying good quality sway bars, new shocks and lowering springs. Theres no way im going to put coilovers on my dd. A to expensive and B not worth the money its not a race car, its a sports car.

Also my car is not trashed. thanks for the help on telling that i would feel a huge difference of the aftermarket sway bars. I appreciate it.

[TougeNinja]

I used to have Largus sway bars F & R. They are really thick, but super super super lightweight. If you set the front sway on the first hole understeer goes away. They made the car feel a lot more solid on the mountain roads & when my car would oversteer it felt very controllable. I can't really say anything about daily driving because my car was rough on the streets since I would keep my coilovers on medium to hard dampening.

what do you mean by "the first hole"? the one farthest out from the actual bar? or the one buting right up to actual bar.... thx in advance!

[TipStylez]

Quick thread jack.

What would be the best setup for a full grip setup?

[nevaland9]

Quick thread jack.

What would be the best setup for a full grip setup?

also interested

[OptionZero]

That would depend on the track, your tire selection, what chassis mods you already have...etc...

Google and search for what a sway bar actually does, look in the mirror and ask yourself what you're going to use the car for, look in your wallet to see how much cash you have, search on Zilvia for previous threads on sway bars

There is no magic "full grip setup" since it is highly specific to individual applications and there are different philosophies to sway bar usage.

But if you want something cool for your mod list on CarDomain, then Tanabe and Largus will get you +10234945 JDM bonus points.

[Replicant_S14]

There is no magic "full grip setup" since it is highly specific to individual applications and there are different philosophies to sway bar usage.



Right on. It's like asking what the best flavor of ice cream is.

[SoSideways]

In that case an adjustable sway bar would probably be best.

Largus, Cusco, and Whiteline bars IIRC are adjustable, and so is Suspension Technique.

[e1_griego]

In that case an adjustable sway bar would probably be best.

Largus, Cusco, and Whiteline bars IIRC are adjustable, and so is Suspension Technique .

Nope. They're not adjustable.

Alex

[Brian]

The Cusco ones I had were also not adjustable.

[Wiisass]

Sway bars are an interesting thing. In one respect they help the handling of the car and in another they hinder the car's ability.

How they help. When you turn, the suspension moves the wheels in an arc. This is your camber curve. You want to have negative camber on the more heavily loaded wheel in order to produce the most possible lateral force. Depending on the tire, the amount of camber desired is different. Some tires love camber, so don't like it as much, but most tires will produce more lateral force with some negative camber versus zero or positive camber. This is due to construction and the way slip angles develop, but that's not something we're going to get into here.

Anyway, sway bars act on the unsprung mass of the car and tie it together with the chassis. So when you are cornering the body wants to roll due to acceleration but the sway bars are acting at this point and they're acting like another spring, which is all they really are. So this limits the amount the suspension will travel. So say you started off with -2 degrees of camber. And as you roll the suspension will gain camber relative to the car, but lose camber relative to the road. At least this is how it works with most suspensions. Stupid stuff like too low MacP cars will gain camber with jounce and make this effect even worse. So for the most part the wheels want to camber in a certain amount per travel but the angle the body is taking is usually more than the camber will be gaining, so you will essentially be losing camber relative to the road. If this goes too far when your car is at it's max roll angle, the camber will also be the closest to positive or you may even have positive camber. Sway bars just act as a stiffer spring in roll that will resist the movement of the body and stop the wheel from traveling as much, therefore allowing you to maintain more of the negative camber the tire wants.

The bad part of all of this is that the sway bar ties together the unsprung mass. On the outside wheel the springs are acting together which makes the spring rate much higher. But on the inside wheel the two springs are fighting. The spring is pushing the tire down while the sway bar is trying to pull the tire up. This will lower the max amount of lateral force that the car is able to provide. Two evenly loaded tires will produce more grip than one fully loaded tire.

So now you should see why sway bars can be good and why they can be bad. So now you have to find a balance between the two. For a softer sprung car that is only on the street, you can get away with a bigger sway bar. But for a real track car, I think that most of the bars on the market are too stiff. I think a softer bar paired with stiffer springs and good dampers is the best setup for a car that is meant to handle at the limit.

The thing with most bars, even with spring rates in the 400-500lb/in range (or 7-9kg/mm for everyone that doesn't realize that kg/mm isn't a real way to rate springs), is that the sway bars will be adding sometimes more than 50% of the roll rate. I don't think this is a good way to do. Ideally, I like to use sway bars to adjust the total lateral load transfer distribution of the car rather than to add to a large percentage of the roll rate of the car. This is the way it should be done for a real race car.

These percentages and numbers are coming from physical testing that I actually did. So there is no speculation there. Everything was measured and analyzed, so I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass to make a point. I wish the numbers were a little different and then I wouldn't have to figure out a better way to do a sway bar so it's not screwing up the handling of the car more than it's helping.

That's why adjustable bars are nice. Depsite being too stiff for the way I would setup a car, you can adjust the front to rear balance of the lateral load transfer. This is a way of defining which end of the car will slip first. So you can add understeer or oversteer through the bars. But this can be done with much softer bars than everyone is running, but most people think the bigger the bar the better.

That's it for now, I probably missed something, if I did, just ask.

Tim

[SoSideways]

Well damn, 2 for 4 aka 50%... that's an F in school.

I fail... Sorry bout that guys :(

[sittinsideways]

wow +1 for you sir

[DoriftoPnoy]

[QUOTE=JDMClifford]So I've Ben looking for some aftermarket sway bars. I'm not to sure what to get. I'm not going to drift this car since its my DD. I'm looking for more for a setup witch will let me handle the mountain roads better. My price range in around $300 because i need to also buy a new steering rack this week. The reason I'm not sure what to buy is because i have Ben reading certain ones are for drifting.

This is what i have Ben looking at. Will it work for what I'm looking for?

QUOTE]


hmm by any chance is your name Ben? iono just a thot...

[Gilboyto]

So I've Ben looking for some aftermarket sway bars. I'm not to sure what to get. I'm not going to drift this car since its my DD. I'm looking for more for a setup witch will let me handle the mountain roads better. My price range in around $300 because i need to also buy a new steering rack this week. The reason I'm not sure what to buy is because i have Ben reading certain ones are for drifting.

This is what i have Ben looking at. Will it work for what I'm looking for?




hmm by any chance is your name Ben? iono just a thot...

^^LOL!!!!
stupidmessagelengthhereyougoisthisbetterofalength?

[DJ_Sunrise]

Ive driven a couple of s14s.. strut and spring combo, coilovers.. etc.. Tims right, you dont need the stiffest shit in the world to handle great. the problem with cars is that you really do need to try different setups and different parts to get the right combinations. I ran tanabe sways on my car before and decided to give Largus a shot.. and with the handcocks i run :P with my Tein HE's set at what they are.. the humongous Largus bars work better for me.. the biggest thing to think about is what works for you. some like stiff bars some like softer bars. not every bar will fit every persons characteristics.. you'll get the best handling out of what you feel the most comfortable with. if you have to, save up some more money for what will work for you.. in the end it will save you time and money. so chill on the sway bars for a bit see if you can drive some other cars similarly equipped and go from there

-Bart