400hp stock bottem end sr20

[minhs13]

what mods do you think would be good for 400rwhp sr20 with a stock bottem end?

[Dousan_PG]

big turbo
big cams
big injectors
good tune

[McRussellPants]

big headgasket?

[minhs13]

i know all that i saw a fully build head with solid pivots hks cam gears tomei double valve springs tomei 270 12.0 lift cams on intake exhaust but im trying to see whats up you know. well witch turbo do you think is better gt2871r or a greddy t518z? im gotta BE DOING HIGHWAY PULLS BUT I WANNA BE OK ON THE STREETS TO

[johngriff]

Good tune especially, you will not be making that magic 400 with out Good ignition tunning.

So pick:
Specific Tune Rom
Power FC
Haltech
AEM

There are other ems out there but these are most popular. Stay away from piggy backs.

Injectors:
At least 740cc's for pump gas 400.

Cams:
At least HKS 264 Step 2 (10.5mm lift), dont go too big.

Big turbo:
2871r .82 if you really know what you are doing. Otherwise,
62-1
3037
3040
+
+

That and a QUALITY head gasket, so say no to cometic.

There are alot of other supporting things you will need to get there. Consult your most trusted tunning shop with your credit card.

[minhs13]

im gonna go with the d-jetro but im confused. theres crap load of turbos out there im on phase2motortrend and i saw a garrett 2871r gtrs turbo and it looks like the stock t25 look funny but it says its rated for 450hp but that sounds kinda krazy. i want at LEAST!! 380rear wheel you know

[smelly240]

you guys didnt mention valve springs ;)

if u can score a apexi gasket grab it up.

a gt2871R has a small turbo footprint but they make nice power. not everyone gets 400 outta them - but if u want response and 400hp capability its hard to ignore.

they make those turbos with a stock type turbo inlet (2 bolt) and with a normal inlet... i dunno anyone with the stock lookin kind.

3071 or 3076 are both 400+'ers as is the 3037s mentioned above.

[McRussellPants]

2871 looking like a T25 is crazy.

so crazy infact, that I should have spelled it with a K.

2871 looking like a T25 is Krazy.

[TAMTANIUM]

johngriff - Hi, i just want to know your opinion why cometic is not a good headgasket for the application? I have a cometic head gasket myself and so far so good.

[smelly240]

if u dont get the head and block decked - the cometics blow - FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD

i dont have one. search FA

[TAMTANIUM]

if u dont get the head and block decked - the cometics blow - FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD

i dont have one. search FA

Well,

When people are planning on using any metal head gasket. It is best to take the head to a machine shop to get it clean up. The block surface have to be smooth for the head gasket to sit on. Next step is the proper head studs installation. If everything is done right..I think Cometic, Greddy or Apexi will be good to go.

[drifts135]

Right now my buddy has an sr with a gt2871r .83, 55lb injectors, hks step1 (254 i/e iirc) cams, fmic, enthalpy ecu tune, safc-II, and then the basics (mr exhaust manifold, greddy elbow/dp/exhaust, walbro fp, nismo fpr, yadda yadda yadda, you get the point.

He's right at 402whp right now, stock hg, stock bottom end. Still no signs of anything blowing up (although the hg has to go one of these days).

voila. fact, not people taking assumptions at stuff that will detonate.

[johngriff]

voila. fact, not people taking assumptions at stuff that will detonate.

Huh?

Yeah, search F/A, after we have repeatedly blown cometics, we asked around, had a debate, alot of people came out of the wood work.

This is what i think is entertaining every time i have heard this discussion.

I want 400hp on a stock bottom end.
Use cometic?
Deck head AND BLOCK
So you are completely disassembling the bottom end now?
Why leave it stock?

If you are going to "slap a head gasket on that motha" and 3m wheel the block surface, go with the APEXI gasket. Order it now, get it in two months, stare at it on your shelf until you install it.

You could just tell me i am wrong about the cometic.
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?p=1189453#post1189453

minhs13: I really think you should take your car to a good shop to be built, you will end up the happiest via this route.

[CKAMC]

Great post johngriff! didnt know about the HG deal til now

[TAMTANIUM]

hmm alright. I guess it make sense because guys had bad exeperienced with Cometic already.

But at the last event at willow springs on big willow track. I was pushing my car to the limit at 19psi all day. So far it's still good and hopefully more to come in the future.

This is why i love forums. It's about researching and gain more knowledge. Then use them to make a decision for yourself. Good stuff guys! :)

[Creizai]

Just to let everyone know Zerolift (local shop) had that headgasket on there 350hp Silvia all year (last year) during formula D so while 400+ may be too much its a quality headgasket.

[johngriff]

Had to search F/A for a min to find this.

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=153517&highlight=cometic+head+gasket

Have at it.

[LB.Motoring]

2871 looking like a T25 is crazy.

so crazy infact, that I should have spelled it with a K.

2871 looking like a T25 is Krazy.


? haha looks more like a t28 :loco:

http://p.office1000.com/gmr/KG582BOR.jpg

[smelly240]

im so with griff on this - im a long timer on FA and there are like 20 unhappy people to every one or 2 that have luck with the cometics. u gotta pull hte friggin motor to get em to work - so eff that crap.

GFG johngriff - leetjuice FTW

AND I REPEAT - VALVESPRINGS

[codyace]

This thread is killing me.

Here's my setup:

Jim Wolf ECU, Jim Wolf S3 Cams, GT2871r .64(extrude honed), Stock Exhaust Manifold (Extrud honed/Swained), Cometic Headgasket, Greddy RSPL FMIC, Greddy Intake Manifold, Greddy O2 housing, MR 3" downpipe, RsR ExMag exhaust...

As I've always maintained, the right parts, used together, will rock. Seems like a majority of those who doubt the JWT, and smaller turbos (again, not everyone) are the same monkeys that slap big ass step 2 cams on mismatched turbos, and stock IM's and untuned setups, and then wonder why they're only making 340 whp/300 trq at 19/20 psi and I'm making more.

What makes this great, is that I also have not datalogged a run with a/f's, so this is still the initial tune from JWT..I also do not have my alcohol injection map tuned in (for roadcourse days) or my launch control (for my occasional drag strip romp). Clark will be tuning these into hopefully before next spring.

Here's the dyno, here's teh car. On the dyno it was hitting 20 psi at around 4000 rpm, but on the street (with load) it hits 20 psi anywhere btween 3500-3700 rpm. Not to shabby.

As far as cometic is concerned, I have had no problems with it on my car, nor on any previous setups (to include dirtbikes). I understand in that thread about how the h/g are crappy yad yada...but I maintain the biggest problems are people not cleaning the block correctly, and not torqueing the headstuds down correctly (as the ARP instructions, IMO, are not right). I sent PM's to various SR tuners/builders and got the general consensus that ARP, torqued in 10 ft lb increments in the OEM number tightening sequence, to 85-90 ft lbs total, is ideal. Does it take a while? Yes...but whats the rush?! I'm not saying the Apexi or Greddy are shit though either, just that the Cometic isn't the garbage that most 'net racers' seem to bash for some reason...


http://www.e-rak.com/cody/albums/Dynos/ace240dyno.jpg

http://www.e-rak.com/cody/albums/album274/Img_2359.sized.jpg

[spdfreek0o]

I wonder if there has been a comparison between cometic vs. oem headgaskets. Anyone know what the HP threshold of an oem headgasket with ARP's is?

[johngriff]

Nice dyno sheet cody. All that money in the setup and not even wide band readout just to get an idea of where you are at? I recomend against the cometic because of what seems a defect in their product run. Yes me and steve, and matt vass, and mazworks: all internet racers. I will sell you a haltech at cost to get rid of your JWT :naughty: http://www.rpsport.net/product/RPS31125

Oh, and as far as the ARP's are concerned, there is a whole other S#$%Storm about those as well. We have had really good luck as of late using brand new oem head studs. Yes, proper touqe technique FTW.

I dont know if a headgasket really has a horsepower rating per say, more like a thresh hold of detonation. The more you knock and pre detonate, the faster you will loose the head gasket.

[codyace]

Nice dyno sheet cody. All that money in the setup and not even wide band readout just to get an idea of where you are at? I recomend against the cometic because of what seems a defect in their product run. Yes me and steve, and matt vass, and mazworks: all internet racers. I will sell you a haltech at cost to get rid of your JWT :naughty: http://www.rpsport.net/product/RPS31125

Hehe. I know you guys aren't net racers, thats why I stressed that in my post too hehe. I look up to you guys for information and for your input as you guys are doing things that 90 percent of this forum (or most 240 owners in general) won't ever be able to provide insight upon. I sometimes wish that I would change my major back to Engineering, so I could partake in some true discussions with you guys, but I've got this strange love for accounting that will enable me to enjoy my car love as a true hobby for my weekends hehe.

FWIW: I do have a PLX M300 in cabin. It idles around 14.4-14.7 and in WOT it stays in the low 11's (11.1-11.4). I know there is power to be made be leaning it out slightly, but with the introduction of E-10 into all gas, I feal as if I'm safer staying a tad rich for how I drive the car.

I've love to take that haltech, but JWT doesn't cost me to terribly much (hehe), and it really performs well for what I do with this car. As I grow older/more knowledgable/have more time, I would love to setup an even more responsive setup (similar to the Dentsports car) in an S13 for road course/sr-x (or whatever class it is now) duty.

Also FWIW: I've seen that plug and play harness a few times...I do visit your store every so often ;)

Oh, and as far as the ARP's are concerned, there is a whole other S#$%Storm about those as well. We have had really good luck as of late using brand new oem head studs. Yes, proper touqe technique FTW.

You're not lying about that! I chose to use ARP again, just because of my use with them in many SBF V8's when I was younger. I guess sometimes I become bullheaded in the respect that I've very loyal to brands and products that have treated me well in the past. Granted they were all N/A setups, but they were all pumping some decent power (410-430ish hp on engine dynos) for OEM Iron head 302s :D

I do like how you guys also up to larger headbolts too. I was just reading a thread on Evans-Tuning (a big honda tuner) about how he likes to do this with extreme boost cars. I know alot of pulling truck guys that run exteme compression alcohol engines also up stud size to keep the head seated.

Has anyone experiemented with Nitrogen Filled or similar o-ring style headgaskets? (I know I know, newb question, but just curious)

I dont know if a headgasket really has a horsepower rating per say, more like a thresh hold of detonation. The more you knock and pre detonate, the faster you will loose the head gasket.

That's exactly what I believe as well. We used to blow them out on on our high compression 4 stroke bikes as well, and we narrowed it down to pinging when we didn't use high octane...luckly dirtbike stuff is cheap to learn on hehe.

Thanks for replying as well. Be sure to have a nice Christmas (if you celebrate) as well today!

[johngriff]

That should be fine not dipping under 11.0. IIRC back in the day some of the jwt's were into th 10's.


Heh man, im in love with your tourqe curve... did i say curve??!! I meant plateau, so HOT! That is what i want only 1000rpms sooner!

[codyace]

Heh man, im in love with your tourqe curve... did i say curve??!! I meant plateau, so HOT! That is what i want only 1000rpms sooner!

I had asked this question in the contibutors lounge on SR20 forum, and Mike Kojima responded by saying the only way to make the torque come on sooner (in his experience with ROM tunes) is to upgrade to Wolf C1 cams, which he commented would enable me to also carry the 400+ whp to 8500ish rpm on the upgraded springs/retainers/cams. He however did also say that he would leave my setup alone for now, and perhaps looking to go that route once or if I ever decide to 'build' an engine.

I'm sure if I went with a GT28RS, it would come on sooner, but in my experience with FWD sr turbo cars, the spud simply doesn't have the top end hp capability...it's one of those trade off's sort to speak...

[minhs13]

well phase2motortrend hit like 500+hp with a stock bottem end sr20. i was like what tha hell! you know, but my sr is complete overhauld. the crank pistons and rods everything has been redone. so far what i have is a greddy 1.2mm metal head gasket,greddy lightweight pullys espelir jgtc 500 full turboback racing exhaust,greddy rocker arm stoppers kazama racing motor mounts and otherstuff i cant remember. but if yall were me what turbo would you get for 380rwhp to 400 rear wheel horsepower with a stock bottem end? a garret 2871r gtrs style,greddy t518z,or the garrett gt2871r turbo? so what turbo would be good for some highway pulls? i here alote of things so what do you think? remember my bottem end has been completely redone so basicly it is a new motor

[codyace]

well phase2motortrend hit like 500+hp with a stock bottem end sr20. i was like what tha hell! you know, but my sr is complete overhauld. the crank pistons and rods everything has been redone. so far what i have is a greddy 1.2mm metal head gasket,greddy lightweight pullys espelir jgtc 500 full turboback racing exhaust,greddy rocker arm stoppers kazama racing motor mounts and otherstuff i cant remember. but if yall were me what turbo would you get for 380rwhp to 400 rear wheel horsepower with a stock bottem end? a garret 2871r gtrs style,greddy t518z,or the garrett gt2871r turbo? so what turbo would be good for some highway pulls? i here alote of things so what do you think? remember my bottem end has been completely redone so basicly it is a new motor

Can you retype this, using paragraphs and english? Why ask this question when that's what the original threads question was anyway...:tweak:

If I were you, run a 2871r .64 @ like 24/25 psi and you'd be set.

[johngriff]

I had no idea p2m did this, i will have to call wayne.

A couple people have done well over 600. I think the debate was in reg to the headgasket.

Cody: Ahh, but i am shooting a little diff. 2.2L, 9.3/1 comp, 3071r. See if i cant pick the tourqe up sooner, and keep it on longer.

[Wei240]

yeah i read it too, i forgot who in FA posted 600 whp on stock bottom end just for kicks (for testing stock HG), but stock bottom end can hold alot (with proper tune of course), totally nuts..

kinda skimmed thru this thread,
but if yall were me what turbo would you get for 380rwhp to 400 rear wheel horsepower with a stock bottem end? a garret 2871r gtrs style,greddy t518z,or the garrett gt2871r turbo? so what turbo would be good for some highway pulls? i here alote of things so what do you think? remember my bottem end has been completely redone so basicly it is a new motor

but do you care if it's bottom/top mount turbo, because turbo selection becomes alot better once you go top mount + full race manifold

[codyace]

I had no idea p2m did this, i will have to call wayne.
Nor did I. Not saying it's not possibly, just didn't know!


A couple people have done well over 600. I think the debate was in reg to the headgasket.

I think there was that one kid from Virginia (or West Viriginia)...was the user tname Rombus or Raucus or something like that)...I think they hit something liek 650+ whp on thier stock block SR....not sure on what headgasket they ran though...


Cody: Ahh, but i am shooting a little diff. 2.2L, 9.3/1 comp, 3071r. See if i cant pick the tourqe up sooner, and keep it on longer.

2.2 would equal what? 90mm pistons? That combined with the raise in C/R should undoubtedly get that 3071r spooling in a hurry....In fact I think your biggest enemy with that setup would be traction! I know with mine as it is now, (granted it is cold out too) I have the biggest problem keeping 2nd gear from spining the whole time (on 245 potenza's)....I can't wait till spring so I can see how it does on some warmer roads.

I drove around all summer with a HUGE vacuum leak, that undoubtedly killed my HP for much of it (the large rubber gromets were pushing up out of the intkake manifold, and around my Injectors....never really had a problem until I was at the glen, and the one actually got stuck 'up' and didn't such back in under vacuum...that's when I knew I had a problem hehe...) The car felt strong and was pretty quick, so I just left it go...now that I fixed it (right before the dyno) it runs 100x better :)

[sr20tom]

they make those turbos with a stock type turbo inlet (2 bolt) and with a normal inlet... i dunno anyone with the stock lookin kind.


Hey i got the gay two bolt intake but that was a sacrifice to retain my $400 HKS Racing suction intake that i bought as a X-mas gift for myself a few years ago.

Will the 550s make it to 400whp? I am waiting for my power FC and now untuned I made 320wheel with a DC manifold GT2871R and a greddy intake manifold. Am i maxing those 550s or can the power FC squeeze a little more out of them with a good tune.

[smelly240]

550s are gonna be not your friend at 400HP... get 650 or more - i'd do like 740 or 810 to have headroom (i hate upgrading injectors)

and i totally forgot your turbo was a 2871R from talking to you that one time way back in the seummer... im still loving that from bumber add on btw

you shouldnt even bother tuning for 400HP til you get some bigger injectors - what cams you got? i got the BC 264's and they woke my car up bigtime. They use the same blanks as JWT cams, and they really kick ass... I got them right when they came out and i think i paid like 255 shipped from enjuku. They were a bigtime step up in the whoa!... they're still crazy cheap - and MBV watched a guy get 100HP from a ebay manifold and these cams a few weeks ago. Thats like 350$ for 100hp - lol...

[johngriff]

Buy a haltech from me and i will match your Injectors for you! ;)

Yeah, hopefully traction will be my biggest problem, im totally going to fanboy it up and try to run formula d pro am here in socal!

[minhs13]

which turbo do you think would be good for highway/street? garrett gt2871r,garrett 2871r gtrs style, or the greddy t518z?