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nlzmo400r
12-24-2006, 09:34 PM
Well now that I have a daily, its time to get serious. Im looking into a new wheel/tire combo. Ive already decided on Enkei RPF1's however am unsure about fitments. The only pictures ive seen with these kinds of sizes are drifters who are slammed and run stretched tires, Im doing this for road racing and will run 285/30 f/r and will have as much suspension travel as possible.

Possible options: Id like to stay away from a stagger, so heres my options


18x10 (+3) f/r with 275/35, or 285/30
18x10.5 (+0) f/r with same tires as above

these of course will be on larger fenders. 30mm overfenders up front, and 50mm overfenders out back. My question is about steering with this wheel/tire setup

heres a few pictures that I've aquired if it'll help any.

scroll down to the green s13, he is much more slammed that I am, however front wheel is 10" (+3) although tiny tire

http://ziptied.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2542&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

scroll to the middle of the thread to the silver s13 with kouki tails. While he is stock body, the rear wheels are 10" (+13), the 10.5s I want to run would stick out 19mm more, however Id have 50mm more of fender to work with.

http://ziptied.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2542&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=750

So what do you think, 10.5s all around with 285/30/18 doable with 30mm front and 50mm rear fenders? I'd like to run about -2.7/-3.2* front camber and about -2.3/-2.8* in the rear.

Anyone running similar sizes while racing ?? on s13??

KA24DESOneThree
12-24-2006, 09:57 PM
Well, overall diameter is only .1" larger than 245/40 and I have no problem clearing that BUT I can imagine a wider tire having fenderwell clearance issues at full lock.

I've gone through the same mess of searching as you have and finally just gave up. The only people who try the craziness are non-drifters over in Japan, it seems and I've forgotten all the Japanese I knew. I want to run something like 17x9 -15 (spacers combined with light wheels), which is similar to 18x10 +3 in terms of effective offset, under 30mm flares and have found no resource to see if I'm going to have clearance issues with the fenders.

Have you gone nuts with a pyrometer with your tires currently? You might not need that much rubber and might as well pare pounds the best way by keeping unsprung weight low.

Did you choose 18s because of increased width/sidewall availability when compared to 17s?

McRussellPants
12-24-2006, 09:59 PM
shit is gonna nuke your powersteering and don't have any plans of getting to full lock.

you can fit anything with rideheight.
you won't need to, and you shouldn't space it to +3, that would be wicked hard to fit with a 285.
Hoosiers liking a shit ton of camber will give you some room to dick with


Sasha on ZT might be on something close to that.

chmercer
12-24-2006, 10:03 PM
since every widefender claims 20mm except b magic which claims 30 ill assume you are talking about b magic, b magic fenders are nearly always narrower than stock pulled metal. you cant just put a measuring tape on your fender lip, measure 30mm, and woohoo! dosent work that way. sooo yeah. youll need somthing else if you want that tire on that wheel. i used an arch flare

rear sure whatever you can fit totally anything on the back, just put the wheels on the car before you put the overfenders on, to make sure you make them wide enough.

and yeah gonna need a power steering cooler

also i just re read this -

"The only pictures ive seen with these kinds of sizes are drifters who are slammed and run stretched tires, Im doing this for road racing and will run 285/30 f/r and will have as much suspension travel as possible."

slamming your car does not take up any suspension travel unless you have shitbrick coilovers / you are so low that you are compressing the shock at static height. never allude to "slammed = no suspension travel" again, NEVER. it is so fucking stupid

nlzmo400r
12-24-2006, 10:20 PM
since every widefender claims 20mm except b magic which claims 30 ill assume you are talking about b magic, b magic fenders are nearly always narrower than stock pulled metal. you cant just put a measuring tape on your fender lip, measure 30mm, and woohoo! dosent work that way. sooo yeah. youll need somthing else if you want that tire on that wheel. i used an arch flare

rear sure whatever you can fit totally anything on the back, just put the wheels on the car before you put the overfenders on, to make sure you make them wide enough.

and yeah gonna need a power steering cooler

also i just re read this -

"The only pictures ive seen with these kinds of sizes are drifters who are slammed and run stretched tires, Im doing this for road racing and will run 285/30 f/r and will have as much suspension travel as possible."

slamming your car does not take up any suspension travel unless you have shitbrick coilovers / you are so low that you are compressing the shock at static height. never allude to "slammed = no suspension travel" again, NEVER. it is so fucking stupid

thanks for your input cmercer. ive seen your car in person once or twice in houston at Grind events. Also, you're incorrect about hte suspension travel bit. If your car is so low that you have 2inches before the tire hits the fender well (aka your new bumpstomps) then you're losing suspension travel. But thats not what this thread is about. The rear 50mm will be a bolt on quarterpanel. Also, I have no intention of going full lock, this will be road/track car, not an autoX car.

McRussellPants
12-24-2006, 10:46 PM
less than 2in of travel is no collars in the coilover low.

chmercer
12-24-2006, 10:47 PM
well yeah obviously if your wheels hit on shit then it wont work, haha, im talking shock travel.

nlzmo400r
12-24-2006, 10:54 PM
well yeah obviously if your wheels hit on shit then it wont work, haha, im talking shock travel.

oops. Well anyway, Ive seen your car in person before as I said, and your wheels are huge. Any severe negatives about having such large wheels and tires. Does the steering go to complete shit?

chmercer
12-24-2006, 11:46 PM
no not really. just need to make sure everything fits, requires careful alignment and measuring to be sure of no rubbing when the suspension is fully loaded and rack is at full lock.

one negative is you will cook the ps fluid if you dont run a cooler. once you put a cooler though it runs colder than stock. also tie rod ends need to be up to snuff to handle the extra rubber. then again if you are road racing there wont be as much load on the rack as there is in drifting when you go back and forth lock to lock multiple times in succession.

at one point i was running 265/35 front 275/35 rear, crap compounds on front and rear, like cooper summer tires, and the grip was nothing short of retarded. i could fuck up so bad and it was all gravy. this was on like street racing curvy backroads and such. and the rear 18x12 with 275 tire weighs less than stock 350z 17s with 225s so unsprung weight, while people like to bitch about it with calculator and physics book in hand, in reality is not really an issue. maybe if you want to set records then yeah whatever but if that was the case you need a new platform.

nlzmo400r
12-25-2006, 12:16 AM
no not really. just need to make sure everything fits, requires careful alignment and measuring to be sure of no rubbing when the suspension is fully loaded and rack is at full lock.

one negative is you will cook the ps fluid if you dont run a cooler. once you put a cooler though it runs colder than stock. also tie rod ends need to be up to snuff to handle the extra rubber. then again if you are road racing there wont be as much load on the rack as there is in drifting when you go back and forth lock to lock multiple times in succession.

at one point i was running 265/35 front 275/35 rear, crap compounds on front and rear, like cooper summer tires, and the grip was nothing short of retarded. i could fuck up so bad and it was all gravy. this was on like street racing curvy backroads and such. and the rear 18x12 with 275 tire weighs less than stock 350z 17s with 225s so unsprung weight, while people like to bitch about it with calculator and physics book in hand, in reality is not really an issue. maybe if you want to set records then yeah whatever but if that was the case you need a new platform.

^^haha, excellent post. I will run a cooler for the p/s. I run tein tierods (inners and outers) right now, and plan to upgrade to spl spherical bearing outers soon. One of my real concerns is f*cking up the scrub radius terribly

chmercer
12-25-2006, 12:46 AM
its not that big of a deal, makes the car tramline on the highway is the main annoying thing

yokotas13
12-25-2006, 04:53 AM
well yeah obviously if your wheels hit on shit then it wont work, haha, im talking shock travel.
hah i have like half an inch on all corners before i hit some shit.
My preload is so high on daily driving so i dont fuck shit up its rediculous. i have to raise my car nad reset preload every time i go to the track lol


also as far as PS cooler, can i just use another oil cooler for that?
Ill grab another galant oil cooler if i can

nlzmo400r
12-25-2006, 10:40 AM
hah i have like half an inch on all corners before i hit some shit.
My preload is so high on daily driving so i dont fuck shit up its rediculous. i have to raise my car nad reset preload every time i go to the track lol


also as far as PS cooler, can i just use another oil cooler for that?
Ill grab another galant oil cooler if i can

why a galant oil cooler? Also, are you inquiring because you're running large wheels/tires?

nlzmo400r
12-25-2006, 10:41 AM
ok, i dunno if im just a moron or what, but when I search for large/wide tires and wheel setups, I can't find ANYTHING. WTF, I know ive seen threads on here before concerning this same thing, just can't find them, thanks-

koukimonster139
12-25-2006, 11:11 AM
also as far as PS cooler, can i just use another oil cooler for that?
Ill grab another galant oil cooler if i can

i think you might run into some fitting problems maybe you can get some sort of adapter but i dont think power steering coolers are hella expensive either.

chmercer
12-25-2006, 11:38 AM
dunno why you would use some galant ghetto junk. lol

i use a setrab, i think its 5 3/4 x 11 3/4? somthing like that. 6an fittings. it was 50 bucks? also ive used a z32 oil cooler, it was almost free.

yokotoa, preloading your suspension just raises your car

turtl631
12-25-2006, 03:27 PM
Might not be worth it with how light your car is. Talk to def- he ran 275/40/17 rears, kumho MXs, and even those weren't getting heated up completely on his s13. It was just overkill so he went/is going to a smaller rear tire. You have to think about rolling resistance on road courses too, giant tires have more downsides than they do for autocross.

yokotas13
12-25-2006, 03:58 PM
why a galant oil cooler? Also, are you inquiring because you're running large wheels/tires?
i will be, im just waiting for the right reason. i have way too many around me that im selling not to

yokotas13
12-25-2006, 03:59 PM
dunno why you would use some galant ghetto junk. lol

i use a setrab, i think its 5 3/4 x 11 3/4? somthing like that. 6an fittings. it was 50 bucks? also ive used a z32 oil cooler, it was almost free.

yokotoa, preloading your suspension just raises your car
not with the 2 way adjustable coils.
i preload the springs to not allow as much suspension travel, and then compensate with the lowering hte actual shock body in the bracket

KA24DESOneThree
12-25-2006, 07:00 PM
and the rear 18x12 with 275 tire weighs less than stock 350z 17s with 225s so unsprung weight, while people like to bitch about it with calculator and physics book in hand, in reality is not really an issue. maybe if you want to set records then yeah whatever but if that was the case you need a new platform.

Regardless of what you have to tell yourself, unsprung weight is unsprung weight and comparing your combo to a heavy stock combo is lame. My 245/40R17 combined with 17x9 +15 TE37 weighs all of 44 pounds. My new front setup, arriving from Japan sometime in the next 46-76 days, will weigh one to two pounds less per wheel. You, on the other hand, had a tire that was two pounds heavier and farther from the hub. You also had a wheel with a huge barrel farther from the hub. Your center may have been light but the barrel was heavy as hell. How much did those wheels weigh? I know the Meister S2R in 18x9 was 22.3lbs. Let's say yours was extraordinarily light and weighed the same. 22.3 plus 29 equals 51.3lbs. That's 8.3lbs heavier than my setup, per wheel. That's hardly inconsequential.

Oh my God, I might have used a calculator (I didn't) to determine that. It must mean nothing!

It has been my experience, and I doubt I am the exception to the norm, that lighter wheels increase turn-in and suspension efficiency. I've had to dial back toe because turn-in was increased such a large extent.

nIsmo400r, do you find it necessary to run 18s? 17s are lighter, cheaper, and have less circumference in the barrel to better centralize rotating mass and decrease turn-in time, decrease braking distances, and decrease acceleration times.

This whole track bit is about getting faster, mostly through the improvement of your driving skills but also by upgrading the car to work more efficiently. Why not make it the absolute easiest on yourself and buy the lightest wheels that still fulfill your needs?

Oh, and don't forget that a wider wheel with a lower offset increases the leverage ratio of the suspension, possibly requiring an increase in spring rate to compensate.

chmercer
12-25-2006, 08:26 PM
not with the 2 way adjustable coils.
i preload the springs to not allow as much suspension travel, and then compensate with the lowering hte actual shock body in the bracket

yes, preloading your springs raises your car, it compresses the spring when its in the air because the spring dosent have anything to push off of. once you put it on the ground the spring just pushes the shock out / up. preloading only shifts weight, nothing else.

ka24sojhadsklfhkdlf

man you sure like to type a lot of inexperienced junk. i bet youve ran like 2 hpdes! wow! baller. whatever tires you have on your fantastical te37s, it dosent fucking matter, because they arent hoosiers. everyones wheels on this whole website are lighter than ccw classics, so fuck it

nlzmo400r
12-25-2006, 09:41 PM
Regardless of what you have to tell yourself, unsprung weight is unsprung weight and comparing your combo to a heavy stock combo is lame. My 245/40R17 combined with 17x9 +15 TE37 weighs all of 44 pounds. My new front setup, arriving from Japan sometime in the next 46-76 days, will weigh one to two pounds less per wheel. You, on the other hand, had a tire that was two pounds heavier and farther from the hub. You also had a wheel with a huge barrel farther from the hub. Your center may have been light but the barrel was heavy as hell. How much did those wheels weigh? I know the Meister S2R in 18x9 was 22.3lbs. Let's say yours was extraordinarily light and weighed the same. 22.3 plus 29 equals 51.3lbs. That's 8.3lbs heavier than my setup, per wheel. That's hardly inconsequential.

Oh my God, I might have used a calculator (I didn't) to determine that. It must mean nothing!

It has been my experience, and I doubt I am the exception to the norm, that lighter wheels increase turn-in and suspension efficiency. I've had to dial back toe because turn-in was increased such a large extent.

nIsmo400r, do you find it necessary to run 18s? 17s are lighter, cheaper, and have less circumference in the barrel to better centralize rotating mass and decrease turn-in time, decrease braking distances, and decrease acceleration times.

This whole track bit is about getting faster, mostly through the improvement of your driving skills but also by upgrading the car to work more efficiently. Why not make it the absolute easiest on yourself and buy the lightest wheels that still fulfill your needs?

Oh, and don't forget that a wider wheel with a lower offset increases the leverage ratio of the suspension, possibly requiring an increase in spring rate to compensate.

well right now I run 8.5 all around with 255/40/17s azenis. Im preparing to hold a little more power. With the tires I have now, I can slide in 2nd gear exits very easily. Im just looking for a little more stick in general. Ive ridden in a friend of mines car with 245/40 Rcomps, and wasnt taht impressed with the increased grip, it simply wasn't enough. Thats why I wanted to go larger.

Also, I picked the rpf1's because of thier lightweight. And I chose 18s because a 275/40/17 actually is taller (spreading the weight out farther) and heavier than a 285/30/18 of the same tire. Also, the 18inch wheel isn't MUCH heavier than the 17. And to run the 275/285 size tire, I want a 10 or 10.5inch wheel. The offset needed to make these fit would be '0', so the 30mm and 50mm overfenders are needed.

chmercer
12-25-2006, 09:49 PM
I chose 18s because a 275/40/17 actually is taller (spreading the weight out farther) and heavier than a 285/30/18 of the same tire

nah man, didnt you read ka24de's post, 17s are always lighter, less unsprung mass, smaller rotating mass, the only reason race cars dont run 13 inch wheels is because then they couldnt fit the brakes. 17s are RACE CAR CITY

vrooompssssht
12-25-2006, 11:35 PM
If your car is so low that you have 2inches before the tire hits the fender well (aka your new bumpstomps)

if you are running that much tire (which really is not necessary), and the proper spring rate for them, you probably wont HAVE two inches of travel :keke:

get an lsd, set up your suspension properly, and THEN go looking for wider tires, if needed.

no point in throwing on larger tires thinking it will make your car grip like mad and solve all your problems. :down:


here come the negative rep points:jerkit:

yokotas13
12-26-2006, 12:03 AM
yes, preloading your springs raises your car, it compresses the spring when its in the air because the spring dosent have anything to push off of. once you put it on the ground the spring just pushes the shock out / up. preloading only shifts weight, nothing else.

ka24sojhadsklfhkdlf

man you sure like to type a lot of inexperienced junk. i bet youve ran like 2 hpdes! wow! baller. whatever tires you have on your fantastical te37s, it dosent fucking matter, because they arent hoosiers. everyones wheels on this whole website are lighter than ccw classics, so fuck it
ok so your telling me, that if i put say 10 mm of preload on the spring, then lower the shock in the mount to compensate, it wont only be stiffer, but the same height (after measureing and adjusting hte shock body in the bracket)

if you say no, im calling bullshit.
http://www.redshiftdc.com/catalog/images/stanceevocoil.jpg
i have the same Type adjustable coils on my car.
im right, i know i am from experience

datboibrad
12-26-2006, 12:28 AM
this thread gives me a headache.

turtl631
12-26-2006, 12:29 AM
I can see the point of the 18s because after 255s, most sizes in 17s are targeted more towards muscle cars with huge rolling diameters. However, I don't think any setup is going to have much of a chance exiting a corner in 2nd gear, especially if you up the boost.

Maybe your friend's car with r comps wasn't set up very well, alignment off, messed up dampers, improper spring rates, etc, etc. I don't see why 255 r comps would be insufficient for a (i'm assuming) relatively light s13. Have you been in a 240 with the amount of grip you want? Maybe its time to step up to a better platform. Or read sr20forum.com in the se-r cup section, some good info in there about 240 track setups.

ryan hagen
12-26-2006, 12:49 AM
i run 275-40-17 ra-1's and i tore them up pretty bad my first track day, i took a couple laps to heat them up, i could spin them about as easy as a 615. kinda sucked cause i was hopin to get more grip but i got the same for more $

turtl631
12-26-2006, 01:14 AM
That's really weird that RA-1s had the same grip as 615s. Did you change your alignment for them? This thread makes me want to stay on street tires, everyone is disappointed with the grip of the harder r comps on these cars compared to street tires.

chmercer
12-26-2006, 01:21 AM
ok so your telling me, that if i put say 10 mm of preload on the spring, then lower the shock in the mount to compensate, it wont only be stiffer, but the same height (after measureing and adjusting hte shock body in the bracket)

if you say no, im calling bullshit.
stance
i have the same Type adjustable coils on my car.
im right, i know i am from experience

it will be exactly the same stiffness, and the same height, but your shock will be extended further at static load. preloading is used for corner balancing.

when you preload, the spring just pushes up on the upper mount, where the shock is attached, it dosent increase the spring rate. if you think it feels stiffer with preload the only explanation i can think of is you are probably like hitting bumps and then the strut is maxing out (backwards bottoming out) and suspension stops working so you think its stiff? or something? if you preload any more than needed for a proper corner balance / no slack in the spring then you are just fucking up your shock travel.

lol at pic of stance. yeah dude. double height adjustable coilovers. i know. everyone knows. do they even sell single height adjustable anymore.

vrooompssssht
12-26-2006, 01:33 AM
less than 2in of travel is no collars in the coilover low.


:confused: low has nothing to do with it

running that much tire he should probably be running somethign around 700f/600r springs.. if not more

they dont travel much.

blackflag_Rms13
12-26-2006, 02:14 AM
Talk to AceInHole, he's running a set up that's more or less on par with what you're considering. 18x10 +30 at all 4 corners, with a 19mm spacer up front and 285/30/R18 tires...

http://www.ulsaker.com/~cf/PSCC/content/bin/images/large/_DSC2242.jpg

yokotas13
12-26-2006, 03:08 AM
it will be exactly the same stiffness, and the same height, but your shock will be extended further at static load. preloading is used for corner balancing.

when you preload, the spring just pushes up on the upper mount, where the shock is attached, it dosent increase the spring rate. if you think it feels stiffer with preload the only explanation i can think of is you are probably like hitting bumps and then the strut is maxing out (backwards bottoming out) and suspension stops working so you think its stiff? or something? if you preload any more than needed for a proper corner balance / no slack in the spring then you are just fucking up your shock travel.

lol at pic of stance. yeah dude. double height adjustable coilovers. i know. everyone knows. do they even sell single height adjustable anymore.
yes they do still sell them, tein has a few nad jic i think.
I know im right, i dont need your approval for it. i know what keeps me from rubbing when im all the way down, and what happens when i dont do it.

but thanks anyways!

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 08:19 AM
if you are running that much tire (which really is not necessary), and the proper spring rate for them, you probably wont HAVE two inches of travel :keke:

get an lsd, set up your suspension properly, and THEN go looking for wider tires, if needed.

no point in throwing on larger tires thinking it will make your car grip like mad and solve all your problems. :down:


here come the negative rep points:jerkit:

You assume way too much. Where did you read that I didn't have an upgraded differential? Anyway, I currently run an s15 helical differential, and my suspension is set up 'PROPERLY'. Thanks for your input anyway.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 08:22 AM
I can see the point of the 18s because after 255s, most sizes in 17s are targeted more towards muscle cars with huge rolling diameters. However, I don't think any setup is going to have much of a chance exiting a corner in 2nd gear, especially if you up the boost.

Maybe your friend's car with r comps wasn't set up very well, alignment off, messed up dampers, improper spring rates, etc, etc. I don't see why 255 r comps would be insufficient for a (i'm assuming) relatively light s13. Have you been in a 240 with the amount of grip you want? Maybe its time to step up to a better platform. Or read sr20forum.com in the se-r cup section, some good info in there about 240 track setups.

see im sure the chassis has more grip left in it. Also, my friends car is set up beautifully spring rates are dead on, and the dampers are excellent (thanks for calling them dampers and not 'shocks'). And i thuoght a 255 or so would be all I would ever need for my power level too, but its just not. My s13 weighed in at 2450lb without driver. Just all in all, need a little more rubber. So back to my original question, with 30mm and 50mm overfendersm wuold a 10.5(+0) with 285/30 Rcomp fit ?

KA24DESOneThree
12-26-2006, 11:54 AM
First things first: All the competitive time attack S15s in J-land rock clutch-types. If you get any sort of lift going, the helical starts to lose effectiveness. I had an S15 helical and sold it before I installed it because I don't need to deal with corner exit oversteer. It's been replaced by an ATS carbon 1.5-way for equal smoothness with better overall traction.

boxy- We've done this dance a few times before. You're blowing ignorance out from the spittle surrounding your rabid lips. Before you pounce on someone, I'd recommend finding out whether or not they'd eat you alive. Also, CCW Classics in 17x9.5 weigh 19lbs in race trim and 21lbs in street trim.

nIsmo400r- Those tires are pretty squished on 8.5s, so you've got sidewall flex rearing its ugly head. They also have a reputation for not dealing with heat well. Have you considered running 245/40R17 BFG G-Force KDs, Advan AD07s or Bridgestone RE01-Rs? I know from experience that the Advans don't mind heat and the Bridgestones (which I have but won't have on the track until the 13) seem to be the same way. Both have very stiff sidewalls; you get what you pay for. Both have near-R-compound grip levels.

Unsprung weight seems to be neglected on these boards so often I've almost come to the point of ignoring it. However, I cannot and will not. The simple fact that we don't drive Ferraris doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about one of the fundamentals of suspension efficiency.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 12:11 PM
First things first: All the competitive time attack S15s in J-land rock clutch-types. If you get any sort of lift going, the helical starts to lose effectiveness. I had an S15 helical and sold it before I installed it because I don't need to deal with corner exit oversteer. It's been replaced by an ATS carbon 1.5-way for equal smoothness with better overall traction.

boxy- We've done this dance a few times before. You're blowing ignorance out from the spittle surrounding your rabid lips. Before you pounce on someone, I'd recommend finding out whether or not they'd eat you alive. Also, CCW Classics in 17x9.5 weigh 19lbs in race trim and 21lbs in street trim.

nIsmo400r- Those tires are pretty squished on 8.5s, so you've got sidewall flex rearing its ugly head. They also have a reputation for not dealing with heat well. Have you considered running 245/40R17 BFG G-Force KDs, Advan AD07s or Bridgestone RE01-Rs? I know from experience that the Advans don't mind heat and the Bridgestones (which I have but won't have on the track until the 13) seem to be the same way. Both have very stiff sidewalls; you get what you pay for. Both have near-R-compound grip levels.

Unsprung weight seems to be neglected on these boards so often I've almost come to the point of ignoring it. However, I cannot and will not. The simple fact that we don't drive Ferraris doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about one of the fundamentals of suspension efficiency.

wheel lift due to the s15 helical differential can be completley eliminated with suspension tuning (which Ive done) and corner balancing.

The 255s aren't squished on the 8.5s, its within the recommended wheel size from falken and is fine, not optimal, but fine. Sidewall flex is nearly unoticable in this setup (comparing to other setups ive had) Ive driven on KDs (didnt like the initial turn in AT ALL, made the vehicle feel very vague), also on the Bridgestones (which I didnt like because of their lack of grip/feedback at the 'edge'). I admit having not driven on the ad07s yet, but I would hate to invest $600 in the setup, and be let down again. So far, my current setup is what Ive enjoyed the most, however I need a bit more.

And who mentioned unsprung weight neglect? Unsprung weight is the reason for choosing such light wheels/suspension pieces as I have.

As far as oversteer at corner exit? I think you mean understeer. If the inside tire were to lift with a helical differential due to unbalanced suspension setup, then the lifted inside tire would cause understeer, not oversteer.

McRussellPants
12-26-2006, 12:16 PM
Unsprung weight seems to be neglected on these boards so often I've almost come to the point of ignoring it. However, I cannot and will not. The simple fact that we don't drive Ferraris doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about one of the fundamentals of suspension efficiency.

Hahaha, nah, the fact that we're all on the most poorly valved chinese coilovers money can buy does. Stance, KTS, Apexi, JIC, cusco, Tein, whatever. they're all the same and they're all only marginally better than k-sport and megan. whoo whoo!

Put some Koni/Moton/Penske/whatevers on your car and then bitch about the 1lb you saved from ricer wheels.

Yokota, damn dude "don't tell me Im wrong, because I've already done it". hahahah. Preloading doesn't make your suspension stiffer, it makes it FEEL stiffer because your ramming the coil into the droop stop more. If you preload your coilover and move the lower collar to compensate. YOU WILL BE NO HIGHER AND NO LOWER AND YOUR SUSPENSION WON'T BE STIFFER. the only person on this site to lower his car with preload is D-Money, and he runs 2in of preload, which is stupid.

welcome to sus 101.

duh, helicals suck, real racecars run spools, heavily locked 2way clutch diffs or (and I don't know why I even mention this since it just gives people hope for shitty nissan VLSD which is retarded) electronically controlled viscous diffs.


Ugh whatever.

chmercer
12-26-2006, 12:49 PM
yes they do still sell them, tein has a few nad jic i think.
I know im right, i dont need your approval for it. i know what keeps me from rubbing when im all the way down, and what happens when i dont do it.

but thanks anyways!

um, you obviously do not, if you think 10mm of preload is magically changing your springrate. to change the spring rate, you need to get new springs.

on an single height adjustable coilover, when you preload the spring, the car raises up. you would have to be retarded to argue this. correct?

on a double height adjustable coilover, they operate exactly the same way. when you preload the spring the car raises up. the only difference is that you can move the mounting point of the strut, which you cannot do with single height adjustable coilovers

seriously this is like kiddie shit. if you dont understand it then i dont know what else to say.

chmercer
12-26-2006, 12:52 PM
Also, CCW Classics in 17x9.5 weigh 19lbs in race trim and 21lbs in street trim.

err, that was my point, they fucking suck shit, my 18x10s weigh 21 pounds and 18x12s weigh like 23

my point was that you see ccws all over the fucking place on "RACE CARS", and they weigh more than a box of bricks

Unsprung weight seems to be neglected on these boards so often I've almost come to the point of ignoring it. However, I cannot and will not. The simple fact that we don't drive Ferraris doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about one of the fundamentals of suspension efficiency.

a saturn on 215 hoosiers pulls more Gs than every car on this board. if you care so much about fucking unsprung weight get some nylon belted r compounds. the reason i have such a problem with people bitching about "your wheels are 2 pounds heavier than they could be" is that nobody on here "races" on legit equipment so the point is completly moot. unsprung weight wow. a 255/somthing 17 rt615 tire weighs like fucking 28 pounds. t1s weighs like 29-30 pounds. so theres your precious unsprung weight shitting its pants all over the floor. wow people race on thoes all the fucking time and the cars still go fast.

let me break it down for your obviously uneducated ass -

im using enkei nt03+ms and rt615 for an example here, insert your favorite 240sx pseudo racecar wheel and tire combo, you know, like maybe some gramlights 57pro with maybe some nice kumho MX, something nice and sporty. something that makes you "performance oriented".
17x9.5 weight - 20.1
18x9.5 weight - 19.4

275/40/17 rt615 weight - 28.8
275/35/18 rt615 weight - 28.6

hurrr 18s are lighter. do this with any wheel and tire setup on the planet. shits always the same. lower profile, less sidewall flex, lighter. only drawback is higher cost. sorry if you cant pay to play.

hmm what say we check on some hoosiers maybe
275/40/17 r6 weight - 23
275/35/18 r6 weight - 23

whoops same shit.

speaking of which, hoosiers save you 6 pounds of the dreaded unsprung mass at each corner. maybe you should like, get real racing parts, instead of trying to sand the paint finish off your FNs or whatever.

will you shut the fuck up now?

KA24DESOneThree
12-26-2006, 01:29 PM
err, that was my point, they fucking suck shit, my 18x10s weigh 21 pounds and 18x12s weigh like 23

my point was that you see ccws all over the fucking place on "RACE CARS", and they weigh more than a box of bricks

So... why follow their lead? You see CE28Ns and other forged, very lightweight wheels on Japanese race and time attack cars. Just because some race teams decide to run heavy wheels doesn't make it right.

I acknowledge the fact that the faster driver will obviously overcome any negatives of running heavier wheels. However, he'd be even faster with light wheels, with less wear and tear on his suspension.

Light wheels increase the effectiveness of the crap coilovers most of us run on. I realize my coilovers are crap; they're the weak spot in my suspension right now. However, the lighter my unsprung weight, the more use I get out of their limited effectiveness.

Get out of the thread, Viceroy crew. You know fitment, not cornering speeds. You've input your wheel fitment expertise, now you're just annoying.

Why is it that any thread in which wheel weights is brought up you two come in guns blazing, filling the heads of the easily impressed with downright idiocy resulting in mediocrity? There is absolutely no downside to buying the lightest wheels one can afford unless it has a propensity toward weakness. Oh right, it won't have a "baller" lip on it. So sorry. Seriously, what the hell?

nIsmo400r, have you ever checked your tire temps with a pyrometer?

Edit to respond to chmercer's edit:
Totally, lemme rock R-comps on my street/track car. Sounds like fun. My car is dual-purpose and I'm going to get the most out of it on the track while still making it marginally streetable. In fact, I run tires that you yourself said "probably kick ass."

So if the tire weighs more, who cares about wheel weights? Are you really that stupid? If a big tire weighs a lot, doesn't it make MORE sense to rock lower wheel weights to lower unsprung and rotational weight?

Actually, my setup is 17x9 +15 CE28Ns front with 17x9 +15 TE37s out back, once the CEs come in and I figure out how to run my rear brake setup with the Nams lower control arms. The CEs probably weigh a good pound to pound and a half less than the TEs, so it's probably 16lbs front and a measured 17lbs rear. Tires are wide as usable 245/40R17, at 27 pounds each.

Why are you saying I can't pay to play when I buy my wheels new and you buy used (i.e. your new Equips)? Don't you rock used tires, Mr. Pay-to-Play? Aren't you rocking an eBay intercooler and bodykit, including your copy Kouki wing? Didn't you previously cover your car in vinyl because it was cheap? What about your blue grounding kit? Assbag, don't even talk to me about paying to play.

McRussellPants
12-26-2006, 01:36 PM
clean, you run light wheels and shitty tires because it makes you a JDM time attack driver.


thats all I needed to know.

chmercer
12-26-2006, 01:50 PM
Why is it that any thread in which wheel weights is brought up you two come in guns blazing, filling the heads of the easily impressed with downright idiocy resulting in mediocrity? There is absolutely no downside to buying the lightest wheels one can afford unless it has a propensity toward weakness. Oh right, it won't have a "baller" lip on it. So sorry. Seriously, what the hell?

AGAIN.

a saturn with 215 hoosiers will pull more gs than anything else on this board

crying about wheel weight when you have street tires is like trying to do weight reduction on a stock caddilac by getting a metal file on the lugnuts.

yokotas13
12-26-2006, 01:56 PM
um, you obviously do not, if you think 10mm of preload is magically changing your springrate. to change the spring rate, you need to get new springs.

on an single height adjustable coilover, when you preload the spring, the car raises up. you would have to be retarded to argue this. correct?

on a double height adjustable coilover, they operate exactly the same way. when you preload the spring the car raises up. the only difference is that you can move the mounting point of the strut, which you cannot do with single height adjustable coilovers

seriously this is like kiddie shit. if you dont understand it then i dont know what else to say.
bwahahah, my bad i forgot to add that i have progressive springs. i was wondering wtf i was missing.
I ordered some springs with the maximum progressie rate at 10/8 for the winter. I also have a set of regular and 8/6s
by B, shoulda pointed that out lolz
oh yeah, and if you add enough preload it will limit the travel of your suspension, purelly becuase it will compress the spring into itself (acting like a bump stop) adn preventing further compression.

blackflag_Rms13
12-26-2006, 01:59 PM
Get out of the thread, Viceroy crew. You know fitment, not cornering speeds. You've input your wheel fitment expertise, now you're just annoying.
Quit your ethuggery, the point of this thread, as far as I see it, is whether or not nlzmo400r can fit 18x10(.5)'s wrapped in 285/30's under overfenders on an s13. Let's get back on topic :ugh:

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 05:29 PM
Quit your ethuggery, the point of this thread, as far as I see it, is whether or not nlzmo400r can fit 18x10(.5)'s wrapped in 285/30's under overfenders on an s13. Let's get back on topic :ugh:

atleast someone here is paying attention. Im so tired of hearing Cmercer tell everyone that their 240 isn't a race car, no shit. But just because we dont use inboard brakes, quick ratio steering racks and 13k rpm v10 engines doesn't mean we can't enjoy making our cars more track worthy and fun. Oh, and you slap 215hoosiers on a saturn, go have fun, but it still won't pull more Gforces than a properly setup 240 on victoracers or something.

Anyway, Does anyone have any pictures of an s13 with a similar setup to what im looking for? The picture of hte s14 is great, but Im not too sure how much more room s14s have (fender/wheel/tire) than s13s. Would my s13 with 30mm fronts and 50mm rear overfenders give me comparable room to stock s14s?

smelly240
12-26-2006, 05:30 PM
WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU ON TIRES, chmercer... preloading does so make hte car stiffer... when compressed the springs is stiffer - think valvesprings... i agree with u 99% of the time chmercer - but this time (preload) you're mistaken.

I have been racing cars for almost 20 years now and i'm guaranteeing you that preload has an affect on stiffness. progressive springs or not.

when you compress a spring 1 inch with preload - the rate that was once say 444lb/in (similar to 8kg/mm) will be significantly higher now - when at free length it took 444lbs to move it that one inch - now its gonna take more - maybe 480 or so. Also - the susp wont travel at all until its weight upon it exceed that 444lbs.

this also comes into play with those of you that have reg spring/struts - they are 129lb/in at free play - but compressed into their strut held environment most springs are more like 215 or 220lbs/in.

if ur stressing about chmercer bein nice tou you nizmo - you're prolly on hte wrong board.

ans so you know - s14's have more room, but you dont need 285 tires - get something nice but you dont need 285s on ur .6bar, champ.

if you're spinnin em comin outta corners - ill give you the advice my dad gave me the first time i raced in the rain (i was 12 btw) - pretend theres a egg under the gas pedal - u dont wanna break it. bc if ur breakin em loose (255s) theres a good chance that you're breakin the egg, and the problem can be looked at between the seat and the steering wheel. (fucked up thing - he never told me to think there was a egg under the brake - and i spun out in turn one - got back in it and ended up 3rd, but wow was it crazy - 18 9-12 yr olds racing in hte rain = spinning out smashing stuff, in the grass, sand, fun good stuff...)

jmauld
12-26-2006, 06:30 PM
atleast someone here is paying attention. Im so tired of hearing Cmercer tell everyone that their 240 isn't a race car, no shit. But just because we dont use inboard brakes, quick ratio steering racks and 13k rpm v10 engines doesn't mean we can't enjoy making our cars more track worthy and fun. Oh, and you slap 215hoosiers on a saturn, go have fun, but it still won't pull more Gforces than a properly setup 240 on victoracers or something.

Anyway, Does anyone have any pictures of an s13 with a similar setup to what im looking for? The picture of hte s14 is great, but Im not too sure how much more room s14s have (fender/wheel/tire) than s13s. Would my s13 with 30mm fronts and 50mm rear overfenders give me comparable room to stock s14s?


I know you're asking specifically about the 285/30/18, but Hoosier is supposedly releasing a 275/35/15 in the spring of 2007. Might be a little bit easier to fit on a S13?

jmauld
12-26-2006, 06:31 PM
I have been racing cars for almost 20 years now and i'm guaranteeing you that preload has an affect on stiffness. progressive springs or not.



It only makes a difference if you preload it more than the corner weight of the car. Otherwise, you're wasting your time. Helper springs or not.

McRussellPants
12-26-2006, 06:35 PM
WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU ON TIRES, chmercer... preloading does so make hte car stiffer... when compressed the springs is stiffer - think valvesprings... i agree with u 99% of the time chmercer - but this time (preload) you're mistaken.

I have been racing cars for almost 20 years now and i'm guaranteeing you that preload has an affect on stiffness. progressive springs or not.

when you compress a spring 1 inch with preload - the rate that was once say 444lb/in (similar to 8kg/mm) will be significantly higher now - when at free length it took 444lbs to move it that one inch - now its gonna take more - maybe 480 or so. Also - the susp wont travel at all until its weight upon it exceed that 444lbs.


yeah, they're stiffer, marginally, because of manufacturing flaws.

The main reason Preload feels stiffer is because your running the shock closer to the droop stop.

only way preload can make your suspension more than marginally stiffer on a 100% linear spring, is if you preload so much that the car has to load the suspension more than static to compress the shock, which would probably be around an inch and a half (don't care enough so didn't do the math)

and what are you talking about changing spring rate? they're called linear for a reason, if it was made perfect, it would take up 8kgmm at 8in of height and 8kg at 6in of height.

The reason manufacturers tell you to preload, is because you can't make a spring 100% linear due to manufacturing issues. when you preload you're compressing the weakest parts of the spring, basically giving you a more linear spring rate.meaning instead of being average 7.6kgmm you'll get closer to having an exact 8kg/mm and it will stay 8kg/mm untill the spring gets bound or ramps UP in rate due to manufacturing issues. so yes there is an increase in rate, but if your springs are worth a shit it won't be much.

McRussellPants
12-26-2006, 06:39 PM
PS, its egg between your foot and the gas pedal, not under it.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 06:48 PM
I know you're asking specifically about the 285/30/18, but Hoosier is supposedly releasing a 275/35/15 in the spring of 2007. Might be a little bit easier to fit on a S13?

thanks for the heads up, but with the 275/35 being taller than a 285/30 I doubt itd be easier to fit.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 06:51 PM
WHILE I AGREE WITH YOU ON TIRES, chmercer... preloading does so make hte car stiffer... when compressed the springs is stiffer - think valvesprings... i agree with u 99% of the time chmercer - but this time (preload) you're mistaken.

I have been racing cars for almost 20 years now and i'm guaranteeing you that preload has an affect on stiffness. progressive springs or not.

when you compress a spring 1 inch with preload - the rate that was once say 444lb/in (similar to 8kg/mm) will be significantly higher now - when at free length it took 444lbs to move it that one inch - now its gonna take more - maybe 480 or so. Also - the susp wont travel at all until its weight upon it exceed that 444lbs.

this also comes into play with those of you that have reg spring/struts - they are 129lb/in at free play - but compressed into their strut held environment most springs are more like 215 or 220lbs/in.

if ur stressing about chmercer bein nice tou you nizmo - you're prolly on hte wrong board.

ans so you know - s14's have more room, but you dont need 285 tires - get something nice but you dont need 285s on ur .6bar, champ.

if you're spinnin em comin outta corners - ill give you the advice my dad gave me the first time i raced in the rain (i was 12 btw) - pretend theres a egg under the gas pedal - u dont wanna break it. bc if ur breakin em loose (255s) theres a good chance that you're breakin the egg, and the problem can be looked at between the seat and the steering wheel. (fucked up thing - he never told me to think there was a egg under the brake - and i spun out in turn one - got back in it and ended up 3rd, but wow was it crazy - 18 9-12 yr olds racing in hte rain = spinning out smashing stuff, in the grass, sand, fun good stuff...)

Your egg analogy is a good one, but I KNOW I NEED MORE GRIP, im not imagining my loss of traction. Sure I could come out of the corner more light footed (i.e SLOWER) but time will be lost.

vrooompssssht
12-26-2006, 07:37 PM
Your egg analogy is a good one, but I KNOW I NEED MORE GRIP, im not imagining my loss of traction. Sure I could come out of the corner more light footed (i.e SLOWER) but time will be lost.


get a real lsd

how much did that s15 helical cost you?

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 07:52 PM
get a real lsd

how much did that s15 helical cost you?

what do you mean a 'real lsd'. There is nothing wrong with my differential at all, and IT is certainly causing my loss of traction, lack of tire grip IS.

I spent about $500 on my hlsd setup

jmauld
12-26-2006, 07:57 PM
thanks for the heads up, but with the 275/35 being taller than a 285/30 I doubt itd be easier to fit.


Notice the rim size. the 275/35 is for a 15" rim! It's about 2" shorter than the stock S14 tire diameter.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 08:06 PM
Notice the rim size. the 275/35 is for a 15" rim! It's about 2" shorter than the stock S14 tire diameter.

sorry didnt even notice the wheel size. I can't run anything smaller in diameter than a 17" wheel because of my brake setup. Unless I go inboard brakes :eek: :aw:

sideview_180sx
12-26-2006, 08:15 PM
dood my friend runs the now defunct SRX class. He runs 17x9s on 255/40 RA-1s on his s13 and he is fine. Sasha runs in a class up in canada. he will be running 17x9.5s upfront and 18x10.5s in the back. but is using an s14 chassis. if you have some 17x9s or 9.5s you should be able to fit 275width rubber. I've always been told to always want to stuff as much rubber as you can on a rim. you should rethink the 18s because you are adding in more things to worry about at each race. good thinking on the s15 diff, thats the best cost effective other then a real quaife(which were never meant to drift with). Look up on the ka-t forum. one of the guys from socal went out to the nasa nationals at mid-ohio. he is running fast and he could help you out some with possible tire sizes and setups. this forum really isn't prime for asking for roadracing when so few run it.

BTW fender pulling is always better then overfenders in racing. My impression is that you would be going with the typical FG complete fender replacement over the z-style flares. the z-style flares would be prime if you go with them. The reason for my opinion of that with overfenders, is the cost of replacing those.

here's a pic of my friends SRX 240 competing in the time attack. http://www.ziptied.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10904/061108ssta_momentumgt021.jpg

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 08:26 PM
dood my friend runs the now defunct SRX class. He runs 17x9s on 255/30 RA-1s on his s13 and he is fine. Sasha runs in a class up in canada. he will be running 17x9.5s upfront and 18x10.5s in the back. but is using an s14 chassis. dood you shouldn't need that much rubber. aceinhole autoX so his tire setup is much different for a specific reason. if you have some 17x9s or 9.5s you should be able to fit 275width rubber. if you really are roadracing then you should be at the smallest 275/285 width. you always wanny stuff as much rubber as you can on a rim. you should rethink the 18s because you are adding in more things to worry about at each race. good thinking on the s15 diff, thats the best cost effective other then a real quaife(which were never meant to drift with). Look up on the ka-t forum. one of the guys from socal cal went out to the nasa nationals at mid-ohio. he is running fast and he could help you out some with possible tire choices and setups.this forum really isn't prime for asking for roadracing when so few run it. check some of the bimmer forums, because you can apply the same fitment essentially to your car.

BTW fender pulling is always better then overfenders in racing.

I have NO idea what you just said. Yes Im really road racing, and yes thats why I want larger rubber. How am I adding in more things to worry about with 18s?? And how is fender pulling better than overfenders? Id like to hear you explanation if you've got a minute, thanks

- Rob

smelly240
12-26-2006, 08:58 PM
yokotas13 - i just did some math dude - and you'd have to compress the spring over an inch to increase the springrate with preload, dude -- dont do that anymore

other guy... just buy whatever tires you want - none of us really cares that much to argue about it with you. It's your money - go buy stuff and track it. id rather have welded than helical btw :( i dont like how they feel.

PS, its egg between your foot and the gas pedal, not under it.


lol - my ole man's a bit country - im lucky he didnt tell me to pretend there were titties under the pedal - not to hurt em :P
he grew up in central pennsylvania - i forgive him

vrooompssssht
12-26-2006, 09:53 PM
what do you mean a 'real lsd'. There is nothing wrong with my differential at all, and IT is certainly causing my loss of traction, lack of tire grip IS.

I spent about $500 on my hlsd setup


why the hell would you spend $500 on an OEM helical? You were more than half way to a gear or clutch type lsd that would send more power to the wheel with traction

and your car is not losing traction due to ONLY having 255s, unless you are pushing 400wheel, which you arent on 0.6 bar

work on other areas of the car first

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 10:14 PM
why the hell would you spend $500 on an OEM helical? You were more than half way to a gear or clutch type lsd that would send more power to the wheel with traction

and your car is not losing traction due to ONLY having 255s, unless you are pushing 400wheel, which you arent on 0.6 bar

work on other areas of the car first

first off, 'gear' types, are helical or mechanical types, dumbass. And the 'LSD' im using sends more power to the wheel with traction, thats the point of my 'torque biasing differential'..... dumbass. You obviously have no idea wtf is going on. Also, my car isn't on .6bar anymore, I just haven't updated. Last time I dyno'd I was at 371whp 375tq on 16lbs.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 10:16 PM
yokotas13 - i just did some math dude - and you'd have to compress the spring over an inch to increase the springrate with preload, dude -- dont do that anymore

other guy... just buy whatever tires you want - none of us really cares that much to argue about it with you. It's your money - go buy stuff and track it. id rather have welded than helical btw :( i dont like how they feel.




lol - my ole man's a bit country - im lucky he didnt tell me to pretend there were titties under the pedal - not to hurt em :P
he grew up in central pennsylvania - i forgive him

if youd prefer a welded differential to a helical type for roadracing, or anything other than drifting, then you have no idea how to drive a vehicle. The welded differential obviously keeps wheels going the same speed the entire time, causing understeer at both corner entry and exit, unless of course you power over and slide it out (i.e scrub speed off)

KA24DESOneThree
12-26-2006, 10:20 PM
Oh, and you slap 215hoosiers on a saturn, go have fun, but it still won't pull more Gforces than a properly setup 240 on victoracers or something.

Anyway, Does anyone have any pictures of an s13 with a similar setup to what im looking for?

If chmercer brings the Saturn (provided it's not a Sky), I'll bring the Hoosiers and I'll outgrip the thing on my RE01-Rs. Tires are a big part of the equation, but they can only get so far.

I've been trying to find the pics of the black coupe at an autocross running 275/40R17s all around. If I remember correctly, he had some issues with them fitting, i.e. he was running stock bodywork and they stuck out by a couple inches.

However, here is a hatch with 275/40R17s under some 30mm bolt-on flares:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/imag/DSC06714.jpg

From:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/240sx4.html

I hope that will be of some help.

nlzmo400r
12-26-2006, 10:27 PM
If chmercer brings the Saturn (provided it's not a Sky), I'll bring the Hoosiers and I'll outgrip the thing on my RE01-Rs. Tires are a big part of the equation, but they can only get so far.

I've been trying to find the pics of the black coupe at an autocross running 275/40R17s all around. If I remember correctly, he had some issues with them fitting, i.e. he was running stock bodywork and they stuck out by a couple inches.

However, here is a hatch with 275/40R17s under some 30mm bolt-on flares:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/imag/DSC06714.jpg

From:
http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/240sx4.html

I hope that will be of some help.

Im very curious as to whay offset those wheels are. They would have to be about a (+5) or so to clear the front dampers. So im assuming those are the +12s with a 7mm or so spacer front and rear

Maximamike
12-26-2006, 10:38 PM
I've been trying to find the pics of the black coupe at an autocross running 275/40R17s all around. If I remember correctly, he had some issues with them fitting, i.e. he was running stock bodywork and they stuck out by a couple inches.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/rs4race/rearend.jpg

275's on a 10" wheel. Doesn't look like it sticks out that much. I PM'd him for more info.

vrooompssssht
12-26-2006, 10:40 PM
first off, 'gear' types, are helical or mechanical types, dumbass. And the 'LSD' im using sends more power to the wheel with traction, thats the point of my 'torque biasing differential'..... dumbass. You obviously have no idea wtf is going on. Also, my car isn't on .6bar anymore, I just haven't updated. Last time I dyno'd I was at 371whp 375tq on 16lbs.


sorry, i never read up on the "helical" oem lsds, not even worth purchasing one to me, so i did not know what type they are.

i meant more power than your s15 lsd sends

what is your suspension setup like? spring rates and sway bars?

McRussellPants
12-26-2006, 11:24 PM
if youd prefer a welded differential to a helical type for roadracing, or anything other than drifting, then you have no idea how to drive a vehicle. The welded differential obviously keeps wheels going the same speed the entire time, causing understeer at both corner entry and exit, unless of course you power over and slide it out (i.e scrub speed off)

Thats funny, because I'm sure JGTC cars run spools in the dry and 99% of other sanctioning bodys that don't allow Electronically controlled VLSDs use 2-ways set up to be nearly 100% locked.

Hell, alot of GT Porsches run spools as well.

Consistancy >>>>>>>>>>> Mild Entry understeer thats easily tuned out.

Racecar Engineering had an artical about how worthless Helicals are. You should pick it up. They're too inconsistant to be a good choice for any thing other than old man willows 7/10ths windy road mobile.

ryan hagen
12-26-2006, 11:46 PM
if you're spinnin em comin outta corners - ill give you the advice my dad gave me the first time i raced in the rain (i was 12 btw) - pretend theres a egg under the gas pedal - u dont wanna break it. bc if ur breakin em loose (255s) theres a good chance that you're breakin the egg, and the problem can be looked at between the seat and the steering wheel. (fucked up thing - he never told me to think there was a egg under the brake - and i spun out in turn one - got back in it and ended up 3rd, but wow was it crazy - 18 9-12 yr olds racing in hte rain = spinning out smashing stuff, in the grass, sand, fun good stuff...)


my problem is turbo power, when the boost hits, the boost burnanates tires the ra-1's in a slide i think are more predictable than the 615's they tended to all of sudden grab again making it a ruff transition while the ra-1 were really smooth. but they booth still broke traction about the same.

KA24DESOneThree
12-27-2006, 12:07 AM
275's on a 10" wheel. Doesn't look like it sticks out that much. I PM'd him for more info.

That's not the car. I was talking more about the front fitment, also. Thanks, though, for helping with the search.

It was a stock-looking black car with gold pinstriping, I believe. I think he was running a forged wheel with R-comps. There might have been a bridge abutment in the background.

n1smo400r, I'd recommend shooting an e-mail toward PDM. I'm sure they can clue you in as to the offset.

McRusselPants- You know what else is funny? JGTC cars are purpose-built race cars and share very little with street cars. They're also running what, thirteen inches of slick up front and like fifteen inches out back?

The 935 ran a spool, but it also had turbo lag like you wouldn't believe coupled with '70s suspension and tire technology.

chmercer
12-27-2006, 01:45 AM
McRusselPants- You know what else is funny? JGTC cars are purpose-built race cars and share very little with street cars. They're also running what, thirteen inches of slick up front and like fifteen inches out back?

but, shouldnt we be striving to make the most out of our street setups? or.. . what?

smelly240
12-27-2006, 04:11 AM
if youd prefer a welded differential to a helical type for roadracing, or anything other than drifting, then you have no idea how to drive a vehicle. The welded differential obviously keeps wheels going the same speed the entire time, causing understeer at both corner entry and exit, unless of course you power over and slide it out (i.e scrub speed off)


you do realize that the JGTC cars use spools then... The Audi R8 uses a 2 way clutch type that has something in the vacinity of 1800lbs of turning force (almost a spool) - u should see them try to roll those things around in hte pits.


I raced before you were born, btw (january 3'rd will be 20 yrs since i got my 1st qurater midget) - Helical LSD's arent the best for a high power RWD setup - its a known fact (they used it in the Bentley lemans car bc the car wouldnt steer with the disc type they even tried open diffs like whats in hte elise - its a bandaid bc the car's flawed by design with parts of the chassis neglected in hopes to lowe rhte cars CofG).

The JGTC cars with those big slicks would have way more scrub with them sticky tires and a spool - so looks like your comment contradicts itself KA24desonethree. Anyway, nizmo... you bring your 285's and your helical and we'll have at it with my smaller tires and i'll even put a welded diff back in hte car. The thing about a HLSD is - it NEEDS to have traction on one tire to work... or it acts silly.

charlie and superpants are gonna get on ya dude... and you're starting to seem like a nub. I smell fire...

jmauld
12-27-2006, 04:39 AM
Why do you guys constantly bring up the JGTC cars, like they are the god's gift to racers? What do you really know about their setups. Real racers here in the US use Quaiffe LSDs and love them.

For whoever referenced the Lotus, be sure to check out the LSD that they offer for their cars. Yep, it's a Torsen...

The problem that 240sx owners have with the Helical diffs is that they have chosen poor parts to setup their cars. If you're lifting the inside rear tire, than you have introduced a problem with your choice of suspension components. Don't blame that on the LSD.

chmercer
12-27-2006, 11:51 AM
um, ok, how about like tons of scca cars run heavy locking 2 ways. is that a better example than jgtc cars for some reason? i dont know why it would be.

helical diffs never wear out

because they dont work

ps smelly240 do jgtc cars really have that much scrub, seems like they wuold just run super high offset and really long control arms.

McRussellPants
12-27-2006, 12:16 PM
Why do you guys constantly bring up the JGTC cars, like they are the god's gift to racers? What do you really know about their setups. Real racers here in the US use Quaiffe LSDs and love them.

For whoever referenced the Lotus, be sure to check out the LSD that they offer for their cars. Yep, it's a Torsen

The GT Porsches I was refering to useing a spool race in US series if that helps you sleep a night.

Racecar Engineering "[Clutch diffs will not wear as quickly and have more tuning options compared to HLSDs]" paraphrased, but its in there V16N5.

Point in fact, your using a diff built for old man willow's 200whp Silvia on 205 tires. Not gonna work fresh on a 285/35 Tire'd 10kg sprung car.

England's GT2 350Z crew bragged about the only driveline modification being a clutch and Nismo GT-Pro LSD.

"Helical for Racing, Clutch for Drifting" is just some stupid quip people jerk themselves off with to pretend they know anything about how cars work.

turtl631
12-27-2006, 12:31 PM
Man, I love how far off the original topic this has gone. Honestly nlzmo400r, if you really want to do this, you might just have to buy some wheels and make the car fit them. FG overfenders dont really add that much room, especially up front, and you would probably be better off with either pulled stockers or arch flares. I don't think that huge r comps are going to give you significantly better corner exit grip with 375 whp. It might just come down to not crushing the titty. And maybe PM some guys like racingSWH to see how they're doing (SRX cup guys).

smelly240
12-27-2006, 12:55 PM
LOL @ crushing the titties!!!! im so sending my dad a copy of this thread - i swear he'll post it on one of his old man dirt track forums or somewhere.

If anyone wants to get their kids into racing - i got a million things you can tell a kid to help them learn. my mom made little songs and stuff for my sisters, and so we wouldnt be afraid to hit curbing on road courses; when it was nice out we rode to the track in the back of teh truck - and our parents would go off the edge of the road and hit the rumblies. I miss bein a lil kid :(

seriously nizmo - the problem with u exiting th corner is between the seat and the steering wheel.


Does anyone even make a spool an R200 diff?

KA24DESOneThree
12-27-2006, 02:28 PM
ps smelly240 do jgtc cars really have that much scrub, seems like they wuold just run super high offset and really long control arms.

Not scrub radius, but tire scrub from having to drag one tire around the corners.

articdragon192
12-27-2006, 02:52 PM
Does anyone even make a spool an R200 diff?

Your local welder.

Wiisass
12-27-2006, 04:24 PM
Wow, I was going to try and get involved in this, but this thread is all over the place. I'll give it a shot anyway.

Preloading a linear spring does not change the rate. You still have to input the same force to move it one inch no matter if it's at its free length or compressed an inch already. Of course this depends on the quality of the spring. A good truly linear spring will behave this way. A cheap linear spring probably will not. And what's more important than spring rate is the linearity of the installation ratio anyway. And than can be either linear, rising rate or falling rate. But that's in the suspension geometry and a little harder to adjust without doing some real work.

Smelly, what calcs are you doing to show a change in spring? I'm just curious as to why every guy with a roundy-round dirt racing back ground seems to think that it increases the spring rate. The only way it could would be based off of suspension geometry and installation ratio as I previously mentioned and possibly positioning the suspension in a different part of the curve. But let me know, please.

About fitting the tires, you might just have to try and do it. I'm planning on running some stupid sized rubber. I am thinking about running a 315 on an 11.5 in the back and a 275 or 295 on 10.5 in the front. It's probably overkill but if I'm not heating them up then I'll mess around with size or compound. But I will be running hoosiers for hill climb, road race stuff. We'll see how it works out, if tire temps are too low, I'll change, but I would rather do the work to make sure the biggest tires I want to run fit rather than fit a smaller tire and have to mess with the bodywork more to get something bigger on there. And for all the talk of unspring weight, my wheels both weigh about 17.5lbs each. Not too bad for the size. I'll probably get a set of RPF1's in 18x10.5 later on and those are only around 19lbs and then run a 285 or 305 on them and see how they do.

Ideally, I would like to get a tire temp measuring setup on my car but it's a little more money than I can spend right now and would eat up all the analog inputs on the data acq. I would be using IR temp sensors and I know some people will say that they won't tell you the actual temperature of the core, which is the important part, you will be able to get a lot of valuable information out of it and it will all be real time and can be compared with acceleration and shock travel and I will be able to have a lot of fun analyzing data for a few days after the race, but it would be pretty awesome.

Unsprung weight is an issue, but some weight in needed. I mean if you're that concerned with it, then run the smallest brakes you can get away with, and do other stuff like that. Damper valving is part of the issue, but heavier unsprung mass will actually work better with the damper than lighter. Most of the dyno plots I've seen have too stiff of a compression curve and with a heavier mass at the bottom the damping ratio will go down.

So if you're getting this serious then custom valved dampers are the way to go. There's no point trying to do all this work and then going with a crappy off the shelf setup. And anyone that claims to revalve the dampers and doesn't give you a real CVP dyno plot didn't do shit. Be careful of that. I've seen the insides of what people say are some of the better JDM dampers and they look like the insides of cheap mountain bike shocks.

Diffs are an issue, it depends on how the car is setup. A good torsen based diff can be a good thing but it depends on the diff and like Jmauld said it also depends on the suspension. If you're lifting a wheel, you need to figure out why that is happening before throwing away the diff because of it. I personally like clutch-type diffs and will be running that next season, but there are many successful people running good torsen diffs in racing. It all depends on how the diff is setup. But for what's available and in the same price range a good clutch-type is the way to go for these cars. I've used both types and although very different applications, I never had any problems with the torsen diff, but then again, the suspension was well sorted and we set the car up the right way everytime we drove it. And it was a real torsen diff and not some OE crap.

Well that's just my input from what I remember from the last 3 pages.

jmauld
12-28-2006, 11:30 AM
The GT Porsches I was refering to useing a spool race in US series if that helps you sleep a night.

Racecar Engineering "[Clutch diffs will not wear as quickly and have more tuning options compared to HLSDs]" paraphrased, but its in there V16N5.

Point in fact, your using a diff built for old man willow's 200whp Silvia on 205 tires. Not gonna work fresh on a 285/35 Tire'd 10kg sprung car.

England's GT2 350Z crew bragged about the only driveline modification being a clutch and Nismo GT-Pro LSD.

"Helical for Racing, Clutch for Drifting" is just some stupid quip people jerk themselves off with to pretend they know anything about how cars work.

Not trying to be a smartass, but if you're trying to make a point in that post, please try to make it coherent.

Also, take note, that I am not bashing the clutch diffs. I'm saying that the argument based on what so and so is using, is a weak argument. Clutch diffs are wonderful things! They work great, they're cheap and they do a great job of covering up mistakes that the majority of people make with their suspension setup.

My guess is that you've never driven a car with a properly working suspension and torsen?

jzr
12-28-2006, 12:02 PM
Good post Wiisass. I'm running a 315/30-18 and 285/30-18 r/f setup on 12.5" and 11" wide wheels (CCWs, coincidentally) on an S13 hatch.

Nismo, my rear wheels have 8" backspace and need only a small spacer to clear inboard. The fronts have 6" backspace. I'd recommend running 2.25" or 2" diameter springs up front, along with some extended strut ears, to give more inboard clearance. One benefit of 18" wheels in the rear is the ability to go further inboard without interfering with the LCA and in my case, the knuckle (HICAS car). I try to keep the car as narrow as possible for a given wheel/tire size.

In trying to go fast we want to maximize grip. Minimizing unsprung weight is good in that it allows the tire to better follow the contours of an uneven surface. The benefits of this weight reduction must be evaluated against the defecit of running a smaller wheel/tire combination than may have been possible. In my experience, with a vehicle the size and weight of a 240sx, the negative effect of a bigger wheel/tire combo's additional unsprung weight will be more than offset by the combination's increased grip in any situation other than pure straightaways. Sure, the car may not feel as "light on its feet" with the bigger shoes, but where cornering speed is paramount (track/auto-x) it will be faster.

How wide to go depends on power level. For a KA with bolt-ons, I'd say 285/30-18 (or perhaps the new 275/35-15 when it's out next March/April) all around would be a good choice. For 300+whp I'd be looking at at least 315's in the back, and 335's for 400+whp. A little more front tire would be helpful since the 240 tends to be a little more nose heavy than is ideal, the problem is there aren't any good tires wider than the 285/30-18 that aren't also taller than 25", which is a limiting factor for the front wheelwell of an S13.

Diff discussions are academic, just like turbos, in that what's ideal for a person is very specific to their application. I happen to think that for autocross and most track use a Torsen T2R (helical with preload) is great, but since it isn't made for the 240, I've "settled" for an ATS 1.5-way.

Happy motoring all,

smelly240
12-28-2006, 01:04 PM
Your local welder.

i welded 2 myself - ones still sitting here - but i was hoping something maybe lighter? LOL - i like melted the entire shits together with these other ones and they're HEAVY.

ryan hagen
12-28-2006, 08:33 PM
i ve driven a welded,h-lsd, v-lsd, clutch type, open etc, i like the h-lsd the best, i got one for my car, next would be the clutch type. welded i didnt like you had to slide and stay on the power to get it to turn, if not it shaved your front tires off. h-lsd i liked but i messed with my sways bar too much and now i lift a wheel so i have to put it back to how it was. a clutch type a little looser than my freinds would be great for road raceing too though. v-lsd is waste of $ and welded is too hardcore for me.

i run a spec stage 2 z32 clutch on my ka-t powered car, and 275-40-17/275-35-18 tires, my clutch is shit with that, 285 on a ka with bolt ons? say good good by to the clutch and alot of other stuff thats alot of strain on a basically stock low powered motor. the place i work at is the largest buyer of wrecked vipers in states, and a 335 is not going to fit a 240 even with 50mm over fenders. i get to to play with viper tires alot

vrooompssssht
12-28-2006, 10:51 PM
For a KA with bolt-ons, I'd say 285/30-18


:bowrofl: :bowrofl:

jzr
12-28-2006, 11:40 PM
Heh, well you don't have to believe me. I spent all of 2006 competitively racing my 240 with a KA with bolt ons, and that's what I'd run if I were in a class that allowed it (DSP, for instance). The 285/30-18's are a good width for something of the 240's weight, and they're the same height as the HICAS car's stock tires (~25"), so they don't kill gearing.

For street use something that big is likely "overkill" but for getting around a track as quick as possible I think that's the best bet amongst DOT tires for a ~170whp 240, at least until the new 275 Hoosier comes out. Anecdotally, the success of the DSP E36 3-series BMWs of similar weight and power on those same tires provides some credence to the theory.

And who says the tires have to fit in the fenders? ;)

Wiisass
12-29-2006, 12:27 AM
And who says the tires have to fit in the fenders? ;)

Speaking of fenders, what are/were you running with the CCW's on the car? I'm trying to figure out what I can get away with for 10.5 in the front and 11.5 in the back. I was originally thinking of something like a -20 in the front and a -3 in the back. But I might be changing plans if I can fit a +32 in the back and then a -4 in the front. And tire size will probably be 275 in the front, maybe 295, and 315 in the back. They're 17's and I want to run Hoosiers so I don't have any choice on aspect ratio.

jzr
12-29-2006, 10:44 AM
Just these little bolt-on flares:
http://www.raceonusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3777

They cover the 315s in the rear okay, and would probably cover 335s okay as long as I don't go any wider with the wheels.

The front is another story. My struts are actually in now getting re-worked to try and get some additional inboard clearance. The little bolt-on flares don't quite cover the 11's, so in the long run I'll probably go with some 20 or 30mm wider front fenders and then attach the bolt-on flares to those, which should be close enough.

My wheels are 18x12.5" with 8" backspace and 18x11" with 6" backspace. That works out to about +32 offset for the rear and +12 for the front. With my old strut setup I needed about 15mm of spacer to clear in the front, but hopefully that requirement will mostly go away with the strut re-work. In the rear I'm using about 6mm, but when I get some adjustable rear LCA's I'll adjust everything outboard and get rid of the spacer.

Wiisass
12-29-2006, 03:54 PM
Are you sticking with the Koni's and just redoing the lower bracket? Any concern with the force line of the spring and adding bending in the strut? I know it's not ideal no matter what with the big wheels, larger scrub radius and just the fact that it's a MacP setup.

I think we're going to have a couple sets of different style fenders around the shop in the next couple weeks, so hopefully I can order my tires and put them on the car and see how things are going to sit. The nice thing is they're two different 3-piece wheels with the same outer bolt pattern. So I can mess around with backspacing.

jzr
12-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Hey, where did I say I was running Konis? ;)

Yep, I am sticking with them. Struts do suck though when it's time to do big tires. At least it's only the front...

For those still reading along, note that another benefit of a 3-piece race wheel like the CCWs vs. a 1-piece is the ability to play with the width and offsets (or repair damage) relatively inexpensively through the purchase of additional rim-halves, which cost much much less than a complete wheel. Of course, if you know the exact dimensions you want and know you won't ever play around with the dimensions or hurt any part of the wheel, a 1-piece can be lighter.

turtl631
12-29-2006, 05:06 PM
JZR, I know you used to do some open track stuff with an S2000. It seems that autocrossers use huge tires more than open track guys. Do you think these huge tires would be ideal on a track where rotational resistance is more of a factor and they have more time to cool off between corners? I remember reading some stuff about corvette guys turning faster times on the track with smaller wheel/tire combos than they use for the quickest autocross times. Just curious, thanks :)

jzr
12-29-2006, 07:09 PM
Keeping tires in their ideal temperature range is important. For some very small and light cars it may be difficult to get tires fully up to temp, I've seen this on cars like the Lotus 7 (~1100lbs). With big tires and a really hard compound, a driver may not be able to get the tires to temp.

We played around a bit with tire sizes on the S2000, and the fastest setup was always the largest we had (slicks the equivalent of 285/325's) on a car weighing well under 2400 pounds. Took 1-2 hard laps to really get 'em sticky though.

As for the Corvette story, I would consider the source carefully. I would wager that in any serious (say Speed World Challenge or faster) endeavor, you're not likely to find anybody campaigning a production-based car running any tire smaller than either the maximum allowed by the rules, or the maximum size they can physically fit to the car.

turtl631
12-30-2006, 12:07 AM
Hm, interesting. I guess this is yet another case where common sense/logic doesn't agree with experimental results. Thanks for the input, its always great to hear from people who actually know what they're talking about and have firsthand experience.

kapower
12-30-2006, 11:43 PM
I auto X in the NWR SCCA. I race an s13 in SM, and competed against an s13 with 335mm r compounds all around. I believe they had 12" wheels x4. I have also raced against the PDM 240.

Don from pdm told me that +4 offset would be about perfect for a 10" wheel up front. But his 17x10 +12 5zygens with 275's up front had 2 5mm spacers stacked together.

so for a 10.5" wheel a good offset maybe...

+2 offset - .25" (6.35mm) = -4.3mm offset or -2.3mm minimuim

I think Don's 275/45/17's bulged out more then a 285/30/18 so there should be a little more clearance with the 18" wheel and tire combo.

kapower
12-31-2006, 12:20 AM
Custom made 4 lug 5zygens for the S13 240sx are 17x9 + 20 offset.

The backspacing will vary from wheel to wheel. And clearance will change with tire size, and coil overs but...

-a 10.5 wheel is 1.5" wider (1.5 x .5 = .75) (.75" = 19.05mm)

-19.05mm - 20mm = 0.95mm offset. I think zero offset would be a safe bet, but you could always throw on a quality hub centric 5mm spacer if needed.

On the subject of tire heat. I could heat my rear tires, 225/50/15 V710's, up to 140+ degs in 1 lap the fronts would be about 115-120 deg f. The car had stock everthing sr20 redtop at 14-15psi, Camber 2.5 rear, 4.5 front, with a little toe in on the rear. The 240sx definetly needs 275mm+ for auto X but you'll need a tire warmer (dual driver ;)

IMO a 285/30/18 would be a great tire for an s13 in most auto X conditions.

I think the 275/35/15 will be more affordable, lighter, and lower the car more, but the smaller diameter means less tread contact on the ground so you will have less grip coming out of the corners while accelerating... But may overall be faster...

sideview_180sx
12-31-2006, 12:41 AM
those 5zigen's weren't custom by any means. but if you read up on those who had them, they experienced coilover rubbing issues. I had them and I rubbed up front on the coilover spring, then i took a 5mm spacer to it and it cured that problem.

jmauld
01-01-2007, 06:06 AM
Since this is relevant to what the original poster was asking about and might be some of the same issues he's going to run into, I'll post my question here.

I've got a set of 285/30/18s that I'm trying to get on my S14 at the moment. Rim size is a 18x9 with 35mm offset. Everything fits fine in the rear. No fender rolling or pulling is necessary.

The front I'm having difficulty with. With no spacers, the rims are hitting the springs on my shocks (bilstein inserts in lowered OEM housing). I can use a 25mm spacer to push the rims out enough to clear the spring, but then the tire hits the fender liners when turning.

I can use a crash bolt to push the top of the rim out some and use a 15mm spacer. However, that only allows me to get about -1.5 degree of camber out of my tein plates. Are there any other camber plates that give more adjustment then the tein plates? Besides slotting the mount holes.

My other option is to put the bilstein inserts into a non-lowered housing and lift the spring back over the tire.

JZR, what are you using to push the bottom of the strut further inboard, and does that screw withthe suspension geometry?


Any other suggestions?

jmauld
01-01-2007, 07:09 AM
I think the 275/35/15 will be more affordable, lighter, and lower the car more, but the smaller diameter means less tread contact on the ground so you will have less grip coming out of the corners while accelerating... But may overall be faster...

This tire is kind of interesting. I have a set of 15's that they would fit on, so I may give them a try.

My only concern is what they are going to do to the gearing. I've already been running a 225/50/15 which is smaller than the original tires. At most of the local autocrosses, I'm all over the rev limiter in second gear. The 275/35/15 is an even smaller diameter which would end up putting you into third gear. Of course there are some small parking lot courses that these tires would just kick butt on!

jzr
01-01-2007, 12:58 PM
No reason to use the 275/35-15 on the rear except in the case of a relatively low-powered stock car. A turbo 240 is just going to smoke 'em in the lower gears, at least with stock gearing. If you could shoehorn them on the 6" wide stock wheels, could be good for the car in Stock class. There's lots of room in the back to run a tall and wide tire, and it's easy to make even more room with the only sacrifice being the car's overall width.

In the front room is much more limited by the fender seam above and to the rear of the tire. The shorter the tire the better, assuming you can keep the ABS from getting too screwed up. Definitely worth trying up there.

The two ways to get more inboard clearance in front are to increase the length of the strut ears and running smaller diameter springs (2.25" and 2" options are available). Increasing strut ear lengths may compromise things somewhat, but such is life in dealing with strut suspensions.

Rubbing, grinding, and reduced steering lock are facts of life with big front tires on these cars, and it's not limited to strut cars. The Corvette I drove in '05 with 315 front tires, you could only turn the front wheel 3/4 turn before the inside of the rims ground into the control arms. Sure made correcting the all-too-frequent oversteer issues more difficult!

jmauld
01-07-2007, 11:40 AM
No reason to use the 275/35-15 on the rear except in the case of a relatively low-powered stock car.

For whatever reason, I've got my heart set on DSP. So I'm stuck with a relatively low-powered stock car. (Dyno'd 156hp to the wheels)

However, I got the 18's to fit this weekend.

This week, I'm taking off my shocks and sending them back to Bilstein to be rebuilt. Hopefully they'll be back before the local test & tune. If so, I'll find out how low I can lower the car, and get rid of that slight lean that I have.

Rims: 18x9, +35mm offset. 20mm spacer on the front
Tires: 285/30/18 Hoosier A6s.

No fender mods have been made yet.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/534/dscn0085uy4.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5391/dscn0084jw6.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1058/dscn0086dc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

nlzmo400r
01-07-2007, 02:54 PM
For whatever reason, I've got my heart set on DSP. So I'm stuck with a relatively low-powered stock car. (Dyno'd 156hp to the wheels)

However, I got the 18's to fit this weekend.

This week, I'm taking off my shocks and sending them back to Bilstein to be rebuilt. Hopefully they'll be back before the local test & tune. If so, I'll find out how low I can lower the car, and get rid of that slight lean that I have.

Rims: 18x9, +35mm offset. 20mm spacer on the front
Tires: 285/30/18 Hoosier A6s.

No fender mods have been made yet.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/534/dscn0085uy4.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5391/dscn0084jw6.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1058/dscn0086dc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

looks friggin sick, what kind of tires? Look like slicks

nlzmo400r
01-07-2007, 02:55 PM
oops, nvmd, reading pwns me. How does the 285 fit on the wheel? Any closer pictures of the actual tire on wheel

jmauld
01-07-2007, 03:07 PM
Is this what you're looking for? I think the tire fits on the rim pretty good. To be honest, I was expecting it to bulge out a little more.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7910/dscn0089lu9.jpg

nlzmo400r
01-08-2007, 08:00 PM
yea, thats what I was talking about, it does fit really well. Makes me think it would want to stretch on a 10.5

jzr
01-08-2007, 11:54 PM
That fitment isn't *bad* per se, but it would be better with a wider wheel. You can see the tread edge is rounded a bit, a wider wheel would flatten out the tread surface somewhat. I'll try to get a pic of mine on an 11" in the next day or two...

You car looks great Jason! I think it could be a great choice for DSP, go kick some BMW ass! :)