blowthrough setup

[yokotas13]

IS it viable on an SR20

I had one on my 4g63 with a 3 inch GM MAFsand MAFT for tuning. Im looking ot move hte stock MAFS into the hotpipe section of the piping for more accurate MAF readings.

is it able to be done, or is there something in the SR20 system that wont allow it

i searched Blow through, andn like 80 pages came up
then i tried "blow through" and no matches


thanks guys

[drifter808]

im really interested in doing this also. But i dont have any advice.

[yokotas13]

well i know on my DSM moving from the intake to the IC actually improved my AFRs without any tuning. id like to put it in the IC for more reliable ACTUAL readings.

[NemeGuero]

I don't see why it wouldn't be doable. But you'll need tuning done after.

[yokotas13]

of course
i have my PLX m300 and safc sitting here.
i have to tune it anyways after the t28 install

but before i spend 50 bucks on two couplers nad 4 t bolt clamps, i need a definate answer

[drifter808]

i remember reading on a website a long time ago that its recommended to put it in the coldpipe. but dont quote me on that.

[yokotas13]

it shouldnt matter on either section, its all pressureized the same. Unless the SR MAFS reads temp it wont matter

[smelly240]

i ran my car blowthrough for over 2 years - it works perfectly fine - Nomuken runs blowthrough on his 34

the maf works based completely off of temperature changes - so it has to go on the cold side.

do put a few wireties around the outside if ur on a Z32 maf (i dont but i heard of people doin it) - if you're scared of breaking the plastic maf. I run 18psi on a decently sized turbo - and i never broke it. Also, try to put straight pipe on each side of the maf.

my car spooled sooner and has better response blowthrough and i dont run a blowoff so i dont care about that venting the bov crap

if u want pics pm me - its mad easy to do on the cold side

[yokotas13]

OHHHH see, i didnt know that.
thx for clearing that up. ill get on it when i get a new correct coldpipe

[smelly240]

do you have a front mount yet? with a Front mount its way easier than the side mount - you just cut out some pipe and stick er in there.

[yokotas13]

yeah i have a FMIC, but i have a s14 coldpipe on it right now. gota find a 13


im tryign to figure out how its purely temp based, doenst make sense. can you explain a little better

on a 4g it measures airflow through honeycombs...i figrued it woudl be the same on an sr...

[yokotas13]

hot wire sensor. The air flowing over the wire cools it and the CPU gets its signal by how much current is needed to keep the wire at a set temperature.

thats why...i found it thanks to zeroyon!

[JSpecBnr32]

i ran blow threw on my ka24e-t for like 3 months until the motor took a shit I had no problems at all, i had my maf just before the intercooler on the hot pipe car ran great, just make sure to put your bov before the maf and check your mafs for leaks i had to switch out my sohc maf with another one because the first one i put on had a small leak. Do it Grant!

-Gleb!

[Dousan_PG]

search on Freshalloy.com
there's lots of info on it there

[reactor]

Just to help people out on this whole MAFS concept. Here is what a MAFS does.

First a Mass Air Flow Sensor measures 3 things about the air going into your engine and puts it into a single output (voltage signal) to your ECU.

Temperature, Mass (or density), and Air Speed.

Changes in any of these 3 parameters will change the voltage required to keep the MAFS hotwire at a constant temperature. The voltage signal is then sent off to your computer for use.

The best place to put this on a blow thru setup would be as close to the Throttle Body as possible as this would give the most accurate reading of the Air going into your engine.

But due to air flow dynamicies I believe it is recommended to put it at least 6 inches away (maybe its 3).

[drifter808]

yeah thats what i remember reading. coldpipe side and a certain distance from the TB. dont remember how far but something like that.

smelly240 can you post pics?

[yokotas13]

im going to do it, once i get my correct coldpipe, it will be one of the things i do as i put the coldpipe in.
It will just be a little while thats all.

[smelly240]

i posted some results on FA and Philly240(no longer there) a few years ago - if its not there i have it in a rtf.

[NemeGuero]

Its $50. Do it.

if it doesn't work... put it back. It'll be a learning experience.

[BlazedGlory]

From what I've read you need as much straight pipe on each side of the MAF as possible to reduce turbulence across the sensor. If this is so you wouldn't want to put it "as close to the throttle body as possible." I think I'm running between 8-12" of straight pipe on each side of mine on the cold pipe. I haven't had any problems with my Z32 MAF up to 21psi (415whp). Also, another note. Since you will have to run an adapter of some sort to use a coupler with the flat side of the MAF housing, make sure you actually RTV it or something against the MAF housing to prevent leaks/blowouts...

[yokotas13]

well
talking to some people on zeroyon, the Z32 MAFS element is removable from the housing
so im going to put a hole in the colpipe, epoxy it into there, and strap it in so it doesnt blow out of the pipe, and that will be my setup. I just have to make sure that the tube diameter is the same as the MAFS

[NemeGuero]

make sure you're measuring ID and not OD.

[yokotas13]

of course
i gotta go pick up a z32 mafs next month and then ill start the project

[Wykydtron]

i remember reading on a website a long time ago that its recommended to put it in the coldpipe. but dont quote me on that.

It would only make sense to place the blowthrough setup on the cold pipe. Who wants to heat up there MAF with hot air? Heat & Electronics don't mix to well, especially if your running a 10+ year old sensor. :Ownedd:

If you think about it, the MAF will read excessive amounts of oxygen (compressed), which would result in running a bit rich if the ECU is confused as all hell. What do you think it would do for timing? X_X

You'd probably get by with low benchmark goals, but if you turn up the pressure... Did Nissan design MAF's to be blow through? No :ugh:

My buddy Gleb had a blowthrough setup on his KA24e-T, it ran strong on 4psi until the engine heated up... It would jerk around and stutter at random, pull hard until 6k. The jerking/shuddering was embarrassing to say the least. That MAF heated up pretty good, it was located on the hotpipe side low and near the FMIC....

[JSpecBnr32]

Fuck u Eddi LOL its true.... none the less fuckin ran like a champ though!!

[smelly240]

look - teh length of the pipe on the sides only matters when u go movin shit around... if its the way u run it when u tune it - it doesnt much matter. just tune it right, and if u have consult on a daughterboarded ecu - or just doin a afc, watch your timing and count of knock and tune your car not like a douche.

****THE MAF MUST GO ON THE COLD PIPE! I have been doing blowthrough on cars for over 5 years now and i assure you it must be on the cold side - hot air particles arent going to absorb the heat from the wire like cold particles - it'll think you arent getting as much air - it runs lean and boink it cries for mommy and dies. not to mention the signal is gonna go crazy all over when the air is compressed (bc it gets hot in a hurry) and decompressed - just dont try it its bad. My Air intake temps dont vary but a few degrees on my cold side - and i havent noticed problems (i have a front mount of course)

A-Tech is correct about what it does - but more on how it does what it does (simplified)...
it reads/meters all particles in air by the following.. the particles of air remove heat from the heated resistor wire and this is how it calculates how much air there is. The more particles that touch the wire the more het is removed from it - thats why the maf works under pressure. heat moves upon contact and always towards cold. So when the wire cools off from particles absorbing its heat energy - more voltage is supplied to maintain the temperature of the wire. This is your maf signal voltage.

hope this doesnt confuse anyone - im really sick and its 1AM and i just started to put shit under the tree... hopefully by 3 ill be able to sleep.

[spdfreek0o]

well
talking to some people on zeroyon, the Z32 MAFS element is removable from the housing
so im going to put a hole in the colpipe, epoxy it into there, and strap it in so it doesnt blow out of the pipe, and that will be my setup. I just have to make sure that the tube diameter is the same as the MAFS

Can this be done with an s13 sr maf? The housing ID is stepped so Which ID should be used?

[smelly240]

you cant pull the element out of the s13 maf and use it in a pipe bc of the vane that it uses - it just wont work. I wouldnt remove the guts from the z32 unless it starts to leak - its just a stupid idea. once it leaks maybe mess with it - but if it doesnt fly apart on nomukens 34 - u shouldnt worry about it.

[fliprayzin240sx]

2 things: IIRC, the maf has to be atleast a certain distance away from the throttle body for the ECU to make the corrections. If its too close, the ECU doesnt have enough time to make the proper corrections for how much fuel to inject. Also the biggest reason I can see why not alot of SR guys would wanna do this is, how often does a T-25/28 blow its damn oil seals and start spitting oil into the charged side? Oil on the MAFs is never a good thing.

[spdfreek0o]

So is there a way to counteract the problems from running an open atmosphere BOV besides blowthrough?

[yokotas13]

Vane pressure converter from HKS does it

[spdfreek0o]

might as well go MAP

[yokotas13]

i dont want to go map, i dont know how to tune map, ad im not paying 1500 for an initial tune here

[smelly240]

2 things: IIRC, the maf has to be atleast a certain distance away from the throttle body for the ECU to make the corrections. If its too close, the ECU doesnt have enough time to make the proper corrections for how much fuel to inject. Also the biggest reason I can see why not alot of SR guys would wanna do this is, how often does a T-25/28 blow its damn oil seals and start spitting oil into the charged side? Oil on the MAFs is never a good thing.

t25's suck and they're so small theres absolutely no benefit from even having a blowoff valve. dont have a pos blown turbo and you dont have hte problem. keep your car in check and well maintained and use proper restrictors...

as for the length - it shouldnt matter as long as u put it 5 or so inches from the tb.

If you want to go map - you're looking at a 400$ minimum for a translator - or 750+ to 1600 for a standalone thats map... so goin map is out of a lot of peoples price range.

VPC doesnt work as good on SR's as it does on supras.

So is there a way to counteract the problems from running an open atmosphere BOV besides blowthrough?

get a safc and set the decel correction up - it works fine.

[BlazedGlory]

Yeah it will run ok with a pull-through maf setup, but you will be dumping fuel when you let off the gas. Mine used to blow fireballs and shit... Not really that cool imo...

[sliddinsil8o]

dude i say just stick with what Motorworx said on the YON....my 2 cents

[smelly240]

Yeah it will run ok with a pull-through maf setup, but you will be dumping fuel when you let off the gas. Mine used to blow fireballs and shit... Not really that cool imo...


with an AFC and decel det up - it wont shoot fire or idle weird, pal.

[BlazedGlory]

with an AFC and decel det up - it wont shoot fire or idle weird, pal.


Mine idled perfect... I didn't mean to offend anyone either...

[yokotas13]

dude i say just stick with what Motorworx said on the YON....my 2 cents
i prolly will

he knows a hell of a lot more than me thats for sure.

[!Zar!]

Anyone care to post up what was said on YON...

[sliddinsil8o]

this is motorworks from the YON:

Also be aware that the reason 99% of tuners don't do this is that air that is more dense does not cool the sensor near as much as the higher velocity air in front of the turbo. The air in the pipe, even after the intercooler is way hotter than the inlet; the hotter air becomes, the less efficient it is at absorbing heat. Absorbing heat from the element is how your MAF meter works. In other words, they don't measure large density changes, like you would see in trubo piping, very well. It makes for very crappy tuning resolution between on-boost and off-boost. It works OK for small transient (low boost) applications, but the larger the transient, the worse the resolution. There are systems that use a MAF meter in the piping, but they also use a MAP sensor as part of the tuning trim. Also be aware that most MAF sensors won't tolerate heat above about 80*C. Ait exiting the intercooler can easily exceed this at low vehicle speeds and high boost.

If you're going to keep the MAF meter, just use a larger one and keep it in front of the turbo.

[McRussellPants]

SAFC sucks.

so does open BOV on T25.

[kuramaya]

So is there a way to counteract the problems from running an open atmosphere BOV besides blowthrough?

My older Cheap Way - SAFC II with Decel Air Settings Set.

My newer More expensive way - Power FC, with APEXi Boost Sensor Kit with a good tune. I have no problems and run Open BOV with both setups.
Late
Daryl

[smelly240]

My older Cheap Way - SAFC II with Decel Air Settings Set.

My newer More expensive way - Power FC, with APEXi Boost Sensor Kit with a good tune. I have no problems and run Open BOV with both setups.
Late
Daryl

i said that on the last page daryl :P - im glad u got teh PFC tho... lets see another pull - and break 300 this time!



and my intake air temps havent gone over 55C yet - so i dunno when i'll see 80C - but if i do - ill switch it back to drawthrough - since i dont run a BOV anymore anyway... just i dont feel like makin a new coldpipe.

SAFC sucks.

so does open BOV on T25.
blowoff valves are a gimmick... :D rattlesnake + boopoopooopooopooooooo chigguhchigguh > psssht.

[kuramaya]

i said that on the last page daryl :P - im glad u got teh PFC tho... lets see another pull - and break 300 this time!



and my intake air temps havent gone over 55C yet - so i dunno when i'll see 80C - but if i do - ill switch it back to drawthrough - since i dont run a BOV anymore anyway... just i dont feel like makin a new coldpipe.


blowoff valves are a gimmick... :D rattlesnake + boopoopooopooopooooooo chigguhchigguh > psssht.

Damn, I admit I didnt read the whole thread...

Yeah should install the controller on Saturday when I do my Harness reloc and run a solid 1.1 from there on out. I spent a solid 6 hours working on the car Tues and never got to the Harness reloc I had planned on doing..at least I got the camber on front and rear set along with the drop...no pics yet
Late
D

[yokotas13]

SAFC sucks.

so does open BOV on T25.
glad i have no BOV and a t28

[smelly240]

stay no bov - its the cat's meow

[withy]

i believe that e-manage and safc both have a feature to keep the car from stalling after boost.

back to the blow through, i have actually learned something today. great.

but, say one were to set up a blow through on the cold side. how much unign would be involved? wouldn't think very much simply cause the temp changes should be realitively the same...correct?

it seems like that in the stock location once the car starts to spool it would start to cool before the coldpipe location.... correct me if i'm wrong. so wouldn't leaving the mafs in the stock location be a benifit?