Apexi SAFC II or SAFC NEO? Which do you prefer?

[finalforce]

I'm planning on getting and Apexi SAFC soon and I was weighing out my options. I know Apexi released the newer verson, the NEO, I was wondering who has tried both, know someone who tried both or any wise recommendations on what's better for my S14 SR20 DET. Advantages, disadvantages, pros/cons, so on and so forth. The NEO is slightly higher priced but if it's that much better, I'll pay extra for the better of the two. Thanks guys.

[sunnys14]

neo has adjustment for ever 250 rpms and has vafc built in. other than that, its the same as a safc2

[Highboost180SX]

neo has adjustment for ever 250 rpms and has vafc built in. other than that, its the same as a safc2

The Neo only has one datafile, i say SAFCII FTW. As far as a nissan is concerned they do the same thing just that the NEO looks pretty.

[CKAMC]

Neo is pretty good bang for its buck... the function of a piggyback along with the adjustments of the safc.... sounds good for lower power applications.

[Flybert]

SAFC2 is practically the same as NEO and you can find them used for cheap. Not even worth getting a NEO in my opinion.

[finalforce]

Thanks a lot for the recommendations everyone.

[KingPastry]

the neo has no benefit for any car unless it's a honda/acura.. the neo just combined the afc and vfc(for v-tec)

so it the afc for you

[Pstl_pete]

I have used BOTH. Just recently pulled the NEO for an EMS.

Like everyone has mentioned the NEO is basically a SAFC but with a little more options. I do like the layout much better on it, you can change your settings much quicker and have more resolution on the maps. All in all if youve got the money I would go with it. If you are working on a tight budget get the SAFC II

[upSLIDEdown]

The Neo only has one datafile, i say SAFCII FTW

Can you elaborate on this? I'll be needed one or the other in the not so distant future as well. I'd like to hear more opinions, esp from people like Pstl_pete that said:

I do like the layout much better on it, you can change your settings much quicker and have more resolution on the maps.

[Wei240]

don't think i can justify the price difference since the safc is much cheaper than the neo, much cheaper because you can find used ones for cheeeaaap

unless you like cool new gadgets

[GreekRPS13]

ive been reading about the neo and it looks pretty hi-tech and from what i read includes all the functions of the afc

[johngriff]

Any Load Intercept Piggy Back is a pile of crap.

That is NOT IMO, that is cold hard FACT.

Write UP (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?p=1077578#post1077578)

Wait. Save money, Buy A Haltech, Power FC.

Or wait for the AEM FIC, Its only $400 and is a non Load Intercept Piggy back.

If anyone puts an AFC on their Stock 240sx, i'll will E-kick them personally!!

j/k.

[Wei240]

i don't even know what the neo goes for, but i'm assuming it's in the range of an emanage...
never used emanage, but it has to be better than any variant of the afc...

[upSLIDEdown]

Wait. Save money, Buy A Haltech, Power FC.

Or wait for the AEM FIC, Its only $400 and is a non Load Intercept Piggy back.

If anyone puts an AFC on their Stock 240sx, i'll will E-kick them personally!!

j/k.

PFC is not an option, this is a KA-T. I don't really want to deal with the wiring of a full standalone, and I'm not willing to put the $$$ into an AEM EMS. What's this FIC you speak of?

BTW, my scenario is I have a friend that does daughterboard tuning. I will most likely be going that route, but I'd like to have something in the car that I can adjust on the fly if I need to. Ideally I'd like to be able to switch from an 8-10 psi street setup to a 15-18 psi "fun" setup fairly easily. Yes, the motor will be built to take it, just looking into something that will let me make sure everything is kosher without having to bust out a laptop all F&F style...

[johngriff]

Im so sure.

Have your friend tune your ROM to "15-18" psi then. Then do another tune @ "8-10 psi". This can be done on the same map.

IN both instances, the AFC will still be of NO HELP TO YOU WHATSOEVER.

You just need to pre program your boost controller in two modes after this.

Search for the FIC.

AEM has Plug and Play for KA.

KA-T? the OP was asking about SR.

If you are turbo charging a KA, then wiring should be no issue for you, you allready have alot of custom work done.

[crazy9ceguy]

i got the s-afc 2, i like it better then the neo becuase it has 2 datafiles and it has knock readings, im pushing about 330 rwhp with very simple setup and good tuning =)

[johngriff]

What are you tuning with your AFC? What is the setup?

[upSLIDEdown]

Have your friend tune your ROM to "15-18" psi then. Then do another tune @ "8-10 psi". This can be done on the same map.
I have no idea about ROM tunes, he's the one that will be doing it. I have yet to call him and ask him about it or anything. He just told me that when the time came, he'd be more than happy to do it.

Im so sure.
Wow, smartass much?

AEM has Plug and Play for KA.

and I'm not willing to put the $$$ into an AEM EMS.

KA-T? the OP was asking about SR.

Yeah, and I'm building a KA-T, who cares? It's still gonna be doing the same thing. They don't have an SR version and a KA-T version of the AFC now do they?

If you are turbo charging a KA, then wiring should be no issue for you, you allready have alot of custom work done.

WTF does turbocharging a KA have to do with this? Either way, you have to wire the damn thing in. I said in my previous post that I don't want to deal with a complete standalone such as Haltech because of a) price and b) all the wiring. As far as custom, yes, some stuff will be custom, but now-a-days, you could go out a buy any/every thing you need for a KA-T that's bolt on/plug and play. The only custom anything you would need is tuning.

[johngriff]

Dont take my sarcasm to heart, i guess it was just the Fast and the Furious referance that pissed me off.

The point is, A load intercept Piggy back will be horrible for N/A to turbo. You need a full map retune, which can only be done by:

Tuned Rom
Full EMS

Pull out a laptop to make sure everything is ok. Well, the only critical feedback feature on the AFC is the Knock, and since you are destroying the knock harmonics of the stock sensor by turbo charging the engine, that readout will be completely moot.

Any other feedback features are going to be scaled incorectly because it is KA-T.

So, the FIC is the way to go for you. Its CHEAP, its rediculously Simple to wire in and it is an output altering piggy back, not an input.

Got some pics of your setup? What size turbo? Injectors? Maf? Etc..

[upSLIDEdown]

Dont take my sarcasm to heart, i guess it was just the Fast and the Furious referance that pissed me off.

No problem. My F&F reference was just that, a reference. I want this car to be as streetable as possible.

The point is, A load intercept Piggy back will be horrible for N/A to turbo. You need a full map retune, which can only be done by:

Tuned Rom
Full EMS

Pull out a laptop to make sure everything is ok. Well, the only critical feedback feature on the AFC is the Knock, and since you are destroying the knock harmonics of the stock sensor by turbo charging the engine, that readout will be completely moot.

Any other feedback features are going to be scaled incorectly because it is KA-T.

So, the FIC is the way to go for you. Its CHEAP, its rediculously Simple to wire in and it is an output altering piggy back, not an input.

See, this is helpful. Thanks. Seems like I definitely need to do some research on this FIC. Basically, the only thing I was wondering about using the AFC for was fine tuning if it ever needed it. The base tune will most likely be done with the daughterboard. I just haven't talked to him about it all. Didn't know whether I would still need something like this to fine tune things periodically or not (season changes for example-summer/winter).

Got some pics of your setup? What size turbo? Injectors? Maf? Etc..
No, I'm still collecting a few parts and waiting on the engine work to be done.
Crower rods
CP Pistons
GT3071R
72lb injectors
Z32 MAF
FMIC
MSD SCI/Blaster coil
ETC ETC ETC

[johngriff]

Please read my write up a few post up about the afc and its effects on the timing map, with the 3071r and high boost, "random" timing will be the end of your setup.

Hence the above options.

Ask S14DB about the FIC, he turned me onto it last night, a demo page (because it is still going under beta testing) is on AEM's website as well.

[upSLIDEdown]

I'll check that out tomorrow. I'm leaving work now. Got a link for that demo? I don't see it, but I don't really have time to look really hard right now either. If not, I'll just look for it tomorrow.

[upSLIDEdown]

Found some on it. Somewhere I read it's designed for OBDII vehicles... Does that mean it won't work, or will work differently on an OBDI vehicle? I have an S13.

[johngriff]

since it effects outputs only it is "an ideal solution" for obdII ecu's that freak out when they see weird signals comming in from devices like the AFC.

But, in the end it is universal. It takes the injector signal out from the ecu, then modifies it to your settings.

[koukimonster139]

haha srry to threadjack, john-ive been running a safc2 with s15 injectors and never noticed signs of detonation or overheating even at high RPM, BUT your starting to worry me with your write up lol

ditch the safc? haltech? FIC? u sound like u have a lot of experience with this type of thing. thanks

[johngriff]

yeah, b/c your ecu is using way different numbers for timing now.

[koukimonster139]

yea... i wasnt like questioning you or w.e.

but erm thanks

[johngriff]

HAHA, no not even. On the cheap the fic is going to be the way to go. It will not be until it comes out that we see what is limitations will be, probably similar to the capacity of maf matched against it. But it also might be a + or - system, which will be worthless. If they let you dictate injector Time over MS, it will be SUPER KICK ASS.

[GSX Running]

If u want to go the right way and have the cash go with the AEM, if ya are tight on cash go with the Rom Tune

[upSLIDEdown]

HAHA, no not even. On the cheap the fic is going to be the way to go. It will not be until it comes out that we see what is limitations will be, probably similar to the capacity of maf matched against it. But it also might be a + or - system, which will be worthless. If they let you dictate injector Time over MS, it will be SUPER KICK ASS.

So in your opinion, if the FIC is a + or - system, would I be better off with a ROM Tune? And if it's not?

[johngriff]

Upslidedown: For you i would start off with a good rom tune.

Not a mail order rom tune. If you can find a good tuner w/a GOOD dyno (mustang, dyno dyanmics, or maha) to do your rom tune, you will be in great shape. For what you are looking for, he can program a low boost and high boost setting into the same fuel/spark table.

The only time you really need "switchable map" is when you change one of the variables that affect the map. AIR, Spark, Fuel. The two easiest variables to change would be the turbo, and the fuel.

Basically, if you are going to have switchable maps, it would be for pump gas and race gas. That is about it.

[steve shadows]

Scott Avoy, or Hybridynamics are the only ones offering that in person on a dyno for nissan ecu that have any real world experience...

[upSLIDEdown]

Scott Avoy, or Hybridynamics are the only ones offering that in person on a dyno for nissan ecu that have any real world experience...

FALSE.

I have a good friend that's local that has tuned MANY cars, including all the Nissans he's owned, one being a 500+ whp stock internal KA-T. This is what I was going to do, or the FIC and get him, or another friend of mine that has built many a 400-500 whp car( and tuned them all himself) to help me tune it. I'm just unsure of which route to go. I think either of them are MORE than capable of tuning the FIC or the ROM Tune. Just trying to figure out which would be a better option. I want a low boost and high boost setting, but they will both be on pump gas. Low being 8-10 psi and high being whatever I can get away with SAFELY without detonating on pump gas.

[johngriff]

Altering stock values using a piggy back?

Or creating new stock values fit to your settup?

Hmmm... that is a tough one.

[withy]

quick question. even though the ems is plug and play, don't you have to have professional tuning before you can even drive the car?

[johngriff]

which ems?

haltech? what platform? Haltech, i have base maps, you can drive the car on.