Drifting [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

NervGS

07-23-2002, 09:57 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 23 2002,09:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What exactly is so wrong about drifting that it necessitates flaming or shunning? Just curious....</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The fact that it is now considered "JDM" and cool to do it.  The newbies/idiots who see this stuff on Option, Drift Tengoku, Young Version, etc are totally clueless about the whole concept, dumb in a sense of keeping one safe, and just want to as "JDM" or cool as possible.  Heres a typical question.

"I want a drift car, I heard a silvia or that car that takumi drives in initial D is a drift car, where can I get one and for how much."

Or one of my favorite.

"Anyone hook it up with some drift wheels or drift style wheels?"

Hmmm...  Last I checked I was able to drift with FUCKING SPARE WHEELS.

Its stupid questions like this, people jumping on the bandwagon, and posers who only want the look that is whats getting a negative vibe from this whole community.  My mom used to tell me stories when I was younger about her car stuff, frequent trips to Japan as well, thus, I was raised with knowing about the whole "JDM" thing.  These new people only experience it through videos and magazines they don't understand, sure, ask stupid questions, I would just hang out and learn myself.  There is MORE then enough shit on the internet to learn yourself about the whole drifting concept, then you go out and try yourself in a SAFE enviroment (ie: NOT TOUGE).

I had bought my S14 back in high school in 2000 because it was a sports car, back then it WAS NOT in demand, no one asked about headlights and if I had an SR.  I learned how to drive grip in high speed canyon runs, I BARLEY drifted if ever, only when I was bored, I would go practice and I still was a beginner.

Its not all about screwing up your car, and doing strange poses in a photograph.

-glenn

negular

07-23-2002, 10:56 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmm...  Last I checked I was able to drift with FUCKING SPARE WHEELS. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

is that y that car in ur av. is all fucked up? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
j/j

Yoshi

07-23-2002, 11:05 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NervGS @ July 23 2002,08:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its not all about screwing up your car,</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I think I can classify myself as one of the older members, and i'm probably one of the only ones that like to go drift and destroy tires galore, but you know what? Drifting has gotten a bad rap from the wannabe's and ricers. Period.

Dumbass newbs who, like previously stated, just wanna be "JDM" and crap, go and try to drift their stock cars (sorry but bolt-ons don't count for shit in the grand scheme of things, that extra 2whp from your weaponR intake doesn't do jack). Kids drifting on public streets or in residential neighborhood cuz they think it's cool to "drift".

Even the definition has come under fire, and is a constant debate... FF cars ass drag, half of newbs with FR cars think they're drifting when they're just powersliding... it's retarded.

The thing that's destroying drifting in america is american culture. Hear me out before some of you start sending red white and blue flames in my direction.

Culturally, America is more concerned about image than ANY other country. Look at the fashion, music, entertainment, and movie industries. These are trades that America is known for, and famed for. Is it any wonder the ricer phenomenon is as large as it is? These kids can't help what they've become, it's inherent in our culture.

Drifting is Japanese. It's arguable that it was born there, but none can dispute that it was raised there, and heightened to an art form there. ...and it's part of THEIR culture. Ask any drifter there, they couldn't give a crap less what people think about how their car looks... because in the long run, it's an art form, for lack of better terminology. Not unlike the true surf and skate enthusiasts in america; these guys are in it for the rush, the skill, and most importantly the fun. Sure there are competitions, gymkhana events, even style challenges... but this is all part of the evolutionary process.

Drifting in america is a fledgling phenomenon at best. At it's worst is the reality of how most would be drifters treat it, sliding out of control, and endangering those around them. Because of the fact that drifting has evolved for the last 20+ years in japan, we start to see what that process has yielded after such a time period, and we appreciate it... but most appreciate it for all the wrong reasons... for newbs seeing drifting done by the best in Japan, they see something that "looks phat"... they don't see that it's about being in total control of the car, they don't see the hours and hours of time in the seat, they don't see the driver feeling every pit and bump in the road because his tires have become his fingers, and they sure as hell don't see how often they hit rails, or curbs, or dirt, or spin out.

All they see is an opportunity to try and look impressive, to show off to their friends/coworkers/girlfriend/boyfriend.

So enough blaming idiotic things on drifting and drifters, what it comes down to is the mentality of the driver. Are they smart enough to know the how's and when's? Do they give a rat's ass about the safety of others? or themselves for that matter?

Don't blame drifting. Blame those who have such low self-esteem that they feel they have to impress others.

oh yeah, and drifting IS about screwing up your car. Crashing and drifting go hand in hand, show me a drifter that's never wrecked, and I'll show you someone who's not a drifter.

edit: I just noticed a flaw in my quote above... wreck does not necisarily equate drifter... any idiot can wreck his car... it's just a certainty for those who drift.

BlackFox

07-23-2002, 12:19 PM

Wow, that's pretty deep man.

I don't drift. I just drive fast on mountain roads.:D:D:D
I like to keep my car in one piece. And tires are expensive.

 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

KiDyNomiTe

07-23-2002, 12:21 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yoshi @ July 23 2002,12:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even the definition has come under fire, and is a constant debate... FF cars ass drag, half of newbs with FR cars think they're drifting when they're just powersliding... it's retarded. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I find it kinda wierd, right after I read this I saw on Prelude forum someone ass dragging thier car. I don't know if the guy who was doing it knows he wasnt drifting, but some of the people on the forum know he was ass dragging.

http://www.preludeonline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78378

Anyway that turn looks really nice, not to sure if it gets a lot of traffic but doesn't look like it, and it is a humongous turn.

Starlin

07-23-2002, 12:52 PM

Well, being a Ford man for most of my life I guess I misunderstood what drifting was. So I went and looked arround to get a better understanding. I think I did.

I would NEVER even think of attempting it in my ford. In the 240, still not likely. The Sentra (see my above post) was ass dragging, but  did just as much damage no mater what you call it.

Starlin

HippoSleek

07-23-2002, 02:30 PM

Some of us appreciate it as an art form in a controlled environment. However, most people flocking to this board are too fascinated w/ the JDM trendiness of it all. (just like Yoshi said - although I'll respectfully disagree that image is less important in other societies).

Many of us just avoid it.  Why start flame war #572?  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>  I'm as sick of "drifters" as I am of street racers. It's not to say I can't appreciate it (drift or drag) - it's just that I think most of the people doing it are knuckleheads w/ no talent, deep parental pockets, and no sense of respect for other people on the road or driving, in general. Unfortunately, the few who do it respectfully and safely are outnumbered 50:1.

WHen people brag about owning a beater mid-80's econo-box like the Corolla, but are afraid to wreck it, you know you've got a No TAC.

I can only say I'm glad the "circuit racer" craze appears to be over.

Mark <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>
-who thinks we are losing the war vs. the newbs... but really doesn't care too much

Yoshi

07-23-2002, 02:53 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Starlin @ July 23 2002,11:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, being a Ford man for most of my life I guess I misunderstood what drifting was. So I went and looked arround to get a better understanding. I think I did.

I would NEVER even think of attempting it in my ford. In the 240, still not likely. The Sentra (see my above post) was ass dragging, but did just as much damage no mater what you call it.

Starlin</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No worries man, you're educating yourself, and that's what separates u from the rice <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Knowledge is Power  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

graphikg04

07-23-2002, 03:23 PM

Seriously. I have had my license for not even a week yet. And I have driven my 240sx for 68 miles. So, i really dont know if I am a newbie or not. I have never dumped a clutch, I have never tried to double clutch, peel out, spin out, or drift, and I havent even punched the accelerator. I know that those are dangerous persuadabilities, and I would want to be safe to others and myself, thats why I have never done them. But if I want to do those things, Ill practice in a track, or preferably an Auto X course in a parking lot.

But even before I was a permit driver I have loved the 240sx and I have known why it was reknown. But we all gotta face it. The 240sx is famous for its drifting capabilities, and thats why we always see it on the cover of import magazines. So no  matter what, we are going to have to face these newbies for as long as there is drifting. And these stupid Saturday night ricers are always going to perform some stupid eccentrecities in front of public viewing without using their dome, and without keeping in mind the safety of others.

   To be honest, I dont care about ricers. They can do whatever they want, BUT as long as they are safe, in a preferable area, and away from harming others. If they want to kill themselves, thats their choice. As for me, I will wait for an SR, and do it the right way by going to a certified racing school.  But I also gotta be frank, there is no doubt that I want to try dumping a clutch, rev matching, double clutching on down shifts, drifting, handbrake turns on hairpins, and power shifting. But the difference is that I believe in legal, safe (well safer than illegal racing), proffesional type racing. And that is what I see in the difference between assdragging "street drifters" and real performance  racing drifting. PEACE

graphikG                                    

p.s. I am just expressing my opinion, and I dont want to give the impression that I am flaming or anything. Thanks

DuffMan

07-23-2002, 04:39 PM

I'm not sure I understand the drifting culture too well, but I think there are different kinds of drifting, like drifting for show (linking drifts together). But also I think there is drift syle competitive driving, where they are actually racing. For the most part, drifting a turn is slower than keeping grip, but I think there some situations where it is actually beneficial. Especially with 400hp cars making tight turns.

Though I'm not really into it, the racing type of drifting kind of intrigues me. It's not really practical because it takes lots of power and shreds expensive tires, but maybe integrating some elements of it into your more normal racing style of driving could make you faster.

Just a thought...

One-Eighty SX

07-23-2002, 05:13 PM

Well, i havent gotten a 240sx yet but i never jumped cuz of the handlin ablilties of the 240sx aka 180sx/s13/s14. But even if i did have it now i would not drift unless its in a controlled environment. I would never even think bout driftin on public roads and bring harm to other drivers. That would be stupid on my part and senseless, i do have brain and i would use it to my fullest. I dunno if i am a newbie ne more but hell i learned more than i thought i would tho that is for sure!! Plus also to keep my double clutch, power shifting, clutch kicking, heel toeing self off the roads. I mean if it wasnt for this site i wouldnt know bout these car as much as i do. But my reason i got out of da honda was too many hondas around now... and GOD damn THOSE RICERS gets on my nerves and shiet. so i wanted something different but also i been to a few street races and i didnt like too much i never found that joy of trying to beat someone at all... and also i am very fascinated by the art of drifting. Even tho it takes alot of seat time, practice practice practice.... When i saw the option vids for the 1st time i was like damn that is neat. I never in my mind thought i should do it on the roads and all that stuff. Plus as someone has mention those cars are out of control but the driver is directing them in the direction he want it to go. Its still very underground in japan and it does have events for those drifters who wanna test and show their skill or improve it even more. I think that is all at least i got my point across sayin i am not stupid do drift on the streets and so forth... later guys

whateverjames

07-23-2002, 08:14 PM

i just hate hearing about people wreck their cars when attempting drifting. mostly because i hate hearing about a 240sx getting wrecked. second of all, you have no business drifting (if you even DID a drift) if you don't even know the car's GRIPPING abilities. i like watching drifting, and i love setting up cars on GT3 for drifting, but i don't understand why anyone would want to do that to their car when they can't afford the tires and they don't have experience with pushing a car to it's limits without going over, in first place.

DrDubbleB

07-23-2002, 09:30 PM

Yoshi, well spoken!  It's true though, everyone that asks about it or brags that "they think they drifted today" seems to be a newbie on the forums.  It gets old, it gets annoying and it is one of the reasons why I have frequented these boards less often.  

It's a phase though, and I'm waiting for the day that it will pass.  With the new F&F coming out and Initial D coming stateside, it might get worse before it gets better.  Those of us that can endure will be better for it.

junia

07-24-2002, 05:25 AM

I agree with most of you guys.  People make too big of a deal about drifitng here in the States period.  Why should anyone care if you drift an awd, ff, or an fr.  People get too wrapped around what drifing is.  All I know is back in Japan people used to take any old car and take it to a drift competition or just take to the pier or mountain to drift.

240Dori

07-24-2002, 05:28 PM

I have been folowing the japanese drift scene for the past three years and I think its great that the japanese have found another way to race or show control of the car then the traditional grip style cornering or drag racing(yawn).  It would be great if it was as big as it is in japan here in the states, but it simply isnt...yet.  Its great that clubs like 4AGE and the like are starting to sponser drift speicific track days and trying to make it bigger through the right channels.  Some kid who just watched the first episode of initial d jumping in his dads towncar and wraping it around a tree is obviously not the right way to go about it.  But hey, if you dont like true[I] drift im not trying to force you to, i love drift and every thing about it.  People should keep taking it in the direction that it is going so in say ten years from now have a nice sized drift scene.  Sure it may be a strech but you cant deny that it is a growing trend not only (and unfortunately) on the streets, but (more importantly) on the track through sanctioned events.   Just my two cents

tnord

07-24-2002, 06:21 PM

DRIFTING IS NOT THE FASTEST WAY AROUND A CORNER, PERIOD. it never has been, and i hope to god it never will be. don't give me any rally bs or "what if" scenario's. if what you nini's think is drifting is the quickest way around a corner, why don't you EVER see anybody do it?

on second thought, i love drifting. because as soon as somebody comes up to me and asks "do you drift?" i already know they are an idiot. i'm going to make a window banner that says, "i don't have an SR and i don't drift" then everybody with the proverbial JDM cock in their ass will quit fucking bothering me. it's like the beavis and butthead scenario......

beavis; ya know what butthead, i wish nothing sucked, like, everything should be cool
butthead; no beavis, because if stuff didn't suck, you wouldn't know what's cool

and now for the mass generalization.......

YOU DRIFTERS SUCK

bring the flames all you 12 year olds

240Dori

07-24-2002, 06:37 PM

Who claimed that it was the fastest way around the corner, even the drifters in japan know that grip is faster, you know why they do it, because it shows that they are talented enough to throw the tail way out and still keep in control in concequtive corners...how bout you go online and SEARCH for what real drift is about, its about having a good time and pushing yorself and friends to get better...extreme show drifting may not be the fastest way around the corner however, i have a friend who happens to race Jedi racing Formula S cars in the circut and yes he does use slight drift in order to set up a line if there is a tight s bend or two consecutive corners and major understeer would induce otherwise...But im glad that Michael Schumacher is your dad so you know every thing about car control...god its too bad that intellegence on this shit is judged by a number of posts.

Oh yea, i have a 9-5 job and a life away from the computer so i apolagize for not having fifty million posts

And now for a generalization,
 Sweaty nerds who sit around on thier computers all day to biuld up posts so they can be respected in one facet of life SUCK.

MyFirst240SX

07-24-2002, 07:05 PM

I don't claim to be a skilled drifter but i do enjoy to drift.  There are certain less populated really twisty roads that really fast on.  I like to do it for the control of your car and the rush that comes with it.  I like it better than the rush for your first street racing experience.  IS it smart? No  Am i saying it is? No
But i just do it bc i enjoy it, i care not about JDM TYPe R trends.
sean

tnord

07-24-2002, 07:09 PM

"Who claimed that it was the fastest way around the corner"
Duffman claimed that there could be certain situations where it would be beneficial......if you care to go back and read.

"how bout you go online and SEARCH for what real drift is about"
i know the basis of it, the problem is, other people don't.

"Jedi racing Formula S cars "
in all seriousness, what are these things, i've never heard of them. got a link? pic? i've heard of Formula Atlantic/Continental/Vee/Ford/Dodge/Sports2000/etc....but never jedi racing Formula S

"he does use slight drift in order to set up a line if there is a tight s bend or two consecutive corners and major understeer would induce otherwise"
you're talking about the technical definition of drifting. "where the yaw angle of the car is greater than the slip angle of the tires." i'm fully aware of the uses of this driving technique. basically, all it is is slight oversteer, which is what pretty much every decent race car does. by the way.....just because your friend does it this way doesn't mean it's the best. just in the same way my techniques might not be the best. personally, i've never seen anyone intentionally "drift" to setup for a corner, especially ess. having the cars momentum traveling in the exact opposite way i'm trying to go doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

"But im glad that Michael Schumacher is your dad so you know every thing about car control"
i'm not the end all leader in competition driving........but i'm not exactly a novice either. if you like, i can send you a link to my times, and provide proof of all my track experience.

"god its too bad that intellegence on this shit is judged by a number of posts."
if you had been around longer (read: weren't an f'n newb), you would be fully aware that i'm no poeser.

bbp

07-24-2002, 07:19 PM

yeah! what http://www.engr.orst.edu/~rose/ralphsnds/ralph.jpg he said!!

DrDubbleB

07-24-2002, 08:56 PM

tnord, I'm not going to flame you, but I will say this:

Drifting is not done because it's the fastest way to drive a car around a track. It is done because of the control it takes to handle you car in that manner and it is done for the rush of it. Anyone that thinks that drifting is the fastest way around a track should be taken out back, shot, stabbed, tortured, and lemon juice should be poured in all of their wounds.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">use slight drift in order to set up a line if there is a tight s bend or two consecutive corners and major understeer would induce otherwise</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

See, now I have to attack the newbie because that's not what the type of drifting we're talking about is (and because tnord does know what he's talking about even if he hates everyone that likes drifting just because he's a grip driver)...onward with the definition game again.

The type of drifting people refer to on these boards is taking consecutive corners w/o grip on the rear tires...period. Now the gentleman you were talking about would have BARELY lost traction at all before regaining and continuing through the corner.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But im glad that Michael Schumacher is your dad so you know every thing about car control</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Oh...and yours is?

If I were a mod, I would lock every damn topic that I see on drifting, unless it was extremely relevant. Please stop posting about this shit. 1 vote to lock this post and all other drifting posts...can I get more?

tnord

07-24-2002, 09:20 PM

i'm with ya dubble.........all threads where the main topic is curb humping.........i mean drifting..........should be locked......but then again, what do i know?

fodive

07-24-2002, 09:26 PM

I dont see what the big friggin deal is....if you see a thread on drifting, heres a thought, DONT LOOK AT IT! you guys wast eall of your time getting into stupid arguments...welll if you dont want to look at a post, dont look at it, some people like drifting, some dont...if it doeswnt intrest you dont read it, jsut because you guys dont like it, doesnt mean it has to get locked...its just a forum, chill <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

tnord

07-24-2002, 10:15 PM

fodive.......i used to agree with you.

at first i thought that if you just ignored them they would go away. in theory if they have nobody that responds to their posts they would stop posting such stupid garbage, or go somwhere else. here's the problem, there's gotten to be so many of these numbnuts (not talking about anybody in-particular) that they just carry on conversations with each other. which would be fine except that the stupidity spills over into other venues/threads (remember those electric turbo threads?). they're like ants...........once one gets in your house, they just multiply like crazy and are difficult to get rid of. the solution? kill them all. the KA/SR thing is fairly under control if you ask me, but the whole drifting thing is not. if they can't talk about their mad drifting skillz here, hopefully they'll go over to NICO.

in case your wondering..........there is a lot of time to think about pointless crap when you paint houses for 10hrs a day.

Griffon2k

07-24-2002, 10:24 PM

Just a couple comments on the riduculous things I have seen posted....

OLD GUYS vs. NEWBIES- when will this bs stop?? It seems like this always causes a problem in here. The amount of posts that you have put up does not prove how intelligent or clueless you are. Tnord has put up many a post. Some of them have been dead on, some have been pure bs.That can be said about anyone in this forum. Most times a lot of these so called OLD GUYS flame or start something with a newbie because they feel like gods..I agree with Fodive, if you don't like a topic, or feel like you have to flame someone for speaking on their interests, DON'T CLICK ON THAT POST... you have a choice.

I am so sick and tired of JDM this and JDM that, if you carried your ass over to Japan, your car would be average. People are basically spending thousands of dollars to make their cars STOCK. True there are some benefits to JDM parts, such as quality, but buying a Mugen valve cover doesn't make your car run any better. It is a quick way to fork over about 700.00 though.....

Drifting is not something that is exclusively Japanese. It is popular there, and it has been done with that level of popularity for years, but to claim that as exclusively Japanese is like claiming that racing is exclusively American. These are pastimes that many people enjoy. It is ludacris to label either one as exclusive to one people. If that was the way things were meant to be, I'd remind you just how much the Japanese love American tv, food, image, clothes, music, need I go on? I don't think so. The point is that people take interests in things that are out of the normal. When you criticize American people for taking note of Japanese culture, or Japanese people for taking note of American culture, you take the fun out of all of it. Can't we learn from each other??

If it weren't for an American building the first car we wouldn't be talking about all of this right now. The point in that statement is that one PERSON created the automobile. Since that creation, other PEOPLE of DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES and CULTURES have improved upon it. Great performance machines have been made by Germans, Italians, Japanese, Americans, etc. Racing has been done by all of these PEOPLE. But the act of RACING, DRAG RACING, AUTO X, DRIFTING and the like belong to NO ONE. They are for the people who have the heart to attempt these acts, and the love to continue....

NUFF SAID  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

whateverjames

07-24-2002, 10:33 PM

i just wanna know why people are getting defensive about the number of posts someone has. how the hell is a number going to intimidate you. i got a private message last week saying i thought i was cool because i had a lot of posts. (it was about some silly disagreement). if it were an option, i would keep my # and join date hidden from everyone. and i wish we all didn't have these numbers next to our names so people would shush. and to stop post whoring <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

DrDubbleB

07-25-2002, 12:55 AM

I honestly don't know when this got into a culture argument because that's not what this post is about; it's about drifting. I have said it before I am a big fan of drifting, I like it, I do it, keep it safe and more power to ya. If you want to bring culture into it, I am fascinated by Japanese history. I will be taking the Japanese language this coming semester, I am taking Kendo, I studied ancient asian history so I could learn more about their past, and the more I learned, the more intriguing it became.

No one is criticizing anyone for taking note of Japanese culture, they are criticizing them for asking what good websites there are for learning how to drift and what's a mad phat dorifting wing yo? They are being criticized because they are just wannabes and they are not being safe when they go drifting around public streets, and they prove this to us with moronic posts about how they drifted into someone's front yard today or they drifted in the rain.

These are the posts that should be locked instantly, not posts that have relevance, like results from a competition or videos, pictures, etc. I've wasted enough time...I think my point is made.

HippoSleek

07-25-2002, 07:27 AM

At present:  Drifting is rice.

If you don't believe me, ask the creators of F&F 2.  

It appeals to that same class that worships all things "JDM" from girls (which always seem to be Pinays?), to culture, to cars.  It's become a lifestyle thing that bears little resemblence to its origins.  Even in Japan, it is rice.  Look at the magazines w/ the cambered out cars with $5000 paint jobs.  Lets see - an overly done car that never participates in the events it was built for?  R-I-C-E.

But even the "hardcore" drifters leave me wondering.  Drifting is based on the ability to lose a car, but recapture it.  Its roots are in the inability to keep a racing line - but the ability to maintain enough control not to crash.  As time went by, it got showier and showier until you ended up w/ the full on tail-out-jackassery we see today.  What once was a reckless pissing match (i.e., "I can come closer to crashing and save it than you") is now a show sport - like figure skating.  

Show sports are now sports at all.  Sports are measured with instruments - fastest, highest, furthest.  If it requires a judge, it should be on Oxygen or Lifetime.

NervGS

07-25-2002, 08:44 AM

>>Even in Japan, it is rice.  Look at the magazines w/ the cambered out cars with $5000 paint jobs.  Lets see - an overly done car that never participates in the events it was built for?  R-I-C-E.

Do you live in Japan?  Do you know anything about the car culture or anything down here?  How is that considered rice?  Drifting has been, and probably will always be part of Japan's car culture just as how 1/4 mile runs are so popular in the US, hell, my mom used to f*ck up in her toyotas back in the early 70's.  I don't see 16 year old selling their souls to get a AE86 or S13 and making a big deal out of it unlike in the US because they saw it in some anime (AE86 is too damn expensive here anyway) or read about it in some magazine.  Its a fun sport, takes time to build skill and master (if ever), just leave it like that.  Where do you see cambered car with $5000 paint job that does not participate in race?  Hmmmm...  Last time I remember was when I was in the US and saw that!  Hot Import Nights?  I'm sorry, 99% of cars I see featured in magazines or videos down here, I see participate in drift events, road racing, illegal, etc.  That show junk is only in the US, unless its followed by "Hot Import Days/Nights" down here.

-glenn

bbp

07-25-2002, 09:56 AM

Here my opinion about the whole drifting thing.

I do not have the credentials of 1000's of posts here, but I do tune in everyday.  I guess I am one of the "older"  member by age.  I don't care for the drifting thing for a couple of reasons.  Most of the drifting is done on the street by inexperienced drivers.  This gives the whole 240 scene a bad rap.  I become guilty by association.  When I am trailering my race car to the track I have young doods coming up to me and asking "Is that a drift car?"  "Are you a drifter?"  whatever...

The answer is NO.  I am guilty by the F&F, 240, JDM, blah blah blah association.  

Now, on the other hand, if there was a track event that had a drift session I think it would be entertaining to watch, maybe even participate.  But only in a controlled enviroment where is it legal and more importantly safe.

To me, the drift crowd will someday look back on their drifting and say.. "What was I thinking?"   It's kinda like those booming stereos that piss off everyone but the wank in the car.  When they get a little older, the maturity will set in, you'll see.  I'm not sure if they are looking for attention or what, but always remember, if you seek attention, you want to be remembered for somethin *positive* you have done.  A notable achievement, like not crashing your car, not pissing off those around you.  Do you really want to be known a the guy who drives like asshole, cops know you by name, neighbors give you dirty looks etc etc...

DrDubbleB

07-25-2002, 11:46 AM

This argument just got rediculous with HippoSleek's interpretation of the situation.

Starlin

07-25-2002, 12:17 PM

I hate to burst anybody's bubble, but: Drifting didn't begin in Japan. It wasn't even perfected there!
Any of you ever watch Sprint car racing on a dirt track? They been doing this for decades, arround 180 degree corners even. hell I even watched guys dirt-tracking on Harleys drifting on ESPN2 a couple nights ago. Now that is skill.
Just thought I'd point that out.
Starlin

AKADriver

07-25-2002, 01:17 PM

The sliding done on dirt ovals really doesn't have much to do with what they're talking about.  Rally drivers do it, too.  In those low-traction situations they'd rather keep up their momentum around the corner than cut a perfect line.  Before the days of modern tires it was common to see this sort of driving in EVERY form of motorsports with turns.  Even today it's technically fastest to drive just beyond the limit of adhesion with a slight slip angle.

Is it drifting in the technical sense?  Yes.

What does it have to do with this modern drift culture?  Not a damned thing.

HippoSleek

07-25-2002, 01:44 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NervGS @ July 25 2002,09:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you live in Japan? Do you know anything about the car culture or anything down here? How is that considered rice? Drifting has been, and probably will always be part of Japan's car culture just as how 1/4 mile runs are so popular in the US, hell, my mom used to f*ck up in her toyotas back in the early 70's. I don't see 16 year old selling their souls to get a AE86 or S13 and making a big deal out of it unlike in the US because they saw it in some anime (AE86 is too damn expensive here anyway) or read about it in some magazine. Its a fun sport, takes time to build skill and master (if ever), just leave it like that. Where do you see cambered car with $5000 paint job that does not participate in race? Hmmmm... Last time I remember was when I was in the US and saw that! Hot Import Nights? I'm sorry, 99% of cars I see featured in magazines or videos down here, I see participate in drift events, road racing, illegal, etc. That show junk is only in the US, unless its followed by "Hot Import Days/Nights" down here.

-glenn</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
1)  No.  

2)  Maybe.  

3)  Carpet queens are always rice.  Any car that is too pretty to use is rice in my book.  You can't honestly tell me that someone is going to take a $2500 car, put $15,000 worth of parts and paint on it, just to participate in an event at the same level as a $2500 car with $2500 of parts (paint- who needs it).  Overkill is rice.  Cambered out, $bling$ 18's on a real drift car would hit a curb and be killed.  Ditto the $bling$ bumpers with the $bling$ paint.  I take it you are saying that those show whores in Option or TAS are really used?  Uh - try again.  $Bling$ = Rice.

4)  Not really.  While dating back some time, it is hardly as old as auto racing.  I'm just going to say - not quite as popular as 1/4 mi. in the US or there would be legal drift tracks all over Japan.  And, dude, for Christ's sake, NEVER bring your mother into an internet conversation.  You are lucky I'm a nice guy.

5)  The value of a soul is either lower in Japan... or the cost of auto ownership higher.  BTW: are you trying to make a point "for" or "against" the prevalance of drifting in Japan.  A better one would have been that kids WOULD do anything to own a drift machine.

6)  Fun - sure.  Impossible to master?  So is a quad-toe-loop-lutz move on skates.

7)  WOW - You mean that HIN isn't the sh!t?  Gee, I thought that was the yardstick of anti-rice.  NTAC.

8)  99% and your full of it.  See reference to TAS and Option carpet queens above.  Every drifting video (commercial and personal) I've seen has been decent looking to beater cars - not those with dubz and 87 coats of paint.  Actually, personal videos usually show beaters.

Try being honest next time... or are you too cool b/c I don't live in Japan?  Thanks for playing <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Yoshi

07-25-2002, 02:00 PM

*sigh*
why does this topic always have to be so hostile.
Bitching at eachother is not helping the supposed community feeling this forum should have.

Pro (as in "For", not "professional) Drifters - have fun, be safe. Don't brag or make lame posts about what you're trying to do.

Anti Drifters - you can hate all u want, but like rice, it's not going away any time soon. It's like religion, there are no holy wars until someone tries to force their believe on someone else.

To each his own.
This petty bickering is really starting to piss me off... this thread, if you read the beginning, was an honest question.

How about we just try to keep the negativity out of it... if you don't like the subject, don't dump fuel on the fire, these threads will be around like it or not.

edit: dammit I can't spell.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Zemus

07-25-2002, 02:11 PM

i felt like, hey ill put in my 2 cents, from what i hear only 3% of the turns on a coruse are faster if you drift them, drift is more for showing off and style points, they even said that in the new Motor Trend, in the artical "Car Surfing".  I think its kinda fun to drift, just you know like a powerslid hear and a powerslide their, but the funny thing is i like drifting but i dont like hurting my car.  I just totaly bent an Arm and fucked up a whole rack and pin, and to tell you the truth, it wasent worth it for that one stupid lil drift, Maybe on a course its fun, but on the road its childish and foolish, no offence to you ppl who love the sport/thrill, but maybe on a course.  Not many ppl who want to drift have enought money to just be like "Hey the whole side of my car is smashed in, oh well, ill just get a new car" Me messing up my suspention was a good thing in my eyes, it made me wake up and notice the pointlessness of drifting, i say stay with grip, if your on the course, and stay to driving safe, well im sorry to ramble, thats just what i think

ruf

07-25-2002, 02:50 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AKADriver @ July 25 2002,2:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The sliding done on dirt ovals really doesn't have much to do with what they're talking about. Rally drivers do it, too. In those low-traction situations they'd rather keep up their momentum around the corner than cut a perfect line. Before the days of modern tires it was common to see this sort of driving in EVERY form of motorsports with turns. Even today it's technically fastest to drive just beyond the limit of adhesion with a slight slip angle.

Is it drifting in the technical sense? Yes.

What does it have to do with this modern drift culture? Not a damned thing.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Thank you. Saved me the trouble.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

ruf

07-25-2002, 02:52 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oni @ July 25 2002,3:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i felt like, hey ill put in my 2 cents, from what i hear only 3% of the turns on a coruse are faster if you drift them</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
3%? hahahahaha. What a joke. Putting that kind of number on something totally unquantifiable. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

edit: No offense intended. You're just passing along what you've heard.

Yoshi

07-25-2002, 03:08 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Starlin @ July 25 2002,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to burst anybody's bubble, but: Drifting didn't begin in Japan. It wasn't even perfected there!
Any of you ever watch Sprint car racing on a dirt track? They been doing this for decades, arround 180 degree corners even. hell I even watched guys dirt-tracking on Harleys drifting on ESPN2 a couple nights ago. Now that is skill.
Just thought I'd point that out.
Starlin</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
This is that adding more fuel to the fire thing I was talking about... thanks for proving you don't even know what drifting is.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

coolerow

07-25-2002, 03:13 PM

What's wrong with you people? Theres only a few people in here that can say this kinda stuff cause theyve had experience in racing(autoX, track, etc.). All the rest of you guys shouldnt even be flammin the "newbies" cause youre no different then they are. Once you hear one guy start to flame someone, the rest of the board goes along for the ride.

The new people on the board arent the ones that tick me off, its the older members that talk like theyre RACING GODS when all they do is play their Playstation at home. Not saying every older member is like that but [email protected]!, it's pretty damn close!

HippoSleek

07-25-2002, 04:39 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (coolerow @ July 25 2002,4:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The new people on the board arent the ones that tick me off, its the older members that talk like theyre RACING GODS when all they do is play their Playstation at home. Not saying every older member is like that but [email protected]!, it's pretty damn close!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
... as compared to all the "Drift Kings" we have around here... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>   <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>   <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Griffon2k

07-25-2002, 06:05 PM

There goes HippoSleek assuming that things are the same everywhere else as they are in his neck of the woods...

Auto culture in Japan is such that some people there feel comfortable putting a beautiful or expensive car like an RX-7 in a drift or drag event where they could possibly damage that expensive car....

Auto culture in America is such that some people do not feel comfortable putting a beautiful or expensive car like an RX-7 in a drift or drag event where they could possibly damage that expensive car...hell we don't get enough of RX-7's, Skylines, or Silvia's to repair the ones that are here without having to import parts from Japan...why would we put them in competition?? So yes Americans are known for (I am so sick of this word) RICE as you would say HippoSleek. The Japanese on the other hand are far from it. Have you ever seen any of them try to make their cars USDM to win in a show like HIN? Probably not.....

Yet again the infamous HippoSleek has assumed something that is not true in all cases, something that is relative to nationality and culture and availability of resources....and hence, has made an ASS out of himself........

Okay, someone can close the posts now, I think we're done here......

NervGS

07-25-2002, 07:43 PM

Lemme give this one more shot...  In reply to Hipposleak's post...

2.  Please, don't assume.  Come out here, live for a few months/years, learn about it and experience it.

3.  Carpet queen=rice?  Fellow poster...  Why don't you take a flight out here one day?  Goto touge or a track event.  D-1 is going on, its coming to Ebisu next month, have you heard of that?  Sponsored cars, non-sponsored cars are featured in that, sporting 18's, your $5000 paint jobs, kits, etc...  And yes, these are cars that are featured in magazines, TAS, and you can see occasionally driving around.  It takes skill to initiate a drift with 18's, I dunno about you, but not everyone needs 16's or lower to bust them.

4.  Wow...  You are nice guy...  To go out and make fun of my mother would be so immature.  Thank you.

5.  I'm trying to compare car culture in Japan to some person who only knows it through watching videos, reading it on the internet, etc.  You ASSUME you know about it, but through your writing, you truely do not.

8.  Exactly, every drifting video you've seen...  Come out here, I will take you places, then you can see what its all about.  Once again, without never being here, you assume.  Car culture is different out here, its not as personal as in the US.  Beaters are preferred just because of the sole fact they are beaters, however, most people do like to take their nice cars out too...

Like almost everyother gaijin I know thats into Japan and is learning about it, you assume, in this case, the car culture.  Please, don't be stupid, and think about what you are going to post.

-glenn

xhdriver

07-26-2002, 12:38 AM

why does everyone get their panties in a bunch? why cant people have fun in their 4 door 88 civic with a huge wing and nozzle lights glowing while they "ass drag" around thier local pre school, while they watch how dope option2 is on their headrest tv, without someone who thinks they are a "true enthusiast" or "have been in it way longer", talks shit cause they are just "ricer newbs".  just chill dogz. word

HippoSleek

07-26-2002, 08:17 AM

Nerv

3)  The point was merely that a lot of cars representing "drift style" that will never drift.  Over here, we call that rice.  By all accounts but yours, you have poseurs over there too.

5-6)  I get a lot of my info from people I know (non-gaijin citizens or former longtime residents and tourists) - but from what I think are good insightful sources.  If I were there for two years myself, I would have less knowledge.  By their acconts, recorded and verbal, there are some fakers out there.  This, however, was merely to show that I've not seen any videos of professional or underground events where showcars (as seen in mags, internet, TAS, Option videos) were being pushed.

I process what I hear from first hand accounts - there is very little assumption on my part.  I appreciate your point of view, but I will continue to trust people I have known and who have earned it.  If they say it's got a ricey component, I believe them.

Griff:
You've got a hard-on for me don't you?  You just can't stop spewing sh!t in my general direction.  I'll give you one more thread to make some imbicilic remark, then I'll just officially quit responding to you as being a waste of time.

1)  So?  This says nothing about carpet queen wannabes.  And, BS.  I saw an RX-7 totalled at a track last month.  I have no clue what you are getting at w/ replacement parts?  Again, it says nothing about the number of poseurs out there.  Wrong - people fake the funk (e.g., rice) all over the world.  BS:  Yes - check out the Japanese lowrider scene.
2)  I can't believe you are smart enough to remember to breathe... it's a shame really.  

Next time you attempt to address me in a discussion, please say something useful in the overall discussion or address the points I've made.  Otherwise, your rants are just personal attacks that don't really justify a response.

DrDubbleB

07-26-2002, 11:47 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ July 25 2002,10:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1) So? This says nothing about carpet queen wannabes. And, BS. I saw an RX-7 totalled at a track last month. I have no clue what you are getting at w/ replacement parts? Again, it says nothing about the number of poseurs out there. Wrong - people fake the funk (e.g., rice) all over the world. BS: Yes - check out the Japanese lowrider scene.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
You're slightly unclear in your statement here.  If you're saying that because you saw an RX-7 totalled at the track last month, he is a wannabe, someone should slap you.  Anyone that pushes their car to it's absolute limits at the track is going to wreck it eventually, it's just the nature of the sport.  Maybe I misunderstood your statement though.

I wasn't going to comment on anything else in this thread, I was just going to spectate, but seeing that, I had to say something.

Kreator

07-26-2002, 12:08 PM

I can't believe i just read it all....

miata_man

07-26-2002, 01:37 PM

you guys are wasting precious bandwidth on this stupid thread. Let's end this argument now. The winner is:

tnord's POV

because he is a fellow Miata man, and Miata men are brilliant.

Yoshi

07-26-2002, 01:51 PM

Jesus, okay this thread officially needs to be closed.

There are no winners here, only losers.
We fight and bicker and argue over stupid shit.  We're all 240 owners, and should all be on the same side.  

I have a differing POV that others. so does tnord, so does hippo so does everyone....

We need to stop this petty shit. period.

...and miata man, good god man, if you get any closer to tnord's ass you'll be up to your ears... if you wanna suck up, do it in PM.

-=Moderator Please Close This Thead ASAP=-

Yosho

07-26-2002, 03:08 PM

Exactly Yoshi...

Everyone should just focus on what they love about cars and leave it at that.  

I am a grip driver.  Grip drivers have little credibility "educating" new drifters... leave that to the experienced drifters who seem to (shock) actually care about what happens with their side of the hobby.  If anyone can reach new drifters and help them in the right direction it'll be these people (not us).

HippoSleek

07-26-2002, 03:26 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DrDubbleB @ July 26 2002,12:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ July 25 2002,10:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1) So? This says nothing about carpet queen wannabes. And, BS. I saw an RX-7 totalled at a track last month. I have no clue what you are getting at w/ replacement parts? Again, it says nothing about the number of poseurs out there. Wrong - people fake the funk (e.g., rice) all over the world. BS: Yes - check out the Japanese lowrider scene.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
You're slightly unclear in your statement here. If you're saying that because you saw an RX-7 totalled at the track last month, he is a wannabe, someone should slap you. Anyone that pushes their car to it's absolute limits at the track is going to wreck it eventually, it's just the nature of the sport. Maybe I misunderstood your statement though.

I wasn't going to comment on anything else in this thread, I was just going to spectate, but seeing that, I had to say something.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
err sorry - I meant to imply that "American car culture" isn't afraid of putting them on a track and taking them home on a rollback to refute whozit's point. I've seen balled up FDs, FDs that caught fire and burned to the ground, and more FC ITS cars than I'd have guessed rolled out of the factory - all being used at the track.

...but I should maybe be slapped anyway... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':satisfied:'>

*edit*
I agree this dispute is stale.  Everytime I think we have about reached a point where everyone wants to drop it, another wave rolls in and it comes up - and invariably the same 5 people line up to defend/malign it.

miata_man - travis is secretly eyeing ITRs behind your back.

Mark
-who's shopping for something w/ a B6 or BP

miata_man

07-26-2002, 03:59 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jesus, okay this thread officially needs to be closed.

There are no winners here, only losers.
We fight and bicker and argue over stupid shit.  We're all 240 owners, and should all be on the same side.  

I have a differing POV that others. so does tnord, so does hippo so does everyone....

We need to stop this petty shit. period.

...and miata man, good god man, if you get any closer to tnord's ass you'll be up to your ears... if you wanna suck up, do it in PM.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

*sigh* <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'> you are right Yoshi. Miata men are very ignorant and love the ass.... I'm just a lonely gay Miata man in denial about his sexual preference. I'm sorry.

tnord

07-26-2002, 05:23 PM

let's just go at it old school..........take it outside....and fight. or........i got a better idea, let's have the "drifters" try and beat us at our game (track driving), and we'll try  and beat them at theirs. no need.......i know how it'll come out anyway. drifters obviously have no skill what-so-ever in anything. they are the sloped-brow comparisons to us road racers. and you show car guys.....why don't you build a football stadium, and not let anybody play in it. because that's exactly what you're doing with cars. and you/us road racers. how financially intelligent are we? aren't we the people that buy race cars before furniture for our homes/apartments. let's see.....what group have i left out? oh yeah, you drag race guys. seriously, if you pride yourself on something that a 9 yr old can do.......that's fine by me.

in case you haven't noticed, i've tried to offend every possible group of people in order for this thread to turn into an all out melee and hopefully get locked.

btw........i'm looking at an ITR for a daily driver, the Spec Miata is still the desired competition car.

Yoshi

07-26-2002, 06:36 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (miata_man @ July 26 2002,2:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jesus, okay this thread officially needs to be closed.

There are no winners here, only losers.
We fight and bicker and argue over stupid shit. We're all 240 owners, and should all be on the same side.

I have a differing POV that others. so does tnord, so does hippo so does everyone....

We need to stop this petty shit. period.

...and miata man, good god man, if you get any closer to tnord's ass you'll be up to your ears... if you wanna suck up, do it in PM.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

*sigh* <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'> you are right Yoshi. Miata men are very ignorant and love the ass.... I'm just a lonely gay Miata man in denial about his sexual preference. I'm sorry.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hey that was a great attempt at sarcasm except for my total lack of homosexual reference... but hey whatever, take it however you feel comfortable.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

AceInHole

07-27-2002, 10:55 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sniper-X @ July 22 2002,06:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know, it wasn't even half a year ago maybe that on this board, once a topic about drifting came up ALOT OF PEOPLE groaned and called for a locked topic. Today, there are quite a few topics on drifting and everyone's jumping into the conversation now. What elements have changed so much in so little time that now it's a hot topic? Any theories?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Answer to all of the above:  I left to go work on my car.

AceInHole

07-27-2002, 11:03 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 25 2002,7:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">let's just go at it old school..........take it outside....and fight. or........i got a better idea, let's have the "drifters" try and beat us at our game (track driving), and we'll try and beat them at theirs. no need.......i know how it'll come out anyway. drifters obviously have no skill what-so-ever in anything. they are the sloped-brow comparisons to us road racers.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what about guys who do both??

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and you show car guys.....why don't you build a football stadium, and not let anybody play in it. because that's exactly what you're doing with cars.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
dude... those handicapped at the art of getting girls NEED some sort of handicap.  no need to get upset over others just trying too hard to get some ass.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> and you/us road racers. how financially intelligent are we? aren't we the people that buy race cars before furniture for our homes/apartments.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yeah but once i get the Bride seats I'll just bolt my old seats to a couple planks of wood... viola! instant recliner!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> let's see.....what group have i left out? oh yeah, you drag race guys. seriously, if you pride yourself on something that a 9 yr old can do.......that's fine by me. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
doh.... u got it backwards.  9 yr olds drive those cars that can only go two directions: forward and reverse/ left.  they end up always crashing into stuff..... hmm..... nascar anyone?
drag racers are more of those guys that talk about how much they can bench but can't fight and can't do sports.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in case you haven't noticed, i've tried to offend every possible group of people in order for this thread to turn into an all out melee and hopefully get locked. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
you haven't tried very hard.... we expect more from you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">btw........i'm looking at an ITR for a daily driver, the Spec Miata is still the desired competition car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
no FC??  No S13??