Subframe spacer group buy #2

[Toso]

I'm putting together a second group buy on alminum subframe bushing spacers. They were orginally made for the Z32 but since the 240SX shares the same subframe as the Z32, we can also use them. I have them on my 98 S14. They are awsome to say the least. It took about 30 minutes to install. The car feels stiffer, and the wheels seem to stay planted quite a bit better. The spacers are made by Greg Dupree. Some of you may know him as the best Z mechanic in California if not anywhere. They usualy sell for $80 plus shipping but If I can get at least 10 people to jump in, I can get them at $70 shipped.

This is how Greg Dupree describes them,

'What the spacers do is preload the stock rubber bushings so the body does not float separately from the subframe. Stock, the body floats about an inch before the suspension does anything.

One of the reasons Zs wheel hop is because the sub frame is mounted loosely causing the sub frame to bounce up and down.

Preloading the stock bushings results in much more responsive handling and also greatly reduces wheel hop. Also by retaining the stock rubber mounts you're still Isolating noise and vibration, verses replacing them with solid aluminum or delrin.

This is a simple, do-it-yourself mod that will take less then an hour to install with a
Floor jack, a 14mm and 17mm socket and ratchet.

This simple mod will accomplish the same thing the expensive sub frame bushings do.
And without having to go through the hassle or expense of removing the subframe <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>'

They are available in anodized red or blue.


http://worldenterprises.org/specialty-z/suspensionmod.jpg

Here are 2 pics of them installed on my 98 240SX.


http://www.turboimport.com/misc/subframes14a.jpg

http://www.turboimport.com/misc/subframes14b.jpg

As of today, the buy is open and I'll be closing it on Wednesday, July 31.

I will also be bringing a few sets to the 240SX convention and track event. If you buy them then and there is time, I will install them for you at the track.

If you have any questions or you would like to get in on the buy, I can be reached at [email protected] or my cell phone at (714) 328-6977. Thanks for you interest

Aaron Creollo

[Yosho]

I haven't installed these yet (as I don't even have an S13 yet) but I can say that the last group buy was the fastest most trouble free GB I've ever joined. &nbsp;Toso (Aaron) was extreemly fast and let me know every step of the way what was going on. &nbsp;The spacers appear very well made and should do the job nicely. &nbsp;For anyone considering this GB, I give 2 thumbs up.

[Toso]

Thanks alot. I just hope I can get more of the 240SX guys to try these out. &nbsp;They really do make a huge difference. &nbsp;Everyone that I talked to after the last GB were pretty happy with them.

Aaron Creollo

[yellowbulbs]

so what does this do? prevent wheel hop?

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (yellowbulbs @ July 10 2002,12:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so what does this do? prevent wheel hop?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Yes, it prevents wheel hop. &nbsp;The rear will feel stiffer as well. But not too stiff. &nbsp;The subframe bushings are still intact so there is still some damping affect. But it does get rid of the rear subframes tendancy to 'float'.

Aaron Creollo

[yellowbulbs]

my car is already to stiff with the coilovers on there.
if i get it any stiffer my neck will break

[Toso]

It will be a bit stiffer with the spacers installed. What coilovers are you running? We installed them on my friends S13 with Tien coilovers. &nbsp;He doesnt think its too harsh. &nbsp;IMHO its worth a little more stiffness to get rid of the wheel hop and 'floating' rear subframe. &nbsp;Where are you located btw? If you're in Southern California we can install them on your car and you can see how you like them.

Aaron Creollo

[Toso]

I just got off the phone with they guy who I'm doing this all through. &nbsp;He told me that black is now available along with the red and blue. &nbsp;He also said that the black is even better looking than the reds and blues.

I am also willing to make another deal with local guys. &nbsp;I can install them for you. &nbsp;I live in the city of Orange. &nbsp;If you email me and are willing to drive out, I will try to schedule a time to install them for you.

Aaron Creollo

[Dousan_PG]

Hey,

i got tein HE coilovers (8/6 springrate) and its not bad at all. I had the spacers on before the coilovers too (with my stock suspension), and that included a drive up to canada (from southern california) and it was fine. i didnt have any harshness at all. i was very comfortable, and so was my girlfriend. no complaints at all.

once i installed the coilovers (about a month later), sway bars and TC rods, it hasnt been unbearable at all. And i have the damper to pretty stiff most of the time. It has reduced my wheel hop and i have been very pleased with them. &nbsp;i will really know when i partake in the 240sx convention this month too. &nbsp;

aaron creollo rode in my car a few times and was quite surprised as well, he expected it much stiffer too, which it was not. quite "comfortable" (as comfortalbe as an 8/6 rate coilover can get).


email me (or post here) if you have any qs: [email protected]

aaron suarez (not to be confused with aaron creollo)

[davies2k]

Hello,
I would like to order a set in RED if you have them. &nbsp;I am with SpeedtrialUSA and will be at the Track day for the Convention. &nbsp;Can you bring a set that day. &nbsp;How would you prefer payment.

Thanks
David N.

[lavotski]

I'll take a set in red. &nbsp;keep me posted

[Toso]

I dont always get a chance to check in here. &nbsp;You will get a much faster response if you email. &nbsp;I did reply to both lavotski and davies2k though.

Aaron Creollo

[MarketPlayer]

I am going to try and replace all of the rubber bushings on my car, and wonder if those spacers will work w/ aftermarket bushings? &nbsp;If so then i am in for a set of black ones shipped to orlando! 90 fastback!

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MarketPlayer @ July 10 2002,6:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am going to try and replace all of the rubber bushings on my car, and wonder if those spacers will work w/ aftermarket bushings? If so then i am in for a set of black ones shipped to orlando! 90 fastback!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I've never heard of anyone using the spacers after putting in aftermaket bushings. I dont see why it wouldnt work. It just might be overkill. I would not recomment installing them if you are putting in aluminum bushings though. I'll check with the guy I'm doing this through.

Aaron Creollo

[MarketPlayer]

NO! &nbsp;They would be regular aftermarket bushings, or do you think i would be better off w/ oem new ones and the spacer! &nbsp;Thanks for being honest about the overkill!

-zac

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MarketPlayer @ July 10 2002,7:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO! They would be regular aftermarket bushings, or do you think i would be better off w/ oem new ones and the spacer! Thanks for being honest about the overkill!

-zac</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'm not really sure how they compare to aftermarket poly bushings. I have heard that the spacers and OEM are not as harsh. &nbsp;But since I havent felt them both, I dont know what to believe. I'll call Greg tommorrow and get his opinion on it, then I'll post back here.

Aaron Creollo

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toso @ July 11 2002,12:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MarketPlayer @ July 10 2002,7:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO! They would be regular aftermarket bushings, or do you think i would be better off w/ oem new ones and the spacer! Thanks for being honest about the overkill!

-zac</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'm not really sure how they compare to aftermarket poly bushings. I have heard that the spacers and OEM are not as harsh. But since I havent felt them both, I dont know what to believe. I'll call Greg tommorrow and get his opinion on it, then I'll post back here.

Aaron Creollo</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I just talked to Greg. He said that putting in aftermarket bushings such as the Suspention Techniques Poly bushings, gets rid of the need for the spacers. &nbsp;You will only need the spacers if you have OEM bushings.

Aaron Creollo

[MarketPlayer]

dude you are fucking awsome! &nbsp;Just for your honesty I will take a set of black ones. &nbsp;Just tell me what i need to do in order to have them shipped out. &nbsp;I will defenately be able to pay you next friday, but possibly earlier. &nbsp;Just let me know!

-zac

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MarketPlayer @ July 12 2002,12:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dude you are fucking awsome! Just for your honesty I will take a set of black ones. Just tell me what i need to do in order to have them shipped out. I will defenately be able to pay you next friday, but possibly earlier. Just let me know!

-zac</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Thanks, I wouldnt lie to anyone to sell these things. I just want people to give them a try. Shoot me an email with your shipping info and I'll get you on the list. &nbsp;As long as I get the money by July 31, it wont be a problem.

Aaron Creollo

[TheTimanator]

I would like a set in Black! &nbsp;Just email me with payment options.

[sykikchimp]

would these spacers cause extra wear on the oem rubber bushings that might make them need replacing sooner? (probably doesn't matter if the rear bushings aren't liquid filled.. )

Thanks

edit - Can you give us any tips on installation?

edit2 - Is it 2 or 4 spacers?

[bbp]

I bought a set from Aarron a month or so ago. &nbsp;They are extremely easy to install if you have 2 jack stands and a floor jack. &nbsp;You put the rear up in the air, support the subframe with the jack and begin to install the aluminum pieces. &nbsp;You can see the spacer compress the bushing as everything tightens up. &nbsp;I can't see how these would wear out the stock bushing.

Aaron was very straight forward and was honest in the transaction. &nbsp;

They are a cheap and effective mod!

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ July 12 2002,2:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">would these spacers cause extra wear on the oem rubber bushings that might make them need replacing sooner? (probably doesn't matter if the rear bushings aren't liquid filled.. )

Thanks

edit - Can you give us any tips on installation?

edit2 - Is it 2 or 4 spacers?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The kits come with instructions including torque specs. &nbsp;BBQ did a good job of describing installation. And if you had problems, you could always call or email me and I'll walk you through it.

As to the wear on the bushings. &nbsp;The way the bushings fail is to wear through and leak out. &nbsp;There are are different opinions on what the spacers will do. There have been people that have argued that they will accelerate the wear and cause the bushings to burst. I talked to Greg about it, he said that if anything it will prolong the life of the bushing but not letting it expand and contract by such large amounts. &nbsp;He could describe it much better than I could and it all made sense. He also added that he's sold over 200 sets of them and personaly installed over 50. &nbsp;The only failures he's seen are in ones where the bushing was already worn. &nbsp;Meaning, it was on its last leg anyways and that you really cant say that the spacer accelerated it. I for one, believe that anything you do to modify your car will cause the car to wear 'differently', and usualy for the worse. &nbsp;You have to accept that when it comes to mods. &nbsp;The decision should be whether the added wear is worth what you gain.

Ok, now that I've got the long winded explanination out of the way... I dont think it will hurt a thing! Oh yeah, its 4 spacers per set. One for each bushing.

Aaron Creollo

[sykikchimp]

damn.. I'm in. &nbsp;you will have email soon. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

thanks bbp - your testimonial was helpful.

[gh6o6]

ok im interested in these but what im concerned about it the installation - i know its "easy" but i dont always trust myself

im fairly mechanically inclined and i do alot of my stuff myself but imalways worried ill break something so does anyone have something i should know (like your car will fall apart if you dont tighten the nuts correctly)

[Dousan_PG]

gh6o6
we did it yesterday. you cant' really mess up, its soooo easy. if you can put on your shift knob, you can do this. shift knob difficulty: 1
subframe: 2.5

only trouble: getting the bolt off. depending on your car's years, a little wd-10 and some elbow grease will do it. its VERY easy.

going slow, took about 45 mins
fast, can be done in 15-20 mins

it has directions too. very simple and has all your info. torque rates and everything. very straightforward


aaron suarez (not to be confused with aaron creollo)

[ny_jee]

Just had mine installed yesterday, quite a noticable mod for the price. &nbsp;Haven't taken any hard turns yet, but I can feel it stick at launching and coming out of a corner. &nbsp;I'd highly recommend them. &nbsp;Big thanx to BOTH Aaron that put them on!

-Nicky

[Toso]

Quick unrelated update....

Last night I totaled my S14. &nbsp;I may be a bit slower in replying while I'm out of the office taking care of insuarnce stuff. I have a new understanding of how damn bad the S14 needs a rear sway bar! Understeered into a curb. Both air bags deployed and the throttle stuck open. Gonna go over it today. Hope I can get some pics to share. &nbsp;It was unreal where my car ended up. &nbsp;Anyone who knows skateboarding will understand this position. It came back around and got stuck on the curb facing outwards. Looked like a backside lipslide. Oh well. Life goes on. I'm just happy no one was hurt. I hope you can all understand the one to two days I may be behind.

Aaron Creollo

[mbmbmb23]

Aaron, sorry about your car. &nbsp;You selling your Limited slip? (if you have one)


-m

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (mbmbmb23 @ July 15 2002,10:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aaron, sorry about your car. You selling your Limited slip? (if you have one)


-m</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I dont have a VLSD. Here's a link to the stuff I have for sale right now.

(shameless plug)

http://www.zilvia.net/f....t=12920 (http://www.zilvia.net/f/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=4;t=12920)

[Yosho]

Wow, that's terrible... like you said though, at least no one was hurt. &nbsp;Are you going to get another 240sx as a replacement? &nbsp;Maybe an S13 this time?

[xYourLocal240sx]

i'll take some red ones <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yosho @ July 17 2002,12:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, that's terrible... like you said though, at least no one was hurt. Are you going to get another 240sx as a replacement? Maybe an S13 this time?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'm actually thinking either an AE86 or a Mazda 323 GTX. &nbsp;Kinda leaning towards the Toyota though.

[davies2k]

sorry to hear the passing of the S14, &nbsp;Does this mean you'll be driving an AE86 to the 240 convention at willow springs? &nbsp;Aaron I still need to pay/pickup the spacers from you. &nbsp;I have a business at the block of Orange do you ever go by there? &nbsp;Possibly we can arrange to meet there.
Best Regards,
David N.

[Yosho]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toso @ July 17 2002,10:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yosho @ July 17 2002,12:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, that's terrible... like you said though, at least no one was hurt. Are you going to get another 240sx as a replacement? Maybe an S13 this time?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'm actually thinking either an AE86 or a Mazda 323 GTX. Kinda leaning towards the Toyota though.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Cool, both are very nice choices. &nbsp;More support for the AE86 and they're a little easier to find in good shape.

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (davies2k @ July 18 2002,01:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">sorry to hear the passing of the S14, Does this mean you'll be driving an AE86 to the 240 convention at willow springs? Aaron I still need to pay/pickup the spacers from you. I have a business at the block of Orange do you ever go by there? Possibly we can arrange to meet there.
Best Regards,
David N.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I will still be going to the convention to deliver spacers. &nbsp;But I probably wont have a car yet. I do live very near the Block so we can work something out that way too. I will probably be picking up a batch of spacers early next week. &nbsp;So if anyone wants to pick up spacers at the convention, please send me your money for them. I may bring some extra sets as well. And if there is time and a jack and jack stands, I can install them for you at the track. Only takes me about 30 minutes. &nbsp;Thanks for all kind words and understanding everyone.

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo

[davies2k]

Perfect. Can you give me a buzz when you pick up the first batch and we'll meet on the weekend. &nbsp;I would rather have them on the car b4 the track day since it'll be over 100 degrees and would hate to be crawliing under a car on the hot tarmac.
David

[gh6o6]

if i pay now - will they be shipped upon receiving payment?
are we at 10 buyers yet?

[Jdm_Silvia]

I'll send you the money out tommorow. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (gh6o6 @ July 18 2002,5:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if i pay now - will they be shipped upon receiving payment?
are we at 10 buyers yet?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The spacers will be shipped within a week of the group buy closing on July 31. I will be bringing spacers to the 240 convention for those that have paid and have told me they want them delivered there. I will also try to bring a few extra sets for anyone who wants to pay there.

Aaron 'the 240 less' Creollo

[gh6o6]

im in for a set in black

[Toso]

Please email me if you want in. I dont always get a chance to check the board and I may miss it.

***Important Info***

I will be picking up a batch in the next few days. &nbsp;This is to cover people picking them up during the convention days. &nbsp;I should have extras to sell at the track day but I cant guarentee that I will have enough. &nbsp;To be assured that you get what you want, you should get in contact with me today. Your spacers must be paid for before I can confirm that you will get them during the convention. &nbsp;Any spacers not picked up during the convention will be shipped with the rest at the end of buy. &nbsp;Also, if you want them installed, please get in contact with me and plan a time to do it. It will make my life much easier as the track day may be a very busy day. &nbsp;Please feel free to email me any questions you might have. &nbsp;Thanks again everybody.

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo
[email protected]

[Dousan_PG]

so,what have been everyone's thoughts on this? i have them on mine and think they are the greatest, anyone else have some feedback/comments?

[rrx]

rear feels more planted and solid.

there's a driveway that i used to be able to get up pretty easily but now i need to do a little burnout to get up the driveway from having too stiff of a rear end.

in the way of susp. mods on an s14 i have:
apex coilovers.
front stb.
tension rods.
f+r whiteline swaybars on the softest settings.
and the subframe spacers.

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rrx @ July 25 2002,5:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">rear feels more planted and solid.

there's a driveway that i used to be able to get up pretty easily but now i need to do a little burnout to get up the driveway from having too stiff of a rear end.

in the way of susp. mods on an s14 i have:
apex coilovers.
front stb.
tension rods.
f+r whiteline swaybars on the softest settings.
and the subframe spacers.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Can you explain what you mean by doing a little burnout to get up a driveway? I'm not sure how the rear end would cause you to have to change how you go up driveways.

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo

[rrx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toso @ July 25 2002,6:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rrx @ July 25 2002,5:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">rear feels more planted and solid.

there's a driveway that i used to be able to get up pretty easily but now i need to do a little burnout to get up the driveway from having too stiff of a rear end.

in the way of susp. mods on an s14 i have:
apex coilovers.
front stb.
tension rods.
f+r whiteline swaybars on the softest settings.
and the subframe spacers.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Can you explain what you mean by doing a little burnout to get up a driveway? I'm not sure how the rear end would cause you to have to change how you go up driveways.

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i go up a driveway at an angle to avoid scraping. when i do that, both sides of the rear now get lifted ever so slightly off the ground causing a lost in traction. so i've been spinning the tires a little bit to get up the driveway.

[95Blue240sx]

where can we go after this group buy has ended? &nbsp;any site or Greg Dupree's email. &nbsp;or someone who can put us in contact with him.

[Toso]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95Blue240sx @ July 26 2002,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">where can we go after this group buy has ended? any site or Greg Dupree's email. or someone who can put us in contact with him.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
You can always get in touch with me, [email protected] or you can email Greg Dupree or call his shop

Aaron Creollo
[email protected]
yahoo messanger - toso13
aim - stormbringer313

Greg Dupree
[email protected]
(818) 703-6272

[Toso]

Just wanted to let anyone who might be interested know that this buy will be closing this wednesday on July 31. If you want in you only have a couple of days left.

I'd also like to thank everyone who picked up a set at the convention. Hope you all liked them on the track.

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo

[sykikchimp]

Have these gone out yet?

[Toso]

I am picking parts up tonight and will be shipping them out over the next few days. They should all have shipped by Tuesday. I have a ton of them to ship! When the sets go out, I will shoot you an email with your tracking number. Hope you all enjoy them. I will still be able to get them in the future, but the price will be a little bit more. Thanks for all your support guys.

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo

[Toso]

Just wanted to thank everyone that participated. All parts are now shipped. Let me know if you havent gotten a tracking number from me. Thanks guys!

Aaron 'the 240less' Creollo