WTF is up with schools these days?

[s14dr1ft3r]

First off, allow me to mention that I am a graduate of Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado which as you all probably knowm was the location of an unfortunate hostage situation a couple weeks ago. I graduated in 97 and during that time, I felt that my school was a more safe place to be than my own house. Bailey is a fairly remote place in the foothills of Colorado so I just assumed it would be safe. WTF has happened to schools in 9 years? I never thought security measures such as metal detectors and campus police would become a necessity even in the most remote schools where everybody knows each other. What is everyone's opinion on this? Am I just naive because of where I went to school? Did/Does anyone feel unsafe in their own high school?

[TipStylez]

Parents dont know how to raise kids for shit these days.

They need to woop their kids ass, and teach their kid how to woop ass. So they dont use guns, rather then have the normal school field fist fight.

Parents these days are yelling at their kids, and expecting them to be the greatest person in the world when they grow up, rather then accepting who they are NOW...

[exitspeed]

The type of stuff that happens now-a-days, just didn't happen when I was in school. I realyl don't get it. It's not like these kids lives are getting more difficult. In fact I think it's a lot easier.

[vanish1]

i agree with TipStylez, parents need to start hitting their kids again. Hell when i was younger my mom used to beat my ass, I now realize and appreciate how important it was.

[HalveBlue]

I'm afraid that there's a deep psychosis that kids suffer from these days. I don't know if it's because they have too much times on their hands or because parents are to linient these days but I feel that and we're growing more and more alienated as a society.

It doesn't seem like kids these days have a realistic understanding of the world and they don't know how they fit in, what their part is in our society.

A lot of young people don't seem to have a perspective on cause and consequence. Don't get me wrong, everyone makes mistakes. But how can you learn from your mistakes if you never really have to face the consequences?

What makes kids these days feel it's alright to walk into a school and start shooting people?

It seems like individuality is always heralded as some sort golden value that we should all strive to meet, yet many of these kids seem to be social outcasts that have a lot of pent up rage and anger. Where does that come from? It's even more puzzling to me because a lot of these kids don't come from severly underpriviledged environments.

Maybe I don't have a lot of room to talk because, after all, I am part of the "Columbine Generation", but it seems like parents and society are failing more and more at creating productive members to society that have a proper perspective on life.

[SochBAT]

Yea, i got beat alot when i was a kid. One day, i had gotten into 3 fights in elementary school. When i got home, i looked like a tiger.

disciplined, but i knew not to overstep my boundries, and i've become a more well rounded person.

Physical is always better than mental.

[Yuri]

While I was in highschool, from fall 1995 to spring 1999, the only thing I recall happening was a student shooting another in the head at his house, but no real violence at school, thankfully.
However, we did have some things that happened to classmates after graduation.

I present to you, our prom queen:

RICHLAND CENTER, WIS.: Judge won't dismiss charges in newborn's death
BY TODD RICHMOND
Associated Press

RICHLAND CENTER, Wis. — A judge Tuesday refused to dismiss charges of
reckless homicide and hiding a corpse against a woman accused of letting her
newborn baby die and hiding the body in a storage bin.

But Richland County Circuit Judge Edward Leineweber put off ruling on
prosecutors' motion to admit evidence related an the earlier death of another
infant prosecutors say Kristin Scott also secretly gave birth to and concealed
in a storage bin.

District Attorney Andrew Sharp wanted to admit testimony at trial that Scott
covered up both pregnancies and drank as much as a 12-pack of beer a night
while carrying the second child because she was planning to kill the baby or
let it die to avoid the repercussions.

"It just sheds light on what her intent toward the child was," Sharp said.

Scott's attorney, Rose Oliveto, countered the testimony amounts to a character
attack and as such is inadmissible under state statutes.

Leineweber set Scott's trial date for Feb. 23, moving a case that shocked
Richland County this past summer closer to a resolution.

Scott's parents called police in June after they discovered the remains of a
baby in a storage tub she left at their house in Byrd's Creek days after she
moved to Texas.

Prosecutors said she confessed to secretly giving birth in January to a baby
girl at her parents' house. They said she didn't attend to the baby and let it
die, although she was a trained nursing assistant.

Prosecutors also said Scott confessed to secretly giving birth to a stillborn
baby at her parents' home in April 2001 and carrying that baby around in a
plastic storage tub.

Scott was charged in the death of the baby prosecutors say she delivered in
January. She also faces a charge of concealing the death of the stillborn baby
in 2001. Leineweber did not rule on Oliveto's request to dismiss the
concealment charge.

Oliveto unsuccessfully argued Tuesday that Leineweber should dismiss the
reckless homicide charge because it demands an overt act. None of the state's
evidence shows Scott caused the baby girl's death, she said.

Sharp argued Scott's inaction was grounds enough for the charge.

"She was responsible for the child," Sharp said.

Leineweber agreed, saying a failure to act can create the risk of great bodily
harm or death.

Oliveto argued the charge of hiding a corpse should be thrown out, too.
Prosecutors haven't shown any evidence that Scott was trying to avoid
detection, she said. Leineweber disagreed.

"Anyone knows it's wrong for a mother to do that," the judge said.

The attorneys spent most of the daylong hearing sparring over whether evidence
connected to the deaths of both babies should be admitted at trial.

According to court filings, the father of the baby born in 2001 said Scott lied
to him throughout the pregnancy. Sharp said she told the father the wrong due
dates, that the baby was in the hospital and then told him she was never
pregnant.

The father of the second child said Scott denied she was pregnant and drank
with him on a regular basis, Sharp said.

One of Scott's co-workers at Ernie's Bar & Grill said Scott drank with him six
nights a week, sometimes as much as a 12-pack of beer in one night, according
to court filings.

The court filings also point to Scott's confession to police, during which she
said the pregnancies would have caused problems and that she drank to convince
people she wasn't pregnant.

Sharp said the evidence establishes a pattern of behavior.

Oliveto bristled at that.

"There isn't any plan or scheme," she said. "These are two separate
pregnancies, two periods of time far apart."

Leineweber said he would rule on admitting the evidence by Feb. 11.

He handed an outline to the attorneys indicating he was leaning toward barring
evidence that showed Scott drank and didn't seek prenatal care.

The judge also rejected Oliveto's request to move Scott's trial to a different
county. Oliveto had argued publicity about the case was overwhelming and
prejudicial. The judge said the coverage has been accurate and a jury doesn't
need to be ignorant of all the facts to render an impartial verdict.

[Brian]

Smack the shit out of your children.
That will teach them.

No, no sarcasm this time from me.

[VROOOM]

i graduated from lakewood high(long beach area) in 1996. we had race riots, stabbings, drive by's, rape all kinds of shit. i dont think it has changed much, or maybe i just went to a ghetto school. i remember my first day at high school i saw some chick smash another chicks head into the door. the chick came away all bloody. i also remember some kid got thrown off hte second story building.

i do think that parents these days let TV and the internet raise thier kids for them.

[FaLKoN240]

I know when I have kids, Imma hit them.

Not out of anger, but in the name of dicipline. People that think time outs and talks can keep your kids out of trouble are stupid. Kids have too much time, and don't really care about losing it. When was the last time you heard of a 5 year old holding appointments, and using a datebook for arrangements?

Alot of learning comes from physical inputs, i.e. touching sharp things, falling down, burning yourself on a hot stove etc.

Those inputs burn into your mind and tell you NOT to do shit when you get older, it stays with you.

If you hit your kid for being dishonest, hurting another person, or doing wrong, they'll remember it more than a 15 minute time out.

No one says beat them senseless. Just hit them a little.

[sc240sx96]

yeah i agree with /\

at a high school not too far from mine, a student bought a airsoft ( or pellet, im not sure) gun off of ebay, took another student hostage at the school with the gun, and hoped that he would get himself killed by having police officers shoot him to death to save the hostages life...

the mothers response was something along the lines of "i NOW know that my son had some problems, and i really wish i could go back in time and fix everything"

i dont think its the internet, video games, or tv thats causing the problems that much at all. i think its the parents or teachers not supervising or disciplining their kids. how the fuck could you let your kid get THAT messed up in the head without realized they need some serious help?!

and btw... im pretty sure that SC has the worst rated public education systems in the nation. woot woot for dropping out? (just kidding)

[trybal]

but kids these days don't take physical punishment like they used to. My little brother and my dad have gotten into it. And all my brother does now is HATE my dad. he tells all his friends that he is the worste father and that there parents are better than ours. My parents did a fine job on me i feel and i got bent over the knee alot. But all that does for my brother is bring more hate into his eyes. I know this is a completely different subject but it goes along with the discipline idea. A kid now a days will call the cops on his/her parents if they are physically punished. Its not "acceptable" anymore in our society which can be a good thing. But i still feel that kids need to be slapped up, but not when they are too young or to old. Theres only a few years where it will actually teach them anything

[FaLKoN240]

No self respecting cop would take a man to jail for disciplining a kid, if he did something wrong. There's nothing wrong with a good spanking.

[miucus]

at my public school there was at least 1 or even more fights a week, this is in irvine too people.

[s14dr1ft3r]

I have 2 kids and a third on the way. And it didnt take a school shooting for me to realize that kids need to be disciplined. My kids are some of the best behaved kids I know and that's because my wife and I don't let them get away with shit. When they're really young (newborn-1 year) I would flick their hands if they got into something that they shouldn't. After that, the spankings started. If they did something well or when they were told, we would praise them. I know some don't believe in physical punishment (my brother included) but this is what works for me. And I get complimented when we go places about how well behaved they are. The point...proper discipline and appropriate show of affection goes a long way. My kids don't hate me for disciplining them. They messed up and they paid the consequence...and I make sure that they understand that.

[efextasy]

I don't think schools have gotten worse they have always been like that. The thing that is happening is that its getting more exposure on the media, you hear about kids getting shot and racial fights.
I remember when I was in elementary I always knew the highschool I was gonna go to was violent. So when I got there in freshmen year , everyday there was krew related violence not gangs, but those tagging krews and stuff. Most of all there were racial fights against hispanics and blacks always during lunch. But the biggest racial fight I remember was the asian with blacks , because some black person punked this lil asian kid, but that kid had a big brother that was in some asian gang so he called him up . Then in afterschool all this asian gangster were waiting in front of the park with guns, crazy stuff but I never saw that in fox 11 or abc or even telemundo.

[Farzam]

As somebody currently in high school, i'd like to give some input.

I'm currently a junior, and i've actually noticed LESS violence recently than in the past couple years. We have 3 deputy sheriffs at my school, 2 security guards, and 5 administrators...yeah, I go to a "rich suburban" school.

The problem with violence isn't really with the kids, it's started with the atmosphere and then they take it care of the rest. If your parents are lame and quiet, people at school make fun of you, and teachers don't really notice you, you have to vent out somewhere or you'll become dull and lifeless like 95% of the people this happens to. Kids like violent things like Grand Theft Auto, Rambo, all that. Kids who are alienated get caught onto this and when they get angry, they envision these things happening. It keeps happening and they're in a psychosis and they become raging psychopaths. There honestly is no deffinitive thing to accuse, but there are a lot of general things that contribute.

It's not schools, it's people. People go crazy.

But nowadays, all this crap that is still going on is pretty sketchy. Every other kid in the world has done some drug, 80% of all the druggies have knives or even guns(Hell, I can get a .28 for $70 if I wanted), etc. Parents now are punk bitches, and the kids are becoming rebellious. The next generation is going to be really wacky.

And race isn't really an issue much nowadays, usually. Most of the time it's the kids from the grimy ghetto that talk shit and then the other race is like "well fuck you man" and then the grimy ghetto kid is like "no, fuck YOU!" and they talk about fighting for about 10 minutes and then go circle jerk with their homies. There's just a LOT of talk nowadays and not much follow through.

If you want your kids to be cool...just take them to hardcore/metalcore shows. Let them 2-step their anger away and then buy them their favorite t-shirt. They'll be the coolest kids in kindergarten.

I'll stop teh rantz0r.

[Dunkee]

I don't think schools have gotten worse they have always been like that. The thing that is happening is that its getting more exposure on the media, you hear about kids getting shot and racial fights.
I remember when I was in elementary I always knew the highschool I was gonna go to was violent. So when I got there in freshmen year , everyday there was krew related violence not gangs, but those tagging krews and stuff. Most of all there were racial fights against hispanics and blacks always during lunch. But the biggest racial fight I remember was the asian with blacks , because some black person punked this lil asian kid, but that kid had a big brother that was in some asian gang so he called him up . Then in afterschool all this asian gangster were waiting in front of the park with guns, crazy stuff but I never saw that in fox 11 or abc or even telemundo.

I think that's different though. There's always been gangs and brawls in the tuff schools but now kids get so depressed that one kid'll bring a gun to school to kill anybody and everybody...that's the shit you didn't see before. And now since it's got more exposure, it has become the norm and more and more kids think it's ok to do. I agree w/ beatings but appropriate...not cause you're frustrated w/ the kid and not out of anger, just for discipline and respect.

Oh and yes it all stems from TV, movies, internet...things w/ like to see and hear. It has made violence & sex cool and kids are picking up on it at a real early age.

[MOUNTAINGARAGE]

I think you guys talking about hitting your kids are very under-educated. You need to learn parenting by reading multiple books on raising kids.
Until you have a kid, listen. Hitting is not the answer. Violence does not give you respect from a child, it makes them fear you, ultimately leading to betrayal and defiance.

I agree that kids(teenagers) are acting the way they do to get attention. They are so used to acting out to get attention, (like my 6 year old son does) they do major things later in life, like shootings and hostage situations.

[Dunkee]

I think you guys talking about hitting your kids are very under-educated. You need to learn parenting by reading multiple books on raising kids.
Until you have a kid, listen. Hitting is not the answer. Violence does not give you respect from a child, it makes them fear you, ultimately leading to betrayal and defiance.

I agree that kids(teenagers) are acting the way they do to get attention. They are so used to acting out to get attention, (like my 6 year old son does) they do major things later in life, like shootings and hostage situations.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. I got hit, yes I feared my mom but I also respected her. She showed me affection as well so I loved her. It's give and take. Hitting may not always be the answer but there has to be a fine line of respect and affection. I didn't respect my dad as much cause he was too lenient...if it was only him in my life I prob would have been a bad ass.

[MOUNTAINGARAGE]

I used to have that mindset and philosophy that hitting your kids gave you respect. I was spanked as a child too. That does not make it right. Yeah, I turned out ok, and now I am a father.

<analogy>
If I gave you guys an adjustable wrench and told you to tune and fix your ride, you would get upset and frustrated. The best mechanic in the world, with the best intentions cannot fix a car without the proper tools.

As parents, it is your responsibility, after bringing a child into this world, to educate yourself with the proper tools. The tools are in books, audio and video compiled by professionals, parents, and experiences.

Children do not have the tools at young ages to communicate. Instead of saying, "Look, I am proud of myself for being able draw a mural on my bedroom wall in black marker." You see something totally different. You see an act of defiance and bad behavior. Then, you discipline him by a smack and yelling. What does that tell him? That 1. you don't care about him and his accomplishments 2. that a smack is how you are supposed to display being mad at someone. 3. he is hurt that you are angry at him

anyway, there are tons of reasons why earning the respect of your child is alot better than putting fear and pain into them.

and yes, this all goes around full circle. Both Parents are working full time to have the "very best" for their child. When the "very best" is actually spending time with them. Children learn most from watching and listening on their own, not being told what to do. The more you spend free time with a kid, the more chance they have of actually learning from you. THAT, my friends, is the real reson why we are not safe at school....and guess what! it is too late now.

If parents spent half as much time on learning about their kids as they do on watching TV and misc activities, the world would be a better place.

[bardabe]

I guess I am a diferent case. I am 17 my parents never touched me I learned through trial and error (Ultimate way to learn) and yet I stayed out of trouble. I guess either I have a diferent way of procesing things. or Im just too damn grown up when things get serious???? (by the way I turned out Ok the worse Ive done is argue with a teacher over a stupid cell phone in the parking lot after school thing and got suspended for a day) and no im not a wuzz Ive gotten in fist fights before... and FTW I got them on video.

[Dunkee]

I agree w/ you, it makes a lot of sense. (Plus I don't have kids so I will say you are right) But I still think there is a time and place for scolding / spanking when they are young. I think most ppl abuse it and take out their anger on kids so yes that is wrong...but a little as ultimate last result is alright. If it is done too much kids get immune to it. I think once they are older communication and getting them to like you is key like you said. I have nieces/nephews/younger cousins and while I never really hit any of them I do have a tough voice. They respect me very much but at the same time they like me the same...that's what I base my theories on.

[HalveBlue]

Come now I think this should be common sense. I don't think anyone here is advocating beating their kids to a bloody pulp when it comes to hitting their kids. I'm thinking more along the lines of slap of a little love tap.

Physical action should result in an immediate reaction on the part of the child; think of it as knocking some sense into them. But they have to also understand why it happened. That's where good parents come in. A parent shouldn't just slap, but should also explain to the child why what happened, happened.

But I agree, I don't think spank is appropriate all the time. Face it, they're kids. Kids experiment with the world around them from day one. Sometimes they do bad things, more often than not because they didn't know any better. A good parent should know when and how much force to use to reprimand their child.

Reading books can help, but too often people are over reliant on academia. I think the whole Dr. Spock theory of letting your kids do whatever the hell they want is as bad as creating permanent psychological trauma through physical abuse.