Stupid @$$ hodas

[revat619]

I was driving around today, just minding my own buisness when out of my rear view mirror i see some dirty white car speeding up to get next to me at the stop light. Once i looked over it was 2 stupid guys in an @$$ ugly 91 honda prelude si/sh (whatever...i dont know and i dont care). Anyways, I knew his car sucked so i didnt think anything of it, but as soon as the light turned green, he does a small peal out and he's off. Idiot. I'm still driving regularly and i easily catch him...but that idiot swerves over so i cant pass...so i just wait until theres an opening in the next lane...i smoke past him, but the little queer goes into the left turn an exits laughing.

What a [email protected]$$...what bugs me is the fact that this guy even had the nerve to do that (to try to race). Do honda owners have a clue?
This is like the third time some stupid either old or riced out honda has done this. Its gettin really annoying. This is in broad daylight at 5 in the afternoon, there's cars everywhere, innocent people could get hurt. I hate hondas with a passion (ex. S2000 and 2001 prelude SH...those are ok). This really is a stupid post, but i had to vent
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[SR20Fastback]

damn those "hoda" bastards &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;haha man just messin around, i feel ya. But I dont get challanged as much, they must think im slow because the tint on my hatch is bubbling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[AKADriver]

Why hate Hondas? &nbsp;They're great cars, they just attract idiot owners sometimes.

Those early '90s Prelude Si's are interesting cars. &nbsp;They have a really nice style, low stance, and great handling for an FF. &nbsp;The 135hp 2.1L is pretty fun, too.

[tnord]

1) i like honda's. they are fast.
2) you my friend, are the one without a "clue."

[revat619]

sorry about the topic heading "hodas" i meant hondas of course. Anyways, S2000's and the newer model preludes are cool, but civics and accords...please...and the crx...oh wow what a sports car. The civic si is not that great. The accord...we dont get the type R...you figure it out. The jdm hondas are cool but the american stuff is way different...you should know that (ex. jdm silvia - us 240sx). I guess its the owners not the actual cars...although i still dont like them...

tnord : What do you mean i dont have a clue...what do hondas have thats better than a nissan...dont even say v-tech either.

The bottom line is... i'm sick of ricers challenging me...i dont understand why they do it...it just bugs

[whateverjames]

it's good to vent. but it's also good to ignore pricks like that.

[SimpleS14]

no need to hate on Honda, you should really be hating on the owners that act like complete idiots. This also goes to the owners of any car (even the 240SX) that act like a fool and really have no common sense. The one thing that Honda has over Nissan is good marketing (before the year 2000). Also lets not forget Honda has a better reputation(sp?) with other products such as lawn mower <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> and motorcycles <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'> .

[my240likenoother]

i hate the hondas with the fart pipe that sounds like a lawn mower and the gay ass tail's with the shoping cart wing so when they do get that thing up to 120mph it bends the shit out of the trunk, i have seen so many up at my buddys shop getting new trunks put on and they still put the wing back on

morons.......... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

[tnord]

honda's have better engines and transmissions as far as 4cyl available in the US go. and yes, VTEC is a part of that. the 6cyl in the NSX is probably better than any V6 nissan offers, but seing as i have limited direct experience with the NSX, i won't pass judgement on that. honda's as a whole are probably more reliable as well. &nbsp;the new RSX isn't due for service until 100k miles, that's pretty impressive. if you can't respect what honda does, you're just ignorant.

"i was driving regularly and easily caught him"
wow. i'm impressed. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> you caught up to an underpowered car who most likely wasn't even trying. way to go buddy, you deserve a prize. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 05 2002,10:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">honda's have better engines and transmissions as far as 4cyl available in the US go. and yes, VTEC is a part of that. the 6cyl in the NSX is probably better than any V6 nissan offers, but seing as i have limited direct experience with the NSX, i won't pass judgement on that. honda's as a whole are probably more reliable as well. the new RSX isn't due for service until 100k miles, that's pretty impressive. if you can't respect what honda does, you're just ignorant.

"i was driving regularly and easily caught him"
wow. i'm impressed. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> you caught up to an underpowered car who most likely wasn't even trying. way to go buddy, you deserve a prize. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
If they are so great why don't you go get one?

Sorry tnord, but yer posts sometimes geton my nerves &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[gsu240]

I don't see why everyone says they hate hondas. &nbsp;I mean yes you may be driving a Nissan, but probably more than 1/2 the people on this board were given a Nissan by their parents, not able to choose. &nbsp;You could have easily been given a Civic. &nbsp;
Just because there are a shitload "ricers" that drive hondas that think they can beat everyone just because of the massive wing and annoying exhaust doesn't mean hondas sucks. &nbsp;On my way home from work today i saw a '96 240sx with 18 in chrome rims, aluminum wing, and yellow street glows and an automatic who tried racing me. &nbsp;Me or someone else could have easily said they hate Nissan just because this guy fucked with him/her.
So just because you see some ricer that thinks he's cool doesnt mean all hondas suck. Have some common sense.

[AKADriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ July 05 2002,10:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If they are so great why don't you go get one?

Sorry tnord, but yer posts sometimes geton my nerves <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Speaking for tnord, because we like our 240SX's better, I assume.

Liking your 240SX doesn't mean you have to hate everything else. &nbsp;Why is this such a difficult problem for people on this board?

[Y-49CRXsi]

ha ha ha. i liked that story. i like my honda too though...but i know EXACTLY what you mean! Just the other day i raced a CIVIC SIR! Well, at least is said, "SIR" on the side on the gas cap cover! I asked him what he had...his reply, "CIVIC". Gee, i wouldn't have known it was a civic until he told me and put the big white vinal sticker on the windshield that said "CIVIC" 3 ft wide! It turns out that....."GASP!" it wasn't an SIR! It was an automatic 92 civic LX. &nbsp;damn, i was sure it was a real SIR cause it even had the "Super Street" logo where the "H" emblem was on the back! &nbsp;Ha ha ha ha, my friend's GEO STORM beat it too....that was a good day to rip apart ricers. Oh, i'm saving still for my 240sx, don't worry people, the crx is going away.

[tnord]

i do want a honda. i want an itr very badly, but from a financial standpoint it's not a smart decision on my part. i have no problem if my posts get on your nerves, i don't hate you for it. i don't like everyone, and i don't expect everybody to like me. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[AKADriver]

I'd love an ITR, but they're too much of a theft magnet for this area... &nbsp;I'd have to hire a 24 hour guard.

[Griffon2k]

There goes &nbsp;those words again, Honda and VTEC. I will admit Honda's aren't bad cars. I make that statement because I don't stereotype cars by their owners. However, when looking at Honda cars mechanically, I have to say there is not much to be astonished by. I have my favorites, the ITR, CTR, and NSX, but the run of the mill VTEC is nothing impressive. Honda's can be fast but that takes a lot of work. They have low torque ratios, and regardless of how much HP you have, torque moves your damn car (VIPER HP=500, VIPER TORQUE=500, perfect ratio, fast car, think about it) Now onto the VTEC. Sure it's a boost of power, but you have to rev your engine into 5500 rpms before it decides to kick in. That is a weak power band. Honda has good marketing and a great hold on the aftermarket that is why it has such a following. Don't be mistaken, Honda is not untouchable, and while they may deserve some respect, they certainly don't deserve the ass kissing that some people (pay attention tnord) give them. nuff said.

[Griffon2k]

And further more, to answer AKADriver's question, having a 240sx doesn't mean you have to hate every other car. The reason why Kreator made that statement is probably because some people are so damn quick in here to jump on another car's dick. ISN'T THIS A 240sx FORUM?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> If you can't stand by the car you drive, maybe you should be driving something else. Why promote Honda or any other car in a 240 forum? I'm pretty sure that the people in Honda forums aren't sitting around talking about how great a 240sx is. There is a difference between respecting a car, and riding dick.Tnord's posts certifies as pure dick riding. You should be in this forum because your parent gave you a 240sx, or even because you simply got stuck with a 240sx, you should be here because you love the 240sx.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,01:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There goes those words again, Honda and VTEC. I will admit Honda's aren't bad cars. I make that statement because I don't stereotype cars by their owners. However, when looking at Honda cars mechanically, I have to say there is not much to be astonished by. I have my favorites, the ITR, CTR, and NSX, but the run of the mill VTEC is nothing impressive. Honda's can be fast but that takes a lot of work. They have low torque ratios, and regardless of how much HP you have, torque moves your damn car (VIPER HP=500, VIPER TORQUE=500, perfect ratio, fast car, think about it) Now onto the VTEC. Sure it's a boost of power, but you have to rev your engine into 5500 rpms before it decides to kick in. That is a weak power band. Honda has good marketing and a great hold on the aftermarket that is why it has such a following. Don't be mistaken, Honda is not untouchable, and while they may deserve some respect, they certainly don't deserve the ass kissing that some people (pay attention tnord) give them. nuff said.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
oh boy did you walk into this.

i don't see how VTEC is nothing to be impressed by. considering it was developed in the ?mid 80's? and is still an extremely effective method over 20 years later is quite the achievement. i am by no means claiming that honda was the first to develop a vvt system, but i'm willing to bet their near the top. do you know of a way to have 4 different cam profiles on only two sticks? can you figure out a way to transition between those cam's without damaging rocker arms (does vtec use a rocker arm, or do the cams act "directly" on the valves themselves?) or the cam itself? how about this, VTEC is one of the main reasons that honda's are flying under the DOT?/EPA? gov't radar for fuel economy standards. how about this......by using VTEC honda has the ability to appeal to 2 separate demographics at once. both the "cars are a point A to B tool" crowd, and the "i want to go fast" crowd, all with the same car, for the same price. not only has VTEC enhanced the engineering side of the company, but it helps keep the company operating in the black as well (do you know what, &nbsp; in the black means?) basic VTEC may not be a nobel prize winning technique, of course BMW's Valvetronic system is vastly superior, but as i stated, VTEC is not exactly new.

and about this whole torque thing.....torque doesn't really matter if you got REVS (yes i'm aware that torque is a measure of twisting force (force x length) and without any of that force you go nowhere). in case you didn't know.....hp is just a measurement of (torque x RPM)/5250, so you see, it really doesn't matter what you have, ftlbs, or RPM's, it comes out the same. by your theory our 240's should walk all over a Si, but they don't. why? because the Si has 2000 usable rpm's on us. who cares if you gotta get to 5500 rpm before something interesting happens, the next 2500 rpm is all you need if you want to go fast. how the fuck is that a weak powerband? ours is from what, 4-6 grand? i know if i see my rpm below 4500 on the throttle application point of a corner i'll grab a lower gear next time around. &nbsp;sure, torque is good for everyday driving and low gear, low speed corners, but in pure performance applications, i'll take the high strung screamer please. and what is this "perfect ratio" you speak of? hp/ftlbs? i've never heard of this. if it is of any significance, please explain. the viper is a fast car cause it's got 10 FREAKIN CYLINDERS AND TIRES THE SIZE OF A KING SIZE BED. the viper is not a part of this discussion, it impresses me in no way. honda has great marketing? their main market is the everyday family that just need a reliable car. they don't put much effort into the performace side of things. and who's kissing up to honda? i think honda as a company is amazing, and it's no secret i like their engines, but their only reasonably affordable sports car is a convertable, and everyone knows if you want performance you gotta have an enclosed roof and rwd. why would i kiss their ass for that? if you wanna see me kiss ass, lets talk about BMW.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,01:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And further more, to answer AKADriver's question, having a 240sx doesn't mean you have to hate every other car. The reason why Kreator made that statement is probably because some people are so damn quick in here to jump on another car's dick. ISN'T THIS A 240sx FORUM?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> If you can't stand by the car you drive, maybe you should be driving something else. Why promote Honda or any other car in a 240 forum? I'm pretty sure that the people in Honda forums aren't sitting around talking about how great a 240sx is. There is a difference between respecting a car, and riding dick.Tnord's posts certifies as pure dick riding. You should be in this forum because your parent gave you a 240sx, or even because you simply got stuck with a 240sx, you should be here because you love the 240sx.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

EDIT; removal of useless insults.

[wherezmytofu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 05 2002,03:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,01:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And further more, to answer AKADriver's question, having a 240sx doesn't mean you have to hate every other car. The reason why Kreator made that statement is probably because some people are so damn quick in here to jump on another car's dick. ISN'T THIS A 240sx FORUM?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> If you can't stand by the car you drive, maybe you should be driving something else. Why promote Honda or any other car in a 240 forum? I'm pretty sure that the people in Honda forums aren't sitting around talking about how great a 240sx is. There is a difference between respecting a car, and riding dick.Tnord's posts certifies as pure dick riding. You should be in this forum because your parent gave you a 240sx, or even because you simply got stuck with a 240sx, you should be here because you love the 240sx.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
you have no brain do you?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well he is confused...he thinks we r closed minded people and think our cars r the greatest....hmmm....if he drove a honda he would think the honda was the greatest...wow...just like the people he is critizizing....how here'z my point...there r lots of car manufacturese...and they all make good cars &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'> ...well most of them......and saying htat i like all nice cars...not dependable on make

[Griffon2k]

LMAO @ tnord


You the reason assholes with SI's pull up next to me and get waxed every other day. SI's aren't god's gift tnord, a bs SOHC Neon can slaughter one. And another thing, for all the info you know about the Honda VTEC, how much info do you have on the 240sx? Variable Valve Timing, yes I admit, it is an engineering feat, but that is pretty much where it stops. On the street a VTEC isn't shit unless you frankenstein the hell out of the engine. That is why SI's can get bent over so damn easily now. If you want to talk about a Honda engine, talk to me about the Integra Type R, I respect that engine, it was built for out of the box performance, I'll even take the Integra GS-R, but just a VTEC or an SI, you have got to be kidding me. And how does torque fit into all of this? Well, lets think for a minute. The Viper (And I used that because of its perfect ratio) is fast not because of tires (when have you ever known tires to make a car fast???) and it isn't just because it has a v10, it is because it's engine works up to 500 horses, and puts it to the asphalt using that 500 ft/lb of breakneck torque. Torque doesn't matter??? Typical Honda lover. 200 Hp doesn't mean a thing if your torque is 145. That means you're doing less than 175 at the wheels. Torque doesn't matter, that is real funny tnord. Well at least I have learned something from you today, that you are pretty good at making an ass out of yourself, posterboy. Go have an SI and a smile.

[Griffon2k]

Oh and before I forget tnord, my powerband starts at about 3000-3500 rpms and only gets stronger as i go up. What in god's name did you do to your 240 for it to wait until 4500 rpms before doing something?? Maybe that's why you think 240's are so slow... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

[SR20Fastback]

damn this is gonna be a blood bath, I think im gonna go grab some popcorn between rounds.

and so this post has a point:

Hondas are good cars, the only reason they're stereotyped is because of some of the asshole, im 16 like APC stickers and think Im Vin Diesel/Paul Walker kids.

I dunno maybe Im talkin outta my ass, hondas can be fast, the only dislike I have of them is their drive trains. I've had so much more fun with my 240 than I ever did with my Prelude. Although I will never stop loving my old white somewhat beast of a prelude <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[AKADriver]

There is no such thing as a "perfect ratio". &nbsp;Having such a "perfect ratio" of 1:1 usually results in what I'd describe as uninspiring engines to drive, unless they're forcefed or very large displacement.

Torque is multiplied by gearing. &nbsp;If the engine doesn't make the torque, extend the rev band and add shorter gears. &nbsp;That's exactly what Honda has done with their cars - and it works. &nbsp;Thus the point of variable valve timing, to make a high winding engine agreeable at low revs. &nbsp;It's true that the run of the mill SOHC VTEC engines are pretty much bland, but the DOHC VTEC engines from the B16A on up are quite exciting.

A '99-'00 Si might lose a few races to SOHC Neons, but in general they're a bit quicker. &nbsp;SOHC Neons are for the most part consistent high-16-second cars, except for the 3.94:1 geared ACR sedan which is in the lower 16's. &nbsp;Si dragstrip times vary widely, from craptastic high 16's at the hands of riceboys to a 15.29 at the hands of a friend of mine.

The Si's main drawback is that it's heavy - as heavy as an S13. &nbsp;The B16A is a lot of fun in a hatchback or CRX body.

[tnord]

statements tha show this person is of less than normal intelligence;

1)If you want to talk about a Honda engine, talk to me about the Integra Type R, I respect that engine, it was built for out of the box performance, I'll even take the Integra GS-R, but just a VTEC or an SI, you have got to be kidding me.

you are aware that these are all B series engines right? they all use basically the same techniques, hence why you can "frankenstein" them. i'm pretty sure both the itr and the gsr are both 1.8L engines. one's a B18C (itr) and the other is a B18A (gsr) er somethin like that i really don't know. because of the higher rev capability of the itr i'm guessing it just has beefier valve springs and lighter valves. it also most likely runs higher compression, possibly via a head gasket. i do know that the cams are a bit "hotter" because people put them in other B series motors all the time. so basically, when you say the Si sucks, but the itr is impressive.......you really stick your foot in your mouth seeing as how the motor differences really aren't that distant.

2) The Viper is fast not because of tires.
&nbsp;
i just don't even know what to say about this <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> . Hey Einstein, toss on some 185's, take a few laps, then put some 355's (roughly the size of the vipers rear tires) and tell me tires don't make you faster. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'>

3) And I used that because of its perfect ratio

once again, of what significance is this ratio? how did you come up with this?

4) 200 Hp doesn't mean a thing if your torque is 145.

sure it does, it means to make 200hp with only 145ftlbs you have to be able to operate at 7241.38rpm, not out of reach by any means. especially not out of reach for any HONDA/TOYOTA &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> . (wasn't expecting the toyota were you?)

5) 200 Hp doesn't mean a thing if your torque is 145. That means you're doing less than 175 at the wheels

assuming you're talking about a fwd honda, and what measurement are you referring to, hp or torque? making a couple assumptions of my own, you're pretty much right. but i'm anxious to see how you came up with that number, please show me.

6) a bs SOHC Neon can slaughter one

considering a 97 SOHC neon makes 132hp, and a 99 Si makes 160 with a couple thousand more rpm available, i'm gonna go ahead and say you're lying.



thank you and come again. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,02:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh and before I forget tnord, my powerband starts at about 3000-3500 rpms and only gets stronger as i go up. What in god's name did you do to your 240 for it to wait until 4500 rpms before doing something?? Maybe that's why you think 240's are so slow... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
you go right ahead and keep those revs at 3k at throttle application point. i'll throw in an extra downshift while braking, and we'll see who gets to the next braking point first. that is, if you don't shit your pants because you've never been on a track before.

[SR20Fastback]

tnord- to answer your question or pondering the ITR engine is the B18C5 and the GSR engine is the B18C1

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ July 06 2002,03:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">tnord- to answer your question or pondering the ITR engine is the B18C5 and the GSR engine is the B18C1</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
thank you for clarifying.........btw.......i like your sig.

[negular]

well i'll be dammed...u all go off man

[Griffon2k]

If the engines of the SI and the ITR and GS-R are so similar, why don't you get an SI and try to take an ITR. You would get hosed, wouldn't you. The engines are very different, you can't bullshit around that. The ITR and the GTR have higher compression, but that is not because of just a head gasket (where the hell did you get that from anyway?)

To finally keep your asshole from continuing speak for you on a tire's contribution to speed, a tire can shave a couple tenths off of your time, but there is no way in hell you are going to tell me that a damn viper is fast because of its tires, the thought of that statement is ignorant, repulsive, and repugnant all at the same tire. GEE, MAYBE I SHOULD GET SOME VIPER TIRES TO MAKE MY CAR FAST... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'> Oh, and that ratio, I didn't have to make that up, Dodge did it for me. Ask them how to figure it out......

Funny that you brought up Toyota, don't celica's whoop up on SI's too? Yeah they do, I used to drive one, I would know....

And lastly, they say on paper that SI's have 160 hp, but their torque is much lower than that which gives it about as much hp as a SOHC Neon at the wheels (and in a race, whp is all that matters) and that is why Neons can rape an SI pretty easily. Like I said before, if you want to talk about a honda car, talk to me about and ITR, GS-R, maybe even a CTR or NSX, but you can hang all that SI and VTEC bs up.


Kind of embarrassing isn't it. Your post proved absolutely nothing. I guess since your facts on the VTEC couldn't hold water you decided to try to pick my words apart, nice try. Then you bring up another company (Toyota) whose car (Celica) could wipe the floor with your beloved SI too...hmm. Would you like a bandage man, you just f**ked yourself pretty bad......

[Griffon2k]

Braking point....hmmmm. How about I double clutch and leave your sorry ass looking at my license plate??? Never been to a track...that is funny, real funny. What do you run tnord, a 16.9?

[SR20Fastback]

dude shut up. No one gives a shit, because you're not proving any points yourself. Since you've been on these boards, all you've done is pissed other members off. In that other thread about the NA KA, all you did was ruin it for stil-bill. You take up all this bandwith and argue over THE GAYEST THINGS. If you hate hondas, thats your opinion, that doesnt make it everyone elses. So please quit wasting our time, and not post on the subject anymore.

Edit: Forgot to give you my patented picture. Enjoy <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>


http://www.disrupted.net/~idon/reminder.jpg

[Griffon2k]

SR20Fastback...this had nothing to do with you, I'd stay out of it. I never said I hate honda's did I? Read my post again. I proved my point along time ago, which was that it doesn't make since to be in a 240sx forum if all you do is talk about hondas. In the NA KA post, I gave stil bil some pretty decent advice, and that asshole Loren jumps in screwing the whole post up. If you notice, I responded to his post, and then I got pretty quiet, because he was only there to cause noise. He had what 20 posts full of bs to my three? I didn't come in here to piss anyone off. It just bothers me that someone can be in this forum, and have a 240sx yet at every turn shows Honda pride. This is a 240 forum don't you agree? I don't have a problem with you SR20, but please don't jump into an argument that has nothing to do with you man...and that homo thing really hurt me....honest.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[tnord]

once again.....you proved yourself to be quite the intellect. i'll try this one more time tonight.

1) If the engines of the SI and the ITR and GS-R are so similar, why don't you get an SI and try to take an ITR. You would get hosed, wouldn't you. The engines are very different.

they are all B series engines just like i said before. the integra engines are different sure, but i'm willing to bet they use basically the same parts throughout, with some alterations to cylinder dimensions, and a couple different parts here and there. kinda like the 3 series BMW's. they have had everything from a 2.5liter in the 323 (i'm pretty sure it was still a 2.5 and not a 2.3), a 2.8liter in the 328, a 3liter in the 330 and early M3, as well as a 3.2 in the later M3. now while these cars are all different, the chassis is the same, and the basic engine design is the same. do you see how that works dipshit? probably not, i'll explain it to you in nissan terms since you can get that tailpipe out of your mouth. the current VQ engine is used in everything from the pathfinder, altima, maxima, various infiniti's, and now the new Z car. are all these engines identical? of course not, but they are all very similar. of course a Z is gonna rape an altima, but by your theory, these cars have completely different powerplants.

2) The ITR and the GTR have higher compression, but that is not because of just a head gasket (where the hell did you get that from anyway?)

they may have different pistons, i don't know. now i'm not gonna claim to be 100% positive of this, but iirc, you can raise your compression by getting a thinner head gasket. more air in the same amt of space = higher compression. somebody (besides griffon) please correct me if i'm wrong.

3) a tire can shave a couple tenths off of your time

this is my favorite. you think i've been talking about drag racing the whole time, when 90% of people know i'm referring to road racing.

4) Oh, and that ratio, I didn't have to make that up, Dodge did it for me. Ask them how to figure it out.

you still haven't told me of what significance this ratio is. at least show me a spec sheet with a hp/tourque ratio on it, cause i've never seen one.

5) don't celica's whoop up on SI's too.

of course they fuckin do. they got 190+ hp and rev like a bastard. when did i ever say they wouldn't rape an Si. they got mad power and are light, of course they are fast. the context i used the celica in had nothing to do with performance comparison, i just used it to give you another example as where rev-ability is just as important as torque. apparantly you weren't capable of making this distinction.

6) And lastly, they say on paper that SI's have 160 hp, but their torque is much lower than that which gives it about as much hp as a SOHC Neon at the wheels

do you not read a single thing i type? hp is hp no matter how much torque it has. "the NSX has 295 hp on paper, but it doesn't have much torque, so i'd beat it in a race." NO NO NO you f'n moron. HORSEPOWER IS HORSEPOWER, it's figured AFTER torque, not before it douchebag. once again......HP=(TORQUE X RPM)/5250. this statement of yours just shows your complete ignorance. but hey, ignorance is bliss isn't it? &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Braking point....hmmmm. How about I double clutch and leave your sorry ass looking at my license plate??? Never been to a track...that is funny, real funny. What do you run tnord, a 16.9?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
please please.......NOBODY ANSWER THIS FOR HIM

enlighten us griffon. i'm so oblivious to double clutching i have never heard of it before. i would be so grateful if you could tell me how to double clutch, and what situation would warrant such?


this is going to be good........ <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[SR20Fastback]

......back from getting popcorn...now on with round 4 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>


Edit: That pic in round 3, was just my way of throwing my crumbled beer can at my fighter I DONT want to win &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>


note: need beer

[revat619]

This is getting stupid...i apologize to griffon &nbsp;and everybody else other than tnord for having to deal with this. Tnord...you're an idiot...just trade in your 240 and buy a civic...you've been kissing honda's @$$ too long...its disgusting...you have no respect. You seem to get so excited when you talk about them (hondas)...it's sad.

Oh yeah, of course the NSX is a great car...what the hell are you trying to prove by throwing that in my face. Unfortunately, the U.S. doesnt get the skyline to compete with that.

Whatever...this is dumb...your stupidity and sheer @$$ kissing is exhausting...i'm going to bed

Of course we all know there's gonna be some type of @$$ hole remark and more honda @$$ kissing after this post...hmmm, i have to admit, it has been quite fun watching you make a fool of yourself over and over &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp; Ah well, i guess on that note i really will go to bed...

[SilviaDriver]

what has the world come too when stating facts about honda is "kissing @$$"...only ass kissing that would be going on is when u try going up against a GSR stock..with ur stock car..u may have more torque..but he will get u in the long run..and remember u running up against a FWD car too..if u wanna be placed in the correct class of RWD..go play wiht a s2000..but of course u can always be those dorks that hit their hazards in 2nd gear..and say "yea i got you foo!"..my car may be near stock or is stock too..but i know who to play with and who not to play with..anywys..watever.. honda is a great company..its known for small engines with high hp..its hp:L ratio is very good..dats technology..juss cuz u have a Nissan dont mean u have to hate on everything else..the cost of ur car..and be the cost of a civic HB w/ GSR motor..if u wanna play..go play with a B20Z VTEC civic hb <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> ..so quit saying hondas sux..cuz their not..so dont go around saying hondas sux and Nissans rule..dont hate the company..hate the riders..matter of fact..dont hate at all..juss be mad

for ppl who dont know wat im talkin about...

B20Z = 2002+ CRV engine
B20Z VTEC aka CRVtec = b20z bottom with vtec head


have fun

[rancid240]

fuck me, not another "lets all defend honda" flame war.

If somebody doesnt like Honda, SO WHAT.

I think we can all agree, that some types of people were meant to slap park benches on the back of their moms civic.

[Kreator]

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
I thought people have grown up. I remember hearing these discussions back in March when i joined.
Hondas are great cars.... for what they are not for what they are made to look. tnord, the point i got pissed is cuz you were saying how honda is so great compared to a nissan. Yeah, whatever

And umm yeah, i say griffon is a dumb mofo who should get banned?...

[thewholefnshow]

Pure and simple, hondas that come to north america are much closer to their japanese counterparts than nissans. They do make a better NA engine is many respects, but for reliablity and ultimate power, sorry, a good old sr20de will smoke a LOT of newer hondas... those old ser sr20de's really cook... but honda is a better N/A company. But out of all the engines, the ca18det is better at beating honda at it's own game... it just never came here. I think it is useless arguing these things against each other cause they aren't in the same class and never will be. However, the biggest problem with this thread is it started cause somebody else had a pissing contest with a honda. I can assure you that it wasen't the cars fault it was the driver... so the whole honda thing is a moot point that never should have been brought up.

[Loren]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,03:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the engines of the SI and the ITR and GS-R are so similar, why don't you get an SI and try to take an ITR. You would get hosed, wouldn't you. The engines are very different, you can't bullshit around that. The ITR and the GTR have higher compression, but that is not because of just a head gasket (where the hell did you get that from anyway?)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
so we met again griffon.. your an idiot, you really don't know anything about cars, that was illustrated with another thread. but the thing is your so self-righteous... your not aware that head gaskets affect compression. i can't believe no one else picked up on that before now.

anyways and about saying all this cars are slow, your car is slow. you've said before it can "dust most of the cars on the road" thats bullshit. a stock 240 is not a speed demon (straight line anyhow) it can be, but from the factory its good at turns. my maxima ran a 15.1 stock (well i did have a kn filter in the stock airbox) thats faster than your car, and thats out of a 4-door car that old people drive. my guess is that you'd run in the 16s with your car, just because of your general ignorance, and im sure you've got shitty tires on it. so don't knock 16.9 your not all that far from it.

added note: i was just sifting through the bullshit and didn't see where tnord said something about the head gasket. Yes tnord a thinner gasket will raise compression, and a thicker one will lower it. of course therein lies problems. if you adjust the size of the head gasket to much it will cause problems with the valve train geometry. i don't know if this holds as true with OHC engines, but i know it does with pushrod ones. but it would loosen/tighten the belt on the cam gear. i don't think manufactureres would make ones that were too thick so no worries..

[nrcooled]

An interesting little tid-bit to chew on is the fact that Honda is not that popular in the tuning world in Japan. &nbsp;Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi own the streets there. &nbsp;Do they know something we don't....hell YEAH They understand that f/r layout and numerous turbo aplications make the above mentioned manufacture's cars superior. &nbsp;I know this is a bit off subject but just something interesting <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'>

[nas240man]

I own a 240 and i like SI's. i drive one on a daily basis and their not that slow, not much of a bottom end but top end is NICE. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[Jim96SC2]

Jim's reasons to hate honda:
10) APC products
9) 4K in mods and your still not breaking 14.5's
8) FWD... god I hate that
7) Altezza lights might as well come standard
6) People think they are fast cause there are 14 different CAI's for them
5) Everyone has one (ie Me-too car syndrome)
4) No matter what, they sound like @$$
3) Drivers think they are the best cars in the world
2) The old hp/liter argument *Cringe*
1) Street cars should not have to rev up to 5500 RPMs just to start moving out of it's own way. (notice how honda moved from 1.6L to 2.0L with a lower RPM)

[fodive]

sheesh, i thought this was a boad for ppl to ask/give advice, not bitch about usless points, but i geuss not so, i road racing tires do make a difference, because even if you have a "perfect ratio" if you cant put the power on the pavement, then your not going anywhere. i respect hondas, but i dont respect people w/big wings and fart cans, honda can be good cars, but i wouldnt want a civic, cause way too many people have them, and most of them ruin their cars. its kinda unfair to talk about how the good ole sr20de could whoop on hondas, cause we're not even supposed to have one over here, and most of us(i think) &nbsp;are running KA's in our cars, but ill shut up now, thanks for listening and i hope this doesnt incite a riot

[thewholefnshow]

I said SER sr20de, which yes, was here is sentras for a long long time. They were in the 200sx too, here in north america...

[fodive]

my bad <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'>

[tnord]

the argument continues........ <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

revat; you're an idiot...just trade in your 240 and buy a civic...you've been kissing honda's @$$ too long...its disgusting...you have no respect.

if you wanna talk about kissing ass, it's all the ignorant fools in here that think the 240 is the segment busting, end all performance leader. i've owned 3 friggin nissan's, including a Z32, don't tell me i got no respect for nissan. and besides, if i was gonna trade in my 240, it'd be for an itr or rsx-s. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Kreator: the point i got pissed is cuz you were saying how honda is so great compared to a nissan

that's fine. but from a business standpoint, honda is a much greater comapany than nissan. you can't argue that nissan has had financial troubles in the not so distant past. don't get me wrong, when looking at product line (automotive wise) from top to bottom, i like what nissan has to offer better. but c'mon, for what honda's demographic is, they hit the proverbial bullseye with the accord, odessy (sp?), integra/rsx, and older civic.

show; but for reliablity and ultimate power, sorry, a good old sr20de will smoke a LOT of newer hondas... those old ser sr20de's really cook

ultimate power......i can't really debate that. all i can say is, how many people are actually concerned with ultimate power? i think the sr20 is kickass, i'd much rather have it than my current powerplant.

Jim;
all of your statements except 8 and 9 are personal preference issues. and me, i don't concern myself with drag racing, so 9 doesn't matter to me either. which leaves 1 reason to dislike honda, FWD, coincidentaly, it's the same thing i don't like about them.

fodive; not bitch about usless points.
i just hate it when people give out useless information. i especially despise people that state their own opinion as fact. if i'm not sure about an issue or point, i'll say so (ie; head gasket point), then people can make their own decision.

griffon; why is it that you still haven't told me how to double clutch? i've got an event next weekend, and i really think it will help me finish higher, so if you could tell me when and how to do it, it'd be appreciated &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> . also, i still don't understand the importance of this "ratio." you speak of. i would hope that you could shine your light of knowledge down on us all.

[rrx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 06 2002,02:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 06 2002,01:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There goes those words again, Honda and VTEC. I will admit Honda's aren't bad cars. I make that statement because I don't stereotype cars by their owners. However, when looking at Honda cars mechanically, I have to say there is not much to be astonished by. I have my favorites, the ITR, CTR, and NSX, but the run of the mill VTEC is nothing impressive. Honda's can be fast but that takes a lot of work. They have low torque ratios, and regardless of how much HP you have, torque moves your damn car (VIPER HP=500, VIPER TORQUE=500, perfect ratio, fast car, think about it) Now onto the VTEC. Sure it's a boost of power, but you have to rev your engine into 5500 rpms before it decides to kick in. That is a weak power band. Honda has good marketing and a great hold on the aftermarket that is why it has such a following. Don't be mistaken, Honda is not untouchable, and while they may deserve some respect, they certainly don't deserve the ass kissing that some people (pay attention tnord) give them. nuff said.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
oh boy did you walk into this.

i don't see how VTEC is nothing to be impressed by. considering it was developed in the ?mid 80's? and is still an extremely effective method over 20 years later is quite the achievement. i am by no means claiming that honda was the first to develop a vvt system, but i'm willing to bet their near the top. do you know of a way to have 4 different cam profiles on only two sticks? can you figure out a way to transition between those cam's without damaging rocker arms (does vtec use a rocker arm, or do the cams act "directly" on the valves themselves?) or the cam itself? how about this, VTEC is one of the main reasons that honda's are flying under the DOT?/EPA? gov't radar for fuel economy standards. how about this......by using VTEC honda has the ability to appeal to 2 separate demographics at once. both the "cars are a point A to B tool" crowd, and the "i want to go fast" crowd, all with the same car, for the same price. not only has VTEC enhanced the engineering side of the company, but it helps keep the company operating in the black as well (do you know what, in the black means?) basic VTEC may not be a nobel prize winning technique, of course BMW's Valvetronic system is vastly superior, but as i stated, VTEC is not exactly new.

and about this whole torque thing.....torque doesn't really matter if you got REVS (yes i'm aware that torque is a measure of twisting force (force x length) and without any of that force you go nowhere). in case you didn't know.....hp is just a measurement of (torque x RPM)/5250, so you see, it really doesn't matter what you have, ftlbs, or RPM's, it comes out the same. by your theory our 240's should walk all over a Si, but they don't. why? because the Si has 2000 usable rpm's on us. who cares if you gotta get to 5500 rpm before something interesting happens, the next 2500 rpm is all you need if you want to go fast. how the fuck is that a weak powerband? ours is from what, 4-6 grand? i know if i see my rpm below 4500 on the throttle application point of a corner i'll grab a lower gear next time around. sure, torque is good for everyday driving and low gear, low speed corners, but in pure performance applications, i'll take the high strung screamer please. and what is this "perfect ratio" you speak of? hp/ftlbs? i've never heard of this. if it is of any significance, please explain. the viper is a fast car cause it's got 10 FREAKIN CYLINDERS AND TIRES THE SIZE OF A KING SIZE BED. the viper is not a part of this discussion, it impresses me in no way. honda has great marketing? their main market is the everyday family that just need a reliable car. they don't put much effort into the performace side of things. and who's kissing up to honda? i think honda as a company is amazing, and it's no secret i like their engines, but their only reasonably affordable sports car is a convertable, and everyone knows if you want performance you gotta have an enclosed roof and rwd. why would i kiss their ass for that? if you wanna see me kiss ass, lets talk about BMW.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No flames intended (notice I say nothing bad about Honda, Nissan, or whatever) but just want to clarify Honda was middle of the pack in developing variable valve timing/cam lift technology - definitely not the first - in terms of "developing" VTEC. They just marketed it more aggressively. The other manufacturers did not utilize this technology because their marketing folks thought people wanted big torquey engines (and it's true if you think of the casual non-enthusiast which accounts for 95% of the market). BMW had that type of technology in the 70's, MBZ in the 60's, GM had it in the 70's - but never used it because they cater to an American "displacement is king" market mentality. Mitsubishi, Toyota, and yes Nissan came out with a vtec like thing about the same time Honda did - they were all just slower to implement it into production cars because their marketing folks dropped the ball. Something to think about - (I'm 1/4 Japanese so I'm allowed this insight) - Japanese people don't innovate, they just do a damn good job of improving upon the innovations of others. The same applies for VTEC. It's just part of our culture.

I actually don't see the hype nor am I very impressed with all this vtec or vtec-like stuff. I think the true engineering marvel is the rotary engine. Developed in 50's by MBZ and later sold the technology to Mazda. In terms of HP per liter of displacement, the rotary has anything beat out there. The new RX-8 will put something between 260-280 at the crank on 1.3 liters of displacement naturally aspirated. If more people adopted rotary technology, I'm sure all the problems associated with rotaries would get ironed out.

[rrx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 06 2002,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2) The ITR and the GTR have higher compression, but that is not because of just a head gasket (where the hell did you get that from anyway?)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Pistons are different, but yes you can change compression w/ head gasket - not necessarily a good idea though.

[tnord]

i'm not saying you're lying, but can you tell me what the first models of Mitsu/niss/toyo cars that had a vvt system on them, because frankly, i don't remember. i am by no means saying that they hadn't figured out how to do it, i'm just concerned with who put it into production first.

[rrx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (thewholefnshow @ July 06 2002,08:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure and simple, hondas that come to north america are much closer to their japanese counterparts than nissans.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Best point made so far. It's true. If Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Mazda brought their good engines over here, Honda would not be the best selling Japanese cars in America. The market conditions would be the same as they are in Japan... where Hondas do not sell very well at all. It's somewhat of a trip last time I was in Japan. For every Honda I saw, I'd see 4 Toyotas, 5 Nissans, and 2-3 Mitsubishis. Whereas here in the US, the ratios are reversed.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rrx @ July 06 2002,1:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (thewholefnshow @ July 06 2002,08:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure and simple, hondas that come to north america are much closer to their japanese counterparts than nissans.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Best point made so far. It's true. If Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Mazda brought their good engines over here, Honda would not be the best selling Japanese cars in America. The market conditions would be the same as they are in Japan... where Hondas do not sell very well at all. It's somewhat of a trip last time I was in Japan. For every Honda I saw, I'd see 4 Toyotas, 5 Nissans, and 2-3 Mitsubishis. Whereas here in the US, the ratios are reversed.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well over in my fantasy land they have 300hp, 2000lb, 6sp, mid-rear layout with rwd, and a street legal engine that revs to 20grand. but those cars aren't available here, so we really shouldn't concern ourselves with them within the context of this discussion. it's interesting to see what parts we can steal from them, or why we don't get them. but when comparing cars sold here in the US, let the discussion have some boundaries, and keep it within the borders.

[Zemus]

Hondas arent all that bad, its just that some wanabes drive them and it ruins the name of the car. &nbsp;My buddy raced a B20 Civic (CRV engine) my buddy has a 85 5.0 Mustang and he got beat. &nbsp;tnord if you were at Plato last night, you might have seen it, it was kinda close, but i agree i dont like it when they deck out old as ones, other than CRXs, those are quick lil cars 86s are the best

[240sx_soon]

I dont really see what the hate is all about. Honda's make really great cars and great NA engines.

I own both a 98 civic with a b16 swap and a '91 240sx that's going to get a sr20det into it.

My civic can definately beat a stock 240sx and a stock 99-00 civic SI can definately beat a stock 240sx. I haven't really gotten used to my 240sx since I've been saving up for it for about a year now and I just purchased it last week. But so far in MY opinion a Honda CRX Si could hand a 240sx it's ass in handling as well.

JDM honda engines have 10-15+ horsepower more than US.

And if you dont have torque like honda's dont, then the only way to make up for it is increasing the revs. Just cause horsepower is horsepower and torque is torque doesn't mean that it isn't physics. A high torque-low reving engine can pull something the same distance at the same time as a lower torque-high reving engine.

Once a while ago, i've seen a video of a 220 horsepower civic hb gutted and a rev limit of 13,500. I think it either ran 12's or very high 10's. I dont remember exactly. But that goes to show you that torque isn't exactly everything.


now back to the original subject: Just because the driver is a homo riceboy fag doesnt mean the car is. I'm sure if the honda could, it'd cry. And if the honda was driving around like an idiot thinking he was fast... and...you went ahead and raced him...doesnt that make you the same?

I've seen 240sx's with 20' high wings and huge wheels and crome. It's not just only to honda's, dumb owners do dumb things.

When I got my license when I was 17, my parents bought me a civic. I really do love that car a lot, I'm a proud honda owner and I couldn't torture my car and put 20 million stickers or airplane wings. My car looks 100% stock. So, it's not like all honda owners are ricers. Sure I've got an exhaust and it makes a deep 4 banger NA sounds, just like the sound a stock 240sx with exhaust would sound.

Just cause you own a nissan, doesnt mean it's the number 1 company in the world.

Judge a car on how it comes out from the dealership. Judge a persons car on what the PERSON did to it.

[Kreator]

eeeeh nobody locked this yet? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

anyways. The only car i like is the civic hatch (dunnow what gen but the one around 1993) for the reasons that a. it's light, b. it can run 13 secs all motor and c. that with very few modifications (compared to a 240sx) it will run faster than the 240 that was really invested into. And i plan on getting one later on (2-3 yrs) if i'll need a kinda fast daily commuter....

I still think that hondas are overpriced for what they are. And i hate what is being done to them. They are economy cars. Did you notice that the only real sports car they have is the NSX which costs more than a viper?

[SilviaDriver]

<!--QuoteBegin--tnord+July 06 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 06 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>6)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...and besides, if i was gonna trade in my 240, it'd be for an itr or rsx-s. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
AMEN...well for the ITR..i know i would trade my 95 240 for a 2000 ITR..but not 100% sure for a RSX Type S..mayb 50 50

[Yosho]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nrcooled @ July 06 2002,08:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An interesting little tid-bit to chew on is the fact that Honda is not that popular in the tuning world in Japan. Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi own the streets there. Do they know something we don't....hell YEAH They understand that f/r layout and numerous turbo aplications make the above mentioned manufacture's cars superior. I know this is a bit off subject but just something interesting <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hmmm I'm wondering though, who sells more cars in Japan? &nbsp;Nissan or Honda? &nbsp;Honda. &nbsp;Who was bought by a non Japanese company (a sin in Japan) because they pretty much went bankrupt? Nissan (Mazda was the first to my knowledge).

I love Nissans, have worked on Nissans for a living... but let's get real here folks. &nbsp;What we're really arguing over is personal taste more than anything else. &nbsp;I prefer Coke over Pepsi but that doesn't make Coke better. &nbsp;I own an '00 Si. &nbsp;They're wonderful cars... amazing engines, but there are countless reasons why I prefer my SE-R's. &nbsp;(The 240sx is not in the same class of car so I wouldn't be a fair comparison).

Tnord is abraisive in his responses... but I basically agree with him. &nbsp;To say that Nissan is better in all respects than Honda is just ignorant. &nbsp;To say that Tq is king and Hp means nothing is foolish. &nbsp;To say that Tires will only shave a few 10's is stupid (power is nothing without traction). &nbsp;In fact, to carry on this thread would mean we're worse than ClubSi. &nbsp;woot.

[drift into a curb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ July 06 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I still think that hondas are overpriced for what they are. And i hate what is being done to them. They are economy cars. Did you notice that the only real sports car they have is the NSX which costs more than a viper?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yeah $80k+ for a nsx. &nbsp;overpriced and over rated in my opinion.

[silviasichigo]

Man Yoshi I thought you knew the biggest market player in Japan is SUZUKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Suzuki FOEVERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'> hehe J/K

[blaqsilvia]

I LOVE NISSAN-- thats all I got to say-- I have the utmost respect for there cars.. everyone else.. pppbbbhhh.. w/e.. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[Loren]

Why does this guy keep sending me PMs?


"Please find someone else to tag behind and flame....I'm growing uncomfortable....what the hell did I do to you in the first place?? I was minding my own business giving advice, and here you come butting the hell in trying to flame and shit and ruined that damn post. I don't want you posting after me because all you do is flame, you don't provide any insight, you don't give any help, you are useless for anything except flaming someone, and you can't even do that right. I DON"T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU...... "

I flamed you because you said whack shit and someone needed to put you in your place. I don't view my self as useless, and i think i flame pretty decently. your flaming me for flaming, so who can't flame? If you really wanted this to die, you'd quit sending me private messages and get a new username, but the second you say something stupid again (even though i'll have no clue its you) i'll set you straight. I don't target you Griffon, i target idiots, you just happen to be one of the biggest one on this board. I don't have favorites, i like some of the people on this board, but if they were to say something stupid, i'd call them out, thats just how i am, a "troll" i suppose. im sorry that i don't hold back from making sure this board isn't full of bullshit advice. well actually im not, i wish when i flamed you, you thought about it, and took heed to my advice about knowing what your posting instead of striking out like an animal and making a post war and having pointless threads like this.

[uuninja]

Loren, Give is a rest. No one cares about your fude with Griffon2k. Leave your private conversatoins private!

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (uuninja @ July 11 2002,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Loren, Give is a rest. No one cares about your fude with Griffon2k. Leave your private conversatoins private!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I second that... &nbsp;Troll's do nothing more than make a heated debate Hostile.. &nbsp;and I haven't seen to many (if any) things come from Griffons posts, but at least he was nice enough TO THE REST OF US to take it to PM and not put stupid shit on the board. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

Griffon- Thank you for not posting in this thread anymore.. it is the first thing you've done so far that I respect. keep it up. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Foxcolt]

I haven't read all the way through this post. Probably won't.

I just wanted to tell you guys my experience. I neither particularly hate hondas nor to I over like them. nuff said.

here's the story.

I roll down to the races (illegal). Eveyone's standing around not doing much. Then these honda boys roll up. two integras one type R and one civic hatch.

Of course I want to race the type R. So a couple of friends and I roll up to where they are parked and challange the type R. He backs down saying that the guy in the hatch will race. Green 5th gen hatch CF hood Spoon black wheels. Ask the guy to race. He says how much I say 50 he says 100. By now I'm a tad nervous. I say whatcha got? He tells me all motor 1.8 liter.

Either a b18c or the c5. Either way I know I'll take it. As I'm talking to him (he doesn't want to open his hood) I look in his cabin. Super AFC. Why would an all motor civic run a Fuel controller? Either way it's too far to back out now so we go ahead and get ready to run. I bump up to 1 bar "just in case". We take off at the line and I take him in first. Then he hits second gear and just started pulling. Hard to! All through the gears he slowly pulled ahead of me. Nothing I could do about it. 100 bucks gone....

Come to find out.... (small world) I ran against a 12.2 second civic. ALL MOTOR. must have been running 11:1 or 12:1 compression big cams bigger injectors and the fuel computer to adjust vtec. I simple got my ass handed to me, nothing I can do about it.

I started thinking about my past experieces with my car. Here's a brief list of my major losses in my car. (you'll see the point in a sec)

Buy the car 95 S14, intake exhaust, tired motor. Get beat by civic SI

Buy nitrous oxide, intake exhaust, tired motor, Blow the motor racing a Prelude. (won though)

Buy SR, blah blah, great motor, Get beat by.... guess what? Honda. Time for a bigger turbo.

Who rules my life? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>