another dumb safc thread

[trybal]

So i have a sr20.. like every other person. Have 555cc injectors and was running it with my safcII on a mild tune just to get around. So i installed a z32 mafs and the car won't run. It will start and chug then die. No matter what i change the settings too. 1 in 7 out, 2-6, 1-5 1-5 etc... I can't figure the crap out, and when it does chug black smoke comes outta the ass.

[johngriff]

2 in 6 out.

-35% to -40% across the board.

Black smoke = rich.

Didnt we talk about the safc allready?

[boosteds13]

I'd be scared running -35 to -40 on the SAFC. That must wreak havoc on ignition timing.

[trybal]

haha yeah we did talk about it already... but shh. i can't do anything about it right now cause im broke. without the z32 maf i was running -20 across the board and 0 for 800-1400 and it ran fine.

But with the z32 it won't even start..

And i am driving it yes, but im keeping it under positive boost till i get it tuned. No boost driving sucks

[johngriff]

pull down more fuel. It is even richer w/the z afm, the z afm you really dont need. With our old car with a 60trim we were running -30%ish at 14lbs with 550cc and a z afm.

[trybal]

wow, thats way rich. when the key is turned to on, the safc is reading a signal flow of 20.. is that normal with the z32?

[kris]

really the only way to get the AFR right is on the dyno or a Wideband. i dyno'd my car and got weird settings something the butt dyno would have never arrived at. When I get a chance i will get the settings, keep in mind whether and altitude will play some part in the settings, so every car will be different. right now my car is running on a Z32, 550's, and a t25 14psi, like I said I will get the settings i am running and post them up

[trybal]

thats my exact setup, at sea level.. Let me know, thanks man

[ballr858]

what were your dyno results kris?

[kuramaya]

Man I just posted in a thread yesterday about the SAFC. You really should read my writeup which is available in the FAQ section. It is for Z32 MAFS install. BTW I have 550's, 256 Cams/Gears, RAS, HG, and the other stuff and made 299 to the wheels. You can run with an SAFC II with these MODs just not the best route. WITHOUT A WIDEBAND, USING AN SAFC TO TUNE CAR WILL LEAD TO A DEAD SR. Just so you know.
Late
Daryl

[kris]

Man I just posted in a thread yesterday about the SAFC. You really should read my writeup which is available in the FAQ section. It is for Z32 MAFS install. BTW I have 550's, 256 Cams/Gears, RAS, HG, and the other stuff and made 299 to the wheels. You can run with an SAFC II with these MODs just not the best route. WITHOUT A WIDEBAND, USING AN SAFC TO TUNE CAR WILL LEAD TO A DEAD SR. Just so you know.
Late
Daryl


agree about the dead Sr thing. Results of what i had done were 230whp 240 TQ-on the 15th dyno pull of the day, lol. My t25 is just to small to produce any good numbers and my car was getting heat soaked. I have a new turbo on the way and will use the AFC to tune it as well, well will see how that goes, until I can afford an Enthalpy tune or something
BTW I will get those numbers AFC settings right now and post them after lunch.

[kris]

well heres the settings on my car as stated before z32, 555's, and a t25 at 14psi. i also live at a higher altitude than most, which means thinner air and less oxygen. I also tuned this at about 40 degrees F so in the summer it does run a bit richer than it should. in the conditons I mentioned the settings netted a 11.5 AFR on the high setting and something like 14.1 on low setting (could be leaner for better gas mileage). As mentioned before this is for my car, yours will be different but this may get you going until you can get a wide band on it or get to a dyno.

the decel function is set per instructions on zeroyon.com (used for atmospheric vented BOV)

in and out settings at 2 in and 6 out

lo throttle 17% high throttle 50%

lo settings
-14 1000 rpm
-20 2200
-18 2600
-17 3200
-20 3400
-22 4000
-23 4600
-20 5200
-19 5800
-18 6400
-17 7000
-16 7600

high settings
+11 adjustments have the same corresponding RPMs as above adjustments
+13
+14
+11
-11
-17
-14
-10
-7
-9
-11
-10


hope this helps

[trybal]

the loww is about what i have mine set at. its 20 across the boards. but my car seems to run best at 1 in 7 out

[kuramaya]

^^ Then you (a) do not have a Z32 MAFS. Or (b) you are starting to fuck shit up already. Zero out the damn SAFC Settings that you but dyno registered and then try the correct SAFC settings for Z32 MAFS.:hammer:
"anyone know what happend, my car is jacked"

[trybal]

what do you mean i don't have a z32 mafs. haha, I know i have one. so cancel that. The correct settings for the z32 are 2-6. but most people i read say it runs better on 1-7, and mine does as well.

[kuramaya]

Also if you use that guys settings up there for your car as a start with a wideband attached that is not so bad and start with easy runs to tune. If you use that guys settings up there without a wideband your gonna fuck shit up. You can take 2 of the exact same cars, same mods, same everything and the settings will be completely different. I'm not trying to be a dick, I am trying to help you out.

You said this:
"So i have a sr20.. like every other person. Have 555cc injectors and was running it with my safcII on a mild tune just to get around. So i installed a z32 mafs and the car won't run"

My question is how did you get this "mild" tune dialed in? You can not tell your car is leaning out as well as you can if it is overly rich. What is your fuel pressure set at? This is also a big deal with using the guys settings up there. Does he have a Walbro or equivalent? DO you? does he have an FPR? Do you? What Bar is his FPR set at? How about yours? Do you run a FPG. Anyway good luck and be nice to your motor.

[trybal]

yeah, well as of now, im not boosting on my car, im kicking it around under 0 lbs of boost cause i don't wanna fuck shit up. I have a walbro and a fpr, but the fpr isn't installed since i don't have a gauge to use when installing it. as for the car not running with the z32, that was just my bad its fixed now. And the mild tune, isn't really a mild tune, its just some adverage settings. I purchasing a wideband as well so i don't have to pay for dyno tunes all the time

[kris]

the FPR is stock and the fuel pump is a walboro. the settings as I said should work but as I pointed out and now bjorkluv has pointed out every car is different and getting a wide band, which is something you are going to be doing, is the only way to truely tune your set up.

However using my settings will not fuck up the car, will your car run in the best condition ever? NO. Will it run good enough for a week or so providing your not taking it to track days and such? YES.

We can have a "yes Huh" "Nuu Uhh" battle that will rage on for eons about this issue if you would like but it will be a waste of everyones time. I am simply pointing out using my settings will give it a base line until you can get to the dyno or get a wide band on it. As of right now we are not dealing with some crazy high boost or large turbo applications we are simply compensating for a slightly larger maf and larger injectors. As a matter of fact I drove my car about a hundred miles to the dyno when I installed the injectors and maf, did it fuck it up, nope but then again I was "nice" to it all the way there IE little boost and plenty of grandma driving. As i have said before everyone has a different opinion on everything, and the best thing to do is create your own opinion so you too can argue on the message boards:D

[trybal]

i appreciate everyones input whether helpfull or not. Its good that people try and help others out without money shoved in their faces. I ordered a AEM wideband meter today so hopefully it will be here soon enough. I usualy don't drive my car during the week anyways so we are good :-D

on top of that. Whats a happy medium reading as far as o2 gases are concerned on the gauge?

[kris]

i appreciate everyones input whether helpfull or not. Its good that people try and help others out without money shoved in their faces. I ordered a AEM wideband meter today so hopefully it will be here soon enough. I usualy don't drive my car during the week anyways so we are good :-D

on top of that. Whats a happy medium reading as far as o2 gases are concerned on the gauge?


depends, 11.5:1 is best on the high throttle shoot for between 11 and 12. On the low throttle generally running pretty lean is what your want for regular around town driving something like 15:1 to 16:1 range.

Just incase you dont know the lower in values your go the richer the mixure is and the higher you go the leaner it is so for example 11.5:1 is richer than 15:1

[trybal]

awesome, that helps thanks!!

[johngriff]

You really bought the aem? Much disapointment. You have paid more for less my son. Using the uego package, you have confined yourself to a very dangerous life of street tunning, if you were going to street tune, the least you could have done is purchase a wideband system that featured data logging, so you could pull off the road after the run, to review the performance. Unfortunately now you will be watching the guage, while driving, and attempting to remember the RPM at which you saw which afr. With out critical data logging graphs, this renders a wideband useless.

My suggestion on the SAFC II and a safe AF/R is 10.9-11/1 at Full Throttle. I recomend this because of unforseen changes in the timing map. I also like to keep the af/r richer than 14.7 any time there is load on the engine (everything except for decel).

My SAFC cars usually run, Rich at idle, leaner building into boost (13/1 from 0-7psi), then rich 11/1 at and after 7psi. You will be rich at idle no matter what, and you will see nice acceleration set up like this.

Oh yeah, links.

PLX Devices. Good quality, good price.

http://www.plxdevices.com/


Innovate Motorsports. Proven, high quality, affordable, the LM-1 sounds like what you need.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

Do you have a computer(s) (laptop?) btw? (obviously the desktop) Since the LM-1 Records on board, you can just unplug it, take it inside, and open the log on the desktop.


kris: "were 230whp 240 TQ" Is the end result of bad timing.

Our newest blessed friend, made 220 Hp, with the HKS GT2535 Using an SAFC II and 370cc injectors. After 10psi at 4000 RPM, we could not get it richer than 16/1 !!! The SAFC is scary stuff.

Injector Open time with the SAFC maxed out was 13.1ms. I have cranked a stock 370cc injector to 28ms, and there still might be more fuel there. That is TWICE as much fuel gone missing!!

Point and case, after the Haltech, we are taking him back to the dyno, we will then post up numbers of a stock SR. with the HKS tGT2535 on the SAFC II vs the Haltech. We hope to reach he full potential of the GT2535 (340ps as advertised by HKS) on the 370cc's. So if we can net 260HP or so to the wheels, we have done our job.

[trybal]

lol^^ and i get shot down again.. when will it end :( ... I won't street tune by myself. I think the best bet would be to record my safc and aem while making runs, then review it.

[kris]

You really bought the aem? Much disapointment. You have paid more for less my son. Using the uego package, you have confined yourself to a very dangerous life of street tunning, if you were going to street tune, the least you could have done is purchase a wideband system that featured data logging, so you could pull off the road after the run, to review the performance. Unfortunately now you will be watching the guage, while driving, and attempting to remember the RPM at which you saw which afr. With out critical data logging graphs, this renders a wideband useless.

My suggestion on the SAFC II and a safe AF/R is 10.9-11/1 at Full Throttle. I recomend this because of unforseen changes in the timing map. I also like to keep the af/r richer than 14.7 any time there is load on the engine (everything except for decel).

My SAFC cars usually run, Rich at idle, leaner building into boost (13/1 from 0-7psi), then rich 11/1 at and after 7psi. You will be rich at idle no matter what, and you will see nice acceleration set up like this.

Oh yeah, links.

PLX Devices. Good quality, good price.

http://www.plxdevices.com/


Innovate Motorsports. Proven, high quality, affordable, the LM-1 sounds like what you need.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

Do you have a computer(s) (laptop?) btw? (obviously the desktop) Since the LM-1 Records on board, you can just unplug it, take it inside, and open the log on the desktop.


kris: "were 230whp 240 TQ" Is the end result of bad timing.

Our newest blessed friend, made 220 Hp, with the HKS GT2535 Using an SAFC II and 370cc injectors. After 10psi at 4000 RPM, we could not get it richer than 16/1 !!! The SAFC is scary stuff.

Injector Open time with the SAFC maxed out was 13.1ms. I have cranked a stock 370cc injector to 28ms, and there still might be more fuel there. That is TWICE as much fuel gone missing!!

Point and case, after the Haltech, we are taking him back to the dyno, we will then post up numbers of a stock SR. with the HKS tGT2535 on the SAFC II vs the Haltech. We hope to reach he full potential of the GT2535 (340ps as advertised by HKS) on the 370cc's. So if we can net 260HP or so to the wheels, we have done our job.


your right an Afc tune is not nearly as good as you would get with a stand alone or something like an enthalpy tune-but then again they are two to three times more in price-the afc will get you down the road and will work until you can get a stand alone or a custom tune and even with a custom tune an AFC is a nice thing to have.

The AEM wideband can hook up to a data logging system but it does not come with it and then you need a laptop for the data logging- would the innovative or the plx of been an even better choice yeah but they cost more an are still no better than the AEM if you dont have a laptop lying around


and the 230hp was seen on the 17th run of the day in about a 2 hr time span-so heat soak was an issue-could timing of been better if I would of had a custom tune-sure but why would I want a custom tune for injectors and a maf only?

doing things the most perfect way is always more, but unlike the people who have money pouring out their rears some of us must upgrade in steps;) and thats where things like the AFC comes in