S14: Crushed 'frame rail'...is there a fix or does it not matter?

[alkemyst]

I have had this since I owned the car (2+ years)...was not my doing.

http://driftkat.com/images/Alkemyst98SE_CrushedRail.jpg

What's the process/cost to fix this and does it matter?

I can't 'tell' anything wrong with it as is.

Å

[krustindumm]

I would guess that it being flattened like that makes it significantly weaker, so maybe have a body shop replace that section. I was thinking of stitching some channel steel over the frame sections on my S13 to prevent damage like that, maybe you could do something similar.

[alkemyst]

no need to prevent anymore...I turn almost all wrenchs on my car...I am dreading going in for an alignment/wheel balancing, coolant flush, and trans oil change (manual)....

[spdfreek0o]

WTF happened? That definetly needs to be fixed. May/ Probably will cause alignment problems. What a body shop would probably do is: remove interior pieces, pull carpet back, put on frame rack/machine and pull/ beat the rail into submission, measure frame before/after, drill out section of rail, final metal work, mock up "new" rail, weld in, grind, undercoat, back on fram rack for final measurements, interior goes back in. Pretty much what would happen. Pretty easy job, not too expensive, but not cheap either.

[alkemyst]

WTF happened? That definetly needs to be fixed. May/ Probably will cause alignment problems. What a body shop would probably do is: remove interior pieces, pull carpet back, put on frame rack/machine and pull/ beat the rail into submission, measure frame before/after, drill out section of rail, final metal work, mock up "new" rail, weld in, grind, undercoat, back on fram rack for final measurements, interior goes back in. Pretty much what would happen. Pretty easy job, not too expensive, but not cheap either.

I am looking for people with experience in this. My alignment is fine.

I know how it would be fixed, I just need to know a realistic cost and if it's worth it.

I can't tell any problems...I hit RR crossings at 60mph + as well :)

[projectRDM]

That would have NO effect on alignment. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read on here.
With a unibody car, the frame rails in question are more the 'backbone' of the floorpan rather than actual structural pieces. The damaged section above is single wall and doesn't have any bearing on the car's integrity, it's strictly cosmetic.

[shayrgob240]

That would have NO effect on alignment. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read on here.
With a unibody car, the frame rails in question are more the 'backbone' of the floorpan rather than actual structural pieces. The damaged section above is single wall and doesn't have any bearing on the car's integrity, it's strictly cosmetic.

lol. thanks for getting to that before me

[shortandsour]

That would have NO effect on alignment. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read on here.
With a unibody car, the frame rails in question are more the 'backbone' of the floorpan rather than actual structural pieces. The damaged section above is single wall and doesn't have any bearing on the car's integrity, it's strictly cosmetic.


it could have an effect on alignment, unibody cars are connected all though out the body if one section gets short it has to get short some where else. example take a piece of paper bend it up in the middle the two oppsite ends will move in towards the center. it may or may not effect alignment, you can never tell untill its done. this is from experence. as far as costs go your looking at tearing up a used car for that rail i belive that nissan does not sell major structural parts for 240sx any more i could be wrong on this. but if you had to replace it i dont think it will be worth the time or money to fix it.

[zaneithan]

same thing happened to me due to my retarded brother, im not sure how much it will cost but i had a frame rail cut out of a junkyard 240 and it cost me 150$ to give you an idea of what a junkyard might cost to cut it out of a car for you

[DJ_Sunrise]

i have an s13 FSM if u want it(computer file) that has the exact specs as far as measurements for the chassis go. grab a tabe measure and check it out for yourself. dont forget to convert from inches to mm. use a string to measure, then lay it down next to tape measure. is that huge dent gonna hurt anything? no. ur chassis is technically stronger. bent mental is dozens of times stronger than unbent piece. hence why when u look at trunk sheet metal, it has the bent rectangle shapes in it. btw, i recommend going on a frame rack every few years, or once a year minimum if you track your car.. regardless if you've been in an accident or not, or if your alignment is good.. on a 15 year old car, itll be the single best improvement as far as handling upgrades are concerned. should be about $400 to go on frame rack tho, check it out. hit me up if u want the FSM. fixing that dent the right way will cost u 2-3k, from my experience. a good welder can just box it up and make it look pretty for a couple hundred. ;) :wiggle:

[zaneithan]

2-3k? i was quoted by my body shop to have it "fixed right" for under 1k

[WilloW]

Looks like part #17 on here -->http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=214086&chapter=ARF3795&appSectionid=51909&groupid=51891&subgroupid=3825&componentid=0&make=25&model=240sx&year=1995&graphicID=3795610&callout=17&catalogid=2
A long time ago, someone gave me the part numbers for the whole frame rail. IIRC none were above $150. It shouldn't be that much to cut off the damaged section and replace it with a new one.

[downshift_sideways]

thats gonna cost an arm and a leg,

I had a coupe, i bought it without looking under the body, ( it was night)
brought it to work, and got under the car, saw major sub fram damage.
parted the car out, got more money.

just my .02

[projectRDM]

it could have an effect on alignment, unibody cars are connected all though out the body if one section gets short it has to get short some where else. example take a piece of paper bend it up in the middle the two oppsite ends will move in towards the center. it may or may not effect alignment, you can never tell untill its done. this is from experence. as far as costs go your looking at tearing up a used car for that rail i belive that nissan does not sell major structural parts for 240sx any more i could be wrong on this. but if you had to replace it i dont think it will be worth the time or money to fix it.

Did you even bother to look at the picture? The frame rail is separated just forward of the damage, it's two pieces anyway. The bent one has just pulled away from the piece in front of it, so no stress has been applied across the floorpan.

[DaPCWiz]

That's the back part of the frame rail, right?

hmmm the frame rail is actually two pieces, the front is the actual metal frame rail, and the back piece, although coated with the undercoating, as far as I can tell is just plastic. After my last S14 got totaled, the police impound used a fork lift to move the car around... when I got the car back that same spot in the "frame rail" was crushed (although not as badly as the one pictured). The car was totaled anyway, so not an issue... but on closer inspection it definately looked like plastic. I personally wouldn't worry about that rear section of the "frame rail" i don't really know if it does anything useful.

then again I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion...

[koukimonster139]

hmm seeing as how the suspension is attatched to the sub frame, and the subframe is bolted to the unibody, it will have some minimal affect on alignment due to the fact that that is part of the unibody. I work in a collision repair shop and have done many sections with damage like this. The rail may not be damaged all the way up to where the subframe meets the unibody, but you have to think about indirect damage. With that being pushed up so far, it has undoubltedly pulled part of the unibody with it. Either way it needs to be pulled on a framerack so that it is somewhat back to where it needs to be, and then it needs to be sectioned using an insert. It is not plastic, and it does do a lot useful, including keeping the passenger compartment from crumpling up during a collision and reinforcing the structure of the vehicle so that it can withstand the weight of itself and the dumbass way you drive. Anyway its definetly worth it if you want your car to ever have any resale value and be structurally sound.

[DaPCWiz]

hmmm I guess it's the coating on it then or its relatively thin metal. The front part of the frame rail seems to be much thicker and more sound than the rear part.

[SimpleS14]

It's really thin metal with some plastic before you get to the floorpan. I honestly don't think that will effect your alignment, and if you insist on bracing that area you can get some Do-Luck braces.

[Broaner]

If you don't care about chassis stiffness I don't think its a problem. I agree that it could weaken the chassis but its nothing you need to worry about if its just a daily.

[fromxtor]

I say box it in w/ some thicker metal.

[krustindumm]

no need to prevent anymore...I turn almost all wrenchs on my car...I am dreading going in for an alignment/wheel balancing, coolant flush, and trans oil change (manual)....


Do the fluid exchanges yourself. Most shops just do a drain and fill anyway. Pop the petcock on the radiator, feed the coolant to the stray animals or something (j/k), and fill the bitch back up. If you can find a tool truck buy a coolant bleeding funnel (~$25), they work amazing. For the tranny fluid just get a fluid pump, autozone has em for under $10.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis22150.html
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mtn2505.html

I know in your case prevention is out of the question, but if you cut out the damaged section and used the channel to connect the whole length (bridging the cut gap) then connect the channel to the floor pan with some sheetmetal. Fixed and way stronget than before. Think of it like those shoes with grindplates or whatever.

[trsilvias13]

on the jdm s13 that part of the frame doesnt exist only one side have it. I know cuz I have a jdm s13.

[koukimonster139]

awesome thats an s14

[alkemyst]

Do the fluid exchanges yourself. Most shops just do a drain and fill anyway. Pop the petcock on the radiator, feed the coolant to the stray animals or something (j/k), and fill the bitch back up. If you can find a tool truck buy a coolant bleeding funnel (~$25), they work amazing. For the tranny fluid just get a fluid pump, autozone has em for under $10.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis22150.html
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mtn2505.html

I know in your case prevention is out of the question, but if you cut out the damaged section and used the channel to connect the whole length (bridging the cut gap) then connect the channel to the floor pan with some sheetmetal. Fixed and way stronget than before. Think of it like those shoes with grindplates or whatever.

I have done coolant changes...just too much water to do it right and I am not just going to let it run in the street.

The trans I can get covered with the coolant flush as a one price service.

It's really the time as well, I'd rather be detailing my car or doing something more performance oriented than basic maintenance :). I don't even bother with oil changes when the dealer does them for $14.

[spdfreek0o]

so no stress has been applied across the floorpan. Actually you can see in the picture that the floorpan was effected. If you need credentials I went to a 2 year technical school for collision repair and graduated in the top 5 out of almost 40. I've also worked at a body shop for an internship. Even basic autobody knowledge can tell you that Sometimes, not always, will an alignment problem be caused by frame damage. I stated in my earlier post May/ Probably will cause alignment problems A short rail will cause the frame to be short on that side which effects tracking. As far as boxing the rails, I wouldn't do that unless it was a track only car. Vehicle Manufacturers build vehicles to be structurley sound in an accident, If you strengthen part of the chassis and not all you will create a weakness that can cause major problem in the case of an accident.

[g6civcx]

Vehicle Manufacturers build vehicles to be structurley sound in an accident, If you strengthen part of the chassis and not all you will create a weakness that can cause major problem in the case of an accident.

The industry trains technicians to recognise the fact that technicians are not attorneys or engineers. Technicians should only repair according to specs because they lack the background to modify the design.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying that's how they do it.

[alkemyst]

As far as I can tell there the floorpan was not moved at all.

In my alignments as far as the shop could tell the car was straight.

[spdfreek0o]

In my alignments as far as the shop could tell the car was straight.
I'm sure it's within specs. Last time I had my alignment done I checked with the alignment tech and he told me that the specs for camber on the front of my "s13" was 0-1.9. So specs could be different from side to side, which is ok for regular street driving. Any agressive driving and you could experience any number of symptoms of a bad alignment, uneven tire wear, pull to the left or right, high speed wobble...

[bimmerlover]

From that picture the OT posted, it seems like he/she/they jacked up the car on the weaker, more thinner part of the rail, which would explain why the crushed area is at one spot. Jack up the thicker part next time.