Woman who drowned her 5 children found NOT GUILTY

[OMGWTFBBQ]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/26/yates.trial.ap/index.html

Yates not guilty by reason of insanity
Jury reached verdict after three days

Wednesday, July 26, 2006; Posted: 1:14 p.m. EDT (17:14 GMT)

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A jury found Andrea Yates not guilty by reason of insanity in the drowning deaths of her young children in the bathtub of their suburban home.

Yates will be committed to a state mental hospital, with periodic hearings before a judge to determine whether she should be released. If convicted, she would have faced life in prison.

The jury spent 11 hours Monday and Tuesday trying to determine if Yates was legally insane. Wednesday morning, they reviewed the state's definition of insanity and then asked to see a family photo and candid pictures of the five smiling youngsters.

After about an hour of deliberations, they said they had reached a verdict.

In Yates' first murder trial, in 2002, the jury deliberated about four hours before finding her guilty. That conviction was overturned on appeal.

In both trials, Yates, 42, pleaded innocent by reason of insanity. Under Texas law, a person can be found insane if, because of a severe mental illness, he or she does not know the crime is wrong.

The jury earlier asked to review the videotape of Yates' July 2001 evaluation by Dr. Phillip Resnick, a forensic psychiatrist who testified for the defense that she did not know killing the children was wrong because she was trying to save them from hell.

Resnick told jurors that Yates was in a delusional state and believed 6-month-old Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah would grow up to be criminals because she had ruined them.

Jurors later asked to review Yates' November 2001 videotaped evaluation by Dr. Park Dietz, the state's expert witness whose testimony led an appeals court to overturn Yates' 2002 capital murder conviction last year.

Dietz, a forensic psychiatrist, testified in her first trial that an episode of the television series "Law & Order" depicted a woman who was acquitted by reason of insanity after drowning her children. But no such episode existed. State District Judge Belinda Hill barred attorneys in this trial from mentioning that issue.

On Tuesday, after jurors asked for the trial transcript involving defense attorney George Parnham's questioning of Dietz about the definition of obsessions, the judge brought the jury back into the courtroom.

The court reporter then read the brief transcript, in which Dietz said Yates "believed that Satan was at least present. She felt or sensed the presence." Dietz had testified that Yates' thoughts about harming her children were an obsession and a symptom of severe depression -- not psychosis.

Earlier Tuesday, jurors reviewed the slide presentation of the state's key expert witness, Dr. Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist who evaluated Yates in May. He testified that she did not kill her children to save them from hell as she claims, but because she was overwhelmed and felt inadequate as a mother.


WTF
discuss

[Irukandji]

Bullshit. That crazy bitch needs to be locked up.

[S14DB]

Still be in the loony bin for the rest of her life.

[anthony240]

that's the reason this is so fucked up, she won't be in a crazy house forever. she'll get psychiatric treatment and evaluations, then get released within what, 5 years?

this country sucks, I say the punishment should fit the crime to the tee. if she drowned her kids, she should get drowned as well.

[alexchanman]

the judging system sucks ass. there should be a vote on things like these.

[midnight zenki]

There was a vote, it was conducted by a jury of her peers. The verdict truly changes nothing, as stated she will spend the rest of her days in a mental institution. There is a major misconception that you can be easily released from such institution's but the truth is, a majority of patients senteced to such a facility are never released as the criteria to establish sanity again is extremely strict.

[downshift_sideways]

Thats still some fucking shit man.

Why would she give life, and simply take them away.

Fucking pisses me off. She deserves to DIAF, and go to hell

[bboyt3nsk]

Someone needs to drown her

[SimpleS14]

wow...she is damn guilty and truly insane. That is truly tragic for what happened to the children.

[OptionZero]

Wow, so no one here is considering that she might actually be crazy?

[zaneithan]

wow...if i were her father id drown her and plead insanity saying i was just trying to save her from hell because i ruined her at such a young age


btw im just joking.

[downshift_sideways]

/\/\ hahhahahaha.

lafapalozaaaaaa

[S13SilviaGirl]

Post-partum depression can be a bitch, but, *MOST* women even depressed would never do such a thing.There are the acceptions to everything though; I guess a woman on Yokosuka last year threw her baby and then herself off of the 9th floor of a housing tower. Her baby was only like 4 months old iirc. Sick people. She should have just killed herself and left her kids to live their life.

[OptionZero]

I'm gonna add to my previous post a bit:

I'm pro-death penalty. Heck, I think we should kill certain Zilvia members just for what they post, and that's the honest truth.

I also think that under our justice system, people get off easily for stuff they should be punished for.

I temper that, however, with a few things:

1. This happened in Texas, in a Texas court, with a Texas jury, in a Texas death penalty state. If there's any state that won't hesitate to fry or juice you, it's Texas....and in this case, a buncha Texans decided to let someone who drowned 5 kids go.

If nothing else, I'm gonna give the defense credit for finding a group of Texans who pass up a chance to kill someone.

2. I work in state government; I come across letters Californians write, I talk face to face with constituents, I read about case work, I've talked to people at state agencies whose job is to help solve citizens' problems.

What I've learned is that there are some fucked up people- some of those fucked up people are relatively health, capable individuals who are simply incredibly ignorant, lazy, or stupid. I have no problem laughing when they get run over or shot.

Others, however, are truly a victim of circumstance. We do not all start at the same starting line- and if you don't, it's seriously not your fault. As a result, bad shit happens.

Is it still a bad shit? You bet. But I'd like to think we're civilized enough to make some concessions to help rather than outright punish in some cases.

Now I haven't heard the facts of this case, nor have I met anyone involved (and neither has anyone else here). Yet in this case, we have health professionals, a jury of purpotedly unbiased peers, and yes, even the father [READ THE FULL TEXT OF THE ARTICLE] of those kids saying that this woman should be put in a hospital rather than outright put to death. Somehow, I give credence to those individuals more than some posters on a car forum who read part of a news article about what happened.

Look, I'm not saying this woman's blameless because I simply don't know. I do, however, find it disturbing that a group of strangers so easily jump in and say we should just kill this woman (something in most cases I wouldn't blink at).

Truth requires effort. Reality comes in more colors than black and white.

For example, these two statements are both true:

I bought a 15 year old car with no engine that I can't really afford to take care of and I intend to spend several times as much as its worth on stuff for it.

versus

Yo guys, I just picked up this straight, rust-free S13 rolling chassis with only 5k miles on it, and in the next year, I'll get a V8 swap, custom Penske suspension, and Rays wheels for it!

First statement is made by an idiot. Second is made by a lucky SOB. There's only one person.

[Helghast]

cliff notes?

[JVD]

This pleading insanity rule is just rediculous in my eyes. Isn't anyone who murders someone "insane"? I just feel that, anyone who murders someone is, in one way or another, insane. No sane person would kill someone. In addition, anyone can now plead insanity and make up some story about why they did it. She knew what she was doing was wrong. She waited until her husband left and covered the bodies afterwards. That's good enough for me. What do they consider insanity? What if someone with mental issues went out and killed 20 people. Would they just put the guy in a mental hospital?

I don't know... this shit just makes me sick. I mean WTF? Who kills there own kids and decides to keep their own life? Maybe she'll find a way to take it now...

[downshift_sideways]

I was waiting for someone to get technical in this thread.

I agree with JVD

and everyone else who is deciding to drown that lady.

i hope she DIAL ( die in a lake )

[OptionZero]

This pleading insanity rule is just rediculous in my eyes. Isn't anyone who murders someone "insane"? I just feel that, anyone who murders someone is, in one way or another, insane. No sane person would kill someone. In addition, anyone can now plead insanity and make up some story about why they did it. She knew what she was doing was wrong. She waited until her husband left and covered the bodies afterwards. That's good enough for me. What do they consider insanity? What if someone with mental issues went out and killed 20 people. Would they just put the guy in a mental hospital?

I don't know... this shit just makes me sick. I mean WTF? Who kills there own kids and decides to keep their own life? Maybe she'll find a way to take it now...

Bullshit.

Your family's in danger, the person putting your family in danger is in your sights, and you're holding a gun.

If you don't pull the trigger, you're the one that's insane.

I also believe there are some military servicemen who would be offended by that blanket statement you made that, i'm sure, was not fully thought out.

Have you ever been crazy? Have you ever visited a mental institution? To think that this lady is simply walking away scott free is shortsighted, and, i even say, arrogant and ignorant.

In mental institutions you're fed food others choose, dressed in clothes others picked, pumped full of drugs, and possibly strapped down to furniture.

AGAIN, this verdict does not condone the lady's actions- it merely acknowledges the circumstances leading up to it.

For those saying this lady should up and kill herself, I sincerely hope you one day find yourselves on the receiving end of some criminal charges. Maybe then you'll be hesitant to brush off someone's background or medical conditions.

Who among us can truly consider themselves 100% sane? If you think so, post up your resume, car history, sex history, drug history, medical history, and everything you've ever done. I'll be happy to show you how un-sane you are.

[Ricks15]

That bitch has a one way ticket to hell when she dies.

[mjjstang]

im wastedd but is stil k,now she neests to roote in ehllleeellll

[jonk]

what has my state gone to :(

[RiversideS13]

they should just kill her and stop wasting our tax money to trail her and take care her in the mental hospital. she is hazard for our society

[JVD]

Bullshit.

Your family's in danger, the person putting your family in danger is in your sights, and you're holding a gun.

If you don't pull the trigger, you're the one that's insane.
Notice the two sentences before the one you bolded? I said murder for a reason. This is the one exception. I consider killing someone in self defense protecting yourself, not murder. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
I also believe there are some military servicemen who would be offended by that blanket statement you made that, i'm sure, was not fully thought out.
Please explain. If I offended anyone with this statement I apologize. I'm not familiar with military practice. I think it is pretty obvious I did not say that to offend anyone, but rather emphasize my point.

Have you ever been crazy? Have you ever visited a mental institution? To think that this lady is simply walking away scott free is shortsighted, and, i even say, arrogant and ignorant.Nope, never been crazy. Closest I've ever come was hallucinating from a fever. Saw an orange Darth Vader. Then when I went to sleep I heard rambling outside my room. I knew(imagined) there were bad people around. I didn't go drown my family "to protect them" though.

In mental institutions you're fed food others choose, dressed in clothes others picked, pumped full of drugs, and possibly strapped down to furniture.Sure she did not go "scott free" but there could have been harsher punishment.

AGAIN, this verdict does not condone the lady's actions- it merely acknowledges the circumstances leading up to it.
I understand this but I feel rules like this make it *easier* for criminals avoid harsher punishment.

For those saying this lady should up and kill herself, I sincerely hope you one day find yourselves on the receiving end of some criminal charges. Maybe then you'll be hesitant to brush off someone's background or medical conditions.
Okay then, I hope her husband goes insane and drowns her so she knows what it is like. Would that be better? He's insane though. Me, a criminal? Not likely. If I ever go "insane" enough to kill my entire family, I surely hope someone would put me out of my misery.

Who among us can truly consider themselves 100% sane? If you think so, post up your resume, car history, sex history, drug history, medical history, and everything you've ever done. I'll be happy to show you how un-sane you are.
This one time I smoked pot. I'M CRAZY! What does being 100% sane have to do with anything? I'm saying the law is stupid. So are you saying you could prove everyone here is actually somewhat insane? So we could all go out and start killing people and you would make sure we got into a nut house rather then prison? You could be my defense lawyer.

This is all IMO of course.

[OptionZero]

I think the ignorance of our society in general is more dangerous than any individual psychotic.

Let's burn all the people who can't read or think along with the crazy people. Save a few tax dollars, reduce traffic congestion.

[JVD]

I think the ignorance of our society in general is more dangerous than any individual psychotic.

Let's burn all the people who can't read or think along with the crazy people. Save a few tax dollars, reduce traffic congestion.
You speak about other peoples ignorance with more ignorance than the people you speak of. LOL! I don't even know if that makes sense. You are basically saying everyone that doesn't agree with you is ignorant.

[OptionZero]

Notice the two sentences before the one you bolded? I said murder for a reason. This is the one exception. I consider killing someone in self defense protecting yourself, not murder. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Please explain. If I offended anyone with this statement I apologize. I'm not familiar with military practice. I think it is pretty obvious I did not say that to offend anyone, but rather emphasize my point.

Nope, never been crazy. Closest I've ever come was hallucinating from a fever. Saw an orange Darth Vader. Then when I went to sleep I heard rambling outside my room. I knew(imagined) there were bad people around. I didn't go drown my family "to protect them" though.

Sure she did not go "scott free" but there could have been harsher punishment.


I understand this but I feel rules like this make it *easier* for criminals avoid harsher punishment.


Okay then, I hope her husband goes insane and drowns her so she knows what it is like. Would that be better? He's insane though. Me, a criminal? Not likely. If I ever go "insane" enough to kill my entire family, I surely hope someone would put me out of my misery.


This one time I smoked pot. I'M CRAZY! What does being 100% sane have to do with anything? I'm saying the law is stupid. So are you saying you could prove everyone here is actually somewhat insane? So we could all go out and start killing people and you would make sure we got into a nut house rather then prison? You could be my defense lawyer.

This is all IMO of course.

You made a blanket statement saying that killing is insane. I pointed out that not all killing is insane.

By extension then, you are willing to admit that there are circumstances when bringing about another's death is acceptable.

Why is it so hard to accept the *possibility* then that this woman's case may not also be an instance?

In HER MIND, she was protecting her children. A health professional verified that this is what she believed. Her mental state, however, did not allow her to fully understand the reality of the situation. That is the crux of the matter.

Let's say you see a man apparently threatening your mother. You believe without the shadow of a doubt your mom's in danger. You shoot the man. Later we learn, the man was simply gesturing wildly to sell her vacuum cleaners.

Were your intentions behind pulling the trigger correct? Sure.
Do we excuse your actions? Probably not.

Would it be fair for everyone else to say, hey' let's throw JVD off a lake, we hope he BURNS IN A FIRE! HE SHOULD GO KILL HIMSELF!

Except in this case, her mistaken perceptions were due to her mental condition, not malice.

When I mention sanity, I mean that YOU may very well find yourself making such a mistake, and therefore maybe you should take a moment to consider her circumstances before simply saying, hey's let's whack her because YOU think for sure that she deserves it.

You're no one. You're a guy on an internet forum who read part of a news article about what happened and decided to post anonymously your opinion. Thats ALL you are.

So you think we should kill this lady...but you think killing is something only insane people do? Maybe you're insane. Hey, let's kill you!

There's nothing unfair at all about the insanity plea. If someone is sick, their sickness should be taken into account when evaluating their actions. Besides, are you a doctor? Do you have a medical degree? Psychology degree? No? Then why are you babbling about how we should evaluate people's minds and the rules that govern those evaluations? Because you're an anonymous poster on an internet forum who read part of a new article about this case?

Do we punish infants for making messes on the new couch? Would you sock a handicapped person who accidentally bumps into you? No and no.

So again...there's nothing LIGHT at all about her sentence because again...mental institutions aren't fun.

[OptionZero]

You speak about other peoples ignorance with more ignorance than the people you speak of. LOL! I don't even know if that makes sense. You are basically saying everyone that doesn't agree with you is ignorant.

I'm saying anyone who jumps to a conclusion is ignorant.

Oh, and that they should be killed.

[JVD]

I'm saying anyone who jumps to a conclusion is ignorant.

Oh, and that they should be killed.
She was ignorant for believing Satan was inside of her so you would kill her? I win!

Seriously though, this could go on for ever. I'm gonna stop posting in this thread. We could argue forever over miscommunications and misinterpretations. Oh, and I totally missed the boat on your military statement. Again, sorry for if I offended anyone. There are tons of different situations in which I would make exceptions to killing someone, but this just isn't one of them.

I guess I'M INSANE.

Later dude.

-ignorant Canadian

[kouki_s14]

shes crazy and hopefully shes in the mental hospital for life
but i wanted to say two things
the Post-partum depression arguement is a bit weak in my eyes
i mean she had 5 kids, one was 7
if she really suffered from this wouldnt the first kid have been dead years ago and why the hell would her family let her have 4 MORE kids if it was so bad to the point where she killed them. she has something else wrong in her head otherwise she would have "saved" her first kid years ago.

on another note
5 kids could not have fit and drowned in a tub together. okay fine the youngest one had absolutely no control, but the other 4 kids should have sensed something if their siblings were ummm dead? run away dammit! what did the mother do exactly, make them get in a single file line? i guess the kids werent so smart. i dont know the story so maybe she killed one by one without the others knowing? if that is what happend then i apologize, but if they saw what was happening and let it happend to their brothers and sisters, WHAT THE HELL?

[SimpleS14]

Option0 & JVD - Don't take one's post to heart and try to detect sarcasm...either way continue the bickering :)

[OptionZero]

She was ignorant for believing Satan was inside of her so you would kill her? I win!

Seriously though, this could go on for ever. I'm gonna stop posting in this thread. We could argue forever over miscommunications and misinterpretations. Oh, and I totally missed the boat on your military statement. Again, sorry for if I offended anyone. There are tons of different situations in which I would make exceptions to killing someone, but this just isn't one of them.

I guess I'M INSANE.

Later dude.

-ignorant Canadian

Ray Charles doesn't know what the Statue of Liberty looks like. Hellen Keller couldn't tell you if Tsuchiya was tall or short. You can't tell me what the capitol of Malawai is.

Are these people ignorant? Or perhaps we should consider why they can't do or don't know some things.

You're insane? Too bad, because under your rules, I can't excuse any of your ignorance for that reason. Good thing you're gonna stop posting here.

[Helghast]

Speaking of Helen Keller..do we all know why she can't drive?

Cause she's a woman!


..continue thread.

[Redeye Jedi]

she just had five super late term abortions, people get abortions all the time, she's innocent and not crazy, haha

[RedlineRacer]

The problem with society in this day, is that no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. And this definately shows it. I don't see how any jury could have said that she was mentally insane. Its ridiculous how corrupt our society has become.

[OptionZero]

While I agree that overall society has been bastardized to the point our legal system is flooded with useless and frivolous law suits, that reasoning does not mean we should automatically assume this woman is some how a big faker and that we should just whack her and be done with it.

And of course you don't see how a jury could have found her mentally insane- you weren't in the courtroom listening to the arguments, you don't have a psychology degree, and you have no medical background. I wasn't and I don't either, but then again...I haven't just blindly jumped in and said with some unfounded certainty that this woman should die.

Yes, it is ridiculous how corrupt our society has become, but the solution isn't to become a mob that's ruled by knee-jerk reactions. Perhaps if we all stopped to think before proclaiming ourselves certain of some things (such as DIE!), we'd prove more difficult to corrupt, and more adept at coexisting with those different from us.

[undesiredshoe]

Originally Posted by OptionZero
Bullshit.

Your family's in danger, the person putting your family in danger is in your sights, and you're holding a gun.

If you don't pull the trigger, you're the one that's insane.

Notice the two sentences before the one you bolded? I said murder for a reason. This is the one exception. I consider killing someone in self defense protecting yourself, not murder. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I agree with JVD, self defense is a different thing than intentionally killing someone. I mean if her kids were somehow putting her life in danger and in self defense "drowned" them, Id say it was self defense. But then id call her insane for drowning them.

But I agree with OptionZero that everyone is insane, some just not as insane as others.

[OptionZero]

Again, you missed the point. Her damaged mental state lead her to believe, reportedly, that her children *were* in danger. Notice that's different than thinking "hey, i'm sick of taking care of my kids so I'll kill them"- that would just be cold blooded murder and stupidity.

The only question is the legitimacy of the damage in her head, and that's something I doubt anyone one of us here knows enough about (through any medical background or first hand analysis of the woman).

[aznpoopy]

And of course you don't see how a jury could have found her mentally insane- you weren't in the courtroom listening to the arguments

option is right. i'm interning with a judge right now... i see jury trials 24/7.

many of the comments in this thread demonstrate exactly why trial by jury is necessary. mob rule is not justice.

on top of that, there is a huge difference between murder and a homicide committed by a loon. murder is premeditated and deliberate. you know exactly what you're doing and you want to do it. over the summer we've had two murder trials. murderers are very, very sane. that's why its scary.

[OptionZero]

What disturbs me most is that so many of the posts in this thread were by really, really new posters (sub 10 posts).

This is a car thread purportedly filled with car enthusiasts, but their priority is to post about...this? Especially without even bothering to fully read the article, I bet. That sorta stuff is just discouraging.

[Zero_SX]

court is so leniant on women. if she were a man who drowned the kids, prison for life or death penalty, no doubt.

[tbowzer]

I heard this earlier today, some horrible shit if you ask me. How could your drown all your infant children? She deserves to feel the pain that those kids felt..