ka-t or skip barber?

[itsmeviet]

i have a stock KA planning to go ka-t. would u rather do ka-t or http://www.skipbarber.com/driving_school/two_day_hp_school.aspx and crappy bolt ons?

[CaoBoY]

go to the school. you will learn way more, worth your money. learn to outperform the machine you already have, then upgrade it to your driving ability!

[S14DB]

Skip barber.

1)You can shave a second off with his class. Then you have that knowledge to any car you have.
2)To much power can make you a worse driver. You'll learn more in the school.

I think you'll be faster with boltons and school then KAT.

[itsmeviet]

how about ka-t and autox? u think i would be able to learn as much? or is skipbarber just that good and worth going to?

[Flybert]

How about save the money and do a shitload of track events. I think you'll learn way more by getting more seat time.

[S14DB]

how about ka-t and autox? u think i would be able to learn as much? or is skipbarber just that good and worth going to?
:ugh: :loco:
That puts you in a class with Supercharged M3's and shit. Defiantly not going to learn anything with that kind of competition. just going to plow thru the course.

Auto-x is about control not power. Bewst is not going to help you as much as a suspension work would.

Spend the money on school. You'll always have it with you.

[WhiteGLX]

skip barber is a proven school, everyone learns, but everyone also spends a rediculous amount of money. Lik e previously said, use that money to sign up for like 8 track events, the seat time alone and small classroom time will teach you moe and help your learning curve with all the on track time. I personally woudl take the 8-9 more events over the SKip Barber school, thats just me tho, i thrive on HPDE's.

[HyperTek]

skip barber all the way!! the learning experience can never be taken away.

[MikeisNissan]

+1 for school

[OptionZero]

being fast driver is way more fun than being a shitty one with a pumped up car

[itsmeviet]

so i guess lots of track time or school.:2f2f: thanks for the advice guys

[!Zar!]

Learn how to go fast before you go fast.

[IMPerfection]

skip barber is a proven school, everyone learns, but everyone also spends a rediculous amount of money. Lik e previously said, use that money to sign up for like 8 track events, the seat time alone and small classroom time will teach you moe and help your learning curve with all the on track time. I personally woudl take the 8-9 more events over the SKip Barber school, thats just me tho, i thrive on HPDE's.
HPDE's for life.

[KA24DESOneThree]

The most instruction I've had is BMWCCA ride-alongs at their autocrosses three years ago.

I have 520+ track miles. The only power mods my S13 has are a JWT ECU (probably doesn't help at this low a tune level and might actually hinder but whatever... it's in there and it's not coming out until a standalone has been put together to replace it) and a 3" cat and exhaust. I regularly keep up with modified Evos at the Streets of Willow and Horsethief Mile. Suspension and, to a lesser extent in my case, driver experience DOES make that much of a difference.

Could I gain from a driving school or even a track day with a professional driver in one-on-one instruction? You bet your ass.

[kawika219]

go to the school...i wish we had a track/racing school in hawaii...i'm gonna have to save up to fly to the mainland and take a class

[theicecreamdan]

I would go to school, and then keep going to HPDE's. And then I would pwn everybody

[g6civcx]

Each school has their own approach. A lot of the theory you can read and learn on your own.

Focus more on asking a lot of questions about things that confuse you, and getting feedback from your classroom experience. Focus on learning instead of being competitive from your track time. Talk with as many people as you can. You will learn a lot.

[0100]

Skip!

I have a bone stock 240sx and can kill 99% of drivers on any on/off ramps and the touge! I love it. Learn how to be a fast driver. A good driver in a bone stock S13 or AE86 is so much fun to watch.

[itsmeviet]

“I have a bone stock 240sx and can kill 99% of drivers on any on/off ramps and the touge! I love it. Learn how to be a fast driver”

"The only power mods my S13 has are a JWT ... and a 3" cat and exhaust. I regularly keep up with modified Evos at the Streets of Willow and Horsethief Mile" :naughty:

hahah awesome, that sounds more fun than ka-t

[NemeGuero]

Dont' be a fool! GO TO THE SCHOOL

[kenversusryu]

I honestly don't think it's worth 2700 bucks. But that's me.

[gamedog85]

i agree waste of money unless u got 2700 to throw out n have nothin to show for it

[itsmeviet]

i agree waste of money unless u got 2700 to throw out n have nothin to show for it

hmmmmm a good driver and nothing to show... or a jdm blinged out 240 and drive like shit..... but 2700 does seem steep

[Jonnie Fraz]

How much would it be worth to see the guys face as you own him in your 240 and he just dropped 40k on a brand new EVO?
+1 for school.

[0100]

i agree waste of money unless u got 2700 to throw out n have nothin to show for it

We have to do a track day at LRP. My bone stock S13 vs whatever you got. :bigok: Or a touge run, I'm in MA too. :hsdance: I will show you where the money went. :)

Seriously a skilled driver is worth so much hp on the track(and street :naughty:) it isn't even funny. Yeah if you are just into straight line power get the turbo, but anyone can mash the R pedal. I have been racing wheel to wheel for 3 years now so I'm not talking out my ass. Trust me it is worth the money. $2700 does sound high. I think I paid $1800 like 3 years ago for the skip school. Check out the clubs that are in your area. They all have schools and are just as good but much cheaper. I went with skip because they are open wheel cars which is what I race. May be better off with a club school as it would be a tin top.

[yudalicious]

if it's $2700 I would skip the Barber school (lame pun intended) and spend the money on cheaper/local schools + track time... good luck, it'll be frustrating at first when crappier drivers and better cars pass you on the straights, but in the end it'll be worth it.

[WhiteGLX]

The most instruction I've had is BMWCCA ride-alongs at their autocrosses three years ago.

I have 520+ track miles. The only power mods my S13 has are a JWT ECU (probably doesn't help at this low a tune level and might actually hinder but whatever... it's in there and it's not coming out until a standalone has been put together to replace it) and a 3" cat and exhaust. I regularly keep up with modified Evos at the Streets of Willow and Horsethief Mile. Suspension and, to a lesser extent in my case, driver experience DOES make that much of a difference.



a stock 240sx keeping up with modified EVO's? From all my track events ive done, i dont see any stock 240's moving that fast, seems like a pretty bold statement, sorry if im stepping over the line here. Ive been on track with high HP evos that could driver very well, which worked to my advantage but i also run an SR....a KA just has no where near any kind of pull to keep up anywhere on track with an evo.

[undercoverdjay]

My vote is go with a cheaper KA-T setup, learn how to tune it, and use the remainder of the money for track time. Talk to the more seasoned drivers there and get tips on braking, cornering, suspension setup, etc etc. Learn where you need the power ie, torque for corners, top end for straights and such.

My KA-T setup cost me peanuts after doing research to find out whats a proven setup and what works

SR T25
SR 370CC
88-94 Maxima MAF
Apexi BOV
Ebay FMIC/piping
X02 racing bottom mount manifold
Ebay SR 3 inch downpipe
Apexi SAFC
LC-1 wideband O2 sensor
Boost/Oil pressure/AFR gauges
Auto KADE ECU

With that I've taken a couple LT-1 powered F Body cars, and my buddies 96 M3

I think it cost me around $900-$1000 (including the price of the T25, since it came off of my SR)

Leaving you with $1,700 left (assuming the $2,700 budget) with that you can get plenty of track time. Make sure you invest in some Z32 brakes though, the stock brakes are just horrible. Learn on this setup, sell it off at the end of the season, and buy a better setup for next year

[HaLo]

Go to the school! It's a mod that will follow you, in any car you drive...

[Jonnie Fraz]

^Well put HaLo...I was talking to a Skip Barber Graduate, and continuning student this weekend and he is doing the mods to his car a little later after he gets a little better. This gentleman also showed me a video of him driving Buttonwillow and he was pushing cars with much more horsepower and suspension mods.

[S14DB]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006A9I2A/

[brokeAs240sx]

i have a stock KA planning to go ka-t. would u rather do ka-t or http://www.skipbarber.com/driving_school/two_day_hp_school.aspx and crappy bolt ons?

You're in Irvine... you just MISSED the autox school/practice this past weekend... $110. Don't let the price fool you, lots of scca veterans and champs in this region that love to help people. Maybe not as high performance or as much seat time as the Skip Barber school... but that all depends on how you look @ things. Even w/ just that event, there was SO MUCH information given to me that I'm still absorbing some of it a few days after the event.

There's also the EVO driving school for autox that happen every so often for $200-260. Worth every penny in my opinion, I went to that one last year before I attempted autox. The EVO school alone helped me catch up w/ ppl during "back roads" running, and put me in a much better position during autox vs the other novices when I started.

W/ the two days (been doing autox since late last year), I learned A LOT. I actually took my stock 240, instead of the fully suspensioned out one (coilovers, bars/rods/arms, brakes, tires, etc). Learned where I was having trouble w/ the modded car but couldn't pin point the issues - one of them was w/ turning too late & weight transfer/management, something that the coilovers and z-brakes were "hiding".

Anyway, I'm actually put in SM class (w/o turbo!) and compete w/ the crazy cars, always come in last... but who cares! you learn so much.

For AutoX in this region, it's actually recommended to run a ridiculous class by the veterans... why? because a lot of them compete in the lower classes that run first (stock, sts/stx/stu, etc), and are only allowed to instruct/ride-a-long to give pointers after they've done their runs. And classes like SM/SP usually run at the end of the day... all works out in the end.

Even after almost a year of autoxing, lots of hard/backroads driving, I'm still a newb, and can even improve my driving on stock suspension. Schools are great, power is great, they are all great... but it all breaks down into how you respond to certain things.

I know this is a long-winded response, and if you are still reading by now, I personally feel that there are many viable options you can do before putting $3k down on just one school... or on just a turbo. There's so much that I can pick up from less expensive schools that are still very effective, seat time, etc... I can go to the Skip Barber school later when I plateau and got all the basics down... just my opinion.

A Road Plan:

Evo School -> 3-4 autox events -> SCCA school/Evo School -> 3-4 autox events -> hpde event/school -> several more autox's & hpde's & drift days -> Skip Barber School... eventually

[0100]

A Road Plan:

Evo School -> 3-4 autox events -> SCCA school/Evo School -> 3-4 autox events -> hpde event/school -> several more autox's & hpde's & drift days -> Skip Barber School... eventually

Awesome plan and great post!:rawk:

[itsmeviet]

W/ the two days (been doing autox since late last year), I learned A LOT. I actually took my stock 240...



those are some great tips. anyways, im going to my first track event this weekend at willowsprings, hpde. im gona hold back on the skip barber for now and do wat you guys recommended,hpde's and auto x. cant wait. btw, im getting called a bitch for backing out of turbo!! lol

[Edgar]

Skip Barber hands down.

[l20bdime]

I went to skip barber as a graduation present. It was only the 1 day class. It was fun but I seriously didnt learn anything. we spent more time waiting for all the slow drivers so they wouldnt get left behind. Just do events on ur own.

[OptionZero]

You gain experience but not much knowledge doing it on your own.

it helps tremendously to have an instructor by yourside focusing on the track while you focus on the car.

NASA HPDE's are pretty well organized.

[AceInHole]

chiming in w/o reading anything:
1. autocross is probably the best way to learn to drive. "autocrossers make great road racers" is the saying. there's a flip side to it but i'll just let it be :P regardless, most autocross instructors know their shit (pats self on back :) ) and can get you started on a good path.

2. more performance driving seat time before a driving school will help a ton. you don't want to go through a school and not have any questions, and prior experience will definitely make you wonder about some things that people at an hpde can help you with. otherwise you might go through an entire school without learning some of the things you'll end up wanting to know most. that said, the driving schools are definitely worth the money, but you'll want to get as much as you can from it by going there with a good basis of what you might need to work on most.

regardless, if it comes down to not being able to afford a turbo and a driving school, you might want to hold back on the turbo and invest in other things first :P the turbo itself CAN (90% chance of WILL) cost more than you expect.

[tre]

KA-T -> Road/auto/drift/drag event -> (maybe school if you'r ea baller with money)

lol autocrossers make good road racers and you'll leave it at that :P

Hell if you want the BEST experience especially will get your VERY comfortable with traffic/other cars. Oval track.

[Fred Allen Burge]

Well, I'm a little late to the conversation but I like the question. I say KA-T all the way. You'll learn a ton by doing the project yourself and you'll have fun with it everyday you drive it. The school sounds fun but only while it's in session, after that you've got some good skills and some great memories but they all fade in time.

Fred

[NemeGuero]

No way.. learning how to drive ANY car is more important than having a car you don't know how to drive..

[AceInHole]

Well, I'm a little late to the conversation but I like the question. I say KA-T all the way. You'll learn a ton by doing the project yourself and you'll have fun with it everyday you drive it. The school sounds fun but only while it's in session, after that you've got some good skills and some great memories but they all fade in time.

Fred

A KA-T will blow up much sooner than you'll lose driving skill. Unless you have a mental disorder, in which case a KA-T will blow up much sooner than you'll lose driving skill.

...wait a minute....

[redsuns3838]

i think you should track the car a lot, and once uve hit your glass ceiling, take the skip barber course. but it looks like he travels around and it probly only comes once a year so maybe you dont wanna wait?
either way i see track/ class as a better choice than just pouring the $ into your engine.
u cant really go wrong with either choice.

[kY.gordon]

go to school. only if i had 2700 to blow on school.

[Rayne]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006A9I2A/


+1 and plenty of track time at local events.

[sw20>>s14]

its more fun to go fast in a slow car than to go slow in a fast car...

not to mention a lot safer...

cant stress enough how many high powered cars piss me off on the track and make it a lot more dangerous for me...i love it when power mongers subdue to point by'g a stock KA...hehehe...

[brainfood]

a stock 240sx keeping up with modified EVO's? From all my track events ive done, i dont see any stock 240's moving that fast, seems like a pretty bold statement, sorry if im stepping over the line here. Ive been on track with high HP evos that could driver very well, which worked to my advantage but i also run an SR....a KA just has no where near any kind of pull to keep up anywhere on track with an evo.


Its truth I have seen it.... well mostly truth. Think about the fact that he means mostly stock motor (not suspension) and that HTM and Streets are more even playing fields against higher powered cars. But yes track time > mods. Not sure I agree with the school I am sure you can go out to 25 or 26 local track days with that money shit if I had 25 track days under my belt I would bust a way madder drift. Just my opinion though.

[marshun]

nothing beats personal experience. have you tried just reading up and watching videos and stuff? thats what i did and i even got to shoot the shit with a teacher for racing classes (when we had a track anywa) and he said theres nothing really wrong with my driving (autox). i just gotta keep doin whatever i've been doing cause its workin. i've never taken a class.

i realize it may sound like im tootin my own horn. but serious focus on your driving is all up to you :). but if it takes school to do it, then do the school

[backroadtouge]

wellll ive taken a school, not liek that big of one like skips because i already new how to drive and control my car well, but hey it was a birthday present. It was a one day thing inwhich i got to do alot of ride along laps with a pro, then take a class and drive myself with the pro in the passenger seat instruction and all that goodnesss. BUT seriously, sittin in class i felt liek i learned a few things (i was like "lol i learned this in gran turismo")
it wasnt really until we got on the track that it all started to come together.
plus we raced modded c5 corvettes
and i was passing all the old guys that went! so i knew i started to get good!
All in all the school did help me a) get more seat time, and that case, in a MUCH faster car and b) i can find the race line much faster now at my driftdays.

so 2700 seems like alot and it is, but the teaching stays with your because heck ITS RACE SCHOOL ADN YOUR SPAZZING THE WHOLE TIME YOUR THERE!
Though i guess if you feel liek you know how to drive good, take a smaller, less expensive class. ANY class where you get a pro there talking about your driving will help anyone who takes it!