View Full Version : specific advice for spacers or adaptors...
sw20>>s14
07-19-2006, 09:14 PM
first of all, i am totally against spacers, but due to the price of the rims; it wouldnt be justified to bitch...therefore, im pretty clueless about the best routes to take...i searched and got the gist of it, but just seems too vague so i was wondering if any of you guys have any advice...
basically, the wheels clear everything except for my front 30mm z32 calipers due to the wheels being super low disk...the spoke hits the caliper and has about a 2-3mm gap to seat on the hat of the rotor...
so i figure, 5mm should do it...no biggie, ill just get a sandwich and run it with stock studs...but i start reading and people have nothing but bad things to say about sandwich spacers...
so i decide to get some adaptors...but is it really necessary for such a miniscule difference? i mean, all i need is 5mm...i suppose, i could get a 10mm...
so im just wondering what any of you with experience would recommend doing considering i dont have extra expenditures to spend on both just to see if itll work...my main concerns are safety (will be daily driven and occasional spirited; never track), price, and practicality...keep in mind that the spacer/adaptors are being used for clearance issues; not flushness...so please no: "just get 25mm and call it a day"...also, i have plenty sets of wheels that are "flush" and fit properly clearing everything i need...so please no: "i dont understand...just get wheels that fit right, geesh"...any help would be greatly appreciated... ;)
DJPimpFlex
07-19-2006, 09:58 PM
I have some 10mm in the front to clear my z brakes and I have extended wheel studs. Tracked the shit out of it with no problems at all.
slideways2004
07-19-2006, 10:01 PM
5mm is safe on stock studs. I would never go bigger than that though. i run 5 mm on my rear daily. drive the shit out of it and 100 mph on the highway
chmercer
07-19-2006, 10:16 PM
whoever has bad things to say about spacers dosent know how to use them. look through a revspeed, nearly every tsukuba time attack car runs spacers. get some extended studs like peak performance or arp, get however big of plate spacer you want, bolt together, done deal. as long as you torque your wheels properly then you will have no problems.
CKAMC
07-19-2006, 10:55 PM
hub centrific wheel spacers for when you go to shops or when your in a hurry... makes a difference according to some locals when they are lazy and take their cars to auto shops for work... H&R FTW!
yokotas13
07-19-2006, 11:00 PM
the fastest cars in japan run spacers, and extended lugs. Dont be a retard, if that shit can set records, it can be on your DD. tq your stuff right and yuo wont have a problem
check my thread for spacers for sale lol
slideways2004
07-19-2006, 11:24 PM
whoever has bad things to say about spacers dosent know how to use them. look through a revspeed, nearly every tsukuba time attack car runs spacers. get some extended studs like peak performance or arp, get however big of plate spacer you want, bolt together, done deal. as long as you torque your wheels properly then you will have no problems.
so what's your opinion on bolt on spacers? like 25 mm with built in studs
chmercer
07-19-2006, 11:59 PM
bolt ons are fine if you need a thicker spacer; if you plan to leave them on all the time they are good, but if you only need them for specific wheels it can be a bitch at the track since it effectivley doubles the amount of lug nuts you need to mess with. i like slip on spacers for ease of use personally. but bolt ons have less chance of vibration since they are always going to be lugcentric. and for the inexperienced they are easier to install than extended studs.
TurDz
07-20-2006, 02:39 AM
Hey.
You can't really get adapters for anything less than say what...20mm. The lugs you need to screw onto the stock studs are thicker than that.
If you're very worried and paranoid, spend the extra money on extended studs, hub&wheel centric spacers (such as H&R), and open ended lugs. If you go for extended lugs, it might just be better to get 10mm to take full advantage of the extra length.
Lordrandall
07-20-2006, 01:45 PM
www.crowautomotive.com makes custom spacers/adaptors. I had a set of 5mm hubcentrics from them and they were awesome.
They also make wheelcentric adaptors.
trsilvias13
07-20-2006, 01:51 PM
anyone know the arp parts # for the s14 front and rear?
I want the # where it uses the stock thread pitch. I see people giving me the camaro ones which uses a honda thread pitch.
sw20>>s14
07-20-2006, 02:56 PM
thanks for all the suggestions and for calling me a retard :kiss: i just borrowed a few 5mm sandwiches from a friend and ill see how much i need...if 5mm, then sandwiches...if 10mm, then sandwiches with extended studs (just for extra measure)...if it needs a tad more than 10mm to clear comfortably, then 15-20mm kics...gracias peeopoh!
and fyi, www.ezaccessory.com has all sorts of spacers, studs, bolt pattern changes, and adaptors that seem like theyre pretty good quality at good prices...
chmercer
07-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Hey.
You can't really get adapters for anything less than say what...20mm. The lugs you need to screw onto the stock studs are thicker than that.
you can get bolt on spacers in 15mm, but they require that your wheels have recesses machined in the back pad to go over the exposed stud.
anyone know the arp parts # for the s14 front and rear?
I want the # where it uses the stock thread pitch. I see people giving me the camaro ones which uses a honda thread pitch.
there is no part number for s14 front and rear. they are late model gm studs not camaro. camaros do not use honda thread pitch, camaros use camaro thread pitch.
if your car is 4 lug, the late model gm studs will fit in front and rear. if your car is 5 lug, they will only fit in the rear hubs. for the front you can use peak performance or nismo, you can use arp evo studs or 80s celica studs but they arent as cheap as the gm studs and they arent much longer than stock so defeats the purpose.
personally on my car i have stock nissan studs front gm rear, for my spacering needs. 1.25 pitch close ended nuts front 1.5 pitch open rear. no sweat
Nizzan4u2nv
07-20-2006, 05:39 PM
Since were on the topic. Anyone had a bolt on spacer and took the studs out, making it a sandwich spacer? Then using extended studs? Im thinkin about doing that because i cant clear a 15mm bolt on with my cst's, but i can with fn01, gram light, cr kai.
BTW, i run 5mm spacers all the time on both my cars with no problems whatsoever. Just make sure you torque your wheels properly and youll be good.
sw20>>s14
07-21-2006, 04:13 AM
so i found out that ill need 10mm to comfortably clear...5mm clears, but rubs the nissan letters by literally a hair and im too lazy to file or grind them down...so i must seek some advice one last time before making a choice...would you guys:
-get 10mm sandwich with extended studs and open ended lug nuts
-get 15mm adapters
or
-get custom 7-8mm spacers and keep the stock studs (IMO, its pushing it though...let me know otherwise)
obviously i have to go with one of the options, but im just wondering if you guys can fill me in on the quirks of extended usage (e.g. with adapters, you have 10 more (only need fronts) lug nuts to tighten and torque)...just curious of things i may have overlooked that might challenge practicality and price efficiency...thanks again for any tips...
edit nissan4u2nv, since i am considering getting some 15mm adapters, would it be too much trouble to take a picture or give a rough estimate of how much the stock studs stick past the plate? just curious as to whether i can clear them too...as for your situation, i would imagine it would be the same, but i could be wrong...thanks
yokotas13
07-21-2006, 07:06 AM
i can get you 8mm spacers all day and send them to you
or 10, or 5s, whatever yuo need
even bolt on spacers
let me know if i can help ya man
beauty of a samwich spacers is that you still retain the stock amount of lug nuts
in some cases you might need extended studs (10mm you will, i did but i have aftermarket hubs) You said you were trying to clear z32 wheels right? i think they are the same offset and setup as the skyline wheels i have and will clear with 8mm of spacer, and you do NOT need studs
chmercer
07-21-2006, 08:27 AM
what kind of wheels do you have. as i said earlier only certain types of wheels will work with bolt on 15mm spacers.
not knowing what kind of wheels you have, i would say to get some extended studs and some plate spacers. plate spacers are generally a good deal cheaper than bolt on spacers so it offsets the cost of buying new studs. also its super easy to change wheel studs soo yeah.
I personally would not recommend using any spacers with the stock studs... Especially those cookie cutter cast spacers... those are just asking for trouble down the road...
Always look for Hubcentric spacers...
H&R and Eibach make hubcentric spacers that are great quality and come with longer hub bolts...
BUT, the 5mm spacers are only hubcentric to your hub not to the wheel... they do not have a hubcentric ring sticking out to go into the wheel hub...
Eibach does have 10mm hubcentric to the wheel hub and to the wheel spacers available...
H&R and EIBACH Spacers (http://mynismo.com/categories/?id=2328)
chmercer
07-21-2006, 04:50 PM
h&r studs are made out of cheese and have a really short knurl. i wouldnt reccomend them to anyone for any reason.
lug centric is fine for spacers. (lots are lug centric) hub centric is kindof stupid, i mean if your lug nuts arent centered around your wheel hubs you got more problems than a spacer is going to fix. also they get stuck to your hubs and its annoying to have to beat them off with a hammer.
trsilvias13
07-21-2006, 05:05 PM
If you like I have 8mm spacers at home just sitting there. I used a pair once and the other pair is new. I'll sell it to you for what I got it for (cheap). PM me , IM in san francisco .
TurDz
07-21-2006, 06:25 PM
You want hub-centricity because during the motion of the wheel under load, there is a vertical compression force. Now, you wouldn't want all of that force to be directed to the studs, would you?
Of course not. You want the majority of that to rest on the lip of the actual hub. With a hub-centric spacer, you can achieve this.
Wheel-centric is the same idea. IMO you would not be taking full advantage of hub-centricity w/o wheel centricity too.
sultan
07-21-2006, 06:36 PM
h&r studs are made out of cheese and have a really short knurl. i wouldnt reccomend them to anyone for any reason.
true story, h&r studs are so nasty
http://projectnissan.com/bb/uploads/sultan/2005-08-05_224931_studd.jpg
stock - h&r (came with 20mm spacer) - arp
so they get stuck to your hubs and its annoying to have to beat them off with a hammer.
also true. maybe i should have cleaned the rust of the hub before putting the h&r's cause they're super hard to take off. hit with hammer, jam screwdriver between rotor and spacer and slowly work it off. i shoulda just bought cheapo nonhubcentric spacers off ebay.
TurDz
07-23-2006, 12:39 PM
also true. maybe i should have cleaned the rust of the hub before putting the h&r's cause they're super hard to take off. hit with hammer, jam screwdriver between rotor and spacer and slowly work it off. i shoulda just bought cheapo nonhubcentric spacers off ebay.
Just add a thin layer on anti-sieze on the face of the rotor or adapter to prevent surface rust and sticking.
I'm not recommending you do this, but I've run for 6 months on bolt on spacers, 35mm and 55mm. They are hubcentric to the car, and lug-centric to the wheel. Yes, lug centric exists, I know, I design wheels for a living. I haven't encountered any problems, and these are an extreme application of bolt-on spacers. So as long as the bolt on spacer is of good quality and precisely made, you wont have problems if you take care of it when you torque down the wheels, even if it isn't hub-centric.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Yurikaze/rearspacer.jpg
chmercer
07-24-2006, 10:25 AM
^^^word, my buddy runs 50mm bolt ons on all 4 wheels, no problemo. just check them every once in a while.
yeah I know I dont love the H&R bolts either...
but they have changed their knurl...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/PerformanceNISMO/Car%20Stuff/hubboltschool.jpg
I wish I had pictures of the cars and trucks that have come in here with 3 wheels and all their hub bolts shierd off that were runing lug centric spacers...
420sx
07-24-2006, 01:05 PM
adapter type spacers are perfectly fine. hell, ran the shit out of the s13 with tc 25mil adapter type spacers and its fine. just retorque them after a while.
sw20>>s14
07-24-2006, 02:25 PM
thanks for all the suggestions...they made my decision a lot easier...i have decided on running 6-7mm sandwich spacers with stock studs...i figure that since my clearance issue isnt about flushness and only needs a hair more, i dont really want to get spacers that are only about 4-3mms thicker, extended studs, and open ended lug nuts...
i inquired about some spacers from crow automotive as suggested by a member above and found out that itll be around $90-100 for 6mm hubcentric and wheelcentric spacers...does anyone know of any other machine shops that offer custom spacers? im not sure, but doesnt $100 for a pair of spacers seem steep? maybe im wrong, but if indeed they go for that price, it basically defeats the purpose of going the "sandwich" route...so any machine shops that you guys are familiar with or have had good experiences with are much appreciated...
ManoNegra
07-24-2006, 02:46 PM
FYI.. ordered a set of 20mm H&R spacers last week and they came with the wrong studs. Called Phase and turns out their whole shipment was wrong. What a PITA, now I gotta send those back and wait for the right ones.... *EXPLETIVE*!!
chmercer
07-24-2006, 06:21 PM
yeah 100 bucks for a pair of spacers is stupid. i got 3/4" machined aluminum plate spacers from the domestic speed shop where i live for 15 bucks a piece.
id say just run the mr gasket plate spacers, you can get them at autozone or somthing, or internet jegs/summit/etc. if you want a little classier than that id get baer spacers, http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=58302
1/4 inch is like 6.5ish mm so should be perfect. and its 30 bucks for a pair and theyre billet.
this isnt completly related since it refers to dirt track racing, but i thought id post it anyway if anyone wants to read.
9. Does wheel spacing off the hub affect the strength of the wheel and its life span?
AERO: Yes, depending on the spacer and how it is used. If proper steel spacers are used that encompass both the inner torque ring and the outer torque ring, there is less chance of damage. Spacers should be bolted to the hub surface. That way, there is no possible movement between the hub, spacer, and wheel.
Spacers with the proper diameter are another issue. A spacer with an od (outside diameter) that is too small will not encompass the outer torque ring of the wheel, and it will end up acting as a can opener. The same holds true for a spacer with an id (inside diameter) that is too large. So pay attention to see if your spacer covers the inner and outer torque rings of the wheel. Aluminum is not recommended for wheel spacers.
BART: The spacing itself affects the studs more than the wheels. However, care must be taken to ensure that the spacer is large enough in diameter to cover the entire back mounting surface of the wheel. A lot of times, racers will turn down the outside dimension of the spacer in an attempt to save weight, but often the spacer will not fit properly.
BASSETT: When the correct wheel spacer is used, it will not affect the life span of a wheel. Bassett recommends the spacer plate be steel, 7 inches in diameter, and a minimum of 1¼16-inch thick. Avoid aluminum spacers or those smaller than 7 inches in diameter. If the amount of spacing exceeds 1¼2-inch, it is safer (and lighter) to simply change the wheel to a different backspacing.
WELD: This depends on how the wheel is spaced off the hub. As long as the wheel and hub stay true to each other, fit flat against each other, and have enough lug nut engagement area, the strength or wheel life span are not questioned.
MOUNTAINGARAGE
07-24-2006, 08:10 PM
I have run 2.5" bolt on spacers with Jeeps without issues. Having steel wheels and 30lb. tires puts alot more stress on a spacer than a 30lb alum. wheel bolted onto a 2700lb car.
rock crawling and climbing up mountains with 300+ lbs of torque, with massive amounts of wheel hop never loosened my aluminum spacers.
1. I used red loctite on the original studs after perfectly cleaning them with a wire wheel.
2. Torqued the lugnuts to stock + 5ft/lbs.
3. antiseized the outer lugnuts that hold the wheel on.
4. rechecked after the first 30 miles.
check it:
yokotas13
07-25-2006, 05:30 AM
sandwich spacers are cheap, i can get you two sets of 8mms for aorund 40 bucks
TipStylez
07-25-2006, 06:11 AM
Im running 8mm all around on my stock studs, work fine. Just retorque down once in a while or before and after rough driving.
BTW what kind of ARP studs should i be looking at for my 240? I heard camero or somthing.
Thanks
-Q
chmercer
07-25-2006, 11:26 AM
late model gm studs
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ARP%2D100%2D7708&N=4294863804+400295+4294900402+4294780229+115&autoview=sku
2.5" long (longer than the longest nismo)
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ARP%2D100%2D7713&N=4294863804+400295+4294900402+4294780229+115&autoview=sku
3.5" long (mad long, chariot spikes long)
if your car is 4 lug, these will work in front and rear. if your car is 5 lug, they will only work in the rear.
TipStylez
07-25-2006, 06:14 PM
^thanks alot!
P.S. the site you gave me...is it $11 for the set of 5 or is it for one stud?
Thanks
-Q
chmercer
07-25-2006, 07:30 PM
11$ for a 5 pack
Nizzan4u2nv
07-25-2006, 11:23 PM
Does summit sell studs in 3.5in length for the front(5lug)? I think im just gonna take the studs outta my adapters and use them as slip ons.
TipStylez
07-26-2006, 12:00 AM
anyone happend to have 1 extra stud laying around? haha
chmercer
07-26-2006, 12:14 AM
Does summit sell studs in 3.5in length for the front(5lug)? I think im just gonna take the studs outta my adapters and use them as slip ons.
none of the arp knurls are close enough to put in 5 lug front hubs, you could drill your hub out and press the studs in but thats a decent sized project. for front iirc the best solution is peak performance studs.
sw20>>s14
07-26-2006, 02:11 AM
for the 14.3 fronts, peak and moroso are decently priced and get adequate amounts of praise...
Nizzan4u2nv
07-26-2006, 02:44 AM
I looked at the moroso site and the only one with front 5 lug size 14.3mm(.563) knurl is this:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2136/products/91390/1-2-20-x-3-Press-In-Wheel-Studs-563-Knurl.htm
Are these the ones from moroso youre talkin about? They dont list specs like summit does with arp so I wasnt sure. Im guessin theyre 3in overall length which is the same as then 2.5in arp? Anyway, peak or moroso arent long enough for the 1.3in spacers I have.
sw20>>s14
07-26-2006, 02:49 AM
i was talking about these:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR-46220&N=120%204294923107%204294922919
3.0 inches long; 0.563in knurl = 14.3002mm
Nizzan4u2nv
07-26-2006, 03:24 AM
Oh ok, yea same thing. I wasnt aware they had them at summit too, their specs really help. I think ill be able to clear with 3in studs. Too bad moroso doesnt have .509 knurl 3in for the rears. I guess I could do arp 3.5in rear .509 knurl and 3in front .563 knurl.
chmercer
07-26-2006, 08:27 AM
you sure you need longer than 2.5? ill be running 20mm plates with my 2.5 studs and gorilla open nuts
Nizzan4u2nv
07-26-2006, 11:18 AM
Well the bolt-ons I have now are 1.3in which is about 33mm. I wish I woulda done this before cause plates are so much damn cheaper then bolt ons. Theyre readily available at all the wheel and tire shops around here too.
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