getting more front grip with more negative camber?

[r-b-x]

i seem to be having a bit of with lack of front tire grip. it doesn't seem to hold that well, feels like it'll give out and doesn't really inspire me to rely on it. i talked to another guy and he said that adding another degree of negative camber helped with the feel. i never really considered doing my own alignment before since the stuff is quite dependent on how precise the settings are.

my current spec is 2.6 degrees up front, 1/16in toe out and whatever stock caster is. the application is autox on street tires.

good idea to do? would it help?

and i've read it's better to make camber adjustments using slot hub mounts or camber bolts than using camber plates....

[CaoBoY]

yes, it helps with turn-in, more camber during turn in= more tire touching the pavement. mark your camber plates, where they are at on you current settings, then adjust from there. you can always go back to your original settings. your camber plates should have little marks, equaling 1 degree iirc.

[sw20>>s14]

-2.6 is already a buttload of camber...if you still feel that front grip is not at its potential, you may want to start considering upgrading other suspension pcs. or investing on better tires...and do you mean 1/16th toe out total? or each side? mess with your caster...dont forget that caster gives you a tad more neg camber when turning/loaded...i may be talking out of my ass so correct me if im wrong, but if you plan to autox, shouldnt you run more positive camber (more positive, not a positive value) up front considering that autox courses are usually relatively flat and lower speeds? obviously, im not too familiar with autox or autox setups...i understand that the susp compresses and such, but -2.6 seems more of a road race setup with crowned or cambered turns......not to mention that braking tends to be negatively affected once you reach a certain threshold of neg camber...

[slideways2004]

i seem to be having a bit of with lack of front tire grip. it doesn't seem to hold that well, feels like it'll give out and doesn't really inspire me to rely on it. i talked to another guy and he said that adding another degree of negative camber helped with the feel. i never really considered doing my own alignment before since the stuff is quite dependent on how precise the settings are.

my current spec is 2.6 degrees up front, 1/16in toe out and whatever stock caster is. the application is autox on street tires.

good idea to do? would it help?

and i've read it's better to make camber adjustments using slot hub mounts or camber bolts than using camber plates....

the camber bolts are the worst ones. don't get eccentric bolts if your gonna drive hard. you have read wrong, camber plates is one of the best ways.

2.6 degrees sounds like a good number. But i think you're losing grip b/c i assume you are running stock t/c rods? whenever you turn there is so much play in those bushings that when you turn your camber could even be going positive! change those and try out a mild 7.5 degree caster setting. so even if you run more negative camber it will actually be positive camber in the runs.

[mobilesuit818]

dont ever trust those hash marks on the camber plates.

[TheSquidd]

dont ever trust those hash marks on the camber plates.

tweaked chassis' with 1 ~ 2 degree camber differences per side FTW

[Rennen]

Simple.

Chalk your tires before each run.... if you aren't scrubbing off any chalk, you are running either just enough camber.... or more likely, too much camber.

If you are scrubbing chalk off of the sidewalls, add more camber and/or higher tire pressures.

If you are having problems reading the chalk, as a veteran to help you diagnose your problem. Also, you can ask a veteran who is in a similar car to ride along or drive your car to diagnose setup issues.

[McRussellPants]

IMO The Toe out your running is making it feel like you have huge initial grip and then washing out because its more of a feeling than actual grip.

Camber is dependant on the tire, Guys who autocross hoosiers have had good results with 4+ but your not gonna want to do that on soft sidewall tire.

More Caster might be the solution, give you super camber gain, espesially in the tight corners of an autocross, but thats a guess.

If you can, go to a taller front tire, the extra load rating will give you more grip before it gives out.

Adjust camber at the camber plate. the lower bracket slots will adjust scrub radius too. It really won't matter but you might as well do it at the plates if you have them.

[zads]

I run -3.5 deg on the front for street/autox setup.
What is optimal is a function of your setup;
Spring rate and anti-roll/sway bars affect the amount of body roll,
Static Ride height affects the camber gain, etc, etc, just for starters.

Shooting from the hip, I'd say -3 degrees is a good general setting for the front. Best way to figure it out is to setup a skidpad (a flat open, empty parking lot will do) and make appropriate adjustments based upon your results there.

[r-b-x]

how do you adjust caster? from what i understand, it's pretty much fixed or adjustments are very limited even with aftermarket parts.

re: chalk method
i don't seem to be rolling onto the side walls and wear is mostly contained to the designated tread area. using this indication, i think i'm ok, so i'm not sure what else i could do. except secret practice doing skidpad experimentation. i have a somewhat hazy feeling that i could be pushing harder, but like i said, it doesn't feel like the car will give me more.

[tchenku]

it's time to upgrade tires! i'm in the same boat as you, r-b-x. i've maxed out the car's potenial with street tires in D Mod. class. i haven't really looked at the rules, but if i go with r compound tires, i think that'll put me in the Street Mod. class. Halo is also a autocrosser guy on this forum, as well as a good friend of mine, jmauld. either PM them with questions or they'll chime in later to this thread. but yeah, street tires will only get you so far. if r compounds are too expensive for you, then Azenis rt-612 will do just fine.

[jmauld]

Check your camber by using a temp gauge across the tires. Chances are someone at your local autocross will have one, and can give you a more accurate suggestion with your setup.

If you're new at autocrossing? You may simply be overloading the tires with inputs. It's extremely easy to do this on street tires and a stiff suspension. Look at the results and pick one of the people who has one of the top times. Ask them to ride with you, or even ask them to drive your car to see what they think.

I agree with the comments on not using the bolts to adjust camber. Camber Plates are the way to go here.

You can adjust caster by using a camber plate that also slides forwards/backwards instead of just side to side. You can also do it with an adjustable t/c rod, but IMO, you would be better served adjusting it at the top of the strut, not the bottom.

[95zilvia]

Lovin the helpfulness of the zilvia members in this thread.
Sorry I don't have much input to add.

[s14slide]

all of the above suggestions are great, but you also have to factor in what you have in the rear. There are still a lot of questions to ask. Like, what tires are you running? At what pressure? Sus mods f/r? What diff do you have? If you are looking for ultimate grip for what you have, nothing will beat skidpad testing. You could make adjustments here or there at the track all season long, but if you are not familiar with what you are doing, then it just might take all season. I'm pretty sure you could find on the net somehwere the formula to calculate G's on the skidpad. Lastly, I've found that tire pressures can have a tremendous factor in how the car drives and feels. Hope you find your setup.

[slideways2004]

all of the above suggestions are great, but you also have to factor in what you have in the rear. There are still a lot of questions to ask. Like, what tires are you running? At what pressure? Sus mods f/r? What diff do you have? If you are looking for ultimate grip for what you have, nothing will beat skidpad testing. You could make adjustments here or there at the track all season long, but if you are not familiar with what you are doing, then it just might take all season. I'm pretty sure you could find on the net somehwere the formula to calculate G's on the skidpad. Lastly, I've found that tire pressures can have a tremendous factor in how the car drives and feels. Hope you find your setup.

very true. different tires respond differrently to tire pressures.

on teh same car, same alignment, my kumho mx felt good at 45psi. on the other hand my brigstone potenza s02 felt good at 40 psi. at 45 psi the tire would "roll over" (not sure if that's what it's called)

[r-b-x]

i'm running the rt615 with 35 psi all around. i was under the impression that more pressure was needed for less sporty tires to prevent rolling onto the sidewall so i went with a more moderate amount of tire pressure. around 36psi seems a pretty popular setting, albeit on civics, if that makes a difference.

i don't think i've ever seen anybody using a tire temp gauge around here. probably very few.