Red or black top?

[classicsilvia1]

Hey all,

History of my 240sx: Sold my '85 MR2 to pay for my 240sx back in high school. Completed my degree but was unable to drive my car for 6 years. Now I am 6 months from purchasing the famous SR20DET. What are your opinions black vs. red top? I got a machanic to complete the conversion for me, but I don't know if I need to purchase materials/parts? I heard the top top requires less parts for the conversion, is this true? Does someone know of a great site to get these information? I appreciate your reponses.

Jack Wong

[radhaz]

Hello Jack,
Welcome to Zilvia. The best immediate advice I can give you at this time is to enjoy your stay on the forum and do some looking around as we have a lot of information and knowledge posted throughout the forums. Your best bet before asking a question on the forum is to use the search (http://www.zilvia.net/f/search.php) function to ensure someone hasn't already asked it before you.

If I were you I would read through the Sr20det Faq (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=62607)and see if that post doesn't help answer your question for you.

Respectfully,
RadHaz

[ZenkiOwns]

Best site ever for anything SR swap related. I'm not an sr fan, but I commend their effort.

Heavythrottle.com

gl

[420sx]

dont go sr. waste of money. i have a blacktop, its fun but hey if u feel like throwing money for shit u dont need go ahead. it all depends what u want to do with the car.

[alexchanman]

get a CA and be cool like very few out there................

[420sx]

fuck that. if u do want a SWAP get rb25 or ls1. sr is a waste and so is ca. (sorry).
best choice is to LEARN more about what you have and use that knowledge. KA is not trash and you can mod it with great success. like it was said before SEARCH is a good place to start. hell, howstuffworks.com is great also.

good day.

[Pank]

get a CA and be cool like very few out there................


he could remove the engine completely and still have the same level of low end torque as a CA would make. I still want a s12, though :(

['90RPS13]

First, Welcome to the boards! I would stay KA. I am building a KAE-T. If you must have a SR, I would go with a Blacktop. Its newer, been sitting less then most Redtops too. Plus it has a slight bit more HP. I too would eventually like to have a CA! But thats S13 number 2 or 3. *a

BTW: I own a '86 MR2. I plan to Turbo is once my S13 is done. ;-)

[az_240]

I also plan on keeping my ka for boost.

But if I were to choose between a blacktop and redtop Id get a blacktop.....

Hopefully one day ill have a rb25

[koukidough]

if your gonna leave the sr stock then blacktop would be the choice otherwise get a redtop and spend the extra on a cheap 3" catback (+19hp??). You'll completely blow away a blacktop with just that alone. Oh yeah make sure you get a front clip with the speedo cluster still intact. That way you know what kilo/miles is on that motor. Buying one thats already been pulled usually indicates high mileage. Good luck!

[aNskY]

fuck that. if u do want a SWAP get rb25 or ls1. sr is a waste and so is ca. (sorry).
best choice is to LEARN more about what you have and use that knowledge. KA is not trash and you can mod it with great success. like it was said before SEARCH is a good place to start. hell, howstuffworks.com is great also.

good day.


how is 250rwhp on stock turbo a waste of money? 400whp without touching internals in a 2600lb car = not a waste of money IMO!

[smithers584]

s13 blacktops do not make anymore horsepower than a redtop, they just came out of later model cars.

[P4rD0nM3]

Welcome to Zilvia. Pay attention to the rules and use your common sense. If you can wait a lil more or save a lil more. Go with an RB or go KA-T.

[peoplerfoolz]

blacktop is newer engine and has less miles

[chlatboy]

blacktops are good since they are newer however, depending on your funds, you may decide redtop. Do some research and good luck. I also new a guy named Jack Wong in high school. He didnt like me cuz i was better than him. Welcome to the forums!

[mr_240sx]

blacktops are good since they are newer however, depending on your funds, you may decide redtop. Do some research and good luck. I also new a guy named Jack Wong in high school. He didnt like me cuz i was better than him. Welcome to the forums!

you know jack wong as well??? :goyou:

damm its a small world!:coolugh:

[P4rD0nM3]

how is 250rwhp on stock turbo a waste of money? 400whp without touching internals in a 2600lb car = not a waste of money IMO!
250? R u talking about the SR?

[flytwa78]

I am assuming that both black top and red top are from an S13. I want to get an SR20DET from an S14 (since that is what I have) there are of course many options (just as the various responses have shown) it really up to you. Though many parts for nissan engines are interchangable, there are some parts that you may have trouble with. The SR has a lot of support, dispite being an engine that was never introduced to the US (the SR20DET that is).

[kuramaya]

S14 Blacktop. Don't listen to the disses on the SR. My motor is strong as hell and beat like a little b1tch everyday. As long as you maintain it and knwo how to tune it, you won't kill it. One buddy of mine is putting down 580 now on stock displacement. I will be over 300 by next week on stock internals except for cams and stoppers...

[420sx]

but u are in japan. u have that motor stock. u didnt have to pay for the fuckjing clip and mods to make it run. not counting my fucking time putting it in. dont get me wrong I LOVE SR but its not worth the per $ value.

[kensreliableb18b]

anyway, if you're doing a build, i prefer redtop cuz they're cheaper.

[Id RaThEr DrIfT]

^^^ red top if ur gonna build it... if ur keeping it stock black top

[neilsan]

250hp on the T25 is wheezing the hell out of it and will guarantee premature failure of the sleeve bearing.

for whatever reason in my personal experience, ive seen a lot of redtops that drink oil or have shitty compression or the turbo is bad or the head gasket is blown... in fact my boy just bought a redtop and Had to build it up because one of the pistons was already bad and it chunked apart and scored that cylinder on his 1st trip around the block. Too bad for him it was way past the 30 day warrantee by the time that happened. On the contrary, every single blacktop ive ever seen (incl. mine) has been a happy, quiet, 0 oil consumption motor right out of the box... or off the pallet i should say.

Take that for what it's worth. If i buy another SR it's going to be an S14 notchtop.

edit: oh and blacktops use "fatty" O2 sensors which are easier to come by.

[aNskY]

250? R u talking about the SR?


250rwhp on 15psi :aw:

[mjjstang]

you SUCK, and all you fires to the fuel SUCK TOO.but really, if you want a red engine cover, id get the red top, if you want a black engine cover then you want a blacktop oK?????

[TougeSR20Kid]

red top... black top is pointless unless you go with s14 or 15. ooooh lower miles my red top has 35K. red top has more air flow in the head and black has better cooling, get a Koyo or low temp thermo if you really want. honestly save your money for Rb25 if you're gonna have an illegal motor might as well go all out. or try KA-t lots of power and torque if you use the t25 or t28 and at least its legal. its a bitch to drive jdm motors daily with cops everywhere, trust me. dont go CA that motor sucks and the majority of them have shatty drive train issues

to get a reliable 350 to 400 hp on sr you need s15 t28, new injectors, metal head gasket (highly recommended), boost controller, full three inch piping (good idea), fuel computers (good idea) all together you can build the red top to acheive this with about 2k or you could spend 3.5k on a Ka-t thats gonna push like 350ps and you'll probably pop your motor soon after

it all depends on how much you wanna spend... whatever you do is if this is your first swap take it somewhere dont do it yourself, dont be that guy.

[SilentSamurai8]

250hp on the T25 is wheezing the hell out of it and will guarantee premature failure of the sleeve bearing.

for whatever reason in my personal experience, ive seen a lot of redtops that drink oil or have shitty compression or the turbo is bad or the head gasket is blown... in fact my boy just bought a redtop and Had to build it up because one of the pistons was already bad and it chunked apart and scored that cylinder on his 1st trip around the block. Too bad for him it was way past the 30 day warrantee by the time that happened. On the contrary, every single blacktop ive ever seen (incl. mine) has been a happy, quiet, 0 oil consumption motor right out of the box... or off the pallet i should say.

Take that for what it's worth. If i buy another SR it's going to be an S14 notchtop.

edit: oh and blacktops use "fatty" O2 sensors which are easier to come by.

I second that strongly. I have seen alot of Red top (S13) SR's that are just plane shitty. Yet a friend of mine has had a S14 Blacktop now for about 6 years with no problems. My Blacktop is so clean of a swap. I get told that any time I actually take it to a shop. No problems at all.

I really dont whant to go on and on but that is the truth. KA-T if your going to build it. You can make alot of HP and TORQUE especially with it, but it will not last real long. IF you build it though it will probably be the strongest with the most torque (if you like to drift). Trannys are cheap too.

But if you go SR then Blacktop all the way. EVEN IF YOUR GOING TO BUILD IT. If this debate was a few years older then I could see the reason everyone is giving for the red top...but you can take the controlls off the black top and it will make the same type of power. Red tops just dont come clean anymore...so many good ones have been used that we get shipped over shit lots of times. Anyone that has used these engines a long time knows the real history of them on this side of THE WATER THAT IS.

Just my thoughts from experiance...but I must say in closing....I might trade my SR for one of these monster KA-T setups I see now adays. JUST NEEDS TO BE BUILT. :naughty:

[SilentSamurai8]

Sorry for double post

you SUCK, and all you fires to the fuel SUCK TOO.but really, if you want a red engine cover, id get the red top, if you want a black engine cover then you want a blacktop oK?????


I am starting to learn that mjjsang may be a master of sarcasm...ether that or....I dont know you tell me.

I mean ARE you joking? Earlyer I think it was you who said someone was a JDM COOL guy because he had an SR.

Not trying to get on you or anything. Just REALLY wondering. :bow:

[yokotas13]

the black tiop has 20 more HP, different other stuff and stuff like that

Both have great potential, but waht do youw ant to pay more for?

[Psycho 240 Freak]

Don't listen to those haters of the SR. It's superior to the KA in everything except displacement. If you got the funds go with the black top. Remember to get the full front clip if possible. I got the full front clip of a red top with 57,000 km on the odometer. It ran strong even when everything was all stock.

[mr_240sx]

well ive had my redtop sr for 3 years now and its never been out of commision because of engine troubles!! it runs strong and i dynod it with stock t25 at 260hp.

[fromxtor]

n00b(Psycho 240 Freak) , man are you misinformed. Did someone say rocker arms?

[Psycho 240 Freak]

n00b(Psycho 240 Freak) , man are you misinformed.

Like I said another haters of SR's. Face it, KA's are garbage. Anyways, he's asking about SR's not asking about KA's.

[theronin]

psycho go away you troll, you are offering nothing to this thread.

back on topic, i would go blacktop if i were going sr. just dont come whining on the boards about how you got busted with it though.

[CKAMC]

S13 BLACKTOP if you are going to do stuff like wild cams or build it up. Has a larger oil pickup tube opening and some like the fatty 02 sensor more than the skinny.

S14 BLACKTOP if you arent going to use cams larger than 256 then its a great choice as well and you can adjust/tune the vtc sensor with some of the engine management systems out there.

KAT if you have time to build a motor. RB if you got plenty of $$$$

[mjjstang]

Sorry for double post




I am starting to learn that mjjsang may be a master of sarcasm...ether that or....I dont know you tell me.

I mean ARE you joking? Earlyer I think it was you who said someone was a JDM COOL guy because he had an SR.

Not trying to get on you or anything. Just REALLY wondering. :bow:

no well i guess I am sarcastic a lot but i just really hate stupid ass questions, this forum used to be good and when Iwas a noobie everyone used to get on me about stupid questions, and i learned really quick not to ask shit that can be searched, and now all I see are dumbass questions and people actually goin on about it like they are talking about grass growing. maybe i should lighten up or something ehhh. but my statement about the top cover was correct as this guy didn't even specify s14 s13 etc so the difference in s13 black top and redtop is simply basically the valve cover. but watever im too tired to keep typing.

btw Ka's are not garbage (well mine was) but hey it had 149000 miles.

[SilentSamurai8]

Nahh, dont lighten up...well mabe a little. But I enjoy the sarcasm. Keeps things interesting.

I do understand what you talking about though. And yes I do remember...some of you might remember my original screen name MrSlideTribe back when a small unkown team called team Viscous or was around. :naughty:

But anyway...good stuff.