how do you controll oversteer

[Lenny]

i'm getting my 240 tomorow or monday and was wondering since i had a fwd car what are the main differences on how the car drives


and how do you oversteer the car my camry never did

[misnomer]

I wouldn't worry about tackling oversteer till you get a bit more driving experience. Basically, oversteer is when the car turns more than you're turning the wheel. The rear wheels lose their grip and spin around the front wheels. This `can` be controlled to an extent by either further steering or countersteering.

[Lenny]

so can you tell a difference between driving a rwd car as opposed to a fwd car

[MikeFD3S]

RWD has a tighter turning radius than FWD.. much more responsive.  There are several types of oversteer.  Oversteer is a result of the rear tires losing traction, and causing the rear to slide out.  

throttle induced - (power over) you put more power to the rear than the tires can handle

lift off - you let go of the throttle which causes the weight to transfer from the rear to the front, causing a loss of traction.

brake - similar to above...breaking causes a weight transfer

basically, getting the car to oversteer is easy if you understand driving dynamics.  You're basically getting the rear tires to lose traction during a turn.  Usually happens during a turn, or after one.  You usually dont want to oversteer, looks cool, but you lose a lot of speed and waste your tires.  Fastest way around the track is to stay within the limits of traction...

but yeah.... dont try to induce it on public roads... learn how to drive before you start messing with oversteer.  Inducing it is one thing, and controlling it is a whole different ballgame.  Get some practice or take some driving classes if you're gonna be playing liek that or you're gonna crash

[BlackFox]

Could get slick in the rain so watch out.

To counter oversteer, countersteer and let off the gas, if you slam on the brake you will take even more traction off the back probably spin.

If you want to "drift" you don't really have to do anything special, just take the turn a little faster (you'll know how fast) and the back end will break loose. Just don't over do it or it'll cost ya

[BlackFox]

P.S.- There's a huge difference between RWD and FWD. You can really feel it when turning fast.

[MikeFD3S]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To counter oversteer, countersteer and let off the gas, if you slam on the brake you will take even more traction off the back probably spin.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

err.... dunno bout that. &nbsp;ever hear of snap oversteer? &nbsp;

Be careful when countersteering...its really easy to overcorrect. &nbsp;Overcorrecting can cause snap oversteer which is almost impossible to recover from.

If you're gonna countersteer, you still have to be on the gas. &nbsp;Let off the gas completely and you'll get a sudden jolt of traction...if the front tires are turned the other way... the sudden regain of traction will usually cause you to swing the other way, and there will be way too much momentum to recover. &nbsp;

For most mild oversteer, all you have to do is keep the wheel straight and *lightly* let off the throttle. &nbsp;If you're not smooth about it, you could put yourself in a worse situation

sorry to come off like a know it all...but i learned these the hard way

[BlackFox]

yeah, good point.

I ment in the rain, you keep on the gas and you'll spin in the rain

[Alias]

After having my 240sx, I will never go back to FWD again. I love RWD its so much fun once you learn how to control it..

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BlackFox @ June 15 2002,02:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Could get slick in the rain so watch out.

To counter oversteer, countersteer and let off the gas, if you slam on the brake you will take even more traction off the back probably spin.

If you want to "drift" you don't really have to do anything special, just take the turn a little faster (you'll know how fast) and the back end will break loose. Just don't over do it or it'll cost ya</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
this is absolutely wrong. the only reason lifting off the throttle works sometimes is because the tires are now using all of their grip for cornering force instead of cornering and acceleration. if you get yourself in any kind of decent spin, STAY ON THE THROTTLE, don't lift, the friction from the spin will slow the car by itself, lifting only complicates the problem by transfering weight to the front. at least this is how you do it if you want to turn fast laps. in reality there is no hard rule on how to control a spin, just gotta modulate the throttle and brakes and be very perceptive. i started to spin last weekend, stayed on the throttle, countersteer until the pause, get the wheel back straight and everything is hunky-dory except for the fact i lost a bit of time (note to "drifters": notice how i LOST time when the tail swung around).

if you come into a corner too hot you're more likely to push then rotate, if you want to "drift," use the brakes, or just mash the throttle way too early and too much. but whatever, i'm not a phat drifter, so what do i know?

[MikeFD3S]

tnord is right on the money-- perhaps I wasnt blunt enough, but you'll WRECK your car by completely lifting off the throttle during an oversteer. &nbsp;The key is small corrections in the throttle and steering. &nbsp;I guess the best way is to use your ass sensor...after some driving time, you can tell when your car is reaching the limits of traction or is beginning to slide.

If you're taking a turn real fast and it feels really smooth (no lateral g's) most likely you are sliding. &nbsp;It's kind of a feeling in your gut... akin to being in an elevator when it's about to stop

fastest way to drive is to stay within the limits of grip...when you exceed that you're gonna either be understeering or oversteering...each of which really slows you up and wastes your tires

I will admit that oversteering is fun...but i wouldnt try it unless im 100% confident in the road conditions/car/myself

be careful out there

[HaLo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MikeFD3S @ June 15 2002,03:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To counter oversteer, countersteer and let off the gas, if you slam on the brake you will take even more traction off the back probably spin.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

err.... dunno bout that. ever hear of snap oversteer?

Be careful when countersteering...its really easy to overcorrect. Overcorrecting can cause snap oversteer which is almost impossible to recover from.

If you're gonna countersteer, you still have to be on the gas. Let off the gas completely and you'll get a sudden jolt of traction...if the front tires are turned the other way... the sudden regain of traction will usually cause you to swing the other way, and there will be way too much momentum to recover.

For most mild oversteer, all you have to do is keep the wheel straight and *lightly* let off the throttle. If you're not smooth about it, you could put yourself in a worse situation

sorry to come off like a know it all...but i learned these the hard way</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
A friend of mine learned it the hard way too... he crashed his 1980 Z28 Camaro in a tree on the snap-oversteer

[DSC]

Ya I've done that before...
You get sliding one way, coutersteer too much and let off the gas (inital n00b reaction when something goes wrong) shifting weight to the front...front grips and spins you the opposite direction. &nbsp;You can't even get the wheel back around before you are totally backwards and out of control.
I about pissed my pants <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

Anyway, you only need to worry about oversteer in the rain. &nbsp;Honestly (and don't flame me for saying this) I think you might want to practice losing traction at 25mph or less in the rain and correcting it so when it happens (and it will) you don't over react and crash your car. &nbsp;I'm not saying go out and do big slides all over the place right when you get your car, I'm just saying a couple U turns or 90degree turns here and there, you might want to intentionally lose a little traction in a safe place so you know what it feels like...better than learning by accident in a bussy intersection right?

As far as on dry pavement...you don't really need to worry about oversteer if you've got less than 200rwhp and half a brain.

Welcome to the club <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[MikeFD3S]

heres how I learned... find a nice big parking lot... bring 5 cones... put one cone in the middle, and the rest equal distance from each other (north south east west)

start driving in circles around the middle, start getting on the gas and once you feel the ass end sliding out... try to keep control of the car...later, once you can control it during the slide, try to set your slide trajectory to aim towards one of the cones

or if you dont have any cones, look for distinct landmarks

[KEIVmx]

How does one control oversteer?
- Ease off the throttle and countersteer if necessary.

The key is to ease and not entirely let go of the pedal.
Doing so will induce understeer which isn't nice while driving on a road like Latigo.

If you don't countersteer, you'll oversteer into the curb.

If you slam on the gas, you'll induce even more oversteer and launch you even faster into the curb.

If you slam on the brakes, you'll induce understeer so powerful that you will lose complete control.

Every car has different characteristics so the best way to learn is to experiment on your own.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KEIVmx @ June 16 2002,04:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How does one control oversteer?
- Ease off the throttle and countersteer if necessary.

The key is to ease and not entirely let go of the pedal.
Doing so will induce understeer which isn't nice while driving on a road like Latigo.

If you don't countersteer, you'll oversteer into the curb.

If you slam on the gas, you'll induce even more oversteer and launch you even faster into the curb.

If you slam on the brakes, you'll induce understeer so powerful that you will lose complete control.

Every car has different characteristics so the best way to learn is to experiment on your own.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
this post is so wrong i'm not even going to point out each one of the mistakes. to whomever reads this thread, please completely disregard what this guy said.

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KEIVmx @ June 15 2002,06:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How does one control oversteer?
- Ease off the throttle and countersteer if necessary.

The key is to ease and not entirely let go of the pedal.
Doing so will induce understeer which isn't nice while driving on a road like Latigo.

If you don't countersteer, you'll oversteer into the curb.

If you slam on the gas, you'll induce even more oversteer and launch you even faster into the curb.

If you slam on the brakes, you'll induce understeer so powerful that you will lose complete control.

Every car has different characteristics so the best way to learn is to experiment on your own.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
"- Ease off the throttle and countersteer if necessary."
You may "breath" off the throttle a bit but for the most part you want to say on the gas and countersteer.

"The key is to ease and not entirely let go of the pedal."
Agreed
"Doing so will induce understeer which isn't nice while driving on a road like Latigo."
This is absolutely wrong. &nbsp;If you are already in a oversteer situation and you snap off the gas, weight will shift to the front causing further loss of traction to the rear and increased traction to the front. &nbsp;If you are not countersteering when this happens your current oversteer rotation will increase dramatically. &nbsp;If you are countersteering when this happens, the front will grip and snap the car around in the opposite direction.

"If you don't countersteer, you'll oversteer into the curb."
Or off the cliff or whatever <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> agreed...maybe. &nbsp;You may just spin out and actually cover less distance than if you didn't countersteer. &nbsp;or you could spin around backwards and go that direction off the cliff...it all depends on the situation and how much your car has already spun around on whether you need to countersteer, complete the spin, or turn the wheels to do a J turn type thing if you are already past the point of no return.

"If you slam on the gas, you'll induce even more oversteer and launch you even faster into the curb."
If your already oversteering (and that is what we are talking about) that's absolutely correct.

"If you slam on the brakes, you'll induce understeer so powerful that you will lose complete control."
Again, this is the same as snapping off the gas except even more extreme. &nbsp;You will oversteer more.

"Every car has different characteristics..."
True, every car has different characteristics but when you are in a oversteer situation, you do the same thing to correct in all cars...just at different degrees (IE: how much you need to countersteer, etc...)

"...the best way to learn is to experiment on your own."
Yup, I strongly suggest you go do some of that before spreading incorrect information.

[transient]

Agreed, lets just hope he isn't driving anywhere near us.

The way I think about controlling oversteer, is to just make sure that my front wheels are pointed in the direction that I want to go. After driving your car for a while, you'll begin to get a sense of where the wheels are headed in relation to the steering wheel. Other than that, just remember to drive as smoothly as you possibly can. Sudden weight shifts are one of the biggest causes of spins in the first place, so you definately don't want to do it when you're trying to control a spin. Just relax, and feel what the car is doing.

Also, i definately agree with DSC. Everyone should take their car to a wide open parking lot and intentionally lose traction at least a few times. Until you get a feel for your car, you won't totally know how to drive it.

[Tuck&Poke]

get fatter rear tires <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[drift freaq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> (note to "drifters": notice how i LOST time when the tail swung around).
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

duh no . come on Tnord, most people that are serious drifters know that its not the fastest way around a corner . Give me a break. Your disdain for drifting shows your ignorance of the whole asthetic reason behind the sport. Car Control, Drifting is all about car control. Car control in and of itself is an art. It takes skill to drift a car without crashing it. I have driven cars grip style for years I still do,but I love drifting, why? because there is a rush of adrenalin when your driving your car sideways on the edge of things . It is just plain fun as hell and it takes driving experience and skill to do it properly. When we were kids in Palo Alto, everytime it rained we jumped in our 510's, went out and got sideways. On purpose. It was not only &nbsp;fun, to see the look on other motorists face when you came off the light sideways and drove right past them, but &nbsp;it &nbsp;required control.
I will be the first to say that drifting is not something someone just starts doing without pratice.
The kids that get Hachi's or 240's and think they are just gonna start drifting have it all wrong.
Pratice, pratice , pratice
It does require skill which comes with pratice.
Though you show your immaturity as a track driver by putting down drifting . Drifting is a grip drivers friend too. When a grip driver loses it he better know how to drift because it could save him . even grip driving can wind up in slide or too sideways.
I do not put down anyone one style of driving. They have their place and the drift haters on this list need to start realizing that. It may bite them in the ass one of these days. hahahahha <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[tnord]

"most people that are serious drifters know that its not the fastest way around a corner ."

and how many serious drifters do we have here? if there are any, i bet they can be counted on one hand. don't even try and give me that bs.

"Your disdain for drifting shows your ignorance of the whole asthetic reason behind the sport. Car Control, Drifting is all about car control"

the sport? c'mon. i'm still undecided if i consider F1 a sport, much less drifting. car control? you can't even tell me that there is more car control in drifting than road racing. "drifters" have more control than the common racer in ONE AREA OF DRIVING. road racers incorporate car control in every single area, and when they do start to slide, it's unexpected, and quicker reactions are required. drifters are like sprinters, they're really really good at one thing, but that doesn't make them better or even comparable to decathlete's. and you said it yourself, it's an "aesthetic sport/hobby," it serves no real purpose, much in the way body kits may look nice, but they really don't improve anything but the bling-bling stature of your car.

"Drifting is a grip drivers friend too. When a grip driver loses it he better know how to drift because it could save him"

WRONG. drifting is what we try and avoid. when a slide does begin, everything possible is done to recover from that slide, not involve ourselves in the "tail-out-jackassery" (who coined that term anyway?) that drifters participate in. when was the last time you saw a race where they slid through the entire turn? it doesn't happen, at least not on purpose. "drifting" is the act of losing traction in the rear of the car, and how can you accelerate without traction to the rear? oh yeah.....drifting is just great.

the real "drifters" do have some pretty impressive skills, but ask yourself, who is more impressive, the greatest drifter in the world, or schuey? or even guys like peter cunningham?
i hope drifting becomes the biggest trend of all time, and i hope all you drifters come out to the track so i can go home with the trophy each and every single weekend.

[DSC]

"get fatter rear tires"
Try doing that mid-slide to correct oversteer <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

tnord, IMO if f1 is not a sport then no racing is..."motorsports" could no longer exist.

I dono if I'd call drifting a sport...and it DOES differ greatly from tarmac rally for those hoping to use that against me <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;My reasoning...Generally in motorsports you do whatever it takes to get from point A to point B the fastest. &nbsp;Drifting seem a little more like figureskating to me since I guess it is a sport but its more of an art/show thing than going for speed.

I think drifting is awsome personally, great display. &nbsp;But I don't like the idea of people drifting around Inital D style on public roads...but thats something I've bitched about enough this week.

[basemies]

don't try anything too hard before you get a handle on low speed oversteer. &nbsp;i smacked my ae86 into a curb and snapped off an axle earlier this week, and now i have no idea where my car is because it was towed. &nbsp;

moral of the story: don't drift into curbs.

[srJOEYdet]

I have a 4WD jeep cherokee right now, and I drift the hell out of that thing when its in 2wd and I am driving on dirt roads. And than I also have piched the ass out a few times in the rain. I think the key to learning how to oversteer properly is to eliminate the possibility if vehicle and bodily harm. That way if you do understeer, or get completely "bass ackwards", Your not doing it into a ditch or curb. So find some place free of obsticles. I live in oregon, and it rains a lot here, so I have some experiance oversteering non high-proformance cars in teh rain. And contrary to what someone said, I don't think you need race training to do it, or 200 hp. Now you might want some professional training to do it safely, lol. ( I just know some moron is going to goout and trash his mom's car because of this post) No flaming please, this is all an opinion.

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (srJOEYdet @ June 16 2002,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a 4WD jeep cherokee right now, and I drift the hell out of that thing when its in 2wd and I am driving on dirt roads. And than I also have piched the ass out a few times in the rain. I think the key to learning how to oversteer properly is to eliminate the possibility if vehicle and bodily harm. That way if you do understeer, or get completely "bass ackwards", Your not doing it into a ditch or curb. So find some place free of obsticles. I live in oregon, and it rains a lot here, so I have some experiance oversteering non high-proformance cars in teh rain. And contrary to what someone said, I don't think you need race training to do it, or 200 hp. Now you might want some professional training to do it safely, lol. ( I just know some moron is going to goout and trash his mom's car because of this post) No flaming please, this is all an opinion.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
"That way if you do understeer, or get completely "bass ackwards", Your not doing it into a ditch or curb."
I assume you meant Oversteer? &nbsp;Its hard to practice understeer correction...not much you can do but let off the gas I guess...understeer is scary as shit!

"And contrary to what someone said, I don't think you need race training to do it, or 200 hp."
I read the above posts and I didn't hear anybody say anything about that <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
Maybe you misread this
"As far as on dry pavement...you don't really need to worry about oversteer if you've got less than 200rwhp and half a brain"
meaning if your driving on DRY pavement and have less than 200rwhp and atleast 1/2 of a brain you don't have to WORRY about oversteer...it's not something easily done on accident like it is in the rain.

Man I wish I had something like that to goof off with on dirt roads...that'd be fun as hell!

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (drift freaq @ June 15 2002,2:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">duh no . come on Tnord, most people that are serious drifters know that its not the fastest way around a corner . Give me a break. Your disdain for drifting shows your ignorance of the whole asthetic reason behind the sport. Car Control, Drifting is all about car control.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
WHAT THE F***CK!?!?!? &nbsp;

How many times do I have to say it:
In some sense: DRIFTING IS THE FASTEST THEORETICAL WAY AROUND A CORNER.
There, I stated it in big bold letters for everyone to ignore.

Of course....
THE BEST DRIFTERS ARE COUNTRY BOYS IN OUTLAW SPRINTERS/ MIDGETS THAT DO OVAL TRACK EVENTS.
F**CK that car control sh**t. &nbsp;Try on some real drifting in racing.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 15 2002,3:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"tail-out-jackassery" (who coined that term anyway?)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Sounds like an FA thing to me.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the real "drifters" do have some pretty impressive skills, but ask yourself, who is more impressive, the greatest drifter in the world, or schuey? or even guys like peter cunningham?
i hope drifting becomes the biggest trend of all time, and i hope all you drifters come out to the track so i can go home with the trophy each and every single weekend.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Just tell them that the "drift king" doesn't drift during JGTC (i think that's the anacronym) events and such. &nbsp;Anyways, Keiichi Tsuchiya is a pretty impressive racer. &nbsp;I wouldn't put him on the backburner or anything..... he'd definitely kick YOUR ass in a race given a hachi-roku and you in... well... you don't wanna know... and i don't wanna embarrass you TOO much <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[HippoSleek]

1. &nbsp;I think we've settled the oversteer thing.
2. &nbsp;Methinks Ace is trying to confuse the poor nubes again by not differentiating between drifting (four wheels perfectly over the balance of the friction circle) and drifting (tail-out-jackassery).
3. &nbsp;The best way to correct understeer is to breathe off the throttle and steer into the skid - just like oversteer. &nbsp;Steering into it allows the wheels to regain traction so you can try again.
4. &nbsp;Tail-out-jackassery is not a FA term (that place is filled w/ drifters). &nbsp;The term came from H-T, and I happen to know the creator quite well &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[240 2NR]

My thoughts on converting to RWD.

Around town, driving like my parents, you'd never realize a difference except for the lack of torque steer.

At an eunthusiatic pace subtle differences arise, the most noticable being that the car rotates much better on the gas, not to the point that you are swinging the tail around, but that the rear end wants to have some load on it to be stable. &nbsp;You can actually decrease understeer by adding some throttle.

Honestly, the best way you will learn about car control is by finding your local SCCA chapter and running some events with them. &nbsp;I learned more about my car in one day at a high speed autocross school, than i did in the 8 months I owned the car prior. &nbsp;The biggest differences are what to do in high speed situations. &nbsp;The gut instincts you learned with FWD, don't always work as nicely with rwd, the most noticable being understeer. &nbsp;Going into a decreasing radius turn, a fwd car will tighten it's turn by breathing of the throttle, a natural reaction. &nbsp;In rwd, you have to rewire your brain to commit to the turn and get on the throttle and the car will rotate nicely. &nbsp;Very intimidating to brake from 90mph to go into a tight looking 40mph turn, and actually get off the brakes and on the gas before you turn in.

[MikeFD3S]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Very intimidating to brake from 90mph to go into a tight looking 40mph turn, and actually get off the brakes and on the gas before you turn in. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

And also very fun <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

I love the feeling of exiting a turn at speed and accelerating out.

[srJOEYdet]

My bad guys... I did mean understeer in the sentince DSC corrected. And it does take a lot of power to ACCIDENTLY do it on dry roads, must have read a lil quick there. But I do love whippin' shities in my jeep in the mud and dirt. And when you get somwhere you hadn't planned on deing, just hick in the 4WD, tronp on out. Too bad cars aren't so forgiving.
At one time, I wanted a streetbike. And I was sdvised to learn how to dirtbike well before buying one, for learning in the dirt is usually safer, and will build up the basics of near-accident recovery and the like on the street. I already had a dirtbike, soall I had to do now was ask my mom (granted I was only 15) she said hell no. The point is that I think it is much the same in a car. I oversteer every time I go 4-wheeling, or up to "lost lake" near my house, and I understeered many times on the dirt before I did it in the street. (public roads, I know, tisk-tisk) Well that is an even more OT reply for ya...

Joey