60 minutes

[Kaji]

Summary of the below statement: "Why the hell are we in Iraq? There was no good and just reason for us to have gone in and it was stupid of anyone to have blindly followed Bush on this invasion campaign. Now people are dying for a lie or no real reason what so ever. I hope those of you who voted for Bush in either election make a better decision the next time around."

I was watching 60 minutes yesterday and they had a segment on injured/disabled soldiers that have come back from Iraq. I began to think again about why we are even over there. The original reason that was given to us was that Sadam had weapons of mass destruction. This of course was proven to not be true and would've been proven true without the need for military action had Bush just let the UN finish their investigation, instead of ignoring everyone and running in there yelling "LEEEEEROOOOOYYYYYY!"

Then some how Bush makes people believe there is a connection between Iraq and those responsible for 9/11, which is quite ridiculous noticing how we knew that those people were/are in Afganistan. How he got re-elected is just a big reminder of how ignorant most of the country is. I marched in the rallies against going into Iraq along with thousands of other people. It's been rather obvious the entire time that our going in to Iraq was for totally selfish reasons, oil and a strategically central location in the Middle East for a military base. And now as people's sons, daughters, and loved ones are coming back in pine boxes they finally are starting to question what Bush is doing.

I know many of you are in the military and you feel a sense of responsibility to serve/protect this country and its President but look around and open your eyes to what's really happening. You are a human with free will and your own mind, was it really justified to go in and invade a sovereign nation like we did? Now we are stuck there because we cannot just pick up and leave at this point. I'm not too worried about us invading another country right now since all of the countries we would say have terrorists or psycho dictators like Sadam can actually defend themselves with their own weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons.

It's gonna be a long 2 years.

[ramblux]

You're just now thinking about this?


And I do believe this is going to get locked pretty quickly.

[Irukandji]

Don't you know we're not allowed to discuss politics?

It threatens the very power of our mods.

[Kaji]

You're just now thinking about this?


And I do believe this is going to get locked pretty quickly.

Think again about this. Obviously it hasn't just occured to me if I went to rallies against us going into Iraq back in 2002.

Don't you know we're not allowed to discuss politics?

It threatens the very power of our mods.

God forbid we talk about real world issues that matter instead of how much someone hard parks.

[exitspeed]

Don't you know we're not allowed to discuss politics?

It threatens the very power of our mods.

I think it's less that then the fact that people get out of line and say stupid shit. Next thing you know everyone that wants to talk politics is pinked. It's seems like more hassle then it is worth.

I'm not taking sides or defensing (yes I said that on purpose) anyone. Just stating my observations.

[Dr.PepperIsGood]

Next thing you know everyone that wants to talk politics is pinked. It's seems like more hassle then it is worth.

I'm not taking sides or defensing (yes I said that on purpose) anyone. Just stating my observations.
/\/\ :werd:.

[mrmephistopheles]

I'm not locking this... but I AM having trouble not snoring when I read it...

[midnight zenki]

Good choice in not locking the thread I too beloeve that this still warrants constructive conversation. During this time we mourn the sacrifice of our soldiers the thread starter is simply asking us to rexamine our complacency and apathy in general to the direction that the current administration has chosen.

[santacruisin]

It sucks that my generation had to have a Vietnam like my parent's generation. I guess every notch on the bloodline HAS to have some kind of war b/c of poor decisions of those that came before us.

WWI led to WWII with the way Germany was left in the shitter and their way out was a massive military industrio complex. End of WWII led to Cold War with Korea and Vietnam as the most well known theaters. Iran/Iraq, Afghanistan/Soviet Union were late conflicts in the Cold War that involved the U.S. as proxy wars. Gulf War was a direct result of the previous proxy wars as we had given Saddam the weapons he used to invade Kuwait. 9/11 was a direct result of the rise of Islamic Fundamentalist States and their animosity to the world superpowers (soviet union / U.S.) that had previously played them against each other for their own ends. Then there is the U.S. support of Israel which created a hornets nest of fatwahs and jihadists (Israel another result of WWII). 9/11 gave Bush almost godlike power (90% approval remember) to do whatever the fuck he wanted. Congress caved in and now here we are.

Cause and effect. The dominos continue to fall. When we gonna stop this bullshit and come up with a new plan? Picking fights around the world doesn't seem like good policy to prevent another Vietnam for my kids. Of course by then it will be called another Iraq.

[ramblux]

Hey, just be clear -- I'm not against these topics at all. I'm on your side, but these topics always seem to get locked. Kevin seems to be letting this one slide though, so I'll come back after I'm done working to give my thoughts. :x: