US leadership styles (toss around ideas)

[Tenchuu]

the intro, after reasing the what do you think of this ad thing and the decline of european productivity and haveing been to other nations and finding myself more free there than in the US, was going to ad this as a post, but it was so off topic that i thought that it needed a thread of it's own... just fod for thought feel free to comment or debate knowing that this is NOT a personal attack on anyone or anyhting just a random commenting so a you suck comment is not an argument, a well thought out responce is.




I think it is about time for the US to switch to a more tuff line of politics, i am tired of the "pussionification of america" yes we all have rights and laws to keep us safe, and yes everyone knows that these laws that were to protect have been scewed into smething grotesque that is not an accurate reflection of the guidelines they were supposed to be for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The US is now a sue everyone and cower in fear of getting sued nation. no one with balls will ever we a leader in this place because if you have a personal opinion you ARE going to piss off some other people that have opinions different from you. something along the lines of the millitairy democracy (in starship troopers, yes cheasy and overused, but of the options available it fuses the essence of democracy with the backbone of a more un-conventional government) would work better IMO because every year it grows worse in that all politicians get more and more lacking in ideas and opions to be elected the make no one happy, they assume that if they just don't piss off everyone, they have made everyone happy. I disagree, meidocracy is no subistute for leadership. ALtho this does leave out the possiblity of power or corrupt leaders tkaeing position, but there are checks and balences for everything and i belive thatit would be no greater threat than there is now.

As mutch as people rag on Bush, I thinki it is better to have someone that will do what they belive in than someone that will do nothing. imagine Al gore, then Kerry got elected, everyone is now driving Hybrids by law, the ecomony has slowed to 0 because production is bad for the enviorment, anyone who makes insulting comments not part of the media is sued for slander and infringing on someone elses rights. Then after the 911 attacks, Kerry issues an apology for the towers being in the way of the terrorists and meets all thier demands with the deepist condolences for the loss of thier suicide bombers. I want no part in politically correct apethetic crap that seems to be the new trend.

To me it seems that the differance between a rollover bastard like Kerry or Gore (but everyone rights are being preserved) or a person that is not affraid to make a decision (weather it be a right decision or not is not the point, a wrong decision is better than none at all) like Bush(not the best example, but I respect him for haveing an opinion) is the abliity to make a decision ans stick to it.

even with that being said, I would still argue that in order to regain the momentum that the US has lost we need a stong bold leader the sorts that can pull the US out of the stagnation that it is heading twards and that is profoundly better than what we have now.

/rant for the day

[wootwoot]

You cant give examples that have not happend handing assumptions for possible leadership.
What do you want to happen beside people stop suing over petty shit? I mean I dont even have a clear thought of what you are whining about beside that you think America is being kind of a pansy.

You suck!

[Tenchuu]

true these are assumeing worst case possibilities, never said i wasn't but i guess it does take a bit to understand that it is just an idea that i tossed out.

I will call it the pussification of america theory, basically that the way things are going is stright down tha drain with political correctness and over use or rights. basically stateing that someone''s "rights" as defined now a days as whatever i think i am entitled to always will interfere and stomp on someone elses "rights" so that everyone needs to stop bitching and act like they got a pair. sick and tired of whiney people complaining complaining about there "rights" being denyied because the don't like someone else is useing their "rights". tired of the US always haveing to be the "good guy" why not take off the golves and play dirty like every other civilization?

and like i said this is just a random thought not mutch to it.

[MELLO*SOS]

"We", as in you and I, the independant free-thinking citizens, have lost control of our government... The Fortune 500 corporations (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/full_list/), political parties, special interest groups and lobbyists run the show now. Vicariously, through the voters, with the help of polarized, biased media. Ain't that some shit? You're being lied to by both "sides", for the same reason... America's game is based on fear, deception and exploitation.

Tenchuu you open some important topics in your post... but your paragraph about "what would have happened" if Kerry were elected is very... uhh.. totally bizarre. It really shows your naive, one-sided train of thought. Let me guess.... Are your parents and/or close friends right wing conservative republicans by any chance? Have you taken time to really think about the problems with our "bi-partisan" system -- the problems with the democrats and the problems with the republicans? If so, you should realize by now that both major parties are a joke, one is not any "better" than the other, they both stand only to advance themselves, to get elected next year, and to extract the maximum amount of control over the country.

Our priorities are out of whack here in this great country... And when you take a closer look at who is pushing for that new legislation, or persuading you to vote for this great guy, or to purchase this new improved product... It makes sense. It's all marketing: 99.9% bullshit. It has nothing to do with making America a better place to live, keeping us safe or solving the problems of the world. It has everything to do with money, power and greed. They trick you out of your freedom and hard earned money, and you have the audacity to stand by and allow it to happen, election after election. I guess it's not considered "standing by" when you actively help them by letting your ignorance shine at the voting booth. That shit affects everyone, and in the end you're spending MY hard earned money and revoking MY rights & freedoms.... and I'm fucking pissed.

What ever happened to personal responibility and thinking for yourself?

/votes...
// doesn't vote for "either" party.... you do the math
/// my rant for the day... :hahano: :stupid:

btw Tenchuu, No offense dude... Anytime you want to come by drink a beer and shoot the shit about the problems with our country and the mess we're in, I'm down... :)

[Tenchuu]

that is true, most of the votes i have auctually done are a lesser of 2 evils sort of thing. jus thinking about what it would be like to have a good choice for once.... and you also make a great point, it is all about the millions tossed in by special intrest groups that pay for advertising, and the fattening of the wallett that drives the campains... altho deep down can you really blame someon that wants to make a buck. i think it is the ectent at whitch someon will do that that makes the differance. like Phase2 vs darkstar developments. both makeing money, one just does it the ethical way.


I auctually have no political ties, I auctually never have known what my family voted, or friends, truth is i always just go whti what i am feeling at the time. altho alot can be judged off someon via body language, tones inflections presentation and ideas... whitchi am fairly good at. not 100% but i would say 80 or so. and i was kinda jus stirring things up with that comparison paragraph, but the fact is that i absolutely hate people that are puppets of soemone else. if you don't have the ability to stand up for what you think, not at the cost of screwing someon else over, but in gereral haveing your ideals then you cannot have any respect from me. if someon completely disagrees with me and thinks somehting i say is wrong and tells me so i have 10000X more respect for that person than a yes man. great tides don't come from one person, they are the rrefinement of many ideas and thoughs that are honed to perfection over time and different views. if everyone is afraid of eachother there will be no refinement of ideas, no working togather and then things just go downhill.


you make some great points there yourself mello88

[midnight zenki]

This "pussification" is the result of a complacent society in which we are to apethetic to the situations we find ourselves in. Our lemming like ways are to continue on the path of least resistance until we are so far gone we get pissed off and a major cultural shift takes place. This hasn't happened for about forty years since the hippie days (last true cultural upheveal and also ironicly the time of Vietnam). Political parties have nothing to do with the current situation it is the capatlistic forces as Mellow mentioned that drive this country and thus control all governmental constituancies and until we the people clean house and elect a politician that wasn't bred to be a politician will this change. Our very political architecture allows for these thing to happen, our form of democracy allows those with an agenda to rule just like any other form of goverment, the corruptability of those who lead is almost a given.

[wootwoot]

Literally when you vote though, it is the government saying, "here, see? We told you that you guys were involved." But the government really does its own thing...If not, we would have had Gore for a president which I'm not saying would be better or worse, but he did win the popular vote.

I do think America is definitely to bitchy. I dont like what America has become in its entirety. Democracy's as large as our own become incredibly hard to manage with so many different views and local economys to balance. Other areas have reformed greatly to meet the demands of the people becoming mostly socialist while America remains a go out and grab it culture. I'm just going to stop now because I will get so incredibly off point and start rambling more so then now.

[Tenchuu]

but i suppose even thogh the mases are educated and know this (it was tought in my high school) that there is no real way to make changes without uprooting the whole system? i mean if it did change alot of people would stand to loose alot of power and money. and when that happens it usually leads to desperation moves whitch are always a mess.

[midnight zenki]

Exactly Tenchu, the bottom line is if a change is going to happen it is going to be of mass proportion, think along the lines of a military coup(sic) from within as the necessary means to effect a true change. The momentum to effect this change would have to be staggering.

[wootwoot]

It'll get messy when stuff does happen. Civil wars are bad

[axiomatik]

The biggest problem with America is our culture of greed. Most people are only interested in themselves, and if some people get screwed while you're getting yours, oh well. Greed is why many people want to be lawyers. Lawyers make lots of money, people want to make lots of money, so they become lawyers. Then, when they enter the workforce, they have to get business. But there are so many lawyers in the population, that they have to create work for themselves. So, we get ads that say "Have you ever worked in such and such industry...If so, call Douche & Douche" Or "Have you ever been exposed to this or that....". After seeing so many frivolous lawsuits, people start to accept them and trying to find ways to get their own big payout, maybe not consciously, but certainly subconsciously. Lawyers organize class-action lawsuits for minor things, and get say a $10 million dollar settlement. However, they signed up 500,000 people in their lawsuit, so that the plaintiffs get a whopping $1.50 each while the lawyers walk off with millions.

Now, I'm not saying that all class-action lawsuits are frivolous or without merit, but there is entirely too much abuse in the system, and entirely too many lawyers in America. There are more lawyers in Washington DC than all of Japan. We need more scientists and engineers in this country, and fewer lawyers. Science and engineering are the real drivers of the economy.

[Andrew Bohan]

the root of the problem is totalitarian agriculture. it leads to locking up surplus food and giving other people the ability to specialize in non-food-producing activities that produce goods and services to trade for food or trade for money to trade for food. this gives unbalanced power to the people who control the food surplus, who then become the government. this system was already in place when the US was created.
http://www.andrewbohan.com/zilvia/gif.gif

the solution is to divide the world into three superpowers: oceana, eurasia, and eastasia. they will be constantly at war and constantly changing allegiances. everyone will be monitored, and anyone who speaks out will be killed and history will be changed so they never existed. in addition, history will constatly be rewritten to suit the current political atmosphere. whatever the current alliance is, it was always that way and it's always right. it'll be great.
http://www.andrewbohan.com/zilvia/gif.gif

[OptionZero]

The paradox of America:

A. Everyone is equal.

B. Freedom to build a good life for yourself and be the best you can be.

Um...if someone succeeds and improves, then by definition he is no longer equal. Or, if everyone were equal, then no one ever improves himself.


People cannot be both equal and special (doesn't everyone want to be special?)


The other problem:
Parties. They've ruined the nation.

People evaluate political action based on whether its "democratic" or "republican". A democratic move is not inherently bad, nor is a republican one, or wutever. A decision is good or bad based on whether or not it makes sense.

Party classification allows people to skip out on logical reasoning and instead default to a simple blue/red system.

Lastly, people don't understand how government works. I hear everyday (i work in a state building), how Arnold, for example, ruined something. Well, Arnold can't make laws without the approval of the legislature- nor can he create the budget on his own.
Similarly, no one party has such an advantage that it can single-handedly cause every single problem someone experiences. People look for scapegoats- not solutions, and I think that's sad.

So:
People need to start thinking with their heads, not their guts.

[Tenchuu]

well it is interesting to hear more opinions. i am not a political sort of guy, but thought i'dea to see what would bounce back at me. but right now it is time for breakfast so i cannot think about sutch things before i eat.

[SimpleSexy180]

America is being kind of a pansy.



i agree!?!?! :wiggle: