What's with all the disrespect??

[Griffon2k]

Hey guys.

I haven't written anything in the forum in a while. I hadn't seen the point really, I usually just come through to see what everyone's talking about, and if something's on my mind I speak it. Now I'd hate to go on a rant, but everytime I take a look at a post, I see somebody trying to get an question answered, and low and behold, they either catch heat about being a newbie, or trying something different with their 240. I just came out of a post where someone had a question about custom audio setups, and some jerk asks him if he knows he is on zilvia.net. Then I see DSC making a comment on how wings aren't respected on the site, like it's the mark of a ricer What the hell is that supposed to mean? This is a website for enthusiasts right? Most, if not all of us have 240's or 300z's. What is the problem with someone wanting to do something a lil special with theirs. Is there something wrong if you want to have a beautiful audio setuo in your ride, or feel like dropping a kit on it? What's the difference between doing that and putting in a sr20det? Nothing, we all want our cars to be a lil different than the next one on the street. I love my 91 240, but I don't want it looking just like the one next door, and I don't feel I or anyone else should catch heat or be considered a ricer because they want to hook their audio or getting a bomex kit. The point is we all love the 240, and no one is an absolute expert on what to do with the car, so people will have questions. If you have an answer you should help them out with a little wisdom and experience, not try to make them feel like an ass. I think the forum needs a little more good help and less bitching. If anyone agrees with this or disagrees, I'd like to hear some civilized feedback.  [Ignore the Newbie mark, I've always been here....you just never knew]

[SR20Fastback]

hmm I thought things were actually getting a little better. I really hadn't noticed as much bitching and messin around with newbies as before.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ June 10 2002,8:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hmm I thought things were actually getting a little better. I really hadn't noticed as much bitching and messin around with newbies as before.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
that's because i haven't been around much lately. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

but yeah......get over it.

[guidot]

I noticed tnord hasn't been hangin around lately...maybe thats why its so quiet...
I used to be in the same boat, but most of the members and fanatics are right...no one does their homework before making a post and its tough to answer 200 of the same exact question...That is something I now understand...

[mbmbmb23]

Yeah, I sometimes feel people are just itching to flame......but thats the risk you run when posting something on the internet.

When DSC mentioned that wings arent respected on this site, well....he's just being honest. If someone posts a pic of their car, and they have a wing that looks very out of place.....there will be comments like "nice car...but....the wing looks wierd". If someone posts a pic of their car and it has alot of wheelgap, that will get picked on also. But...thats all a matter of opinion.

Alot of the long time forum posters on this site love the 240sx, in the way that art collectors love certain pieces of art. When someone mods their car, and it looks awkward, its like taking a nice painting and using spray paint to "improve" the painting and add your own personal touches to it. You may like it, but everyone else cringes. Personally I dont care if people rice out 240's, because it just makes mine look even classier. Unfortunately not everyone has $$ to do things as they'd like to.....and ultimately end up buying mods at AutoZone. For me, I'd rather stay completely stock than spend money on trashy upgrades.

I guess my point is....some people have bad taste...and those who mod their cars in accordance with that bad taste....will get flamed....like it or not.


-m

[Drifting Ricer]

Well some people like different things. Some people want a nice sounding car otheres want a fast car. It's up to the end user. I just think that a SR20DET is better the a custom sound system.

[DSC]

Griffon2k, we are human.

It is our very nature to want others to believe the same as us.
Look at all the wars over religon...

I think wings are "ghey" unless they actually provide downforce on a car that needs it.
I am against street racing. I am against rice. I am against people hardly part of the community ranting. I am against looks before speed.
As a human, its my nature to want you to believe the way I do. Why else would there be such heated debates and all out flame wars about dumb shit like "rice" and "drifting"?

"Then I see DSC making a comment on how wings aren't respected on the site, like it's the mark of a ricer What the hell is that supposed to mean?"
A wing IS the mark of a ricer. You have a wing don't you?

"This is a website for enthusiasts right?"
Would a TRUE enthusiast put a wing on their car? WTF! Usually enthusiasts know something about what they are into and anybody who knows about cars (aerodynamics specifically) would NOT put a wing on their car unless it was for racing.

"Alot of the long time forum posters on this site love the 240sx, in the way that art collectors love certain pieces of art. When someone mods their car, and it looks awkward, its like taking a nice painting and using spray paint to "improve" the painting and add your own personal touches to it. You may like it, but everyone else cringes."-mbmbmb23
BINGO!

BTW, I never said there was anything wrong with a sound system. And the person who did was already corrected by me <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

You say your here a lot but there have been a LOT of things said that were much worse than in that audio thread so quite frankly, I don't believe you. But I thank you for makeing your 14th post a lame one.

Griffon2k, get over it...

PS: travis, I'm trying to be nicer...we need you around more so I can feel justice is done w/out getting my hands dirty <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ June 09 2002,11:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1)Now I'd hate to go on a rant, but

2)Then I see DSC making a comment on how wings aren't respected on the site, like it's the mark of a ricer What the hell is that supposed to mean?

3)[Ignore the Newbie mark, I've always been here....you just never knew]</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ok. &nbsp;I have highlighted 3 parts that piss me off. &nbsp;And numbered them, too!
1) But you do it anyway! &nbsp;Quit sniveling!!
2) Just what DSC said.
and finally
3) Always been here. &nbsp;For 2 months and 18 days. &nbsp;hmmm....
And this compares to the "old members" year plus? &nbsp;I don't EVER want to hear you speak like you have "always" been here!
-Jeff

[misnomer]

I just wanted to establish the fact that I hate you all.

Thank you for your time <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[MrMigs]

Haha... excellent.



....
TOASTY!!!

[Griffon2k]

Lol,

That kind of proves my point now doesn't it. I do appreciate all the feedback. I would like to challenge a couple points though to those who had something meaningful to say. I believe someone commented that "you get a little tired of answering the same question 200 times". My feeling on that is that if you feel you have answered that question to the point that you have to flame someone for asking it, maybe you should let someone else answer it instead. I'm sure you have had questions before also. And DSC, being detailed as you usually are, I do respect your point of view. I challenge you however on the view that wanting your 240sx to stand out from the crowd makes you a ricer. I am an enthusiast. I have loved and researched the beauty that is the 240sx since it first came to America and could not wait to get my hands on a 91. hell I love the feel of just driving the machine. I do want MY 240sx to be different from others however and that does not make me any more a ricer than someone who spends 2000 to put a sr20 into theirs. Do I have a wing? Not yet, but I am placing one on in the near future to provide appropriate downforce for racing. The Bomex kit I spoke about is planned for next year when I finally complete the tuning job of my sr20 and install it, aerodynamics has a lot of influence on speed when used properly. To make it short, I plan on cranking every bit of performance I can out of MY 240sx because Nissan built it for that purpose, and I don't intend to do it with parts from AutoZone. I'm not a ricer, I am every bit of an enthusiast as you are, but I don't consider my 240 to be antique. If I did, I would lock it away in my garage and show off on weekends. To hell with that, the 240 is a car, a beauty at that. You don't let it sit and go to waste. You use it like it was intended to be used. You strengthen it, You perfect it, and then you take it out on the road or the track and you enjoy the absolute hell of it. DSC, I respect you and your views, but you shouldn't label someone a ricer b/c they have a wing, or have modified their car. That why they created Nismo. Would the skyline GTR have been the beast it is today if someone hadn't tried to squeeze more potential out of it? Of course not. I'm not saying I condone look before speed, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind if the two came together. The bone-stock 240sx is beautiful, but it could be faster, and there is nothing wrong with trying to see how fast it can go. I just don't think you should write people off so easily. Also DSC, would you my posting a picture of your car? Oh, and before I forget....I did see a comment at the end about my length of time being here in the forums. What I meant by the quote was, I have always been with the 240sx, being considered a newbie here is just a stipulation. You're right, I haven't been here a year and a half, and I don't have 5 million posts, b/c I actually spend time working on and driving the car we all talk about so much. Maybe you should spend some more time with yours. You're better than me b/c you live on the internet? Get over YOURSELF.

[Yosho]

Ok, I'll chip in my 2 cents... the complaints/bitching are nothing new to internet forums. &nbsp;Every car culture has trolls. &nbsp;Just don't let it drive you away from YOUR hobby. &nbsp;Too often I'm reminded of High School when I'm on the boards. &nbsp;It's all about what type of jeans or shoes the popular kids in school have. &nbsp;If XYZ product is now unfashionable... it's considered "ghey".


As far as specifics go...

I don't think I'd ever put a wing on one of my cars that wasn't functional... however, that's just my "style." &nbsp;I don't see the difference between putting a "ghey" wing and putting a new front bumper (or rear bumper... or side skirts for that matter). &nbsp;I see a lot of people calling wings gay that turn around and do "style" mods to their own car. &nbsp;How many owners (on any enthusiast forum not just this one) go to the trouble of creating underbody skirts or actually CARE about the body creating positive lift? &nbsp;Pretty much nobody. &nbsp;Why? &nbsp;My belief is it's because wings are now out of style with the elite crowd... but a nice front bumper... or a tail light mod. &nbsp;Now you're talking. &nbsp;That's money well spent. &nbsp;

The absolute worst thing I see though... are people who complain about others not searching the archives. &nbsp;Yes, they're right to point out that people should search first... however, the venom that the replys contain is uncalled for. &nbsp;If you have the time to correct the person, and tell them they should search the archives... you should at least take the time to answer their question. &nbsp;If you correct them in a polite way... maybe they WILL search the archives next time. &nbsp;Too often, the only people who reply are trolls. &nbsp;That's sad as it drives a lot of people away from the boards. &nbsp;I think this get's back to people thinking they're better than others... and elite for some reason known only to themselves.

If you really want to be part of a larger culture, you need to accept that not everyone is going to like what you do... but that goes both ways. &nbsp;For those of you who want to be "elite" you shouldn't expect everyone to like your new "silly" $200 sway bar. &nbsp;You and I may both think it's money well spent, but just accept it that not everyone spends money in the same way.

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ June 10 2002,2:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To make it short, I plan on cranking every bit of performance I can out of MY 240sx because Nissan built it for that purpose, and I don't intend to do it with parts from AutoZone.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i have oem nissan z32 calipers i bought from autozone.........am i a ricer? and why do people get bashed?

cause we got idiots saying they want jdm this drift that sr20 this blah blah blah.

my buddy came on here and all he said is "why is every other post about drifting?"

kinda gets me upset when people watch initial d and option videos all day.
yes i flame people too tnrod probably gets more attention cause hes so good at it dsc trys to be nice i didnt see anything wrong with any of his comments in the audio topic its a public forum. instead of you asking whats up with the "hating" which btw the word "hater, hating" is so fucking retarded imho you should have been like "why do we have such idiots asking ?'s that are answered in faq/archives or that can be answered by typing in key words on search engines?

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

[Yosho]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ June 10 2002,02:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">my buddy came on here and all he said is "why is every other post about drifting?"

kinda gets me upset when people watch initial d and option videos all day.
yes i flame people too tnrod probably gets more attention cause hes so good at it dsc trys to be nice i didnt see anything wrong with any of his comments in the audio topic its a public forum. instead of you asking whats up with the "hating" which btw the word "hater, hating" is so fucking retarded imho you should have been like "why do we have such idiots asking ?'s that are answered in faq/archives or that can be answered by typing in key words on search engines?

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ok, I've only been on this board for a month... help teach me the rules please.

Question for you... what's wrong with drifiting? &nbsp;I watch Option videos... what's wrong with that? &nbsp;Lol... does that make me a ricer now? &nbsp;

You flame people and that's ok? &nbsp;(only if they're not eLiTe right?)

"Hater" is fucking retarded but calling someone an idiot is ok?

What other rules should I know? &nbsp;Please I really do want to be eLiTe.


Look, I know I'm busting your balls about this... but really... this is silly. &nbsp;What does it matter if people ask questions you've answered 100 times... skip the post, don't answer it, and move on. &nbsp;If they like things you don't, go talk about things you like, who knows... maybe you'll "convert" some of them to your form of religion.

[MrMigs]

You are all bitter sons o' bitches

[camppain]

there is nothing wrong with drifitng sir. its the type of topics about them. option videos are cool. nothing wrong with them just some of the peoples attidtudes after they watch them and go and do power slides with their open diff and say "I pUlLeD a M4d PhAt DrIfT y0"
did i say you were a ricer? no isad people who watch them and think thats the only thing that should be done in a 240 i.e. hey i want to get a drift body kit and i want a 6 speed silvia motor not a sr20det i want the s15 motor those are faster and better for drifting

hater is so hip pop <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> my opinion like i said its a public forum.
am i eLitE? i dunno ive never seen myself type like that nor do i ever say i am better than anyone. if that was the case i wouldnt come here and answer ?'s even ones that have been answered.

i answer topics that have been asked 100 times over i may be sarcastic with it but i answeer them nonethe less like the guy who asked about a silvia front end. i answered it and he called me an ass for calling him lazy with a emoticon

so do i act eleite? no sir i in now way act in a higher than thou manner
rules? sure dont post whore thats the main one as in any forum.
and i flame people who desrve it like hey my car has a sr i hated the ka truck motor or hey my arospeed coilovers are better than your cusco etc etc there are stupid people why do you guys feel like you should act different or be nice to them? i act how i act no diff from the internet if i dont like someone im not going to be 2 faced about it ive gotten into arguments with other members but who cares im not gonna cry over it i just want to see more quality posts.

[Grant]

heh, wing out of place??!

now THIS is out of place, but I love it!
hell even the trunk matches the spoiler rather than the rest of the car.

http://home.earthlink.net/~stofer007/newtoys/ks4.jpg

hrmm funny thing, I think DSC's car is the same color too!! (cobalt blue?)
MUWAHAHAHAHA..
eh well he doesnt like wings.

I AM THE KING OF ALL RICE <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

[Yosho]

Thanks for replying...

Like I said, I know I was busting your balls... and my beef's not with you or anyone else here specifically for that matter. Maybe it's just because it's 4:30 and I have insomnia (probably).... I don't know. Lol. I was too crass.

I've read a lot of your posts in the month I've been here and they've always seemed right on point. I hope you'll agree though with the general point being made... that there are some people that troll and do belive in being elite (better than others). If they can, they'll bring us all down to their level. I don't street race and I think the Fast & Furious was god awful and just about the worst thing to happen to our hobby... but I'm also aware that it's all too easy to fall into the trap of dismissing anyone who does like those things without further justification.

Let me blow against the wind one last time... I guess my only point is that I've been as guilty as anyone in thinking that my views are correct and those who disagree are wrong. Over the years in this hobby I've come to the conclusion that it takes all kinds... all we can hope to do is discuss and perhaps educate people to know what they're buying and why. If they still want big wings and cut springs, at least they'll know it's only for looks and nothing else. Unfortunatly, on most boards, moderators don't do what their name implies... they don't moderate the discussion and keep it civil, on track, and insightful.

Again, these are general comments about all boards and not specifically this one. As a whole, I like this board and the Nissan community a lot more than other boards/communities I've been active in. I think as a whole we're a lot more civil and adult about our hobby. I just hope with our increasing popularity that we don't devolve.

[Yosho]

Nice wing... I wouldn't do that or the Silvia badge... but it's nice none the less. &nbsp;Very clean looking.

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yosho @ June 10 2002,4:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks for replying...

Like I said, I know I was busting your balls... and my beef's not with you or anyone else here specifically for that matter. Maybe it's just because it's 4:30 and I have insomnia (probably).... I don't know. Lol. I was too crass.

I've read a lot of your posts in the month I've been here and they've always seemed right on point. I hope you'll agree though with the general point being made... that there are some people that troll and do belive in being elite (better than others). If they can, they'll bring us all down to their level. I don't street race and I think the Fast & Furious was god awful and just about the worst thing to happen to our hobby... but I'm also aware that it's all too easy to fall into the trap of dismissing anyone who does like those things without further justification.

Let me blow against the wind one last time... I guess my only point is that I've been as guilty as anyone in thinking that my views are correct and those who disagree are wrong. Over the years in this hobby I've come to the conclusion that it takes all kinds... all we can hope to do is discuss and perhaps educate people to know what they're buying and why. If they still want big wings and cut springs, at least they'll know it's only for looks and nothing else. Unfortunatly, on most boards, moderators don't do what their name implys... they don't moderate the discussion and keep it civil, on track, and insightful.

Again, these are general comments about all boards and not specifically this one. As a whole, I like this board and the Nissan community a lot more than other boards/communities I've been active in. I think as a whole we're a lot more civil and adult about our hobby. I just hope with our increasing popularity that we don't devolve.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
not at all bruh i didnt take anything the wrong way sir. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> we both drive b13's and have a b14 why would i quarrel? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> plus i too have insomnia and its the same time here in chicago <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>

and i do agree alot of what you have stated is true this is why i try to discuss instead of be more agrumentive. to many times when your opinion is in conflict with another the other the two begina quarell to see whos p*nis is bigger than the others

of course i would win lmao j/p but i fully understand you

and i just use sir cause ive been thingking bout the damn peanuts cartoon lately for some reason &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

and i know in one topic you either replied or started i asked you if your in mexico cause the tsuro is the mexican b13 iirc i forgot which one though so i dont know if you rplied to it or not

[MrMigs]

First of all, it's spelled l33t or 3l33t.
haha.. whatevers, it doesn't even matter. 2:33AM, Pacific Time. Wonder who is still online at this hour...

[9524tee]

why just make a plain 240 like everyone else? in my opinion i think its dope to do different things to a car, it fits a persons personality , and if it suits them then whatever why diss someone with a CREATIVE personality. i give much props to the peeps out there that are trying different stuff....

[HippoSleek]

Geezsus - of all the people who you could have bitched about for flaming - DSC!! Come ON! Have you no eyes? Dave is among the nicest on this forum (of the vetrans). If anyone will answer a stupid question - again - it is him. Camppain is also nothing but helpful. How Travis and me got left of the list is unfathomable.

However, rather than bow to your Mydol induced rant, I'll simply point out a few things:

1. Wings - Since you are such a proponant of wings (and are getting one for necessary "downforce") perhaps you can share what kind of racing you do that requires such a modification? Second, please inform as to where you plan to do the testing to assure yourself that you are not creating more drag or lift than necessary? Fact: most aftermarket wings actually create LIFT b/c of their poor engineering. But why put someone to task for their winged fantasies? B/c I don't agree and I am the king of my world... Or maybe b/c there have been more than a few people I've helped do things the *right* way after we got off to a bad start.

2. "Enthusiasts" - the word requires a modifier to define it (240 enthusiast, beer enthusiast, etc.). &nbsp;It is a bit odd to hold it up using the blanket statement that we are all "enthusiasts." I can assure you that I am quite enthusiastic, but not about the same things you are. Accordingly, our differing interests lead to different interpretations - and attempts to mold others to our belief. Anyone is free to say - "I don't care what you say, I want a wing b/c I need downforce."

3. Too good for the internet - Good for you that you spend all your time working on the car! I'm glad you are too good for us. Really!

4. Here's the overview. You have the audacity to come here and flame a couple of the most helpful members of the forum why? B/c you don't come around much? B/c there is too much flaming? I think that your lack of expereince with the boards is the exact reason you don't understand what is going on. Since you don't get out much, I'll give you the short form: In the last year, the 240 has gone from an obscurity to THE next import trend. With trends come trendies. Any time you have trendies and traditionalists, you have a clash (see, French Revolution, Rock & Roll, Vietnam era, etc.). That is what is going on here - and for better or worse, places like FA and Zilvia are the battlefield. If we want to keep this place from becoming the next superhonda, CSI, etc. we have to be willing to dish out a little bit of smack to keep them clicking until they get to NICO. That's just the way it is pal.

Good luck - and if that wing doesn't work out, at least it will double as an ironing board <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

You can log out now. &nbsp;*Good bye*

[fast]

Thanks griffon. I have a weelie weelie big gt wing on my car that i like to show off. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'>

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ June 09 2002,04:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lol,

That kind of proves my point now doesn't it. I do appreciate all the feedback. I would like to challenge a couple points though to those who had something meaningful to say. I believe someone commented that "you get a little tired of answering the same question 200 times". My feeling on that is that if you feel you have answered that question to the point that you have to flame someone for asking it, maybe you should let someone else answer it instead. I'm sure you have had questions before also. And DSC, being detailed as you usually are, I do respect your point of view. I challenge you however on the view that wanting your 240sx to stand out from the crowd makes you a ricer. I am an enthusiast. I have loved and researched the beauty that is the 240sx since it first came to America and could not wait to get my hands on a 91. hell I love the feel of just driving the machine. I do want MY 240sx to be different from others however and that does not make me any more a ricer than someone who spends 2000 to put a sr20 into theirs. Do I have a wing? Not yet, but I am placing one on in the near future to provide appropriate downforce for racing. The Bomex kit I spoke about is planned for next year when I finally complete the tuning job of my sr20 and install it, aerodynamics has a lot of influence on speed when used properly. To make it short, I plan on cranking every bit of performance I can out of MY 240sx because Nissan built it for that purpose, and I don't intend to do it with parts from AutoZone. I'm not a ricer, I am every bit of an enthusiast as you are, but I don't consider my 240 to be antique. If I did, I would lock it away in my garage and show off on weekends. To hell with that, the 240 is a car, a beauty at that. You don't let it sit and go to waste. You use it like it was intended to be used. You strengthen it, You perfect it, and then you take it out on the road or the track and you enjoy the absolute hell of it. DSC, I respect you and your views, but you shouldn't label someone a ricer b/c they have a wing, or have modified their car. That why they created Nismo. Would the skyline GTR have been the beast it is today if someone hadn't tried to squeeze more potential out of it? Of course not. I'm not saying I condone look before speed, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind if the two came together. The bone-stock 240sx is beautiful, but it could be faster, and there is nothing wrong with trying to see how fast it can go. I just don't think you should write people off so easily. Also DSC, would you my posting a picture of your car? Oh, and before I forget....I did see a comment at the end about my length of time being here in the forums. What I meant by the quote was, I have always been with the 240sx, being considered a newbie here is just a stipulation. You're right, I haven't been here a year and a half, and I don't have 5 million posts, b/c I actually spend time working on and driving the car we all talk about so much. Maybe you should spend some more time with yours. You're better than me b/c you live on the internet? Get over YOURSELF.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

"I challenge you however on the view that wanting your 240sx to stand out from the crowd makes you a ricer."
Don't put words in my mouth! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

"To hell with that, the 240 is a car, a beauty at that. You don't let it sit and go to waste. You use it like it was intended to be used. You strengthen it, You perfect it, and then you take it out on the road or the track and you enjoy the absolute hell of it."
NO SHIT!

"you shouldn't label someone a ricer b/c they have a wing, or have modified their car."
What the hell? I modify my car. I love modified cars. Can you read? I just think wings are dumb and I'm not a fan of the show scene.

"You're better than me b/c you live on the internet?"
This is the point where I lose all respect for griffon. I don't even need to say anything to that. Everybody who reads it knows...

"Get over YOURSELF"
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

There is a picture of my car in every post. and if you click on it, it'll take you to a website where you can find more pictures of it... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>
Why would you like to see a picture of my car anyway? You going to try and say I'm rice? Try to find something in there to show that I like modifying my car? LoL, how lame. And before you even say shit...I had my cd player before the car. I don't know how you will try to use that against me but you obviously are out to get me or somthing so I'll just stop that now.

Griffon. You are a troll by the very definition.
Even though you don't post much, I usually don't forget people. &nbsp;And I remember this isn't your first post of the type...I would prove it but seach is broken.

PS. Grant, you little ricer you <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[fast]

I'm taking my wing off tomorrow and burning it!! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

[Nismos14]

jeez we can't read all those paragraphs but from what it looks like at least u guys arent fighting too much, u all must be in &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'> &nbsp;hehe w/ the 240 of course and every one has an opinion but when its opposite of what the majority believes then ppl will make there comments its just the way life is so yah &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[thewholefnshow]

Jeez, lick a ball, seriously. Flaming, constructive critisism, whatever. The only thing worse than flaming is 10 page long crap about flaming. You have 15 posts, have been her for a few months, and are obviously a mainstay member like the guys you so readily bitched about. Maybe if you were a member who provided the same level of insite as the horrible DSC people would give a shit, but as it is you just seem petty and bitchy. If you don't like it, leave, I can assure you no one will notice.

Grow a thicker skin.

[JEdubz]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (thewholefnshow @ June 10 2002,09:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Grow a thicker skin.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Exactly, a thicker skin indeed. And then roll in the mud and let it dry, aligators do that and it helps make their skins harder. But anyway... back to the topic of wings,body kits, rice, and griffon.

First off Griffon I'm a newbie too (by Zilvia definition) but I chose not to target myself as flamable by attempting to criticize the elders. And I read somewhere (back in the last two pages) that wings are legitimate sources of performance? And body kits for aerodynamics? Now dont get me wrong eventuallly I'm going to get a GP Sports bumper on my car (once I get it lol) and some decent side skirts but don't ever in your life think that a body kit is going to do shit for you. If you wanna say that body kits are lighter than the stock 240 parts you're wrong there...because a fiberglass bumper weighs a hell of alot more than a plastic one (im talking s13's).. Oh yeah and wings for downforce? I'm not sure which issue this was discussed in but there was an article in SCC a few months ago about how a GT wing really only adds any signifigant help for downforce when you're over 135 mph... And even then it didn't improve much. So anyways, just say you're trying to make your car look different from stock. And putting body kits and chrome rims and shit like that dont make you look different from the rest, because besides our small niche of FC's, S13's and S14's (and a trueno or two) we are pretty much all thats left besides the ricers. So if you're not with us...YOUR WITH THEM!

[JeffNJ]

Someone asked what "rice" meant earlier.

Based solely on posts here, this is what I've come to realize...

Rice: 1. (n.) Any mod whatsoever that more people and/or people with more seniority at zilvia.net dislike than like. &nbsp;This can include, but is not limited to: wings, stickers, lights, air freshners, items purchased from the wrong store, items purchased in the wrong color, and in some cases, the entire car itself. &nbsp;2. (n.) Any action conducted with, near, or while thinking about, the vehicle in question which is unnappreciated by more people and/or people with more seniority than by those who appreciate said action/comment/thought. &nbsp;This can include, but is not limited to: racing, drifting, parallel parking, and engine revving.

...so, essentially, newbies - good luck.

[ca18guy]

This thread blows.