roll bar/cage dimensions + info + pics

[Toka Motorsports]

ive searched around (about 15 of 157 threads that come up for roll cage) and tried to look for sizes and specs of peoples rollcages but all i could find was a bunch of people intrested in rollcages and where they could get them.... so im requesting for people to post their roll cage tubing sizes, tubing length, specs, pics, suggestions (through dash or bends? boltin or weld in? mild steel or chromoly? DIY or shop? how low or high to put the harness bar? roof, sunroof, or no roof? or basically anything that can help lowballers like me get ideas for making a great cage instead of buying a cusco one that is not even scca certified...)

so if you have a cage in your car come forward and post please!!!

[g6civcx]

I'm getting to get a basic 4-point rollbar put in. Couple of points for you:

* Ideally the bars would run as close to the body as possible. In order to offer as much protection as possible, the bars have to run as close to the b-pillar as possible. This means you'll lose your OEM 3-point belts. You should really run a proper harness bar anyhow.

* The main hoop design has to put it as close to the roof as possible. This means you'll lose your headliner.

* There are also some other fine points about design, such as where the rear bars should meet. You need some experience to design a good cage. Otherwise they just add weight without offering any protection.

* Avoid mounting to the floorpan. They're weak and will eat right through when you crash.

* Try to have the rear bars meet at the reinforced strut towers. Some people build some goofy cages that don't meet at all. A good shop should be able to help you.

* If you choose to run door bars, the best way would be to run without door panels so the bars can go up right against the door.

You can make some concessions if you still want to keep your trim panels, but ideally the best way is to strip as much of the interior as possible.

[drew935]

That's not true about losing your 3pt seatbelts. Every car and rollcage setup is different. You can run doorbars without having to remove your doorpanels. It's all about the setup whether it's custom or prefabricated cage like Cusco or Autopower, etc. I have a chromoly 6pt cage in my civic with around the dash bends, mounts with bolts to the chassis. I still have the headliner in and can fit 3 people in the rear seats.
Toka, you'll have to go see them in person as sometimes pics don't do justice. Here are some from my civic to give you an idea. Enjoy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/drew935/935%20Si/th_int2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/drew935/935%20Si/int2.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/drew935/935%20Si/th_int1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/drew935/935%20Si/int1.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/drew935/935%20Si/th_rearint2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/drew935/935%20Si/rearint2.jpg)

[g6civcx]

You can keep your whole interior, but the structural integrity of the cage will be compromised.

The ideal design would put the bars right up flat against the body. This means there will be no room for trim panels.

You can leave a gap for trim, but that's room the body will collapse before hitting the cage. But for those who run in showroom classes you can't remove any interior pieces so you have to compromise.

But ideally the best design is no gap.

Not to criticise your car or anything, but that cage looks more cosmetic than functional. The way it bends around the dash compromises the strength of the main bar. A strong bar would go straight through the dash. There are some gaps, especially around the main hoop. If your car was going over the roof would have a few inches to cave in before hitting the bar.

I can't even see where the rear downbars bolt to. Are they bolted to the unreinforced floorboard?


I wouldn't carry rear passengers in a cage. I would also pad the hell out of the bars. There should be no exposed metal where your body can hit it in a collision.


Again, I'm not ripping into your car. I'm just saying those are things I would do on my own car. You do what you like and if it makes you happy then more power to you, as long as you know what it takes to be safe.

Like I said, rollcage design is really hard to do right. You need a shop that has a lot of experience to design one for you.

[drew935]

Yes, the cage is functional but it is a streetcage. I would have gone with a through the dash front bars but at the time didn't think much of it. I don't daily drive the car and mostly just want to run it at Laguna Seca. As far as padding, I haven't gotten around to it since I rarely drive it now. The rears are mounted to the rear wheel wells just shy of the towers. Because my car has a part-time sponsoreship with Cusco is why I ran their cage. Their other cages are better designed and built for more rigorous racing.
g6civcx, no criticize was taken. all good points.

Maybe when I decide to run this more for the track then I'll replace the front bars, remove the interior, and run carbon connecting door bars. as for now, it just rests in the garage :)

[hitman]

thats a cusco cage
not even scca legal
not to functional.

[g6civcx]

Glad to see you know what I'm saying. If you have sponsors, by all means do what you gotta do.

I'm just saying it's not SCCA legal because if you flip with one of those, the cage itself may collapse and makes it even harder to cut you out of the car.

But sounds like you know about all that so more power to you.

[Dousan_PG]

cusco wont crush wher u people get these ideas? cusco isnt that bad, ive seen cars that have flipped w/ cusco cages or safety 21 and the cage is fine

yes a welded in closer cage is fine.
plenty of racing cars use the safety 21/cusco cage cars that go faster thenmost here and drive more then most on this forum do and there are no problems.

it is nice to have passenger use and interior
my friends 500 HP markII has a safety 21 cage and we went drifting w/ him me and 3 passengers in the back in touge. it was fine. car is still stiff and no rpoblems

ugh so annoying how many times do we have to go thru this?

[blu808]

Safety 21 is legal. the regular one isnt.


Also i dont reccomend a cage on the street, because if you crash, and your head hits the bars, it will explode. Even with padding.

[McRussellPants]

Safety 21 is legal. the regular one isnt.


Also i dont reccomend a cage on the street, because if you crash, and your head hits the bars, it will explode. Even with padding.

Are you sure?

I heard SCCA gets bent out of shape about the Hinged Bars.


That would totally rock, theres noone in my area that can build a good cage unless its retarded amounts of money. (I may post pics up later of a guy who trys, 6 bends in the mainhoop, no thanks).

[blu808]

hmm. my mistake. the safety 21 was formula d legal. not sure about this year.

[Izzy's Cages]

It all depends on what sanctioning body you're aiming for and which class. SCCA Club racing has slightly different rules than solo. NHRA has completely different tubing specs and mounting point requirements.

If you even think that you'll end up at Gateway, go with 1 5/8"x.125 DOM. If you're dong Auto-x primarily, 1.75"x.120 DOM. WHatever you do, go with DOM tubing. ERW is on its way out with most sanctioning bodies.

Tight to the body is a must, but dont forget, the primary job of a cage or bar is to protect the driver in a collision/rollover... NOT to make the car stiffer.

I don't recommend full cages for the street in non-competition cars (one guy runs a pro-rally car as his daily driver), but a well designed 6 point rollbar is perfectly safe IF you're strapped in.

BTW... I'm in St. Louis... shoot me and email [email protected]
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/CustCars/240sx/P1010001.JPG
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/CustCars/240sx/P9120063.JPG

[blu808]

nice cages. Heres some of our work.

http://www.shockdrifting.com/articles/lukefd/4-60.jpg

http://www.andrewbohan.com/media/andrewfc/2-21.jpg

http://www.andrewbohan.com/media/andrewfc/2-22.jpg

http://www.andrewbohan.com/media/andrewfc/2-23.jpg

[g6civcx]

Luke, your cage is beautiful. Sits nice and close to the body. Good reinforcement points. I'd be proud to have that in my car.

Also, a cage has nothing to do with how "fast" you go. You can go off the road at 15mph and roll down the hill forever. The primary purpose is to protect the vehicle by keeping the passenger compartment intact so the driver and passenger aren't injured by protrusions.

I don't understand why people say this person goes 100mph or that person has 1000bhp. Any car can flip and the clumsier the driver is, the more likely the vehicle is to flip. True that speed and power increases the risk of a rollover, but chew on this.

According to the NHTSA, the single most common cause for single-vehicle rollover fatality is unintentional off-roading caused by excessive corner entry speed. For racing, inexperienced drivers enter corners with too much speed and make midcorner corrections that upsets vehicle balance even more. All these things increases the risk for rollovers.

A car without a cage can roll without problems. So obviously a car with a poorly designed cage can roll without problems. Since crashes by nature are unpredictable, wouldn't it make sense to provide as much protection as possible?

My philosophy has always been to purchase the best safety equipment you can buy. It's like folks who buy a $10k motorbike but won't throw down $2k for safety gear. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't play. Pick up a cheaper hobby :)


My roommate does crash tests for the NHTSA. His team has published many reports you can research on their site. I have spoken at length with the engineers at the various vehicle testing facilities about the topic. My conclusion has been that rollcages are to provide rollover protection, which is the most common accident in racing. But for general street use, the most common cause of multi-vehicle fatality is side impact and offset frontal impact, such as the kinds you'll find when vehicles collide at intersections.

True that the cause of single vehicle fatality is rollover due to improper cornering, but you can remedy that by reducing your entry speed. This act of braking early and gearing down can reduce your risk of a rollover. But there is less you can do about collisions at intersections. The most you can do is slow down, make yourself visible, and cover your brakes. You look them in the eyes and they run you over anyway :)

Take that for what it's worth and do what you wish. Be safe :)

[swwifty]

It all depends on what sanctioning body you're aiming for and which class. SCCA Club racing has slightly different rules than solo. NHRA has completely different tubing specs and mounting point requirements.

If you even think that you'll end up at Gateway, go with 1 5/8"x.125 DOM. If you're dong Auto-x primarily, 1.75"x.120 DOM. WHatever you do, go with DOM tubing. ERW is on its way out with most sanctioning bodies.

Tight to the body is a must, but dont forget, the primary job of a cage or bar is to protect the driver in a collision/rollover... NOT to make the car stiffer.

I don't recommend full cages for the street in non-competition cars (one guy runs a pro-rally car as his daily driver), but a well designed 6 point rollbar is perfectly safe IF you're strapped in.

BTW... I'm in St. Louis... shoot me and email [email protected]

Holy crap! How did you get your EVO seat to fit in there with the door panel still on? I have a S14, and my seat rubs the door panels.

Custom rails? Thanks.

[supportTHEezln]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/DSCF0066.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/DSCF0055.jpg
That was it before the sheet metal and some other various stuff. I used 1.5"x.095" wall DOM; welded in of course. I used boxes to lower/raise the cage, and those I MIG'd in but the tubes are I would say 90% TIG'd together and are TIG'd to the boxes. I'll take some pics sometime this week to show it finished with the sheet metal, and some pics of the harness bar, like you'd asked (I personally used guides for my harness bar, similar to the guides on the Sparco bolt in one. Oh yea, I guess it was "DIY" and I went through the dash.
EDIT: And for my suggestion, because of SCCA's political/economic reasons, don't use chromoly, and MIG is fine (but TIG will of course look nicer and be the best bet if you can weld properly). Also, don't go overboard on your cage, especially if you're using stock doors etc, but make sure it's safe and sound. Hmmm, oh yea, take out your seat/harness set up if you're going to MIG anything after you've put it in! =PP

More pics of harness bar and post sheet metal...1.3mp lol

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/6c69f43c.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/a2465630.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/DSCF0057.jpg
^cool the reflection makes the front look like ghostly sheet metal or something =]
And yea, half of those holes on the B-Pillar are cover by the body, basically the cage was so close to the body that I had to =\ I think it looks kind of weird from the front because it looks like half circles.

[swwifty]

So can someone tell me how they fit there EVO seat in their S14 with the door panel? What rails are you guys using?

[supportTHEezln]

I'm using rails I made, I'll take pics of it later. The main rail part is actually make out of the same DOM tubing as my cage lol =P (it was leftover)

[swwifty]

I'm using rails I made, I'll take pics of it later. The main rail part is actually make out of the same DOM tubing as my cage lol =P (it was leftover)

I'd love to see some pictures. I'm about to do some custom rails for my s14 and EVO seat.

[supportTHEezln]

driver side : http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/DSCF0058.jpg
passenger side : http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/7651c85a.jpg

The reason they're different is because the driver side originally was like the passenger side, but I modified each of them when I put in the cage so I could sit significantly lower, and the driver side rail didn't like that so I made a new one =P Also, I don't know if you can notice, but the driver side is tig and passenger is mig, haha. Anyway there it is.

I found a pic with the old rails while I still had interior: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/supportTHEezln/DSCF0003.jpg

[drew935]

Good job on the seat rails SupportTheEzln. I like the custom work done on that and the cage. And yeah Luke's work is all good too :bigok:

[whitey240]

I work with a guy that designs cages, and most of the time the cage function has to do with the installer. most of the questions you asked can be customized to allow you to have the cage you want. you also have to remember you need to build the cage to be legal for your racing activity. and a drift cage will be different then a drag race cage.

here is probably the best weld in cage I have found, for the best price!
http://shop.hybridynamics.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=210

http://shop.hybridynamics.com/productimages/product_images/suspension/chassis/cage2.jpg

[swwifty]

Here's a link to some pictures of my 4 point roll bar.

http://russmarshall.com/v/cars/dave240/

[drew935]

Whitey, is that a drag cage? The side/door bars look high and suited for drag...

[supportTHEezln]

That's also a roll bar not a full cage. And thanks Drew =D

[Izzy's Cages]

Sorry about that-and for bringing up a dead thread. Yes, custom adjustable rails.

http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/CustCars/240sx/P9120069.JPG

I think that's the only pic I have of them due to a computer crash a couple of years ago.