High horespower n/a vq [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

lcpljrm

04-09-2006, 05:22 PM

i'm just looking to get opinions on the viability of building a high rpm high hp n/a vq. i was thinking along the lines of a vq35 block from a z, and the crank and rods from a vq30det. those crank and rods can be had from performance nissan for relatively cheap. then all you would need would be some custom pistons with the piston pin moved a few(7, i think) milimeters down in whatever compression ratio you wanted. then there are the cosworth heads and the nismo s2 cam blanks that you can will allow a duration of up to 312 degrees. my reasons for such an engine are that it is much lighter than the other nissan engines available for our cars. the mass is also closer to the center of the vehicle. and na power is just cool. anyway, i'm just looking for thoughts and opinions.

p.s. i'm talking about building this motor for a swap into an s-chassis

Irukandji

04-09-2006, 05:36 PM

Try starting at a Z forum

EchoOfSilence

04-09-2006, 05:37 PM

a VQ? haha.

you're better off with an LS-1, man. and it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than what you're looking at. vq30 parts, cosworth ANYTHING, nismo cams... and then the fabbing for the swap. yeah, it'll be cool, and you may like it, but hell $$$$$$$$

PS: if you've gonna do it, get everything from cosworth :o

blu808

04-09-2006, 05:45 PM

lcpljrm

04-09-2006, 06:00 PM

well zilvia started out as a nissan z and silvia forum, hence "zilvia"

the ls1 is the only other motor i'm seriously considering for my car. or maybe a ka, but i would really love to stay na. you're probably right. itd be easier and cheaper to get more power from an ls1, which should still save weight over any turbo nissan swap i could come up with.

btw, i am talking about the VQ not the VG

mjjstang

04-09-2006, 08:04 PM

I think it would be so much cooler to put an ls1 in. and I think he meant to go to a z forum cuz not many people know a hwole bunch about the Z around here.

drift freaq

04-09-2006, 08:56 PM

Why does everyone want to put this motor in their car? Let me clear some things up for you.

VG engines:

Heavy as hell.

Not the most reliable motor.

Huge motor makes it hard to work on. in the car.

Ugly.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

I could keep going and going. Basically this motor sucks more than Al lagura's attitude. in my opinion.

Yes there is some good points to that motor, but i dont think its worth it.
Luke, you keep on confusing the VG with the VQ. In fact the VQ's are very light. They are a all aluminum engine. There are other things that will weigh heavly in their favor in the coming years, much more than your beloved LS1.

wootwoot

04-09-2006, 09:36 PM

VQ's are extremly light but mostly how much HP are you looking to get? its easier to say what to do when you give an example of what you want to accomplish.

lcpljrm

04-09-2006, 10:08 PM

400 happy little naturally aspirated horsies :rawk:

Ricks15

04-09-2006, 10:23 PM

Nothing like a cheap small block V8!!!!!!

blu808

04-09-2006, 11:23 PM

Haha. yea i confused the vg with the vq.

Still a vq would be cool, but do you guys understand how much money it would take to make a NA vq have 400hp.

Check out scotts performance website. they sell a built na motor and its retarded expensive.

Ricks15

04-10-2006, 12:25 AM

I was browseing through a option mag and there was a Nismo total engine kit that had from new heads to a carbon engine cover shroud, and i think its also a stroker with bigger pistions or some shit like that, msrp on that was like 900,000yen, who knows howmuch that would be in us dollars. In stupid street there was a section that said the VQ is gaining more and more popularity with all tuners but they perfer so squeeze power in NA format. So you never know all you 350 owners are going to have a lot of aftermarket available.

wootwoot

04-10-2006, 08:49 AM

Tex Willer

04-10-2006, 09:05 AM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/tjomi/tsvq32-01.jpg
Think this one was around 360hp at crank. Not bad.
Think it was 3.2 litres. Sits in a R32 Skyline GTR

drift freaq

04-10-2006, 11:23 AM

400 crank hp out of a vq35 or vq30 would be incredibly difficult. a vq30 sleeved with big bore might be the best option there since you are going to need serious revs and I still dont think thats going to cut it. I would expect an honest 10-15 grand for that motor atleast and then you wouldnt have the best driveability. I would honestly be impressed by a vq30 that laid down 250-270whp. How fast are you looking at beside "400 hp"?..

I know a Maxima owner with a blown VQ30 dumping out 400HP. I also know a 350z owner with a VQ35DETT putting out a dynoed 500HP and he drives it daily here in socal. The Myth of the VQ engine is that they will blow up if your turbo or supercharge them. Everyone forgets, stock the engines are high compression. Lower the compression to 9:1 and its a whole different ball game.
Yes NA is more expensive and it always will be. Best bang for the buck is a turbo engine.
Let me ask all of you this one question, Luke your excluded because your building track specific cars.
Have any of you ever driven a 400+ HP 2750LB car or lighter on the street?
I think a lot of you get caught up in this I want lots of power game without realizing. Its not that simple to keep a car that powerful on the ground, it takes a experienced driver and it is a handful.
Now I know, some of you may say well I have a 400HP SR. It does not compare to a 400HP 6 cylinder or 8 cylinder,which are going to have butt loads more torque. Which would make them even more harder to control because torque is what gets you off the line.
Building a NA VQ would be expensive. Taking a stock VQ dumping it in your car for a nice reliable 300hp setup? Not a bad idea. With some tuning it could be bumped a bit ala JWT. You want more out of it. Greddy has a kit thats legal for it.

blu808

04-10-2006, 11:27 AM

That is a good point. :naughty:

wootwoot

04-10-2006, 12:37 PM

I know someone in town who has a Turbonetics turbo kit and the Nismo exhaust on an otherwise stock 350z; pushes 6psi I think? Well otherday at the track it ran a 12.4 on street tires. So uh, not to shabby.
Drift Freaq, I was only speaking of naturally aspirated =D

drift freaq

04-10-2006, 05:23 PM

Var

04-10-2006, 06:04 PM

if you dont care about the money you can build many engines to rev high and have power. buy a jgtc vq engine

Ricks15

04-10-2006, 07:17 PM

In regaurds to that pic of that engine, WHY? is "Topsecret" so good at doing what they do?

sean350z

04-10-2006, 07:17 PM

from what i've heard...most (not including nismo, top secret) regular 350z owners have maxed out N/A around 300 whp. i know some are just a little over that. in most of those cases, more money was spent to go n/a then it costs for a f/i VQ engine. want high revving n/a (buy an s2k) :) want low end torque for the twisties go ls1 or vq

Var

04-10-2006, 08:04 PM

even if it could be done, what justifies it except curiousity? It's still pointless.

blu808

04-10-2006, 11:24 PM

Yea. its like hiring Al Lagura to drive your car into a wall. It just doesnt make sense.

Andrew Bohan

04-10-2006, 11:27 PM

what are you talking about? that makes perfect sense. if i want my car driven into a wall, al is the first person i'll call.

drift freaq

04-11-2006, 12:32 AM

Yea. its like hiring Al Lagura to drive your car into a wall. It just doesnt make sense.
:rofl:
message length

lcpljrm

04-11-2006, 06:31 AM

i think it would be reasonable to start from a stock vq35 and go from there over time.....from what i've been reading, people aren't getting much more than 300hp n/a. why? i know there's the capability for much, much more there, especially when you consider the kind of n/a power hondas make, and that is with horribly undersquare engines with longer strokes.

HaLo

04-11-2006, 07:17 AM

I have a friend that is building up a VQ30 for his race S13. Here is his website:
http://www.anothershade.com/projects.htm

Think about the weight balance of the V6 compared to a I6...

wootwoot

04-11-2006, 08:47 AM

If you were really wanting 400hp get the vk56. I think thats the engine code, engine out of the Armada and Titan. 5.6 liter truck engine with a good amount of tq and hp. Still a light motor because of it being open deck and all aluminum. Sounds like what you want though is basically a 350 but you want the DOHC part too.

lcpljrm

04-11-2006, 02:39 PM

i don't have my rulebook handy, but using a vq motor would keep me legal for SM2, right? if not, i would have to race in e-mod; wtf

HaLo

04-11-2006, 03:13 PM

Would be SM legal

snatch13

04-11-2006, 03:24 PM

Would be SM legal

Yup. I don't think the VQ is that bad of a swap. If you use the Maxima VQ35DE and 350Z tranny, this swap could be done for cheaper than a RB swap. Yea it would need a lot of custom parts, but if you have the resources, those parts can be made fairly cheaply. That is if you are satisfied with 265 hp n/a, which for me I would be. I'm not a HP freak.

S14DB

04-11-2006, 08:41 PM

I have a friend that is building up a VQ30 for his race S13. Here is his website:
http://www.anothershade.com/projects.htm

Think about the weight balance of the V6 compared to a I6...
well he kinda sux at html
http://www.anothershade.com/20063.asp

HaLo

04-11-2006, 09:07 PM

I suck even more..
here is the latest link:

http://www.anothershade.com/20063.htm

NemeGuero

04-12-2006, 11:06 AM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/tjomi/tsvq32-01.jpg
Think this one was around 360hp at crank. Not bad.
Think it was 3.2 litres. Sits in a R32 Skyline GTR

That's hella sexy.. I'd love a sound clip of that shit.

And I know why Luke thinks of VG's!! ;)

lcpljrm

04-12-2006, 12:43 PM

one of my concerns is keeping the car sm legal, and an ls1 would make that impossible...who knows, i'm going to do more research and if i think i can afford it, i'm going to try it

S14DB

04-12-2006, 04:40 PM

http://www.dazee.net/tempfiles/ztune.html

Var

04-12-2006, 05:06 PM

one of my concerns is keeping the car sm legal, and an ls1 would make that impossible...who knows, i'm going to do more research and if i think i can afford it, i'm going to try it

The LS1 would be 100% smog legal with all original smog equipment and OBDII. You can even get a smog legal cam, heads, headers, and a supercharger and have 600whp legally.

SoSideways

04-12-2006, 05:22 PM

The LS1 would be 100% smog legal with all original smog equipment and OBDII. You can even get a smog legal cam, heads, headers, and a supercharger and have 600whp legally.

But wouldn't it have to go into a GM car?

I thought it was written in the law books that, the only kind of swap you can swap into your car, is of a motor that was produced by the manufacturer of your chassis (in this case, a Nissan), and the motor has to be newer than the one that you pulled out (the VQ would be newer), and was SMOG legal and everything in the US of A (the VQ qualifies for that).

Even though the LS1 would be legal and still be making like 600hp, it's not produced by Nissan and thus cannot be "legally" swapped into the S-chassis.

S14DB

04-12-2006, 05:28 PM

The LS1 would be 100% smog legal with all original smog equipment and OBDII. You can even get a smog legal cam, heads, headers, and a supercharger and have 600whp legally.
He's talking about a SCCA racing class. Not Street legality.

Ricks15

04-12-2006, 05:39 PM

So for SCCA racing you have to have smog legal engines and OBDII equipment? WHY?

drift freaq

04-13-2006, 12:36 AM

So for SCCA racing you have to have smog legal engines and OBDII equipment? WHY?
No Rick, SM is a SCCA racing class it has nothing to do with smog legal engines, like S14DB said.

lcpljrm

04-13-2006, 02:25 AM

that z rac tune...wow...just wow. sounds amazing. idling so fucking high...

Var

04-13-2006, 02:27 AM

Sorry about the confusion guys..my fault

But wouldn't it have to go into a GM car?

I thought it was written in the law books that, the only kind of swap you can swap into your car, is of a motor that was produced by the manufacturer of your chassis (in this case, a Nissan), and the motor has to be newer than the one that you pulled out (the VQ would be newer), and was SMOG legal and everything in the US of A (the VQ qualifies for that).

Even though the LS1 would be legal and still be making like 600hp, it's not produced by Nissan and thus cannot be "legally" swapped into the S-chassis.

You can make an engine change as long as the engine in question is newer and has all the smog equipment on it. It doesn't have to be a nissan engine. Plus the LS1 is in the ULEV list which means it runs much cleaner than the KA so it shouldn't be a problem.

Broaner

04-13-2006, 10:10 AM

Var

04-13-2006, 12:45 PM

I can attest to the fact that driving any S chassis with a VQ w/ 400HP would be very crazy. I'm basically stock on the motor making roughly 220HP and the @ss kicks in third. Many people underestimate the simplicity of boosting these motors. Guys in the 4th gen Maxima run 13lbs on Vortech blowers all the time on bone stock internals. Doesn't put out 400HP but it comes close. Boost is so much cheaper to extract the potential of this over-engineered motor.

400whp is the about the number i'd be looking for. My s13 was making 215whp and it was super lame, could hardly spin the tires in 3rd around the big banking @ Altamont with 17 inch rims(not saying everyone wants to drift and i'm sure your motor would do a lot better). The acceleration was mehhh. It's all relative to what you're used to.

IMO perfect power would be 6:1 (curb weight: whp) so a 400whp should weigh around 2400 pounds, 500whp 3000 pounds, etc. The power isn't hard to control with good suspension and tires and not to mention driving skills. You should be used to you car sliding a lot if you wanna drive a car with that much power. My car slides around on the freeway when it's raining and i still drive with the T/C off all the time cause i can.

As far as the VQ being over-engineered..err. :rolleyes: NO

overengineered -> 2jzgte Rb26dett

blu808

04-13-2006, 03:10 PM

Vq = good motor but fragile.

Broaner

04-14-2006, 09:11 AM

When you got a six speed the stock VQ is beast. I'm aiming for 300WHP on a simple 10lbs pulley on the Vortech. Turbo VQ's can make serious power. In my previos post I was refering to SC's. I don't really like turbo power.

Both of you need to take a look at Maxima.org. VQ's are not fragile at all. Its the 35's that are pushing the limits of the rods. The VQ30 rods are very strong stock. In fact its always been my opinion that Nissan motors are generally beasts. I know of numerous occasions of people laying twice the stock power levels on bone stock motors. With careful tunning and correct monitoring of detonation the stock motor can run 500WHP. Later I will find posts showing the details of Hals rediculous 500+HP/600TQ dyno pull.

wootwoot

04-14-2006, 09:58 AM

Some guys run vq35 heads on vq30 blocks to lower compression and better flow, and with that done on stock bottom end they are doing 500-600whp. Play around on some Maxima forums. A member here from Louisiana has done that I think

lcpljrm

04-14-2006, 11:42 AM

i realize how much power i could make with a turbo or sc setup, but pay attention to the thread title. i am referring to naturally aspirated engines

Broaner

04-16-2006, 06:18 PM

Lots of people have done or are currently working on so called hybrid VQ's. The 35 heads have superior flow and detonation supression.

I plan on doing a hybrid setup myself in two years. I'm not sure of which route I'm going to take though. The most common setup is VQ30 rotating assembly with 35 block, cams and heads. This drops the compression of something around 9:1 but ups the displacment. I'm not sure on the #'s. I'm not too familiar with the other setups. I believe running a 30 block and rotating assembly ups the compression but keeps the displacement. When matched with 35 heads that becomes a real screamer. for NA. Still no where near the power you're looking for.

If your really serious about making big NA power you need to have at least $12K for the buildup alone. $6K+ for the ITB's + a hella lotta dough for beefy custom rods. The stroke of the VQ makes piston speed get kinda rediculous past 8K. High piston speed requires hella strong rods. Then nice cams(maybe custom). Emanage Ultimate. ARP fasteners all around. Titanium valves.

lcpljrm

04-17-2006, 01:14 PM

that's about what i had budgeted, though you won't see me spending $6k on an off the shelf ITB system. i will be making my own. Myplan was VQ30 rotating assemply in a 35 blocl. IIRC, the vq30 stroke is around 73mm. that's a pretty damn good stroke for high revving powerplants, about as short as you can find in most vehicles these days. only recent motors i know of with shorter strokes are RB20s. the stroke of the F22C1 is 90.7mm. that motor has the factory rev-limit at around 8200rpm. your piston speed there is 24 m/s. the vq30's piston speed doesn't reach 24m/s until 10,000RPM. so the dimensions are there. i could save money by going with a stock VQ30DET crank and rods, or at least the crank. piston will need to be custom with different(lower) piston pin location. more research to be done, but its definetly doable.

PoorMans180SX

10-02-2006, 08:07 PM

Sorry for resurrecting this kinda old thread, but this is the newest VQ thread, and I was wondering if there are any updates on any members who are doing this swap. It's going to take me a long time as a college student to do any swap in my S13, so I am really thinking about a VQ30 or 35.

Broaner, if you could send me parts lists, prices, swap info etc. that would be great. I looked all over your car domain site, engineswaptech.com, and freshalloy, and no one had definite parts requirements and/or prices. I got a semi-complete list off of engineswaptech.com, but nothing all-conclusive.

This looks like an amazing swap and maybe the future big power swap of the S-chassis if the above [by lcpljrm] is true.

Thanks,
~Andy