Hispanic Illegal Immigration into the US (PW)

[lowviscosity]

Refer to:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/25/thousands_across_us_demonstrate_against_illegal_im migrant_crackdown/
IF you don't now to much about what is going on but I have a rant...

Don't get me wrong I am hispanic, and I think LEGAL immigration is fair and should go un-touched but to protest about ILLEGAL immigration is retarded. I mean really how many americans get arrested for doing illegal things in our country? Cary a sack of weed down the street and I guaranteed you will be arrested but cross a countries border with no ID and then grab a fake ID and start working on someone else's land and not get charged for what you have done, with you knowing in full that it is/was an illegal action.

Go cry to your mom. I understand they do allow for cheap labor and so forth and so on. The fact is we were born here and to immigrate to the country without legal documentation is infact ILLEGAL. They are not refugee's nor are they in dier need. If they want a better life they are more than welcome to go through proper papers and agreements (so forth and so on) to get legalized in our country. Over 11+ million people have come over here illegally, and we have yet to do anything about it.

The guest worker program sounds good but I don't think they should beable to run around the country illegally...

Just wondering what you all think on this subject. I think the bills should be passed and illegal immigration have more of a punishment. Again this is not a racist issue its the fact that it is Illegal to do something. Let me go run into canada's border and run across it without any documentation see what happens to me.. i'm sure its inforced greatly. Sure we have enough room for people.... sorry just had to rant. Again my view is open to this subject.

[OptionZero]

Trying to give rights and protections to illegal immigrants is like trying to fix a leaky roof by putting buckets on the floor.

aix the naturalization process (less corruption) and domestic labor law (certified worker thingies) and immigration should be less of a problem.


Here's the paradox:
-It sounds great to have a "higher minimum wage"- afterall, it helps the lowest levels of society, right? help the poor guys out!

-Everyone wants lower prices and bitch about taxes and shit.

Well, gee...ya can't have both right? If you want to help the little guy out, u can't bitch about paying more for your shit. If you want cheaper shit, then don't bitch about the little people who don't get tons of free benefits

Kinda like how labor unions are pretty redundant and outdated these days or how the people who want universal healthcare but dont want to pay for it

Sadly, most citizens are both lazy and ignorant.

[downshift_sideways]

yea. this is a mojor thing not only in united states but worldwide. I was watching abcnews awhile ago, and in Paris they are having violent protesting. Its no crazy. This will affect all of us, in some way shape or form.

[exitspeed]

I think it's tarded that people that are here illeagally are complaining about their rights. FUCK YOUR RIGHTS! YOU HAVE NON! You came here under illegal cercumstances and expect rights? Next time they protest the police should just start arresting as many as possible and send them back to their country. I know there are millions, but you have to start somewere.

Man this whole thing makes me so angry I can't even express it through text or words!

[downshift_sideways]

i would calm down with that stuff exit speed.. Illegal Immigrants do help society. They basically help the "white man" get the things he want. I belive that mexicans do bust thier ass's landscaping,contruction,roofing, etc etc etc. they work for less money, and on top of that they do a good job. Maybe some immigrant built your house. what would you do? burn it down? i wish people would be happy considering the fact that they dont have to pay much to get shit done. and for people like exit speeed need to open thier eyes and realize things have changed within the last decade.

[Irukandji]

i wish people would be happy considering the fact that they dont have to pay much to get shit done. and for people like exit speeed need to open thier eyes and realize things have changed within the last decade.


You have to consider the negative effects of cheap labor. Who would you hire, an American landscaper who charges $100 an hour, or an illegal immigrant who charges $25 an hour and does a decent job?

Well even though cheap labor is more available, it takes business opportunities away from those who cannot work for a lower price. Bigger companies that deal with construction, landscaping etc now are only accepting cash because they end up losing money after taxes, just to compete with illegal immigrants. Well if its a cash transaction, there's no paper trail, and its considered black market economy because the transaction has no effect on the overall GDP. As a result, our economy suffers the consequences. There was a case where an 18 year old american couldn't get a job at a local McDonalds because he wasn't bilingual, and his inability to speak Spanish would impede their business. Now if an American can't get a job in his or her own country due to the fact that an illegal immigrant has taken it away, THAT is the problem.


Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with those who are looking for better opportunities, but I think when it gets to the point where another country is negatively affected, there should be some regulations.

[TheSquidd]

Well. Here's an opinion from someone who's right smack dab in the middle of it. My whole school was pretty much filled with the children of illegal immigrants, the streets are flooded with uninsured drivers, no one speaks english around here and I pretty much find it impossible to find any white people in my area.

Even then, I still think this is America, land of the free. We were founded on immigration. Our forefathers were immigrants. I am totally for immigration.

Put yourselves in their shoes, try living in the slums of Mexico with no way out, for DAMN sure you'd be thinking of a way across that border, illegal or not. It's only illegal because there is a law, not because it is wrong. You know a long long time ago, we used to have the belief that we were the downtrodden country where people could come to, to escape persecution and poverty and make a decent life of their own. Now, we think we're this perfect utopia and we don't want to share it with anyone. WtF?

There are problems with immigration, namely in the retarded socialism we have in this country, where we offer hand outs to everyone and tax the hell out of those of us with a damn job.

I believe this is where the problem really boils down, because there are some DAMN good workers that come across this border and do more for their community and workplace than any of us lazy Americans. But there are those that come across trying to get by for free. They get welfare and pan handle, have no respect for our cities and basically treat our state like a trash can. I think we need to focus more on not rewarding those lazy ones and making it easier on those that really want to work.

I dunno. I'm just some pinche weddo. :gives:

[TheSquidd]

You have to consider the negative effects of cheap labor.

*snip snip*


Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with those who are looking for better opportunities, but I think when it gets to the point where another country is negatively affected, there should be some regulations.

A. Hah, well okay a kid not getting a job at McDonald's , I mean, really, just go somewhere else and get a job.

B. It's called a free market, if you can't compete with how another company does business (immigrants), then maybe it's time you thought of rethinking your pricing structure. If people thought it was worth it to pay someone 100$ an hour to do some concrete laying or roof work, just because they're white, then they would do it. I don't see why just because someone offers up the same service at a reasonable price, they're wrong.

If you stand by this so strongly, and think it affects your economy so bad, pay that white guy 100$ an hour. Your not going to change anything by whining about it, this country runs on money. As cliche as it sounds, money talks. Whoever the people pay, is who is right.

So unless that company gives me a reason to pay them four times more than the immigrants, OTHER than them just being white, then forget it, I'll take the cheap labor. Perhaps a reach-around or a they install a free pool filled with beer?

If the immigrants weren't "illegal" they'd be citizens, thus taxed and contribute more to the economy. Making them illegal won't stop them from coming into the country, it just stops us from being able to keep track of them.

Once again, I'm just a dumb kid. This is only my opinion as I am no economist.

[OptionZero]

Making them illegal won't stop them from coming into the country, it just stops us from being able to keep track of them.
.

I'm not one to say we should build a wall btw us and mexico, nor do I think all illegal immigrants are evil, but...that above statement goes more to how the border control situation is poorly handled (corrupt and ineffective).

There SHOULD BE stronger control over who enters our borders, but there should also be a fair way to apply for and earn citizenship.

[RiversideS13]

Those illegal immgrants usually fall into the low income portion. Therefore, they are entitled to most of benefits such as medicaid and finicial aids. Some of them pay tax but that was very insignificant and they will get tax return anyway. In conclusion, they are draining our tax money.

also, they are illegal because they are not qualify to be here. there are legal ways which requires more qualifications and it will ensure they will make positive contribution to our society

[downshift_sideways]

Its simply "THE AMERICAN DREAM" to be able to come into this country on terms to better yourself and your life.

Iam mexican-american. and my family did come from mexico to this california, At the time they didnt have the paperwork to show. BUT they managed to convieve me throughout all these years. My Dad got sent back to mexico due to immigration forces. But i am an american. I have the paperwork to show that i was born here. So i strongly agree that illegals comming to U.S. and other countries to better themselfs.

n1smor i agree in what you are saying aswell.

but wheter you guys choose to belive it or not, immigrants come and work for less than the minimum wage. Yes, they get treated like dirt without benifits or medical. BUT they strive to live here, and they do a good job. So i dont understand why people would complain about them comming into out country. HELL some immigrants probally built your house, or in someway throughout time has helped either you or someone you know.

[exitspeed]

i would calm down with that stuff exit speed.. Illegal Immigrants do help society. They basically help the "white man" get the things he want. I belive that mexicans do bust thier ass's landscaping,contruction,roofing, etc etc etc. they work for less money, and on top of that they do a good job. Maybe some immigrant built your house. what would you do? burn it down? i wish people would be happy considering the fact that they dont have to pay much to get shit done. and for people like exit speeed need to open thier eyes and realize things have changed within the last decade.

That's BS if you ask me. All these jobs that are done by these people are PERFECTLY GOOD jobs for young people to have. America's young people are getting worse and worse when it comes to working and the illegal immigrants make it more difficult for a kid that does wanna bust his ass and get a job to go out and get one. So :blah: :blah: with that mess.


And still the bottom line is that their here illegally. BOTTOM LINE. You deserve no rights if you can't come into this country as a law abiding citizen.

[lowviscosity]

No it will not stop them but yet it will stop and make them think... it is too easy for them to get across right now... if they want it so bad make them work for it... but on a serious note I think security should atleast be beefed up. I think there should be enforement on the border. And further more I think if you did something illegal you should be prosecuted for it no matter what, its the only fair way to going about this. If they don't prosecute runners then why should there be people in jail at this moment?

Sure our economy is based on money, but our economy is also based on legallized work. I don't see any main stream crack houses. Why? because we bust anything that gets big. So why let illegal work slip through? A free market is right but if your competing in that market with illegal options then the company is not competing fairly. And again this is not a white-hispanic issue this is just an issue between illegal immigration.
If the immigrants weren't "illegal" they'd be citizens, thus taxed and contribute more to the economy. Making them illegal won't stop them from coming into the country, it just stops us from being able to keep track of them.

Yeah and if cocaine wasn't "illegal" it would be legal too? what is your point here? If smokin' the reefer wasn't "illegal" it would be legal, I don't see what your getting at with that?
And if we can't track them then they don't pay taxes each year. Which that means I should be getting around $5000 more each year because I pay all my taxes.

[mRclARK1]

I agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed, but I think alot of people are ignorant as to what alot (but not all) of these illegal immigrants are trying to get away from. Many of them come to get a good job that pays them enough to feed and shleter their family and themselves; something hard to get in alot of places in South America and Mexico. The fact is it's hard and VERY time and money consuming to go through an immigration process, and alot of people see illegal means as their only option.

I think what needs to be done is crack down on illegal immigrants, which will encourage use of the legal method. But don't just send illegals home with no help. Advise them on how they can come into the country legally, help them with the paperwork, ease the financial burden a bit, and try to cut down the waiting times.

Originally posted by: lowviscosity
Let me go run into canada's border and run across it without any documentation see what happens to me.. i'm sure its inforced greatly.

Having lived in both the US and Canada; I can tell you that's not true. The US-Canada border has stretches many miles long that are COMPLETELY unwatched by either country. My girlfriend (she's Canadian) was driving to a small town close to the border, she got lost and was pulled over by a state trooper for a bunrt out headlight. He noticed the Canadian license plate and asked where she was headed. She was almost 30 miles across the border and had never noticed she crossed it. He knew how to get to where she was going, gave her directions, and let her go with a laugh and a smile.

[lowviscosity]

Its simply "THE AMERICAN DREAM" to be able to come into this country on terms to better yourself and your life.

Iam mexican-american. and my family did come from mexico to this california, At the time they didnt have the paperwork to show. BUT they managed to convieve me throughout all these years. My Dad got sent back to mexico due to immigration forces. But i am an american. I have the paperwork to show that i was born here. So i strongly agree that illegals comming to U.S. and other countries to better themselfs.

n1smor i agree in what you are saying aswell.

but wheter you guys choose to belive it or not, immigrants come and work for less than the minimum wage. Yes, they get treated like dirt without benifits or medical. BUT they strive to live here, and they do a good job. So i dont understand why people would complain about them comming into out country. HELL some immigrants probally built your house, or in someway throughout time has helped either you or someone you know.

This is what I am except my parents parents did have papers and did cross legit.
Yes if you are born here you are considered legal, sure they give us cheap labor, sure its under the coat and no one knows or will know. But when will it stop is what the big question is here? Already a number from 11-20 million have entered the US how many more before we enforce the borders and laws of America?
Like someone stated above... thousands of insuranceless immigrants driving in cars, thousands or morre not paying taxes, yes they do qualify for well fair if they happen to fake their way through everything, in which yes its spending someones money. They are hard workers and they do work for less but how far is that going to go?

[lowviscosity]

Having lived in both the US and Canada; I can tell you that's not true. The US-Canada border has stretches many miles long that are COMPLETELY unwatched by either country. My girlfriend (she's Canadian) was driving to a small town close to the border, she got lost and was pulled over by a state trooper for a bunrt out headlight. He noticed the Canadian license plate and asked where she was headed. She was almost 30 miles across the border and had never noticed she crossed it. He knew how to get to where she was going, gave her directions, and let her go with a laugh and a smile.

Well I am just saying a country in general sorry I used a bad example... if you go to another country arrive on plain for a vacation they ask if you are their for work or pleasure... if you say work you must provide so much documentation stating why you are there and who you are working for on their soil.

Ha its cool to see this though I didn't think it would bring up much ... but yeah...

[downshift_sideways]

That's BS if you ask me. All these jobs that are done by these people are PERFECTLY GOOD jobs for young people to have. America's young people are getting worse and worse when it comes to working and the illegal immigrants make it more difficult for a kid that does wanna bust his ass and get a job to go out and get one. So :blah: :blah: with that mess.


And still the bottom line is that their here illegally. BOTTOM LINE. You deserve no rights if you can't come into this country as a law abiding citizen.

well its not my fault that americans wanna sit on thier lazy ass and not work. These people are starving for work, they show that they are commited to working hard. maybe if some americans werent so lazy and would have passion to work , then they would get jobs themselfs.

[lowviscosity]

well its not my fault that americans wanna sit on thier lazy ass and not work. These people are starving for work, they show that they are commited to working hard. maybe if some americans werent so lazy and would have passion to work , then they would get jobs themselfs.
This is bullshit... I know many of my friends and so on that are white or Full AMerican that bust their ass laying bricks, foundations, and so on. I busted my ass at Burger King also mowing lawns and so forth when I was younger just for some extra cash. This is pushing younger Americans out of the way for an older non citizen. You see who works at every McDonalds in the country now.... look at fast food resteraunts atleats 10 yrs back and tell me it was the same. I used to see kids working there day in and out but hardly anymore. But like I said we have tons of guys willing to do the work infact I work with many electricians. I think we should start caring for our own before we give our money to an Illegal Immigrant. I have nothing against them but like stated above if I did anything illegal I would be arrested or ticketed... Illegal is Bottom Line.

[chr0nik_sm0k3]

well its not my fault that americans wanna sit on thier lazy ass and not work. These people are starving for work, they show that they are commited to working hard. maybe if some americans werent so lazy and would have passion to work , then they would get jobs themselfs.


so true. if youre going to complaining about illegals taking the jobs why dont you get off your ass and prove you can work just as hard.

[downshift_sideways]

if you read i was quouting exit speed. he is being very self minded.
Yes i understand jobs are taking up, but these immigrants are so motivated to work, for less than minumum.

Tell me this. If you owned a company and you wanted your company to rocket and you want your supply and demand to increase.

Would you A.
Hire 1 skilled worker

or hire 3 good workers.

the skilled worker would get more pay and benifits.

but the less skilled worker would get smaller pay and less benifits.

this is what companys are doing. its for them to get profit, and to save thier taxes. i dont see why this is wrong? its like budgeting in a way.

would you want those stock alloys? or some 5zigen rims?
they both get you around right? so why not roll with the alloys to save you some money...lols..( i know this is a wack example. but flame me for it!! )

[exitspeed]

if you read i was quouting exit speed. he is being very self minded.



I am and have no problem admitting it on this issue. I am usually very open minded when it comes to alotta issues but this the whole I want rights when i'm here illegally thing just drives me nuts. It's a complete contradiction.

NOW if you are here legally, by ALL MEANS get a job work your ass off and live the American dream. Now I don't think that is as self minded as you think.

[downshift_sideways]

The thing is, they are not getting rights, and they are not demanding rights. There is a work union over by my house, and their are always a group of hispanics waiting to work. I dont see them or anyone in that matter complaning about rights. I think they are fine with what they get.

who is demanding rights?

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: lowviscosity
Well I am just saying a country in general sorry I used a bad example... if you go to another country arrive on plain for a vacation they ask if you are their for work or pleasure... if you say work you must provide so much documentation stating why you are there and who you are working for on their soil.

Ha its cool to see this though I didn't think it would bring up much ... but yeah...

I'm sure that if one of the two countries (Canada or the US) was significantly poorer or had alot lower standard of living than the other, the lax security would not exist. That's what the problem is behind Hispanic illegal immigration, people are trying to come to the US to find work, oppurtunities, and a better life and are willing to come illegally to obtain it. In other words they're desperate.

Originally posted by: n1sm0r
There was a case where an 18 year old american couldn't get a job at a local McDonalds because he wasn't bilingual, and his inability to speak Spanish would impede their business. Now if an American can't get a job in his or her own country due to the fact that an illegal immigrant has taken it away, THAT is the problem.

I completely agree with that. When it begins to affect citizens' attempts to obtain employment, you have a serious problem that needs fixing. Also, when immigrants come to a new country...the immigrant is responsible to learn the language, if it's different, not expect service, in all areas, in his or her native language. While I was in Ecuador and Colombia for awhile...I learned and conversed in Spanish, I didn't expect people to go out of their way to speak to me in English.

[exitspeed]

The thing is, they are not getting rights, and they are not demanding rights. There is a work union over by my house, and their are always a group of hispanics waiting to work. I dont see them or anyone in that matter complaning about rights. I think they are fine with what they get.

who is demanding rights?

that is what all the marching is about...their rights.:smash:

[bik]

as a mexican u guys have to think illegan imigrants never do it cause wanna take advantage of somebody or something, is really pleaople than are starving to dead cause is not jobs here O_o

mostly u can get a job but u dont get enougth money to feed yout family O_o

i live in mexico BTW ¬_¬

[TheWolf]

why not instead of spending hours and hours and thousands and thousands of dollars of tax money trying to figure out how to make immigrants legal or illegal. then enforcing borders and building walls... how about we figure out how to make mexico not suck so much. That should solve the problem. I mean if china can go from red commie backwoods idigent worker to booming economy in 10 years... mexico's got alot going for it...

Then only canada would be left to suck... but they are born that way and I have no problem shooting canadians at the border :)

[raz0rbladez909]

I completely agree with that. When it begins to affect citizens' attempts to obtain employment, you have a serious problem that needs fixing. Also, when immigrants come to a new country...the immigrant is responsible to learn the language, if it's different, not expect service, in all areas, in his or her native language. While I was in Ecuador and Colombia for awhile...I learned and conversed in Spanish, I didn't expect people to go out of their way to speak to me in English.


i agree as we'll, and yes i am of hispanic and german descent too so don't try to say its about being racist. it took me a good 3 months after high school of job searching before i even was considered for a job, and in getting that job the only way i got in was because i knew someone in the system. This setting up requirements for people to have to learn a foreign language to get a job is bullshit, you come to America learn to speak english, i know for damn sure if i went to mexico or anywhere else down south of the border i wouldnt expect people to know english you learn to speak the language where you live. i think this whole protest has turned into a big race issue which everybody likes to raise up, the fact of the matter it is for all immigrants trying to enter America illegally, my grandparents on both sides went through the steps to become American citizens LEGALLY and i think that everybody else should do the same, to say they have the right to be here without going through the same process as others is downright blasphemy and it is only a personal view that is cluttering your vision into saying so. The fact of the matter is it effects hispanics the most because they have the most amount of people entering the country, and i can bet the people that were protesting aren't the people that did it the legal way.

[A Spec Products]

Wow, lots of reading.

I skimmed what was above, but after seeing the student walk out at schools around Los Angeles, I was disappointed that its having an impact like that.

While I'm not well enough informed to tell if the walk out was justified, I don't think it was reason enough for kids to leave school over it. I mean the kids were walking on the FREEWAYS for god sakes. I think it's great that the kids take a stand and unite together, but the walk out yesterday was not the best way to reflect well.

And yes, my grandparents went through the legit immigration process, so do I think everyone else should do the same? Yes, of course. Will it ever actually happen? No way.

I personally am wary of the impact that the guest worker idea will have on the future of America.

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: TheWolf
Then only canada would be left to suck... but they are born that way and I have no problem shooting canadians at the border

I'm Canadian...and proud of it. I'm also American...and proud of it.

If it's just a joke then ignore this; but I don't see how you can say Canada sucks considering it is almost identical to America. I've lived in both...there is VERY little difference culturally, morally, economically, traditionally and pretty much any other way. Saying a whole nation "sucks" and it's people are "born that way" is just plain ignorant. I could say more but I'll leave it at that.

Also, contrary to populat belief...there are ALOT of guns in Canada. And most Canadians I know (myself included) are dangerously good shots. :D
So good luck to you shooting Canadians at the border...If they shoot back, I don't think you'll last to long. :wavey:

[yudalicious]

It's a tough issue, but I think if you illegally cross the border then you probably shouldn't expect many rights. Keep in mind mexican people aren't the only people in the world starving, mexico just happens to share a very big border with the us. It is better to get to the root of the problem (fix the situation in mexico) than to provide a band aid solution (laws against illegal immigrants).

[Ricks15]

Like "Vicente Fox" said (the president of mexico) Mexicans do the jobs that not even the blacks would do. I mean do any of you picture white people picking fruits and produce in the hot sun for eight hours? This damn country is still very racial over people who look different, this is america this country is based upon many different races that build up this great country. If that bullshit law does go through the economy of this country will drop so fast that there will probably be another stock market crash becasuse of that new law. Mexicans are some of the most hard working people you will ever meet in you're entire life and this country doesnt see that.

[yudalicious]

this is america this country is based upon many different races that build up this great country.
yea, races of people that came over legally. there's plenty of people in asia and africa that are starving too, I say we smuggle every starving person in the world over here and protest their rights as illegal immigrants as well.

[lowviscosity]

yea, races of people that came over legally. there's plenty of people in asia and africa that are starving too, I say we smuggle every starving person in the world over here and protest their rights as illegal immigrants as well.

Yeah the fact of the matter is that its possible to legally come over here and many people do... we don't need to sit here and baby everyone that crosses are border its like a reward to them. Rights for an illegal citizen thats a oxy moron in itself (excuse my spelling). There can't be rights for something illegal... period.

[DriftKouki]

It's a tough issue, but I think if you illegally cross the border then you probably shouldn't expect many rights. Keep in mind mexican people aren't the only people in the world starving, mexico just happens to share a very big border with the us. It is better to get to the root of the problem (fix the situation in mexico) than to provide a band aid solution (laws against illegal immigrants).
Mexico has been plagued with many corrupt presidents who have stolen from the Mexican people and left Mexico in the state it is in. There are some good honest people in the government trying to fix this, for example Vicente Fox, but the immense drug cartel inffluence is very strong. Both of my parents came to this country illegally to pursue a better life. They have worked hard to provide for my sisters and I. They are now legal citizens. They pay their taxes and are good law abiding citizens.This country was built on immigration and just because the ones already here have it good it doesnt mean that we shouldnt let other people have the opportunity too. Viva La Raza!

[S13 Charlie]

Well, I feel like adding my two cents (or centavos, as it were..) After reading every post in this thread, I think there are quite a few generalizations flying around, the main one being this:

white Americans = lazy and not hard working
Mexicans = extremely hard working

I disagree with both of these sentiments, because just as there are hard-working, driven American citizens, there are also lazy mexicans. This is not the point though. I admit, I haven't read about the demonstrations, nor have I even watched the news lately, so maybe I'm also ignorant. The truth of the matter is that the U.S. should get tougher on illegal immigration. I mean, shit, the feds could just drive to any home depot in the country and arrest anywhere from 5-50 people and put them on a bus. Hell, driving on Gladstone St. in Irwindale there are freakin' signs that let you know a "Day Laborer Site" is coming up. I'd bet dollars to donuts that 99% of the people there are illegally in this country. Well, I lost my train of thought, I should get back to work anyway.

-C

for what it's worth, I am also Hispanic, i.e. of German, English, Irish and Guatemalan descent.

[fcdrifer17]

i agree with ricks15... if most illigal immigrants did get sent back from where they came from, our econamy would be badly damaged.. and if this law DOES pass... all hell will break loose in L.A... and major citys populated by hispanics.

[projekt_s13]

I was just talking about this with one of my friends, she wanted me to go and protest. Im like "Hell no, Im legal, my parents are legal, So i have no reason to go protest." Why should I protest against a bill that is just enforcing the law? It like me stealing a car, then protesting that its rightfully mine and that i have the right to keep it.

Im full blooded mexican by the way.

[TheSquidd]

SCISSORS!*
I disagree with both of these sentiments, because just as there are hard-working, driven American citizens, there are also lazy mexicans. *SNIPPY SNIP!*


The problem being is, we give welfare and aid to those lazy ones from both races. They are the true drain on our economy. We support their lack of dedication.

And to half the posts made so far, it seems a lot of you are EXTREMELY racist and have little to no knowledge of what you're speaking about. Call me a Libertarian, I think I'm going that way anyway, but I believe in a FREE MARKET. Some politicians will tell you we already have one, but it's laws like this that are destroying what little left we have of a free market system.

Eventually you conservatives will realize that making all these laws is simply taking away all our freedoms and making it hard on everyone. If a business wants to hire workers that are dedicated and want to work for less than you, they have every right to in a free market system. You don't have to give them your business, tell your friends, don't shop there, they have illegal immigrants behind the counter. If it's SO wrong, then it will lose business, but IT ISN'T. That's why business that use immigrants don't fail, and become more numerous every year, they are more efficient and have less overhead.

How does filling out some papers make you a hard worker? What makes someone who goes through the immigration process better than one that doesn't? They have more time? More money? It's retarded. If you want to work, come the hell on over, there's tons of jobs out here you can fill. I have NEVER had a hard time finding a job, no one has "stolen" my job because they're illegal immigrants. That's because I worked my ass off honing a set of skills MYSELF and made MYSELF marketable.

Ridiculous, half you people have no experience in the subject. Not that I do, but I deal with illegal immigrants on a daily basis, most of them are down to earth awesome guys just trying to make a buck. Most of them are trying to become legal immigrants, but just could not live in Mexico any longer. Call it the Hypocratic oath, but I just can't turn away someone who's in trouble, starving or worse.



Oh and cocaine, and all drugs, should be legal. That's just bullshit, no government should control what I want to do to my body. (I don't do drugs, at all, but I don't feel that those that do should be put in prison for their victimless "crime".) The only reason it's illegal is because it can't be taxed. People can grow it themselves (marijuana) and the government doesn't get a dime. Caffine, alcohol, nicotine are all legal, because you can't just grow that shit (well okay you can brew alcohol but it sucks.), it requires going to a store, which requires you to pay a tax.

P.S. I'm a middle class white guy. My family is German/European, I have no racial ties to Mexicans, and I don't care. They're people too.

But I could be wrong, no one has provided a very solid argument so far otherwise.

[downshift_sideways]

I was just talking about this with one of my friends, she wanted me to go and protest. Im like "Hell no, Im legal, my parents are legal, So i have no reason to go protest." Why should I protest against a bill that is just enforcing the law? It like me stealing a car, then protesting that its rightfully mine and that i have the right to keep it.

Im full blooded mexican by the way.

These laws will affect everyone in this world some way or another. This law also lowers the minimum wage bar. So if you want a job you start more lower.
In Paris,London they are protesting because if you are under the age of 26 your employer can fire you without a cause. There is a lot that is happening in the world. and today is my day off of work, my car is in the shop, so all i'm doing is watching t.v. :)

[Ricks15]

Dude if you Mexican then why dont you give a rat's butthole about you're own Paisa's-you're people.

[theicecreamdan]

Like "Vicente Fox" said (the president of mexico) Mexicans do the jobs that not even the blacks would do. I mean do any of you picture white people picking fruits and produce in the hot sun for eight hours? This damn country is still very racial over people who look different, this is america this country is based upon many different races that build up this great country. If that bullshit law does go through the economy of this country will drop so fast that there will probably be another stock market crash becasuse of that new law. Mexicans are some of the most hard working people you will ever meet in you're entire life and this country doesnt see that.

you complain about the US being a racist country, and then claim that all mexicans are the hardest workers ever. I know hardworking mexicans and I know some lazy ass mexicans. Being mexican does not mean you work hard and deserve a job picking fruit. The point of the conversation is that they need to go about getting citizenship legally, instead of demanding it free and clear they should do something about asking to make the whole process easier.

and to the person saying that kids need to not be lazy. Working costs money, there is a point where it becomes too expensive to work a shit job for the short hours that you can work and still do homework and have free-time. When you have huge groups of people that can afford to work for nothing then these kids have no reason to get a job, why should we go get a job when we will be turned down most places we want to apply because some guy is willing to work for shit.

I do have a job and I bust my ass at work every day. And I have busted my ass doing "mexican" work before too, if you think Vicente Fox has made any point by saying that illegals do work blacks wouldn't even do... wtf? what does he know about what black people would, or wouldnt do? I've had black gardeners and mexican construction and even hired people from a drug rehab program near our property. This isn't a race issue, its a nationality issue.

BTW the hardest workers we have ever hired to do some pretty lame jobs were the people that come from the drug rehab place, If you need to get some work done on or around your house and you want to hire americans that need the money just as bad as a lot of these illegal immigrants find out about where you can get cheap american labor in your area. Its there but they don't all hang out in front of home depot waiting for work.

[downshift_sideways]

you complain about the US being a racist country, and then claim that all mexicans are the hardest workers ever. I know hardworking mexicans and I know some lazy ass mexicans. Being mexican does not mean you work hard and deserve a job picking fruit. The point of the conversation is that they need to go about getting citizenship legally, instead of demanding it free and clear they should do something about asking to make the whole process easier.

and to the person saying that kids need to not be lazy. Working costs money, there is a point where it becomes too expensive to work a shit job for the short hours that you can work and still do homework and have free-time. When you have huge groups of people that can afford to work for nothing then these kids have no reason to get a job, why should we go get a job when we will be turned down most places we want to apply because some guy is willing to work for shit.

I do have a job and I bust my ass at work every day. And I have busted my ass doing "mexican" work before too, if you think Vicente Fox has made any point by saying that illegals do work blacks wouldn't even do... wtf? what does he know about what black people would, or wouldnt do? I've had black gardeners and mexican construction and even hired people from a drug rehab program near our property. This isn't a race issue, its a nationality issue.

BTW the hardest workers we have ever hired to do some pretty lame jobs were the people that come from the drug rehab place, If you need to get some work done on or around your house and you want to hire americans that need the money just as bad as a lot of these illegal immigrants find out about where you can get cheap american labor in your area. Its there but they don't all hang out in front of home depot waiting for work.

GET HER DONE!! GET HIM E THUG!! WHIP OUT THAT KNIFE AND SLASH AND DASH RIP ANOTHER HOLE IN HIS a$$ !!!:axe:

[theicecreamdan]

TheOh and cocaine, and all drugs, should be legal. That's just bullshit, no government should control what I want to do to my body. (I don't do drugs, at all, but I don't feel that those that do should be put in prison for their victimless "crime".) The only reason it's illegal is because it can't be taxed. People can grow it themselves (marijuana) and the government doesn't get a dime. Caffine, alcohol, nicotine are all legal, because you can't just grow that shit (well okay you can brew alcohol but it sucks.), it requires going to a store, which requires you to pay a tax.

.

OT, but that's a very selfish comment, what you do to your own body has affects on a lot more than just you, if people could make rational decisions to not go rob banks and stab and rape then maybe drugs wouldn't be such a huge issue. I do believe that some drugs are made out to be a lot worse than they are, but if you just let people do whatever they want to themselves there is a point where it hurts everybody.

and BTW I like homebrewed beer
I havent looked into it, but Im pretty sure its not that hard to grow your own tobacco, and I'm pretty sure caffeine is found in stuff you can make yourself.

[exitspeed]

The problem being is, we give welfare and aid to those lazy ones from both races. They are the true drain on our economy. We support their lack of dedication.

And to half the posts made so far, it seems a lot of you are EXTREMELY racist and have little to no knowledge of what you're speaking about. Call me a Libertarian, I think I'm going that way anyway, but I believe in a FREE MARKET. Some politicians will tell you we already have one, but it's laws like this that are destroying what little left we have of a free market system.

Eventually you conservatives will realize that making all these laws is simply taking away all our freedoms and making it hard on everyone. If a business wants to hire workers that are dedicated and want to work for less than you, they have every right to in a free market system. You don't have to give them your business, tell your friends, don't shop there, they have illegal immigrants behind the counter. If it's SO wrong, then it will lose business, but IT ISN'T. That's why business that use immigrants don't fail, and become more numerous every year, they are more efficient and have less overhead.

How does filling out some papers make you a hard worker? What makes someone who goes through the immigration process better than one that doesn't? They have more time? More money? It's retarded. If you want to work, come the hell on over, there's tons of jobs out here you can fill. I have NEVER had a hard time finding a job, no one has "stolen" my job because they're illegal immigrants. That's because I worked my ass off honing a set of skills MYSELF and made MYSELF marketable.

Ridiculous, half you people have no experience in the subject. Not that I do, but I deal with illegal immigrants on a daily basis, most of them are down to earth awesome guys just trying to make a buck. Most of them are trying to become legal immigrants, but just could not live in Mexico any longer. Call it the Hypocratic oath, but I just can't turn away someone who's in trouble, starving or worse.



Oh and cocaine, and all drugs, should be legal. That's just bullshit, no government should control what I want to do to my body. (I don't do drugs, at all, but I don't feel that those that do should be put in prison for their victimless "crime".) The only reason it's illegal is because it can't be taxed. People can grow it themselves (marijuana) and the government doesn't get a dime. Caffine, alcohol, nicotine are all legal, because you can't just grow that shit (well okay you can brew alcohol but it sucks.), it requires going to a store, which requires you to pay a tax.

P.S. I'm a middle class white guy. My family is German/European, I have no racial ties to Mexicans, and I don't care. They're people too.

But I could be wrong, no one has provided a very solid argument so far otherwise.

I don't think anyone here is arguing the fact that they shouldn't be allowed to come over here and work. In fact THEY ARE given that allowance. What people are upset about is that people that have came here under illegal pretences are marching and protesting. You don't deserve that right if you could not do what it takes to come here legally.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRANT WORKERS. Is is fair to the legal immigrants that took the time to become a citizen?

[theicecreamdan]

I disagree with both of these sentiments, because just as there are hard- I mean, shit, the feds could just drive to any home depot in the country and arrest anywhere from 5-50 people and put them on a bus. .


Actually they can't, border patrol and El Cajon police had a big thing over at the home depot next to my work. Alot of illegals got taken away, and some judge said that they couldn't be arrested. The best they can do in front of home depot is give tickets to the people that don't have their IDs, or something along those lines, but the important part of the story is that they couldn't just be arrested... for breaking the law.

[theicecreamdan]

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRANT WORKERS. Is is fair to the legal immigrants that took the time to become a citizen?


No its not and most of the people that I know that immigrated legally get pretty pissed off about illegals.

[MEisGQ]

errrr... whats with this hispanic BS? thats like saying im oriental... its derogatory to the people you're trying to address. I just want to point out that this 'immigration bill' is completely racist. these bozos in congress are just trying to cover their asses because it would be racist to call it a 'mexican bill' or mexican exclusion act - refer to chinese exclusion act - sad to say it, but America is and has always been a racist country. and to people sayin that we should care about our own before we take care of others? what do you care about me for? I don't care about you. I pay my taxes and I'd gladly pay more if it would help another person trying to escape the dire conditions in their country. lets say they do succeed to get all the illegals out... how much is that gonna affect your taxes? it'll probably remain the same and you'll be whining about some other issue that you don't agree with.

[dannyboi]

It's a tough issue, but I think if you illegally cross the border then you probably shouldn't expect many rights. Keep in mind mexican people aren't the only people in the world starving, mexico just happens to share a very big border with the us. It is better to get to the root of the problem (fix the situation in mexico) than to provide a band aid solution (laws against illegal immigrants).

+1

As for my opinion on this... let's just say the last time i posted in a thread about illegal mexicans, I was pinked.

I'll just say that i don't care about immigrant workers... so long they do it legally. I am pissed for people such as my parents whom took years to get through all the legal mumbo jumbo to become a LEGAL American citizen and these people at the border can enter illegally in a day.

Try to jump the line at the DMV... you'll get your teeth kicked in.

[4thHorse]

Well I'm about 50/50 on the issue. I have lived in San Jose, CA for my whole life and this is a big issue here. When I was in high school prop 187 was pass in the state and made a hugh mess of things. For those who don't know what prop 187 was here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_187 For a quick run down No social services, heath care, or education for illegal aliens. The good thing it was killed in court after a few years. It made anyone that worked for the state imagration worker. If you tought some one was illegal they can push for proof. I remember my history teacher got in a fight with the school principal about this issue then told the principal that all the students that would come from him would be white, because in his eye they were all illegals from Canada. Back to my thought that hasn't come up yet. Why is everyone talking about Mexicans and not any other race. I know many asians that are here illeaglly. Growing up I knew many asian families that had everyone living their, aunts, uncles, you name it. What bugged me about this was that they were living off wellfare. They would all buy a house cram everyone in their, pay for everything with wellfare/unemployment checks from everyone in the house, after a few years take a loan out from their house to buy another one, wash rinse repeat. How can you tell me thats fair. At the same time more then 50% of the janitorial service disappeared from my work because the company wanted better proof of leagality. That is very messed up IMO. These are just people trying to get by right, their not scamming the system right?

This is a bigger issue then white peole are lazy.

[infinitexsound]

its funny to me that this topic is always brought up all the time... and everyone is quick to judge or defend his or her own.... honestly... just fucken work, pay ur bills, pay ur taxes and dont be a prick to society is all i care about.. mexican/asian/black or white.. doesnt matter to me.... just handle ur business and deal with it..

[SilviaSpec]

I'm moving to San Antonio, TX in October and I will be knee deep in the bean soup. Those little bastards know damn well what they are doing when they illegally sneak into what I consider "my" country. I can say it's mine because i'm in the military and have been serving this country for 13 years. For them to cross the border and come here and screw up the economy by taking jobs away from those that are legally here is BS. The one thing that pisses me off the most about the whole ordeal is the fact that they can have the half-million bean march in L.A. and wave the "mexican" flag in our United States. I live in MS right now and there are so many of them here just hanging outside the stores and whatnot waiting for a handout. And another thing, they get free medical care whereas with me being in the military who is supposed to get free medical benefits but still have to pay for it at some point. They should have dropped a bomb in L.A. the other day, at least we would have knocked a half-mil of em off. Fill the Rio Grande with Pirahnas, lace the desert with every poisonous snake known to man. My buddy and I are thinking of starting our own business called "Tex-Mex Roundup". It's gonna be a privateer illegal extermination service. We'll tell them that we have an orange to be picked or a roof to be shingled and truck their asses back to "Mehico" in the back of a non air-conditioned semi truck. Let's see how many of them "sneak" in then!

[4thHorse]

/\/\Wow, and it's your first post. Just to inject some humor

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2677619?htv=12

And before anyone starts IT"S NOT REAL!

[theicecreamdan]

I'm moving to San Antonio, TX in October and I will be knee deep in the bean soup. Those little bastards know damn well what they are doing when they illegally sneak into what I consider "my" country. I can say it's mine because i'm in the military and have been serving this country for 13 years. For them to cross the border and come here and screw up the economy by taking jobs away from those that are legally here is BS. The one thing that pisses me off the most about the whole ordeal is the fact that they can have the half-million bean march in L.A. and wave the "mexican" flag in our United States. I live in MS right now and there are so many of them here just hanging outside the stores and whatnot waiting for a handout. And another thing, they get free medical care whereas with me being in the military who is supposed to get free medical benefits but still have to pay for it at some point. They should have dropped a bomb in L.A. the other day, at least we would have knocked a half-mil of em off. Fill the Rio Grande with Pirahnas, lace the desert with every poisonous snake known to man. My buddy and I are thinking of starting our own business called "Tex-Mex Roundup". It's gonna be a privateer illegal extermination service. We'll tell them that we have an orange to be picked or a roof to be shingled and truck their asses back to "Mehico" in the back of a non air-conditioned semi truck. Let's see how many of them "sneak" in then!

a little harsh there, bombing them wouldn't solve anything.

[HootAuto]

I didn't feel like reading all the comments, but basically this is a pissing match...

Let me just put a few facts down about illegal immigrants:

1)The reason they work for so cheap is because they don't live like most Americans, they live with their entire family. This doesn't just go for latin americans, but asian and middle eastern americans as well. This way they can all put down a small share of rent, bills, etc. and still survive.

2)Exitspeed is right, if you come here illegally you should be treated like a criminal. BOTTOM LINE! Do the paper work, just get a green card, it's not as difficult as it seems. I have a friend who is Canadian, it took them a few months to get their green card...I've waited longer for a SS Card.

3)Immigrants do help the economy, but come in LEGALLY!! See statement above.

4)To what yudalicious said...we cannot go around the world and make everyone better....do you want all of your money going towards helping everyone else!? How about this.....FIX OUR OWN COUNTRY FIRST!!!! Keeping illegal immigrants out is the BEST idea!! We have enough problems and debt as it is....so now we're gonna go around and fix EVERY broke ass country in the world?? I don't think so.....

BTW, this doesn't affect too much right now, but in 20 years at this rate.....better learn spanish, every job will require it...just some speculation, but doesn't sound unfounded considering some of the shopping centers around my neighborhood have spanish signs with english below it.

[Ricks15]

Originally Posted by SilviaSpec
I'm moving to San Antonio, TX in October and I will be knee deep in the bean soup. Those little bastards know damn well what they are doing when they illegally sneak into what I consider "my" country. I can say it's mine because i'm in the military and have been serving this country for 13 years. For them to cross the border and come here and screw up the economy by taking jobs away from those that are legally here is BS. The one thing that pisses me off the most about the whole ordeal is the fact that they can have the half-million bean march in L.A. and wave the "mexican" flag in our United States. I live in MS right now and there are so many of them here just hanging outside the stores and whatnot waiting for a handout. And another thing, they get free medical care whereas with me being in the military who is supposed to get free medical benefits but still have to pay for it at some point. They should have dropped a bomb in L.A. the other day, at least we would have knocked a half-mil of em off. Fill the Rio Grande with Pirahnas, lace the desert with every poisonous snake known to man. My buddy and I are thinking of starting our own business called "Tex-Mex Roundup". It's gonna be a privateer illegal extermination service. We'll tell them that we have an orange to be picked or a roof to be shingled and truck their asses back to "Mehico" in the back of a non air-conditioned semi truck. Let's see how many of them "sneak" in then!

You god damn raceist mother fucking cock sucker you're turning this thread into a verbal war with you're shit. Shut the fuck up before you piss anyone else up with you're bull shit, You got alot of balls writing that shit up on here asswipe come over to my hood and tell that to someone and gurantee they will put a cap on you're retarded ass bitch.

[BaliLover]

There were 500,000 people protesting In LA the other day. They are claiming they snuck into our country because they wanted a better life. So why the hell didn't these 500,000 people, plus the other 10.5 million that are here illegally, hold these protests in their OWN country to improve it, rather than here to bring our country down.

And yes, someone who does the required paperwork should get preferential treatment when it comes to jobs because they KNOW HOW TO FOLLOW THE RULES. An illegal, even an honest hard working one, has already shown that he will break the rules and commit a crime whenever it benefits him/her.

And for all you idiots that keep saying the US would be lost without illegals, the US was more stable 60 years ago BEFORE the illegal plauge. Maybe many of you have never been around towns that had very few illegals and have never seen old white farmers working their land in the hot sun. Never seen white families doing their own labor. Heck, I'm sure there are some of you that have never even seen a white lawn crew. They exist, and they exist in large numbers. I don't have a maid. I don't know anyone that does have a maid. I don't know anyone that has a live in pool boy or lawn boy, or whatever. I have to do all these chores/jobs myself, as do many millions of other people. If the illegals leave/eject/deport/encarcerate the many millions of us will continue to do what we've done for 230 years in this country.

[hitman]

The problem being is, we give welfare and aid to those lazy ones from both races. They are the true drain on our economy. We support their lack of dedication.

And to half the posts made so far, it seems a lot of you are EXTREMELY racist and have little to no knowledge of what you're speaking about. Call me a Libertarian, I think I'm going that way anyway, but I believe in a FREE MARKET. Some politicians will tell you we already have one, but it's laws like this that are destroying what little left we have of a free market system.

Eventually you conservatives will realize that making all these laws is simply taking away all our freedoms and making it hard on everyone. If a business wants to hire workers that are dedicated and want to work for less than you, they have every right to in a free market system. You don't have to give them your business, tell your friends, don't shop there, they have illegal immigrants behind the counter. If it's SO wrong, then it will lose business, but IT ISN'T. That's why business that use immigrants don't fail, and become more numerous every year, they are more efficient and have less overhead.

How does filling out some papers make you a hard worker? What makes someone who goes through the immigration process better than one that doesn't? They have more time? More money? It's retarded. If you want to work, come the hell on over, there's tons of jobs out here you can fill. I have NEVER had a hard time finding a job, no one has "stolen" my job because they're illegal immigrants. That's because I worked my ass off honing a set of skills MYSELF and made MYSELF marketable.

Ridiculous, half you people have no experience in the subject. Not that I do, but I deal with illegal immigrants on a daily basis, most of them are down to earth awesome guys just trying to make a buck. Most of them are trying to become legal immigrants, but just could not live in Mexico any longer. Call it the Hypocratic oath, but I just can't turn away someone who's in trouble, starving or worse.



Oh and cocaine, and all drugs, should be legal. That's just bullshit, no government should control what I want to do to my body. (I don't do drugs, at all, but I don't feel that those that do should be put in prison for their victimless "crime".) The only reason it's illegal is because it can't be taxed. People can grow it themselves (marijuana) and the government doesn't get a dime. Caffine, alcohol, nicotine are all legal, because you can't just grow that shit (well okay you can brew alcohol but it sucks.), it requires going to a store, which requires you to pay a tax.

P.S. I'm a middle class white guy. My family is German/European, I have no racial ties to Mexicans, and I don't care. They're people too.

But I could be wrong, no one has provided a very solid argument so far otherwise.


no!!!1
the illegals are GOOD for the economy, sure this is controversial but imo we nNEED these illegals to come do jobs that most people wouldnt do, and do them for wages other people wouldnt do.
sure we pay them here with us currency, then they take that money send it back to mexico (assuming in this case the illegals are mexican) and give it to their families to survive, sure this isnt the best for our economy but i beleive it does not outweight the benefits we get from their work.
also to a small extent the illegals sending money back to their country might not be so terrible as it keeps the money supply lower in a sense, and therefore keeping down inflation.

but ya some hospitals have closed from helping too many illegals and getting large deficits and having to close.

[hitman]

There were 500,000 people protesting In LA the other day. They are claiming they snuck into our country because they wanted a better life. So why the hell didn't these 500,000 people, plus the other 10.5 million that are here illegally, hold these protests in their OWN country to improve it, rather than here to bring our country down.

And yes, someone who does the required paperwork should get preferential treatment when it comes to jobs because they KNOW HOW TO FOLLOW THE RULES. An illegal, even an honest hard working one, has already shown that he will break the rules and commit a crime whenever it benefits him/her.

And for all you idiots that keep saying the US would be lost without illegals, the US was more stable 60 years ago BEFORE the illegal plauge. Maybe many of you have never been around towns that had very few illegals and have never seen old white farmers working their land in the hot sun. Never seen white families doing their own labor. Heck, I'm sure there are some of you that have never even seen a white lawn crew. They exist, and they exist in large numbers. I don't have a maid. I don't know anyone that does have a maid. I don't know anyone that has a live in pool boy or lawn boy, or whatever. I have to do all these chores/jobs myself, as do many millions of other people. If the illegals leave/eject/deport/encarcerate the many millions of us will continue to do what we've done for 230 years in this country.


dude your wack


excersizing the first ammendment is tottaly bringing down the country!!! fuck!

and maybe people snuck in because they wanted a better life, becuase they dont have a chance at changing the way it was at home, not everyone has a democratic government that people have a say in.

for example, illegals from cuba, i dont think they will get far with convincing castro to do something.


edit
also people dont beleive everything the news tells you.
for example fox news is EXTREMELY BIASED and the owner of the station completely jocks bush and forces it upon his hirees or only hires conservativs.
one further example is then announced bush had one florida before it had been calculated! and he ended up loosing florida!

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: HootAuto
I have a friend who is Canadian, it took them a few months to get their green card...I've waited longer for a SS Card.

Getting a US green card, if you are a Canadian citizen, is alot easier than if you come from Mexico and many other countries for many reasons. First, the wait time, due to application backlogs, from Canada is very very short cause their are not nearly as many applicants from Canada as there is from other countries. Second, many Canadians have American relatives that can sponser them. Third, many more Canadians have professional training or education that will get them a green card for work reasons.

A friend of mine who immigrated to the US (legally) from Colombia had to wait 3 years to get his application looked at. I'm not saying I support illegals or think they shouldn't be sent home. I do think it is a problem...but like many others in this thread have said, the problems in the countries where these people are coming from need to be fixed. Along with a little work to the immigration process to make it a little easier on those who want to immigrate for legit reasons.

Originally posted by:4thHorse
This is a bigger issue then white peole are lazy.

What a dumb statement. There are lazy white people, lazy black people, lazy asian people, lazy hispanic people. Whether some one is lazy and doesn't work has nothing to do with skin color. That's like saying all *blank* people are racist...racism, laziness and many other problems permeate every ethnic group in existence. Humanity is flawed...get used to it.

[HyperTek]

whatever the outcome of this.. its gonna affect us all. If it passes, yah im sure there is gonna be trouble and upsets by people.

This is a touchy issue I think. Is this really aimed towards hispanics or all illegal immigrants? I think alot of the protesters where just kids who wanted to get out of schools.. This law is not racist, its just a wake up call for those to get thier things together.

Why would they rather live in fear of getting caught instead of waiting for some time and becoming documented citizens?

Im half filipino and have family members who waited over 10years for thier proper papers and documents thru the US embassy in the Phillipines just to come here. Yes my family members wish to come here for a better life, but they freaking take care of thier stuff and do it legally.

[HootAuto]

Let's all be honest....nothing posted on this thread is going to change anyones mind....but consider this:

Everyone that is a true American knows what it's like to work hard, pay bills, taxes that seem unfair at times, etc....latin americans know this FAR more than we do...it is so hard to get jobs in Mexico because nobody there is educated and they are raising prices of secondary schooling.....

Final thought: Don't expect rights if you come over illegally, that doesn't make sense to me!! Come over here legally, make a better life for your family, go to school or a job that offers training, and live just like every other American that immigrated here. If you can't do that.....don't come here...

This is my opinion, not how I do business....just to let everyone know!

[supportTHEezln]

I like how people just focus on the actual immigration issue and not really so much about the issue of Mexico needing major help. The problem isn't illegal immigration, it's that Mexico is fucked up. Due to whatever reason - the reason isn't really the issue anyway.

[breakindrifts]

The pending legislation is fuckin stupid. Get ready to pay like $25 bucks for a sack of potatoes because no one will want to be out in the field being paid $3 an hour. As if Southern California wasn't already in a damn inflation crisis.

All the people who are saying it isn't fair to those who immigrated illegally and blah blah get the fuck out with that shit. This country was founded on illegal immigration, white people were the ones to kill and take over the native americans in the first place, and I don't consider that "legal."

Plus I don't think anybody realizes how hard it is these days to "legally" immigrate into this country. Especially if you are living in a desperate situation on the lowest rung of poverty. The wait time for all the bullshit ins paperwork takes SEVERAL years.

Instead of trying to stop people from coming into our country, we should make an effort to reduce global poverty, (or at least in Mexico), instead of making it worse and pissing away money with shit like the war in Iraq.


Oh and Im not hispanic nor do I know anyone personally who came to this country illegal. And if you can't find a job because all the positions are being filled with illegal immigrants (even if you are 16), either kill yourself or get an education. :hahano:

[khmerguy618]

First of all educate yourselves before you start assuming that this affects just mexicans. Its HR 4437 you can find info against it here:
http://www.justiceforimmigrants.org/HR4437.html


Major Provisions of HR 4437

The following is a summary of the major provisions of H.R. 4437, the Border Protection, Anti-Terrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005. The legislation passed the House of Representatives 239-182 on Friday, December 16, 2005.

*

“Unlawful presence” would now be considered a crime and a felony, meaning that undocumented immigrants may have to serve jail time and would be barred from future legal status and from re-entry into the country.
*

Immigrants, including asylum-seekers, victims of human trafficking, victims of domestic abuse, and children who are apprehended along an international border or at a port-of-entry would be detained until such time as they are removed from the nation or otherwise provided immigration relief.
*

Anyone or any organization who “assists” an individual without documentation “to reside in or remain” in the United States knowingly or with “reckless disregard” as to the individual’s legal status would be liable for criminal penalties and five years in prison. This could include church personnel who provide shelter or other basic needs assistance to an undocumented individual. Property used in this act would be subject to seizure and forfeiture.
*

The use of expedited removal, which would permit DHS enforcement personnel to remove a potential asylum-seeker without providing an opportunity to appear before an immigration judge or qualified adjudicator, would be mandated within 100 miles of the border and within 14 days of a person’s entry into the country.
*

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) would be required to erect up to 700 miles of fencing along the Southwest border at points with the highest number of immigrant deaths.
*

State and local law enforcement are authorized to enforce federal immigration laws. State and local governments which refuse to participate would be subject to the loss of federal funding.
*

Asylum seekers and refugees who are convicted of a minor offense, such as petty theft, would be barred from permanent legal residence and eventual citizenship.
*

Document fraud would be considered an aggravated felony and would subject an asylum-seeker to deportation and bars to re-entry.
*

Nationals from countries who do not accept the return of aliens who commit crimes in this country would not be admitted to the United States. This would include countries such as China, Vietnam, and Cuba.
*

DHS would be given the authority to continue to detain individuals who have served their sentences based upon a determination that they are a “dangerous alien,” contrary to Supreme Court rulings barring indefinite detention.
* The diversity visa lottery program, which allows 50,000 immigrants each year from countries around the world to permanently reside in the United States, is eliminated.

These represent a few of the most egregious provisions of H.R. 4437.

It makes me ashamed to share citizenship with some of you so called "Americans." there were several posts about how my country blah blah blah...well let me guess you're WHITE...i belong here just as much as you do, but i get short changed cuz i'm brown...err yellow whatever... KMA how many of you WHITE folk ever been asked how long you been in the country? I used to get it constantly and english is my first language (I can speak formally or slang whatever)

Second thing. To whoever said it wasn't that hard to get a green card, maybe you say its not that hard to get a green card if you're canadian. Because i know several people who have had a difficult time getting one, let alone one for assylum, its a tedious and long process that isn't cheap (around 10k for lawyer and court fees) so dont' preach about how easy it is.

third, how can they justify building a 700mile wall in the name of anti-terrorism and illegal immigration, last time i checked the two towers was blown up cuz of a plane (open to interpretation/conspiracy theories). Don't give me this bullshit about how mexicans will start hijacking planes if there aren't any walls seperating us. it was a PLANE not someone hopping the us/mexican border.

Fouthly, WTF is wrong with the US, as if things aren't messed up enough here....How about money for hurricane relief? as if building a wall and conviciting everyone who is here "illegally" as a felon and deporting them won't cost any money GEEZ.

Fifth, you guys want a history lesson on the US and alienation/oppression? lets start with:
Slavery- Yay everyone own someone and treat them worse than you dogs, we'll bring 'em here against their will, ok cletus? ...get that shit outta here.

California/mexico- yeah the us jacked mexico for california

antimesegination laws- interracial marriage i don't think so...but look where we are today...

Anti asian immigration act- hmmm the beginning of a trend? when just being asian you couldn't even come into the country, KMA US.

Japanese Internment- oohhh ain't that some shit, reparations gonna fix the years you were ripped away from you home/friends/family? For what reason? because they were the "enemy" it wasn't just the US against Japan assholes.

How about the Vietnam war? Can't just mind their business and jump into others and fuck up countless other countries in the process.

These are just a couple of examples of the US's track record when it comes to people of color. Yeah its fucked up and i've spoken to a congressman face to face about this bill (which will hopefully be shot down) and this is just another excuse for those in power to abuse their authority even more.

Oh did i forget to mention that friends/associates of any of these "illegal immigrants" face a minimum of 30days to 3years in jail? This isn't just for mexicans people, it affects anyone who is a person of color, cuz i'm pretty sure they won't keep someone who looks like Adolf or Ahhnold out of the country.

Obviously my opinion of this bill is that it shouldn't pass, but why don't you read up on it and make your own decision...think about what anti-terrorism and illegal immigration could possibly have in common, and who's going to clean up your shit. I have my reasons and i'm sure many of you bush lovers have your reasons for wanting it to pass, and maybe you should move back to south where they still have the confederate flag up and you and your cousins can catch these "border hoppers" yourselves.

[SochBAT]

I'd like to think of it this way.

While hispanics would get a vast majority of the work, the economy gets fucked up, and to make up for the loss of business, other companies will either have to lower rates, decreasing profit, paying the same amount of tax, or raise the price to make up for it.

Regardless, we lose.

[theicecreamdan]

Second thing. To whoever said it wasn't that hard to get a green card, maybe you say its not that hard to get a green card if you're canadian. Because i know several people who have had a difficult time getting one, let alone one for assylum, its a tedious and long process that isn't cheap (around 10k for lawyer and court fees) so dont' preach about how easy it is.
.

not all rules are easy to follow, it doesn't make them less of a rule. The way I see this law is putting the ability to actually enforce laws that are already in place. As it is now, when illegals coming from Mexico are caught, they get put on a bus and dropped off in Tijuana or Tecate or whatever town is closest in Mexico, then the same people rush the border the next day and eventually they get past.

Its also hard to take any point of view from a lot of the posts in this thread because they are worded in such an angry manner. If you took some time to say what you think without telling the more conservative people that we are racist pigs, you might actually get a point across.

[theicecreamdan]

You god damn raceist mother fucking cock sucker you're turning this thread into a verbal war with you're shit. Shut the fuck up before you piss anyone else up with you're bull shit, You got alot of balls writing that shit up on here asswipe come over to my hood and tell that to someone and gurantee they will put a cap on you're retarded ass bitch.

I have SOOOO much more respect for you and the people in your "hood" now, really, I do...

[revat619]

Wow. This thread is pretty interesting.

All i'm saying is, you cant complain about stuff if you're here illegally. Simple as that. That crap just doesnt make any sense anyway you look at it.

Secondly, and probably what pisses me off the most, is how America caters to everybody else. Mainly the whole language thing. In San Diego, you almost have to be bilingual. Seriously, some employers will turn you away if you cant speak spanish....even if you're better qualified. WTF is that?! If you're gonna come over here, learn the language. I have A LOT of chinese, japanese, korean, and phillipino friends and if not themselves (cuz they were born here) they're parents learned atleast some english before immigrating...legally or illegally.

I know im jumping around....

Its just the lack of effort that pisses me off. I probably wouldnt care so much if some of them atleast attempted to learn or speak english. But a lot of them dont even try. And yet i'm supposed to bend over backwars for them in my own country?! Try that crap in europe. I spent some time in France and Italy. The majority of people speak some english, but if you walk up to them and just start speaking english and not even trying to communicate in the natvie tongue, they will act like they dont know what you're saying and brush you off. Quite rudely i might add. This was especially apparent in France. I'm rambling, but you get my point. If you're gonna come over illegally, fine, whatever. But show some damn effort if you wanna stay here. Learn atleast SOME of the language. Learn some of the customs, If i'm polite to you, be polite back. etc etc......

Oh yeah, i dont care what the policy ends up being, but if "you" come over here, your ass better have some car insurance cuz if you hit me, i'm not letting you off the hook with that "no insurance" BS. You're in America now. You hit me and you're gonna pay one way or another. I dont care what ethnicity you are. The money is coming from your insurance company or your own damn pocket. I dont care what your finncial situation is. If it was that bad, your ass should've been on the bus and not out driving with no insurance.

[Skullavera]

I totally agree with Khmerguy618. You just hit the right spots. Although I can go on and on about the history of this country, it's events, the many things we should be ashamed of and what not, I won't. It's sad to see so many people on the boards that automatically assume one thing or the other. HR 4437 will NOT pass. I don't care who you are or where you are from, this will NOT pass. If you think we (yes I am Chicano Born in Los Angeles of Mexican Blood) fuck up this country, think again. I can't wait to see all of you anti-immigrant, anti-hispanic people in ten years. Study the economy and demographics and you'll know what I mean. I work for the County of Los Angeles so I'm well informed of what type of assistance is offered to "Illegals." When ignorance blinds you from the universal truth, you will be universally lost.

[sideview_180sx]

Hopping a wall or fence should not be greeted with amneisty, BITCH be gone! If you aren't legal. Get the fuck out. If you didn't deal with the long process of become legal. Get the fuck out. If you have no form of ID and crash into my car, I will kill you, then toss you the fuck out. Done and Done.

[Skullavera]

Secondly, and probably what pisses me off the most, is how America caters to everybody else. Mainly the whole language thing. In San Diego, you almost have to be bilingual. Seriously, some employers will turn you away if you cant speak spanish....even if you're better qualified. WTF is that?! If you're gonna come over here, learn the language. I have A LOT of chinese, japanese, korean, and phillipino friends and if not themselves (cuz they were born here) they're parents learned atleast some english before immigrating...legally or illegally.

Its just the lack of effort that pisses me off. I probably wouldnt care so much if some of them atleast attempted to learn or speak english. But a lot of them dont even try. And yet i'm supposed to bend over backwars for them in my own country?! Try that crap in europe. I spent some time in France and Italy. The majority of people speak some english, but if you walk up to them and just start speaking english and not even trying to communicate in the natvie tongue, they will act like they dont know what you're saying and brush you off. This was especially apparent in France. I'm rambling, but you get my point. If you're gonna come over illegally, fine, whatever. But show some damn effort if you wanna stay here. Learn atleast SOME of the language. Learn some of the customs, If i'm polite to you, be polite back. etc etc......


In response to this......If someone is bilingual and carries your same qualifications other than the fact they know a second language fluently, wouldn't that make them more qualified that you? I think so. Since you're not an employer, I don't think you can say that someone less qualified yet knows a second language can be "less qualified" than you.

Lack of effort? While you were busy in France and Italy, some people here were making the effort to put food on the table for their family. As far as the politeness you speak of, this is more of a universal rule, not an american custom.

[Skullavera]

Hopping a wall or fence should not be greeted with amneisty, BITCH be gone! If you aren't legal. Get the fuck out. If you didn't deal with the long process of become legal. Get the fuck out. If you have no form of ID and crash into my car, I will kill you, then toss you the fuck out. Done and Done.

Yet coming to this country and taking the land from all who were here is fine right. I'd like to see you say that when this wasn't the U.S. Goes to show the extent of true greed.

[sideview_180sx]

Yet coming to this country and taking the land from all who were here is fine right. I'd like to see you say that when this wasn't the U.S. Goes to show the extent of true greed.

Dood I'm black(native to ethiopia, had a geneology test done) and native american (cherokee). My ancestors were taken from their own land, and hand their land stolen from them. Bitch some more.

In america, english is the primary language, so if all 'immigrants' or people local to that area spoke english. that would make you more qualified then someone who knows broken english and fluent in a secondary language. No where else in america is it a hassle to know some spanish if you are not hispanic/latino/spanish/etc....

BTW if you have a SSN or a valid VISA or green card, don't bitch about it. If you aren't legal, you should be shaking in your boots

[revat619]

For the record, i dont think Hispanics are screwing up the country. Thats an idiotic statement.

Whatever ethnicity the immigrants are doesnt matter. Its laziness and a lack of effort that i despise. If John and Jane Doe so desperately want to be in America, is it too much to ask that you learn some of our customs and perhaps oh i dunno, ATLEAST some basic phrases in the native language?

[khmerguy618]

Originally Posted by khmerguy618
Second thing. To whoever said it wasn't that hard to get a green card, maybe you say its not that hard to get a green card if you're canadian. Because i know several people who have had a difficult time getting one, let alone one for assylum, its a tedious and long process that isn't cheap (around 10k for lawyer and court fees) so dont' preach about how easy it is.
.

not all rules are easy to follow, it doesn't make them less of a rule. The way I see this law is putting the ability to actually enforce laws that are already in place. As it is now, when illegals coming from Mexico are caught, they get put on a bus and dropped off in Tijuana or Tecate or whatever town is closest in Mexico, then the same people rush the border the next day and eventually they get past.

Its also hard to take any point of view from a lot of the posts in this thread because they are worded in such an angry manner. If you took some time to say what you think without telling the more conservative people that we are racist pigs, you might actually get a point across.

Sorry if my post came off as angry, i'm an Anthro/Asian am major and i'm pretty active activist, so when i see stuff like this come up it stirs up a lot of emotions, but its all written in context with what was posted before hand, i'm open to any discussion on the matter if anyone feels like pm'ing me. Like i said it's just my 2cents. Check out the website and decide for yourself. Issues like these you can't tiptoe around, you gotta step on toes to make things happen.

[Skullavera]

For the record, i dont think Hispanics are screwing up the country. Thats an idiotic statement.

Whatever ethnicity the immigrants are doesnt matter. Its laziness and a lack of effort that i despise. If John and Jane Doe so desperately want to be in America, is it too much to ask that you learn some of our customs and perhaps oh i dunno, ATLEAST some basic phrases in the native language?

For what? How will that help? Basic phrases like Hello, Thank you, Goodbye, how much. What are you talking about. Learning a language on an adult level is difficult if you know anything about the psychological aspect of learning. It takes time, and sometimes time is something one has.

[Skullavera]

Sorry if my post came off as angry, i'm an Anthro/Asian am major and i'm pretty active activist, so when i see stuff like this come up it stirs up a lot of emotions, but its all written in context with what was posted before hand, i'm open to any discussion on the matter if anyone feels like pm'ing me. Like i said it's just my 2cents. Check out the website and decide for yourself. Issues like these you can't tiptoe around, you gotta step on toes to make things happen.


It is the expressive power of words that help in times like these. When that alone fails, larger measures are taken. I totally agree with you man. I'm glad I'm not the only one here with these views and ideologies.

[revat619]

In response to this......If someone is bilingual and carries your same qualifications other than the fact they know a second language fluently, wouldn't that make them more qualified that you? I think so. Since you're not an employer, I don't think you can say that someone less qualified yet knows a second language can be "less qualified" than you.

Lack of effort? While you were busy in France and Italy, some people here were making the effort to put food on the table for their family. As far as the politeness you speak of, this is more of a universal rule, not an american custom.

First off, no shit sherlock.

What i mean is this and this actually happened. I worked for a company and there were a couple other guys who got hired at the SAME TIME i did. i was given a lower position and less pay, then the other guys. They were bilingual yes. But they were complete MORONS and i was ALWAYS put in charge over them. Let me tell you again. I was put in charge of THEM. Why? They didnt know how to do crap! and yet i get paid less because i cant speak a second language?! WTF! How is the person in charge of a group of people going to get paid LESS than the people he is in charge of? If im less qualified, fine. Dont hire me. But to slap me in the face and TELL me to my face that these guys dont know what hell they're doing and that i need to "show them how to do things right" and "be a leader" and get paid LESS simply cuz speak spanish fluently?! Thats BS.

Secondly, dont patronize me. Dont act like because i was able to travel that i lack effort or somehow dont work. You think i went for free? I didnt. i had to work hard and save for a while to be able to go. So stfu. And yeah politeness is a universal custom however, it sure as hell isnt practiced universally. I'm in San Diego, i witness this crap daily. Rudeness FAAAAR out weighs politeness.

As for the language thing, you wouldnt understand it unless you experienced it first hand. At my previous jobs, i've had people literally pissed off because i couldnt speak fluent spanish when they asked me a question. Like seriously RUDE. WTF? But i knew enough to know when they were talking shit and thats what pisses me off. How are you gonna get mad at me just cuz i dont speak your particular foreign language?!

[drift freaq]

you guys have got to lose the hate period. I see people in this thread hating on whites and I see people hating on the protests. Is the bill fucked up? Yes. Are American imigration policies fucked up since 9/11 yes. Though to many of you try to paint it black and white. All of this is not that simple, there are complex issues here. I am Italian American, now immediately some people including Chinese American friends of mine will make Mafia comments. Is that right? No. Truth is my skin is thicker than that. Fact is most Italians have nothing to do with the Mafia and its a Sicilian thing.
50 years ago we were the minority. Did we ask the country to speak our language? No, we learned english the language of our adopted country. We became a productive part of American society by becoming Americans, we did not lose our heritage just because we did not speak the old country language.
Now on to the comments about what Americans have done. There is not a country in this world that has not oppressed their own citizens at one time or another. Does it make it right? No. Does it justify it? no. It does say to anyone who criticizes Americas mistakes, look at the country your heritage came from, is it any better?. Let me see Native americans warred amongest themselves killing each other. Cambodians killed Cambodians under Pol Pot. Viet Cong killed south Vietnamese. Japanese killed Chinese and Koreans, Chinese killed Chinese. French chopped affluent peoples heads in the name of freedom and revolution. English attacked Scottish, Germans attacked Europe and slaughtered Jews and dissenters, Russians killed all kinds of russians and eastern europeans under Stalin.
etc... Whats the point. Don't criticize unless your culture is not guilty and there is no culture in the world today that is not guilty. People talk about America messing with Vietnam, lest you forgot the French were there first. What about the French in Algiers? People we are human and far from perfect . WE alll make mistakes we all do fucked up shit sometimes not intentionally. IF we did not we would not be in this school of life.
I don't agree with the current legislation. Though I do not feel, high school students skipping there education to protest it is the brightest thing they could be doing.
Now if you really want to be an American you will stop hating on your fellow Americans and learn to accept each other. American is the greatest expirement in the history of man. Never before have so many different cultures been put together under one country. Last thing you should want to do is cuss out, threaten to kill or hate on your fellow Americans. On top of that if you feel the system is fucked up become part of it to change it. Study politics, become a voice for your culture. Vote!! Please just don't hate on the country, your here because the country gave your parents, my parents, maybe your parents parents an oppurtunity. There are many great things about the country including the ability to be able to criticize our goverment if we should desire to. If you can't see that, maybe you should leave. I think most of you do see that. Change the country for the better, just don't hate.

[Skullavera]

First off, no shit sherlock.

What i mean is this and this actually happened. I worked for a company and there were a couple other guys who got hired at the same time i did. i was given a lower position and less pay, then the other guys. They were bilingual yes. But they were complete MORONS and i was ALWAYS put in charge over them. Let me tell you again. I was put in charge of THEM. Why? They didnt know how to do crap! and yet i get paid less because i cant speak a second language?! WTF! How is the person in charge of a group of people going to get paid LESS than the people he is in charge of?

Secondly, dont patronize me. Dont act like because i was able to travel that i lack effort or somehow dont work. You think i went for free? I didnt. i had to work hard and save for a while to be able to go. So stfu. And yeah politeness is a universal custom however, it sure as hell isnt practiced universally. I'm in San Diego, i witness this crap daily. Rudeness FAAAAR out weighs politeness.


The fact that the company you worked for gave them higher pay and higher positions is something you should have taken up with someone there. I'm sorry you didn't have the balls to stand up for what you believe is right and had to deal with the oppression you felt from your boss. If what you say truly happened in the capacity of your words, that's illegal. You cannot discriminate based on Language, but if knowledge of the language is a requirement, tough, your out of luck.

I never patronized you, if you took that offensively, take it up with your own mind. Read my text carefully. The fact that you said "stfu" clearly shows how ignorant you are. I never said you didn't work hard to go on that trip. I simply wanted you to open your mind and understand that some people do not have that luxury. Some people will never see Italy or France even though they bust their ass their whole lives working.

I know about rudeness man, I work for the County of Los Angeles. I work with Medi-Cal, Food Stamps, and Cash-Aid. Needless to say, it's the people that ARE CITIZENS that are rude here in the office. Generations of families that have been on Public Assistance. Not illegals because they don't qualify for ANY benefits, only emergency Medi-Cal which only covers emergency related services.

[drift freaq]

The fact that the company you worked for gave them higher pay and higher positions is something you should have taken up with someone there. I'm sorry you didn't have the balls to stand up for what you believe is right and had to deal with the oppression you felt from your boss. Done.

I never patronized you, if you took that offensively, take it up with your own mind. Read my text carefully. The fact that you said "stfu" clearly shows how ignorant you are. I never said you didn't work hard to go on that trip. I simply wanted you to open your mind and understand that some people do not have that luxury. Some people will never see Italy or France even though they bust their ass their whole lives working.

I know about rudeness man, I work for the County of Los Angeles. I work with Medi-Cal, Food Stamps, and Cash-Aid. Needless to say, it's the people that ARE CITIZENS that are rude here in the office. Generations of families that have been on Public Assistance. Not illegals because they don't qualify for ANY benefits, only emergency Medi-Cal which only covers emergency related services.
The rude people you are talking about are undereducated, or uneducated blue collar, or worse people, who ghettoized themselves and do not want to try to make there life better. Its not really represenitive of the average american and if you think it is then you need to step back and look outside of where you work and outside of Central Los Angeles. The United States is far from perfect but a vast majority of us are quite nice people who are not rude. Ya get us all on the internet and we e thug. Truth is you cannot base your judgement of Americans on the small cross section you deal with in your office. Most Americans are not on General assistance for generations and for you to just assume that kind of person represents Americans is a blatanly ignorant and insulting statement for you to make.

[Skullavera]

The rude people you are talking about are undereducated, or uneducated blue collar, or worse people, who ghettoized themselves and do not want to try to make there life better. Its not really represenitive of the average american and if you think it is then you need to step back and look outside of where you work and outside of Central Los Angeles. The United States is far from perfect but a vast majority of us are quite nice people who are not rude. Ya get us all on the internet and we e thug. Truth is you cannot base your judgement of Americans on the small cross section you deal with in your office. Most Americans are not on General assistance for generations and for you to just assume that kind of person represents Americans is a blatanly ignorant and insulting statement for you to make.

Yes I agree with you and my intention wasn't to generalize on the representation of the average American. My statement was set as a rebuttal for Revat619's statement saying that immigrants should learn our custom of being polite. This statement shows ignorance in itself because he himself generalized based on the cross section he deals with. What I should have said was that you can't make a statement like that and expect it to be true of all immigrant people. My statement isn't to say all american's are lazy and on welfare, my statement is to show that it isn't always how you think it is. With an open mind you can understand this, as you have. Your views are like mine and I apologize if I made a statement that was insulting or ignorant. That wasn't my intention. I hope you now see what I aimed at reaching.

[DRavenS13]

I don't understand what this is supposed to help. Undocumented immigrants may have to serve jail time? Wouldn't that cost more money to the country to keep them in jail and send them back?

Last time I checked, the terrorists that were here that did damage to this country were here legally. This is supposed to be anti-terrorist, but I don't remember Juan Garcia or Miguel Sanchez flying that plane into the building. It was an Ahmed or a Mohammed. No offense to Muslim people, but you guys have more of a history doing that ish than Mexicans do. And white ppl arent too far behind (Richard Reed/ Timothy McVeigh).

Also, a lot of the jobs that illegals take are the ones that supposed "Americans" don't wanna do. I used to live in Selma (10mi S of Fresno) and I got into it with this one white guy that said that my people shouldn't be here. And I asked him this- "Would you take a job picking strawberries in a field?" He said "no." I said, "There it is. My people are out there sometimes 12 hours a day doing jobs that no one wants to do."

Why is it so easy for Americans to get a passport and go live in some other country, or even just take your birth certificate and go across the border, but our people die just with the thought of a chance to make it in this country by taking horrific chances and paying coyotes unbelievable amounts of money, or waiting in the system for YEARS before they are granted citizenship?

The only way illegals benefit from coming here is picking up jobs they are not supposed to have. Correct me if I'm mistaken, Silver240esex, but illegals don't qualify for welfare benefits or anything like that. So they're not taking anything away from the government except for not paying taxes. But then they get paid less than people that are legal here, so they end up getting less than if they had minimum-wage jobs and paid taxes. Most come here with the hope of making life better for themselves and/or for their children. That's why my family came here. That's what most of our families came here for.

The only people here that are not immigrants are Native Americans. They were here from the beginning, and they were forced off their land into reservations, and the only way they make any profit for their people is to resort to gaming. They are treated like crap by the government, and yet, white people are more immigrants then they are. Most black people are not immigrants either, they were forced here, and they benefit most from the system than any other ethnicity (no offense to black ppl, but for the most part it's true).

And the end of the day, yes, there should be immigration laws to monitor the people that enter this country, because we do need to keep the ones that want to do this country harm out. But this is not regulation- this is discrimination. This whole country was built on the idea of people from other lands trying to escape oppression. What, so now that the original immigrants that were here took over and made this land theirs, now they get to turn around and say, "all full now, sorry. You're all bad people and you don't deserve to be here"??

[revat619]

The fact that the company you worked for gave them higher pay and higher positions is something you should have taken up with someone there. I'm sorry you didn't have the balls to stand up for what you believe is right and had to deal with the oppression you felt from your boss. Done.

I never patronized you, if you took that offensively, take it up with your own mind. Read my text carefully. The fact that you said "stfu" clearly shows how ignorant you are. I never said you didn't work hard to go on that trip. I simply wanted you to open your mind and understand that some people do not have that luxury. Some people will never see Italy or France even though they bust their ass their whole lives working.

I know about rudeness man, I work for the County of Los Angeles. I work with Medi-Cal, Food Stamps, and Cash-Aid. Needless to say, it's the people that ARE CITIZENS that are rude here in the office. Generations of families that have been on Public Assistance. Not illegals because they don't qualify for ANY benefits, only emergency Medi-Cal which only covers emergency related services.

I did stand up for what i thought was right. I demanded a raise. I gave a specific amount that i wanted. They said no. I quit. I know have a MUCH better job. Done.

Secondly. I apologize for misunderstandig what you wrote then. To me it seemed like you were making a comparison to me being away while other people were hard at work as if i wasnt or hadnt been. I worked very hard to be able to go on that trip and i still work hard everyday, so yeah i was offended. I apologize for misunderstanding. I totally understand that not all people have that luxury. I'm not oblivious to that. I was making reference to the language issue over there, not taking the trip.

In your work field, that makes sense that the rude people would be citizens. But over the years, i've done a lot of work in retail/sales/business and its in that area that i've seen what i've seen.

EDIT: I never said ALL immigrants are bad or whatever. But I was indeed making a general statement about ANY body immigrating here. If whoever is coming here wants to be here, fine. Whatever. Be here. More power to you! But if you're gonna be here, learn how do things and so on and so forth. If you're one of those that already does that, great! If you're not, i would appreciate it if you changed and acted like one of those who does. If you CHOSE not to, THATS where i have the problem. Thats all i was trying to get across!

[Skullavera]

The only way illegals benefit from coming here is picking up jobs they are not supposed to have. Correct me if I'm mistaken, Silver240esex, but illegals don't qualify for welfare benefits or anything like that. So they're not taking anything away from the government except for not paying taxes. But then they get paid less than people that are legal here, so they end up getting less than if they had minimum-wage jobs and paid taxes. Most come here with the hope of making life better for themselves and/or for their children. That's why my family came here. That's what most of our families came here for.


Illegal immigrants do not qualify for welfare benefits. You are correct. Only emergency medi-cal and pregnancy related services. Why? Well if they are pregnant, then that child will more than likely be born here, so the services in itself are for upcoming citizens lol. Please see the following link for information regarding the rules and regulations on public assistance. At least for CA.:

www.ladpss.org

[DRavenS13]

You know, it's not just Spanish-speaking people that look at you wrong when you don't know the language. What I think is rude is when I go to a place were Asian people work, and they totally talk ish about you in their language right in front of you. Customers do it too. They totally talk crap to you, but they think it's okay because you don't understand what they're saying, like body language doesn't speak volumes. I worked for a Korean lady at a swap meet when I was in high school, and she would talk to me in Korean, and I'd look at her like ?, and she would talk $-hit to me because I didn't know what she was saying. She literally told me, "If your people can learn English, the least you can do is learn Korean so I can speak to you."

Rudeness transcends all races and religions. To say that it's just this nationality or that one, or because you're illegal or not, is kinda small-minded.

I totally understand what you're saying about immigrants having to learn the language, I completely agree, but it doesn't happen overnight. My mom's been in this country since she was 10 years old, and I STILL have to explain to her some words and meanings. My mom is fluent, she doesn't even have that much of an accent when she speaks, but when you think about it, Americans don't speak English all that great either.

[Skullavera]

I did stand up for what i thought was right. I demanded a raise. I gave a specific amount that i wanted. They said no. I quit. I know have a MUCH better job. Done.

Secondly. I apologize for misunderstandig what you wrote then. To me it seemed like you were making a comparison to me being away while other people were hard at work as if i wasnt or hadnt been. I worked very hard to be able to go on that trip and i still work hard everyday, so yeah i was offended. I apologize for misunderstanding. I totally understand that not all people have that luxury. I'm not oblivious to that. I was making reference to the language issue over there, not taking the trip.

In your work field, that makes sense that the rude people would be citizens. But over the years, i've done a lot of work in retail/sales/business and its in that area that i've seen what i've seen.

EDIT: I never said ALL immigrants are bad or whatever. I was indeed making a general statement. If whoever is coming here wants to be here, fine. Whatever. Be here. More power to you. But if you're gonna be her, learn how do things and so on and so forth. If you're one of those that already does that, great! If you're not, i would appreciate it if you changed to one of those who does. Thats all i was trying to get across!


Sometimes its funny how we get things mixed up, then even more mixed up, then it turns into something that is completely different that what it was originally. We're all here to better ourselves. We're all human. We all have the basic needs for life. Everyone here on the boards will always be my brother or sister. I'm like that. It's true that sometimes it hurts when people see things a certain way, and sometimes it's hard to control what I feel inside, but in the end, we're all people. We all have deserve to be here, not just in the US but here in the present of our existence. Because we have our own mind or views are often skewed as a result of our experiences and perceptions in life. The truth changes to what we believe. It happens because we are human, and are not born perfect. I respect you Revat619, because you can go back and admit your mistakes, that takes a lot of character. Sure this is the internet and I will most likely never meet you in person, but that is a respectable thing to do. Maybe you're saying to yourself, that it's just who you are, and that's good. You are humble and have a good-heart. I apologize if I offended you in any way. A lot of people lack that in themselves. For everyone here, on this thread and delicate subject, try not to be too judgemental and subjective. Try to be understanding. We're all different and living in this multi-cultural country is something that should be beautiful. Where else can you see so many different ethnic backgrounds come together to form one union? No where else. The problem at hand doesn't have an easy solution. Just be open to the views of others and share what you think but in a positive way. If you don't know something, just ask! Lets just try to change the tone of this thread. We all deserve to be here. You, your mom, your dad, uncle, sister, brother, dog, canary, etc. We're here for a reason, and it's not to be criticizing each other about what we do and what we don't. What we should do and what we shouldn't do. Let's just try helping each other out. The hell with the racism and discrimination. The hell with the labeling and categorization. We're all the same. Whether you believe in the big bang theory or that God created us, we all came from the same place. The beginning started SOMEWHERE, and that somewhere is where we are from. Take care all of you reading this, and I hope that at least you have given a chance to what I have said. Thanks.

[DRavenS13]

I read this, and wanted to add it in. FYI that would put some of the more "uninformed" comments to rest.

Myths

Immigrants don’t pay taxes

*Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay income taxes as well, as evidenced by the Social Security Administration’s “suspense file” (taxes that cannot be matched to workers’ names and social security numbers), which grew by $20 billion between 1990 and 1998

(Source: http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax_study.htm)

Immigrants come here to take welfare

*Immigrants come to work and reunite with family members. Immigrant labor force participation is consistently higher than native-born, and immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S. In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits. In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.

(Source: “Questioning Immigration Policy – Can We Afford to Open Our Arms?”, Friends Committee on National Legislation Document #G-606-DOM, January 25, 1996. http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html)

Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans

*The largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900s coincided with our lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. Immigrant entrepreneurs create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers, and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. While there has been no comprehensive study done of immigrant-owned businesses, we have countless examples: in Silicon Valley, companies begun by Chinese and Indian immigrants generated more than $19.5 billion in sales and nearly 73,000 jobs in 2000.

(Source: Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Stephen Moore, Immigration and Unemployment: New Evidence, Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, Arlington, VA (Mar. 1994), p. 13.

Immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy

*During the 1990s, half of all new workers were foreign-born, filling gaps left by native-born workers in both the high- and low-skill ends of the spectrum. Immigrants fill jobs in key sectors, start their own businesses, and contribute to a thriving economy. The net benefit of immigration to the U.S. is nearly $10 billion annually. As Alan Greenspan points out, 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age. That means we haven’t spent a penny on their education, yet they are transplanted into our workforce and will contribute $500 billion toward our social security system over the next 20 years

(Source: Andrew Sum, Mykhaylo Trubskyy, Ishwar Khatiwada, et al., Immigrant Workers in the New England Labor Market: Implications for Workforce Development Policy, Center for Labor Market Studies, Northeastern University, Boston, Prepared for the New England Regional Office, the Employment and Training Administration, and the U.S. Department of Labor, Boston, Massachusetts, October 2002.

http://www.nupr.neu.edu/1102/immigration.PDF#search='center%20for%20labor%20mar ket%20studies%20at%
20Northeastern%20University%20studies')

Immigrants don’t want to learn English or become Americans

*Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. Greater than 33% of immigrants are naturalized citizens; given increased immigration in the 1990s, this figure will rise as more legal permanent residents become eligible for naturalization in the coming years. The number of immigrants naturalizing spiked sharply after two events: enactment of immigration and welfare reform laws in 1996, and the terrorist attacks in 2001.

(Source: American Immigration Lawyers Association, “Myths & Facts in the Immigration Debate”, 8/14/03. http://www.aila.org/contentViewer.aspx?bc=17,142#section4)
(Source: Simon Romero and Janet Elder, “Hispanics in the US Report Optimism” New York Times, (Aug. 6, 2003).

Most immigrants cross the border illegally

*Around 75% of today’s immigrants have legal permanent (immigrant) visas; of the 25% that are undocumented, 40% overstayed temporary (non-immigrant) visas.

(Source: Department of Homeland Security (http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/index.htm)

Weak U.S. border enforcement has lead to high undocumented immigration

*From 1986 to 1998, the Border Patrol’s budget increased six-fold and the number of agents stationed on our southwest border doubled to 8,500. The Border Patrol also toughened its enforcement strategy, heavily fortifying typical urban entry points and pushing migrants into dangerous desert areas, in hopes of deterring crossings. Instead, the undocumented immigrant population doubled in that timeframe, to 8 million—despite the legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs in need of workers, has significantly contributed to this current conundrum.

(Source: Immigration and Naturalization website: http://www.ncjrs.org/ondcppubs/publications/enforce/border/ins_3.html)

The war on terrorism can be won through immigration restrictions

*No security expert since September 11th, 2001 has said that restrictive immigration measures would have prevented the terrorist attacks—instead, the key is effective use of good intelligence. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legal visas. Since 9/11, the myriad of measures targeting immigrants in the name of national security have netted no terrorism prosecutions. In fact, several of these measures could have the opposite effect and actually make us less safe, as targeted communities of immigrants are afraid to come forward with information.

(Source: Associated Press/Dow Jones Newswires, “US Senate Subcommittee Hears Immigration Testimony”, Oct. 17, 2001.)
(Source: Cato Institute: “Don’t Blame Immigrants for Terrorism”, Daniel Griswold, Assoc. Director of Cato Institute’s Center for Trade Policy Studies (see: http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-23-01.html)

[Skullavera]

Good info to know ^^^^

[revat619]

You know, it's not just Spanish-speaking people that look at you wrong when you don't know the language. What I think is rude is when I go to a place were Asian people work, and they totally talk ish about you in their language right in front of you. Customers do it too. They totally talk crap to you, but they think it's okay because you don't understand what they're saying, like body language doesn't speak volumes. I worked for a Korean lady at a swap meet when I was in high school, and she would talk to me in Korean, and I'd look at her like ?, and she would talk $-hit to me because I didn't know what she was saying. She literally told me, "If your people can learn English, the least you can do is learn Korean so I can speak to you."

Rudeness transcends all races and religions. To say that it's just this nationality or that one, or because you're illegal or not, is kinda small-minded.

I totally understand what you're saying about immigrants having to learn the language, I completely agree, but it doesn't happen overnight. My mom's been in this country since she was 10 years old, and I STILL have to explain to her some words and meanings. My mom is fluent, she doesn't even have that much of an accent when she speaks, but when you think about it, Americans don't speak English all that great either.


Thank you!!!

i wasnt just saying only some of the imigrants were rude though. Like you said rudeness is everywhere. Its that talking crap to/about you or just being a flat out dick because you dont speak a certain language rudeness that i was referring too. I just dont think thats right. If i go into a foreign country, i have no right to be upset and rude to the people there if they dont speak my language. Unfortunately, SOME immigrants (regardless of ethnic background) dont see it that way.

Whatever, all you can really do in the end is be polite to any and everyone you encounter and hope that it is reciprocated.

But yeah, very well said DRavenS13. :bow:

To silver240esex, right back atcha bro. You didnt have to apologize either, but you did. And thats pretty darn cool in my book. I appreciate it man. :bow:

[Romeyo07]

I'm hispanic and I sure don't mind them trying to tighten up the laws. Out of the list that was posted on the revisions, the only pointless one would be building that wall, which really is a far-fetched idea.

The history (track record) of America is pointless in this scenario because we have current laws that cannot be disregarded because of them. As screwed up as a lot of the laws and regulations might seem, it is the law and you can't go around it.

The biggest complaint in our area (georgia) is the lack of rights. You're not legal, rights are for citizens....period. I see this scenario like you breaking into my house, and expecting me to make you dinner.

My parents learned english and speak it very well. And you better believe that ALL of my friends who legally came here to the U.S. HATES a border jumper for not doing it the right way. I'm talking about friends from Trinidad, Europe, Brazil, and Mexico who paid their way, learned english, got a job, and are just like the rest of us. It can be done, SO QUIT BEING LAZY AND CHEAP ABOUT IT! Wait your time and your turn. Sound like a bunch of kids whining about not getting what they want when they want it. Why should you have to skip the process that MANY have had to go through. You want to be here, then deal with it just like everyone else.

If you love your country so much, screaming "viva mexico" in protest to the country you live in, then why are you here? Have a problem with the way we do things here, you can always go back home.

The employers of the illegals are asking the government to help them "streamline" the process to assist their employees gain citizenship. I think the hard working illegals should stay. I believe part of the new bill will help the illegals by only having them pay 2k, get their paperwork lined up, and let them stay in the country.

I grew up with migrant workers around. Went to school with their kids, and worked with them as part as one of my first jobs. They're hard working people willing to do the work most people dont' really want to do. The law being passed works to their advantage to get them on the right side of the law.

[Phlip]

I'm moving to San Antonio, TX in October and I will be knee deep in the bean soup. Those little bastards know damn well what they are doing when they illegally sneak into what I consider "my" country. I can say it's mine because i'm in the military and have been serving this country for 13 years. For them to cross the border and come here and screw up the economy by taking jobs away from those that are legally here is BS. The one thing that pisses me off the most about the whole ordeal is the fact that they can have the half-million bean march in L.A. and wave the "mexican" flag in our United States. I live in MS right now and there are so many of them here just hanging outside the stores and whatnot waiting for a handout. And another thing, they get free medical care whereas with me being in the military who is supposed to get free medical benefits but still have to pay for it at some point. They should have dropped a bomb in L.A. the other day, at least we would have knocked a half-mil of em off. Fill the Rio Grande with Pirahnas, lace the desert with every poisonous snake known to man. My buddy and I are thinking of starting our own business called "Tex-Mex Roundup". It's gonna be a privateer illegal extermination service. We'll tell them that we have an orange to be picked or a roof to be shingled and truck their asses back to "Mehico" in the back of a non air-conditioned semi truck. Let's see how many of them "sneak" in then!
Congratulations, pinked for 3 months on your FIRST POST!

[exitspeed]

Congratulations, pinked for 3 months on your FIRST POST!


What an idiot.:smash: :Owned:

[lowviscosity]

There were 500,000 people protesting In LA the other day. They are claiming they snuck into our country because they wanted a better life. So why the hell didn't these 500,000 people, plus the other 10.5 million that are here illegally, hold these protests in their OWN country to improve it, rather than here to bring our country down.

.

He has a point... and if they are illegal they do not have "first admendment rights"

Take it to where they are... where they came from do not bring it here if you want a better life do it legally. Don't expect a good outcome from coming into here illegally. Like someone said before its like "stealing a car then protesting its your car"

[lowviscosity]

Congratulations, pinked for 3 months on your FIRST POST!
Yah ha now I feel bad for starting this thread because someone got banned o well he desereved it that was racist. AND Again this bill has nothing to do with racist.. all it is, is a bill thats trying to enforce something that is already ILLEGAL! This is not about hispanics and whites... its just about a bill, that is being passed to control what we have always had a problem with, our borders.

[Phlip]

Yah ha now I feel bad for starting this thread because someone got banned o well he desereved it that was racist. AND Again this bill has nothing to do with racist.. all it is, is a bill thats trying to enforce something that is already ILLEGAL! This is not about hispanics and whites... its just about a bill, that is being passed to control what we have always had a problem with, our borders.
No worries for you, you didn't do anything wrong starting an off topic thread in the off topic section... He got what he got for being a jackass.

[yudalicious]

some of you guys are missing the point of the original post - most of us aren't hating on mexicans or illegal immigrants, the point is, if you come into this country illegally then you should NOT expect too many rights. The people that take the risk to come in here illegally should probably have the notion that they're not going to have everything their way. Do I look down on a hard working illegal immigrant and want to round him and his friends up and send him back? No. Do I think it is right for illegal immigrants to complain about how they are treated in a country in which they are illegal? No.

If hispanic illegal immigrants should be treated like legal residents then what about asian illegal immigrants? african? Ask yourself, if millions of chinese illegal immigrants came over, then competed for jobs with the hispanic immigrants, how would YOU feel? Would you make the same argument for the hardworking chinese illegal immigrants as you have made for the hispanic illegal immigrants? My point is it seems to me that some of you support the hispanic illegal immigrants just because of your background, so if it were hardworking chinese illegal immigrants or hardworking african illegal immigrants would you still feel the same?

America is a country, when it was founded everyone came freely and from different backgrounds, no one cared about legal or illegal immigration. But now in this day and age it is not possible for America to accept everyone that wants to come over, in an ideal world everyone who deserves a chance and a good life should get one, but this world isn't close to perfect, that's why we have stringent immigration laws. If everyone that wanted to come over did, America would be a big mess, economy probably will go down the drain.

[lowviscosity]

First of all educate yourselves before you start assuming that this affects just mexicans. Its HR 4437 you can find info against it here:
http://www.justiceforimmigrants.org/HR4437.html



These represent a few of the most egregious provisions of H.R. 4437.

It makes me ashamed to share citizenship with some of you so called "Americans." there were several posts about how my country blah blah blah...well let me guess you're WHITE...i belong here just as much as you do, but i get short changed cuz i'm brown...err yellow whatever... KMA how many of you WHITE folk ever been asked how long you been in the country? I used to get it constantly and english is my first language (I can speak formally or slang whatever)

Second thing. To whoever said it wasn't that hard to get a green card, maybe you say its not that hard to get a green card if you're canadian. Because i know several people who have had a difficult time getting one, let alone one for assylum, its a tedious and long process that isn't cheap (around 10k for lawyer and court fees) so dont' preach about how easy it is.

third, how can they justify building a 700mile wall in the name of anti-terrorism and illegal immigration, last time i checked the two towers was blown up cuz of a plane (open to interpretation/conspiracy theories). Don't give me this bullshit about how mexicans will start hijacking planes if there aren't any walls seperating us. it was a PLANE not someone hopping the us/mexican border.

Fouthly, WTF is wrong with the US, as if things aren't messed up enough here....How about money for hurricane relief? as if building a wall and conviciting everyone who is here "illegally" as a felon and deporting them won't cost any money GEEZ.

Fifth, you guys want a history lesson on the US and alienation/oppression? lets start with:
Slavery- Yay everyone own someone and treat them worse than you dogs, we'll bring 'em here against their will, ok cletus? ...get that shit outta here.

California/mexico- yeah the us jacked mexico for california

antimesegination laws- interracial marriage i don't think so...but look where we are today...

Anti asian immigration act- hmmm the beginning of a trend? when just being asian you couldn't even come into the country, KMA US.

Japanese Internment- oohhh ain't that some shit, reparations gonna fix the years you were ripped away from you home/friends/family? For what reason? because they were the "enemy" it wasn't just the US against Japan assholes.

How about the Vietnam war? Can't just mind their business and jump into others and fuck up countless other countries in the process.

These are just a couple of examples of the US's track record when it comes to people of color. Yeah its fucked up and i've spoken to a congressman face to face about this bill (which will hopefully be shot down) and this is just another excuse for those in power to abuse their authority even more.

Oh did i forget to mention that friends/associates of any of these "illegal immigrants" face a minimum of 30days to 3years in jail? This isn't just for mexicans people, it affects anyone who is a person of color, cuz i'm pretty sure they won't keep someone who looks like Adolf or Ahhnold out of the country.

Obviously my opinion of this bill is that it shouldn't pass, but why don't you read up on it and make your own decision...think about what anti-terrorism and illegal immigration could possibly have in common, and who's going to clean up your shit. I have my reasons and i'm sure many of you bush lovers have your reasons for wanting it to pass, and maybe you should move back to south where they still have the confederate flag up and you and your cousins can catch these "border hoppers" yourselves.

Again you are turning into a racist act. This is by all means something that is stated in the clauses of that bill you just posted. There isn't any unjustified statments in that bill. The bill simply states if your hear illegally you should go home or else the action that should've been taken a long time ago will be done. No this is not the US trying to beat down Mexico, its just merely taking a law and ENFORCING it, I cannot say that enough.

I did not say anything I said because I'm white... infact I'm not white for the most part I am Hispanic/Latino or whatever you want to call it. My mom speaks fluent spanish yet no one ever assumes she is hispanic. Her mom is Full hispanic and same with her dad. Everyone is blowing it up to be somethign racial when its not. It like saying here in Dallas they are doing the same thing with Public Intoxication, if people are drunk in bars and get too drunk its considered public... so what do the officers do they arrest them because their actions are illegal. So what makes it legal to cross borders without proper identification and papers? .... tell me that ...

[exitspeed]

He has a point... and if they are illegal they do not have "first admendment rights"

Take it to where they are... where they came from do not bring it here if you want a better life do it legally. Don't expect a good outcome from coming into here illegally. Like someone said before its like "stealing a car then protesting its your car"


This is all my point is. It has nothing to do with race here, just the legality of how you came here. This goes for all countries. I can't blame you for wanting to start a better life here. America is the shit. So...Come here legally? GREAT here's a job! Come here illegally. Go back home! Entering the country illegally is not a way to start a "new life". That's like like getting married and fucking the bridesmaid in the bathroom at the reception...:Owned:

It's very simple in my mind.

[Romeyo07]

Right is right, wrong is wrong, and there's no way around it. I think the biggest problem is the lack of education on the issues. They're mad, but do they know why?

[Phlip]

This is all my point is. It has nothing to do with race here, just the legality of how you came here. This goes for all countries. I can't blame you for wanting to start a better life here. America is the shit. So...Come here legally? GREAT here's a job! Come here illegally. Go back home! Entering the country illegally is not a way to start a "new life". That's like like getting married and fucking the bridesmaid in the bathroom at the reception...:Owned:

It's very simple in my mind.
I did that once, does that make it a racial issue?

[exitspeed]

I did that once, does that make it a racial issue?

:hahano: No it would make you an asshole...:D ;)

[khmerguy618]

Exit, you can say its not a matter of race, but if you really look at it, who is this law targeting, they aren't screening anyone from europe, gee why is that? I can sympathize with the whole legality point of view on going through the process but some people don't have time to go through the process (those claiming assylum...when you're fearing for your life in your own country). So they don't have the "consititutional rights that we have here, well don't we all as people have a right to live and strive for a better life for us and our families?

lowviscosity, The bill doesn't only affect the "illegals" it affects those who are in contact with them including doctors, teachers, and other people who have an obligation to help those in need. If you are a doctor and someone is shot are you going to turn them away because they're an "illegal immigrant"? KNowing that they would die if you didn't treat them? Now would you be more likely to turn them away and let them die if you could go to jail for it? It's a method of dehumanizing them and saying the people who aren't "american" aren't as good as us so it's no problem to turn the other cheek.

[Romeyo07]

No, it's not a matter of race, it's a matter of the MAJORITY of the offenders. The majority happens to be Mexicans.

How does it affect doctors and teachers? So no one else will need to be taught or need medical attention? Makes no sense.

[exitspeed]

Exit, you can say its not a matter of race, but if you really look at it, who is this law targeting, they aren't screening anyone from europe, gee why is that? I can sympathize with the whole legality point of view on going through the process but some people don't have time to go through the process (those claiming assylum...when you're fearing for your life in your own country). So they don't have the "consititutional rights that we have here, well don't we all as people have a right to live and strive for a better life for us and our families?



The fact that it targets a certain ethniticity is a factor of the majority of the affendors are coming from Mexico.

And yes "we as a people" whatever race they are have the right to live and strive and better their life. You have that right as long as you do it legally. The "don't have time" is a cop-out and is BS. It's the path of least resistance and is a weak arguement. I want to make more money. So because I want it NOW, I don't have time to wait, should I start selling cocaine? Sure I can, but that would be illegal. Because I choose to live a legal, tax payer, home owners, hard workers, life I am rewarded with delayed gradification.

[redsuns3838]

i dont mind immigrants. thats how america was made. but i dont like illegal ones. if u wanna get over here, then my attitude is do it legallly, or if u wanna do it illegally, dont expect any good treatment and privelages. thats all. oh yeah and in many countries u get shot for crossing the border.

[redsuns3838]

[QUOTE=redsuns3838]i dont mind immigrants. thats how america was made. but i dont like illegal ones. if u wanna get over here, then my attitude is do it legallly, or if u wanna do it illegally thats cool but dont expect any good treatment and privelages. thats all.

[redsuns3838]

[QUOTE=redsuns3838]i dont mind immigrants. thats how america was made. but i dont like illegal ones. if u wanna get over here, then my attitude is do it legallly, or if u wanna do it illegally thats cool but dont expect any good treatment and privelages. thats all.
needless to say half the protest just seems to be a bunch of kids looking for a reason to ditch school...

[khmerguy618]

Exit, you think the "they don't have time" is a weak argument why? because someone who just shot at you is no reason to run away? My point of that statement was in regards to those claiming assylum. I'm not trying to knock on anyone what you think is what you think, but you can't pass judgement on someone elses situation if you can't even take 2 steps in their shoes, and growing up in America (maybe in the suburbs? i don't know what atmosphere you grew up in, so i'll just say for example) there are somethings you aren't exposed to and some things you can't possibly imagine. So how do you know that even getting here is the path of least resistance? It could be the most difficult path ever but they only path they see to better their situation. Sure you could start selling coke, It might even be easy for you to come up in the world, but the bottome line with that investment is that its a big risk, the bigger the risk the better the payout (usually) so wouldn't you think if ur life is on the line you'd risk coming to the US and hope that some way it would pay off?

[mRclARK1]

Illegal is illegal...it's as simple as that. What needs work is the immigration system...the US is the hardest democratic country to immigrate to, but because of it's wealth and freedom, is the top destination. I think the system should be a little easier (not less security, but less "red tape") and cheaper to go through than it is.

But people outside the US need to realize that the US can't "free" and "liberate" everyone, by immigration or any other means. If you are born in Mexico...you are Mexican..it's your country, and if it's within your power, you should do all you can to change it for the better so you can make a life there.

I'm both Canadian and American. Canada's only land border is with the US...but Canada is begining to have a similar problem with illegal immigration from China, particularly here in the west (B.C., Alberta). They come here in boat loads, paying lots of money to get smuggled in, and then work it off for whoever brought them over. Many of them end up involved in crime...and alot of them are found dead, are arrested, or just dissappear. Alot come here legally as well, and there welcome to come. But China has over 1 billion people...they can't all come to Canada (and the US). They need to do something to change their own country. We in North America inherited what our ancestors built when they came here from Europe, and enjoy the riches of it, we also share it with the world (maybe not as much as we should at times). Maybe it's time that some of these people stop running here for a better life and try and create it (I'm sure most of us in America would be glad to help) where they are.

[khmerguy618]

mrclark, actually the first people on the North American shores were from Asia, not Europe, and if you want to talk about ancestors lets talk about the disease and war that Europeans brought over to "civilize" the people who already here. Hey, i'm an American citizen, but i'm also from the 1.5 generation gray area of Asian-American. You guys think its so easy to get over here and get a green card or what not, and that it happens with a snap of fingers, My Dads family was killed all 12 people in his immediat family was killed running from communists because of a war the US started, hmm maybe he had time to file some paperwork while he was dodging bullets, he was barely lucky enough to get out with his own life. So, if you want to go back and forth on this that's fine, but don't try to downplay the severity of what situations are in other countries. My parents were lucky enough to have been sponsored to come to the US btw only after my dads family was murdered and my moms father, eldest brother, and baby sister were murdered, so don't even try to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about when it comes to "not having time".

[revat619]

I'm leaving this thread open because its good discussion, but I'm gonna have to keep an eye on it cuz its leaning on more of a racial issue than it really should be.

The bottom line is, if you come into this country legally, fine. You have rights just like everybody else. You have a say. If you come in illegally, however, you're not covered by our constitution therefore your "citizenship rights" are forfeited. You have no right to complain about anything. You're here illegally. Simple as that.

[exitspeed]

Exit, you think the "they don't have time" is a weak argument why? because someone who just shot at you is no reason to run away? My point of that statement was in regards to those claiming assylum. I'm not trying to knock on anyone what you think is what you think, but you can't pass judgement on someone elses situation if you can't even take 2 steps in their shoes, and growing up in America (maybe in the suburbs? i don't know what atmosphere you grew up in, so i'll just say for example) there are somethings you aren't exposed to and some things you can't possibly imagine. So how do you know that even getting here is the path of least resistance? It could be the most difficult path ever but they only path they see to better their situation. Sure you could start selling coke, It might even be easy for you to come up in the world, but the bottome line with that investment is that its a big risk, the bigger the risk the better the payout (usually) so wouldn't you think if ur life is on the line you'd risk coming to the US and hope that some way it would pay off?


Walk to steps in their shoes :blah: > They are the only ones who have it bad huh? I grew up in horrible conditions, had a very tramatic childhood, no positive role models...Basically everything when i was younger pointed to being POS and a drain on society. I MADE A CHOICE not to allow that to happen. Do whatever it takes for me to be successeful and work my ass off to get out of that life. People struggle. You have to choose if you want to contunue doing so. At the same time deciding if you want to be a positive person in society and do the right thing ie come to America legally. Or you can shoose to continue to live a life of crap and never do better. What your saying is that as long as you better yourself it doesn't matter if you do it illegally. I disagree strongly.

[exitspeed]

I'm leaving this thread open because its good discussion, but I'm gonna have to keep an eye on it cuz its leaning on more of a racial issue than it really should be. The bottom line is, if you come into this country legally, fine. You have rights just like everybody else. You have a say. If you come in illegally, however, you're not covered by our constitution therefore your "citizenship rights" are forfeited. You have no right to complain about anything. You're here illegally. Simple as that.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said in so many words in my first post...

[bp057]

If you love your country so much, screaming "viva mexico" in protest to the country you live in, then why are you here? Have a problem with the way we do things here, you can always go back home.

:werd:

Glad someone said it. Streets full of people waiving flags for mexico...wtf

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by:khmerguy618
mrclark, actually the first people on the North American shores were from Asia, not Europe, and if you want to talk about ancestors lets talk about the disease and war that Europeans brought over to "civilize" the people who already here. Hey, i'm an American citizen, but i'm also from the 1.5 generation gray area of Asian-American. You guys think its so easy to get over here and get a green card or what not, and that it happens with a snap of fingers, My Dads family was killed all 12 people in his immediat family was killed running from communists because of a war the US started, hmm maybe he had time to file some paperwork while he was dodging bullets, he was barely lucky enough to get out with his own life. So, if you want to go back and forth on this that's fine, but don't try to downplay the severity of what situations are in other countries. My parents were lucky enough to have been sponsored to come to the US btw only after my dads family was murdered and my moms father, eldest brother, and baby sister were murdered, so don't even try to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about when it comes to "not having time".

I never said the first people here were from Europe. I know they were from Asia. But when the Europeans came here the world worked a little differently than it does today. The way it worked was if one civilizations army deafeated they others...that was it, everything was theirs. They were the victors. Stop whining about what happend hundreds of years ago, that can't be changed.

Also, you must be kidding me about the disease thing...when the Europeans came here, no one had any concept of germs, viruses or what the cause of sickness was. They still thought disease's were the work of demon's and evil spirits...they had no idea their diseases would affect the natives the way they did.

No, I know it's not easy to get a green card...that's why I said the system needs work...read the whole post next time. I'm glad your dad got over here and survived whatever war your talking about; I'd be the first to say that communism needs to be stopped for good, and we should do all we can to help those who are still oppressed by it.

Also, I'm not downplaying the severity of situations in some countries...I've seen it myself with my own eyes...do not tell me I dont' know about it.

[khmerguy618]

Revat, I agree with you on the fact that if you're here illegally you're here illegally, but why build a wall around mexico when there are plenty of other illegal immigrants coming by boat and plane? Why name it an anti-terrorism act in accordance with illegal immigrants? It's the use of those words in conjunction that give people here a perception of what this bill entails. It is a racist bill just like the "homeland security/patriot act" was. Where it targeted those who were pretty much "white." Did you hear about any bills being passed after the unibomber? any tighter security flying or coming into buildings? Any legislation that said to watch out for someone of this profile? Please do keep an eye on this thread, because it is being downplayed for a lot less that what it really is.

Exit, horible conditions? In the US where its possible to at least be somewhat upwardly mobile, how about someplace say like Iran or Iraq? Once in poverty in the middle east you're stuck there and your kids are stuck there. Yeah people have a choice, and some of them choose to come here, i'm not by any means saying it's right the way they do, and if you're concerened about "rights and blah blah blah" then like someone said, we make more/less stringent immigration standards, but as with any case there are some conditions that will vary, especially the reason, i work in a restaurant, and the kitchen is predominently Mexicans (who are here legally) they just want to save some money and go back to mexico with their families.

romey, it affects doctors and educators because they are mre than likely to lend a hand to those in need, if you read the whole bill, it says that those who give aid or are associated with illegal immigrants are suject to a minimum of 30days to 3years in jail.

[khmerguy618]

mrclark,

Hey no worries brah history is history, but don't make excuses like "oh they didn't know what germs were" well i'm sure that they didn't know but the Europeans sure as hell knew that it would affect them, look up Pizzaro or Cortez, they used germ warfare to conquer the natives, and you think that people who came after them didn't know about it?

The severity of people situations can't possibly be understood completely unless you've been in them, And i've only a small understanding of them myself, i'm not saying you know any more or less but what i do know from what i've been exposed to is that if you came from say the shits in a 3rd world country living in the shits in the US isn't that bad comparatively.

You can't keep someone from doing something if they really want to do it. If their life is the shits where they're from they'll find a way here one way or another. I just think it's a waste of time and hard earned money to pay to have a 700 mile wall built with armed guards patroling it 24/7.

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by:khmerguy618
mrclark,

Hey no worries brah history is history, but don't make excuses like "oh they didn't know what germs were" well i'm sure that they didn't know but the Europeans sure as hell knew that it would affect them, look up Pizzaro or Cortez, they used germ warfare to conquer the natives, and you think that people who came after them didn't know about it?

The severity of people situations can't possibly be understood completely unless you've been in them, And i've only a small understanding of them myself, i'm not saying you know any more or less but what i do know from what i've been exposed to is that if you came from say the shits in a 3rd world country living in the shits in the US isn't that bad comparatively.

How could someone use germ warfare if they don't know what germs are? They can't, not intentionally anyway, and that's what happend. It had they affects but their was no intentional actions. By the way, germs were not even discovered until the 1800's. Your entitled to your belief, but history only happend one way, and I don't agree with your version of it. Nothing against you, we will just have to agree to disagree I guess.

I agree that the severity of some people's situations cannot be understood unless you've lived it. I have never lived in a junkyard, but I have seen people who do and worked alongside them. I have never lived somewhere where there was no food, no water, no work (sometimes wars being fought) and people dying in the streets...but I've seen it and worked in it and know what the future their looks like, and I've become close friends with people who still live it every day. So yes, I'm all for helping these people...but allowing, encouraging, or tolerating illegal immigration is not the answer.

[exitspeed]

khmerguy618: I think the point that your missing here is that noone is arguing the fact that they should be able to better themselves. I think that has been said 50 times already. What we don't agree with is that they come here under illegal circumstances. I don't understand what is so hard to comprehend.

[Romeyo07]

The b.s. assylum call is well called IMO. If you're running from something and you need to leave immediately, you probably brought it upon yourself. Why isn't EVERYONE else running with you.

[khmerguy618]

Mr. clark
"germs' weren't discovered until the 1800's, but pizzarro and cortez saw that the natives weren't immune to the disease they brought over and exposed them to em and then used that along with unifying some of the natives surround enemies to conquer them. They may not have had a label for it then, but they knew what they were doing.

Exit
I understand what you mean when you say if they're here illegally then thats the bottom line, but maybe you don't see that my point is that this is directed towards people of color not white folks.

Do you think they will question a white illegal immigrants status the same as say someone who looks latino walking down the street? And who is going to enforce it? The police? "i stopped you because you fit the profile of an illegal immigrant" oh wait some people don't have to worry because their skin lacks melanin.

[khmerguy618]

These are just opinions and viewpoints, thank you guys for being honest in what you believe in. Glad we can discuss this in a civilized manner

Romey, Hey if you think assylum is BS thas fine, but how do you know not everyone and running and only a handful can make it? I'd say 1 out of 12 people in a family is a pretty low percentage of people who made it during a war.

Some people can fake the funk about being here on assylum, but many are valid, my coworker was almost ripped off his bike in indonesia during the riots where they targeted people who look chinese. He just got assylum and he has been here for a couple of years now, and please don't think it's all shits and giggles when you get assylum, because you can't see your family thats over there. You're here in the US and can't go back (well u ran for a reason but still home is home right?)

[Romeyo07]

AND! So what. I mean I'm a fellow hispanic, but when I'm at the ATM I'd be more concerned if there was a latino behind me rather a white guy. Let them question the hispanic. If he can prove himself, then the cop will let him go.

What does that have to do with being illegally here. More often than not, profiling will work.

[exitspeed]

[QUOTE=khmerguy618]
Exit
I understand what you mean when you say if they're here illegally then thats the bottom line, but maybe you don't see that my point is that this is directed towards people of color not white folks.

[QUOTE]

Well that's like critisizing Jennie Craig for targeting fat people. The reason it's directed towards them is because they are the #1 problem/offender statistcally.

[Romeyo07]

+1 exitspeed

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: khmerguy618
"germs' weren't discovered until the 1800's, but pizzarro and cortez saw that the natives weren't immune to the disease they brought over and exposed them to em and then used that along with unifying some of the natives surround enemies to conquer them. They may not have had a label for it then, but they knew what they were doing.

You keep talking about it like they knew what diseases were. No one in the world at the time had a concept of "disease" or "immunity" as we do. They didn't know the human body could get "sick" or "infected" like we think of it today. Most of the Christian European world at the time believed that "plagues" were a result of evil spirits, demons, curses or punishments from God. Come on, they didn't run around coughing on the natives to make them sick, they didn't even know that a disease was a biological infection within their body that they could pass to others. They believed the natives were suffering these plagues because of their pagan practices, human sacrifices and (in the minds of the spanish chrisitians) devil worship. They had no concept of a communicable disease and/or immunity to a disease, therefore they could not have infected the natives intentionally. Anyway, this is getting way off topic so I'm done on this point.

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: exitspeed
Well that's like critisizing Jennie Craig for targeting fat people. The reason it's directed towards them is because they are the #1 problem/offender statistcally.

Exactly. It's the exact same thing as focusing on muslims as far as terrorism is concerned. If your problem tends to be with a particular demographic...it's completely reasonable they would be subject to more scrutiny. It's NOT fair, but when was the world a fair place?

[lowviscosity]

Exit, you can say its not a matter of race, but if you really look at it, who is this law targeting, they aren't screening anyone from europe, gee why is that? I can sympathize with the whole legality point of view on going through the process but some people don't have time to go through the process (those claiming assylum...when you're fearing for your life in your own country). So they don't have the "consititutional rights that we have here, well don't we all as people have a right to live and strive for a better life for us and our families?

lowviscosity, The bill doesn't only affect the "illegals" it affects those who are in contact with them including doctors, teachers, and other people who have an obligation to help those in need. If you are a doctor and someone is shot are you going to turn them away because they're an "illegal immigrant"? KNowing that they would die if you didn't treat them? Now would you be more likely to turn them away and let them die if you could go to jail for it? It's a method of dehumanizing them and saying the people who aren't "american" aren't as good as us so it's no problem to turn the other cheek.

This is why they are going through the bill and re-writing different parts. And there is so much debate over what is going on. I don't think we should "de-humanize" anyone, but this is a small situation to whats really going on. You bring up a doctor... do you have any more examples of "de-humanizing"? The fact is they would go to jail for one being illegal, also they would probably get proper treatment knowing how our jail systems work. They would be treated as a crimanal which is respectable to what they have done.

Oh and about your Europe comment... like someone stated above they aren't the number one offenders of this law infact they can't easily step across the border. Mainly they come from planes and in order to come over here on a plane you will need documentation stating what you are here for (i.e. passport)
By all means i'm not saying it is just hispanics but the majority (look at the numbers) are of the race.

[DRavenS13]

The only reason hispanics get the finger pointed at them more is because it IS a lot easier to jump over an imaginary line/wall/cross a river than it is to cross an ocean. But that's not to say that people overseas don't get here illegally either. Hispanics are just targeted more because there's more of us here. How many Asians do you think come over on cargo ships? They always fit at least 200 of them into those things, and half of them come dead. Haha, even Muslims come over here trying to pass as Hispanics because it's easier to blend.

[dannyboi]

The only reason hispanics get the finger pointed at them more is because it IS a lot easier to jump over an imaginary line/wall/cross a river than it is to cross an ocean. But that's not to say that people overseas don't get here illegally either. Hispanics are just targeted more because there's more of us here. How many Asians do you think come over on cargo ships? They always fit at least 200 of them into those things, and half of them come dead. Haha, even Muslims come over here trying to pass as Hispanics because it's easier to blend.

No shit, genious... that's kinda the whole point. But let me ask you something... when was the last time an illegal asian stole something, did a hit and run, or forced american kids to sit in a fucking hallway for class because the whole school is overcrowded?

And atleast FOBs try to learn english. When i was in high school, the mexican immigrant kids would be speaking spanish and the chinese kids would carry around english translation books and pocket electric translators.

[hitman]

He has a point... and if they are illegal they do not have "first admendment rights"

Take it to where they are... where they came from do not bring it here if you want a better life do it legally. Don't expect a good outcome from coming into here illegally. Like someone said before its like "stealing a car then protesting its your car"


actually they do, just like they under the rules of our laws, our laws protect them as well.

[infinitexsound]

all of u guys who are bitching about this crap are pitiful.....

[TAMTANIUM]

No shit, genious... that's kinda the whole point. But let me ask you something... when was the last time an illegal asian stole something, did a hit and run, or forced american kids to sit in a fucking hallway for class because the whole school is overcrowded?

And atleast FOBs try to learn english. When i was in high school, the mexican immigrant kids would be speaking spanish and the chinese kids would carry around english translation books and pocket electric translators.

+1 you said it all right.

[DoriftoPnoy]

Man what I don't understand is that those kids have to go out and walk onto the fuckin freeway. It's like "KILL ME NOW IM ILLEGAL". Those kids are just giving a reason why shouldn't let any more stupid people like that in this country. What's wrong with mexico anyways? It's not like they're under a dictatorship.

[4thHorse]

What a dumb statement. There are lazy white people, lazy black people, lazy asian people, lazy hispanic people. Whether some one is lazy and doesn't work has nothing to do with skin color. That's like saying all *blank* people are racist...racism, laziness and many other problems permeate every ethnic group in existence. Humanity is flawed...get used to it.[/QUOTE]


That was my point, never did I say any such thing. It was a reply to someone else.:duh:

[Romeyo07]

Hispanics are known to be lazy, it's in our genes, that's why there's a stereotype for it.

Maybe the hispanics out west are different from the east coast. The hispanics I went to school with spoke Spanglish (english and spanish together). They learned english and talked spanish when they couldn't figure how to say it in english. For the most part, out here that hasn't been an issue.

[lowviscosity]

all of u guys who are bitching about this crap are pitiful.....
And the people that don't give a f*ck about whats going on in their country are even more pitiful. This is exactly why it ended up like this because someone didn't give a rats a$$ about our borders.

[exitspeed]

I don't think this should turn into a a racial thing guys. The debate has been relatively OK with just a few unappropriate comments.

Let's not get this locked.

[Tenchuu]

And the people that don't give a f*ck about whats going on in their country are even more pitiful. This is exactly why it ended up like this because someone didn't give a rats a$$ about our borders.

Sometimes I make smaller page borders when i am printing. Does that lead to illeagal immigration and mean that i don;t give a rats a$$ about borders??

[Romeyo07]

Sometimes I make smaller page borders when i am printing. Does that lead to illeagal immigration and mean that i don;t give a rats a$$ about borders??

huh? :duh: If you say so

[Tenchuu]

sorry, gues it wasn't as funny as i hoped. just trying to lighten up the conversation a bit.

[infinitexsound]

And the people that don't give a f*ck about whats going on in their country are even more pitiful. This is exactly why it ended up like this because someone didn't give a rats a$$ about our borders.
i find that hard to believe.... and to let u know i am also an immigrant...

[DRavenS13]

It shouldn't be a debate about race, because honestly, immgration laws affect every race, no matter where they come from, generally. But you have to admit- the fact that they only want to make the security tighter at the Mexican border is kinda on the biased side. They make it seem like Mexico is the only way to get in. What about the Canadian Border? Why don't they make a huge wall up there? I'm sure there are lots of people that get in thru Canada, I mean, people manage to bring cheaper meds from there with no problem, right?

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: DRavenS13
It shouldn't be a debate about race, because honestly, immgration laws affect every race, no matter where they come from, generally. But you have to admit- the fact that they only want to make the security tighter at the Mexican border is kinda on the biased side. They make it seem like Mexico is the only way to get in. What about the Canadian Border? Why don't they make a huge wall up there? I'm sure there are lots of people that get in thru Canada, I mean, people manage to bring cheaper meds from there with no problem, right?

The reason the security is going to be tighter only on the Mexican border is because that is where the vast majority of the problem is. There is very little illegal immigration into the US from Canada, mainly because Canada has the same wealth and standard of living as the US. Also, getting into Canada used to be pretty easy (still is if your an American citizen), but ever since 9/11 the immigration security has gotten quite a bit tighter.

There is actually alot of talk about integrating the US-Canadian border security even more, so US-Canadian citizens can travel easily between the 2 countries, while keeping illegals and terrorists out of both. I have lived in both countries, and I'm sure that if it became a problem at the US-Canada border...both sides would try to tighten it up pretty quick, considering how big it is.

[Romeyo07]

I thought this was a funny political cartoon
http://www.investors.com/images/editimg/ramirez/toon032906.gif

[lowviscosity]

I thought this was a funny political cartoon
http://www.investors.com/images/editimg/ramirez/toon032906.gif
I saw so much of that April 9th downtown.. all mexican flags

[TOMKAIRA93]

WOW!!!! UOOFFF....After reading all the posts of this thread I don't think I have energy to write.

First, I'm an immigrant myself, from Panama. You don't hear about us cause it's really no different there (Panama) then it is in the U.S.A. with the exception of salarays. In order for you to make good money you have to be an executive or something at bank or know somoene that can hook you up with a good job working for the government. I say this because that's one of the reasons some of us move to the U.S.A, so we don't have to deal with all that crap. I'm a full U.S. citizen and I'm currently serving in the US Air Force stationed in Iraq (right now).:( I was never poor, thank God, but I still wanted to come to the US to have a different experience and see what I could do. Well, ever since I joined the military I've done everything I could to better myself, i.e.; go to college, learn new skills, etc...I have accoplished that plus some, so am ready to move on.

Second, I've notice how some people don't understand that the whole reasoning behind this law is so they can say or perhaps somehow relase some of that guilt for what happen in 9/11. All they need to do is tighten up the boarders (canada, mexico and miami for island drifters) and that should cut down the problem. Why spend tax payers dollars trying to search and punish those that are already in country? I mean, lets be honest...the good illegal immigrants will continue to do good things and eventually find the way to become legal...the bad seeds will just find ways to get in trouble, killed, so they'll cancel out eventually...slowly but surely. And there's also some of you that think they need to be jailed....come one, that's tax payers dollars, too, the same for deporting them. greyhounds and plane rides cost $$.

Third, I truly beleive that no race is better then the other. It's a matter of character and perseverance in what you do. If you can't get a job somewhere, try the next place and then the other until you find one. While in the military I've worked at Burger King (needed more cash to hit spring brake), I've also caddied at PGA tour tournaments (lots of money there), so I've done lots of other things outside of the military. It's all about what you want in life and where you want to be later in life.

Fourth, I don't agree with people demanding, regardless of race, for benefits if they don't deserve it. I think they should keep doing what they are doing and find ways to make ends meet. There are many ways of making legal money in this country. I'm serious!!! I think some people are just ashame to do certain things, hell...if its paying your bills that's all you've got to worry about.

Fifth, Please don't call anyone lazy just because you are...I've seen White, Black, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Panamenia, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino people that are lazy as hell. Going back to what I said earlier, it's all in your character and what you want in life. I want the best for my wife and two kids, so I'm striving to finish my Masters Degree by next year, get out the military and get me a nice paying job. The military beleive it or not pays OK if you live overseas, but I'm not digging deploying for 6 month at a time...can't be away from my family that long.

Finally, I just want to thank all of you that have taken the time to write and read this whole thread as it shows there are pople out there that care about other things aside from cars. I'm a proud, humble servant of this country and I wish the best to all those in need here in the US, legal or illegal, but it's impossible to fix all of our problems when we're so busy trying to fix the rest of the world.

Take care everyone
:o