What we look for in a shop (vendors should read this)

[g6civcx]

Mods, I didn't find a thread to piggy-back on and I knew not to put in the reviews forum. Plus some of you had that policy of no unauthorised contact without prior approval. So prune/move/lock/delete this thread as appropriate. I didn't know where else to put it.
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I wanted to start this thread after reading horror stories and praise about vendors in the reviews forum. I wanted to comment on things I would like to see from a vendor. Please add your comments as appropriate. Some of this may apply to private transactions as well.

I would like to have things clearly placed on the Web site. Your contact information should be easily located within a few seconds. Your email and phone (if you do phone sales) should be visible. Sounds stupid but there have been sites I had to dig around for minutes to find a phone number.

Please please post as many pictures as possible under the product description. It will pre-empt a lot of the faq's you get. It will save you the frustration from having to answer the same questions over and over, and it saves us time.

Please post detailed installation instructions if possible. Since aftermarket parts are slightly different from OEM specs, we won't know how to install it. Plus even if we paid someone to install it, it would be very beneficial to see what is involved during installation so we may plan accordingly.

Please answer your email in a timely manner. I know you get a lot of emails, but it's your job. I correspond with thousands of people daily because it's my job. If I can do it, you can do it. Just a few sentences is fine. You can skip the pleasantry. Just give me the info I need. Same with phone. Make sure somebody picks up the phone during your business hours.

Post your business hours. If you want to take lunch, close for a few hours. I don't mind. I just want to know when you're there and not there.

Please try to treat every customer as a separate entity. I hate getting yelled at for asking a simple question because the customer before me was retarded. Plus you're in the people business. If they knew what they were doing, they don't need you. They can simply order from your supplier and cut you out of your profits.

Please be realistic about your timeline. I don't mind waiting. I actually counted on it. It doesn't matter how long I have to wait. Your estimate just has to be accurate. That way we can plan our lives around your estimate. Don't say it'll be here next week because you're afraid we'll leave if you say it'll really be here next month. Just say it'll be here whenever, or if you don't know just say so. Also update us if there are changes. Being delayed isn't a problem. Being kept in the dark is.

Please provide tracking information. Some of us live in unsecure locations, and need to know when packages will be arriving.

And most importantly, please please please listen to what the customer wants. Too often vendors sell what they want to sell, regardless of what the customer needs. When I say, "hold boost and make sure a/f is reliable for endurance racing," and you say, "i'll turn up boost +5 psi and get you 20bhp," there is a problem. I got upset because I was trying to build a roadracing car, and he was trying to build a dyno queen to promote his business.

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I have so many horror stories it's not even funny. I made this thread so vendors can see what we all go through. It's a tough business, but I think if they try hard they can do a good job.

[DrtyRat]

+999999999 on what you said...I have recently started doing business w/a company from this site and for the most part he has hit on all of your request, and b/c of this I will do as much business a possible w/said company. Having been in the cust. service business for the past 13yrs.(read retail) it is very important that shops pay attention to these suggestions. The ease at which a cust. can do business w/you(read easy website navigation) will often determine if they do business w/you, its called self-service w/service available. Now, in reality not all cust. are as informed/patient as myself and g6civcx when it comes to understanding how things work when it comes to getting products and the wait time sometime associated w/these products. However, nothing is more important than being upfront and honest w/your cust when it comes to these things. Trust me when I tell you that not all cust. are anywhere close to being reasonable when it comes to ANYTHING but, like stated above, that comes w/the territory. I encourage others, including shops to chime in w/some constructive feedback for this thread:x: :x: :x:

[nismeaux]

Please please post as many pictures as possible under the product description. It will pre-empt a lot of the faq's you get. It will save you the frustration from having to answer the same questions over and over, and it saves us time.


I'd like to add to this, if you sell, say, a single brand of coilovers, but for 50 or so different car models, try not to put the exact same picture for each model. It'd be nice to see pictures of the coilovers for your actual car, not a picture of, say, EK Civic coilovers next to the item description for all the other cars.

[m072514]

ill add the other +1

boo on shady businesses! ive had more than a few run-ins!

[bangoo man]

I'd like to add to this, if you sell, say, a single brand of coilovers, but for 50 or so different car models, try not to put the exact same picture for each model. It'd be nice to see pictures of the coilovers for your actual car, not a picture of, say, EK Civic coilovers next to the item description for all the other cars.

As much as this would be nice to see, I think it would be almost too time consuming to be worth it for the web designer... How many shops carry one brand of coilover? and How many shops carry products for just one car? We're talking hundreds, almost thousands of pictures. No hate here, just being realistic.

But +1 for this thread. I think there are certain businesses that this thread describes which is the main reason they are doing so well, at least within the zilvia community.

[nismeaux]

As much as this would be nice to see, I think it would be almost too time consuming to be worth it for the web designer... How many shops carry one brand of coilover? and How many shops carry products for just one car? We're talking hundreds, almost thousands of pictures. No hate here, just being realistic.

But +1 for this thread. I think there are certain businesses that this thread describes which is the main reason they are doing so well, at least within the zilvia community.

You're right about that, but it wouldn't take much effort to take a couple snaps of the parts as they come in or go out the door. That way, there would be pictures of the more popular applications before too long. It would be nice to be able to see the construction of something like a coilover before buying it, especially with newer products.

[g6civcx]

As much as this would be nice to see, I think it would be almost too time consuming to be worth it for the web designer... How many shops carry one brand of coilover? and How many shops carry products for just one car? We're talking hundreds, almost thousands of pictures. No hate here, just being realistic.


I understand, but for someone who makes a living building Web pages, it's not a big deal to snap a couple of pictures and slap them on the product description page. It's just that vendors don't spend time building their Web page, which is exactly where we go to shop. This is the bigger problem, and vendors don't want to invest the time and resources into building their main marketing device: their Web site.

Everybody knows profit margins are higher for parts sale, but pretty much all the shops just want to play with cars. They don't really value their mail order business that much. They just want us to give them our money and shut up about it.

[Andrew Bohan]

I understand, but for someone who makes a living building Web pages, it's not a big deal to snap a couple of pictures and slap them on the product description page.

It is a problem if they don't keep a lot of stock. other than that I agree that there should be pictures for all the different applications

[A Spec Products]

I understand, but for someone who makes a living building Web pages, it's not a big deal to snap a couple of pictures and slap them on the product description page. It's just that vendors don't spend time building their Web page, which is exactly where we go to shop. This is the bigger problem, and vendors don't want to invest the time and resources into building their main marketing device: their Web site.

Everybody knows profit margins are higher for parts sale, but pretty much all the shops just want to play with cars. They don't really value their mail order business that much. They just want us to give them our money and shut up about it.

Let's not let a couple rotten apples spoil the whole bunch.

As a vendor, I think the majority of us give 110%, but sometimes there is just too much work to do in very little time. To that you might say "just hire more workers" but its really not that simple, especially in states like CA where Workers Comp is ridiculous, on top of just raising the overhead cost. Obviously, if overhead increases, then price increases, and then the customer hurts. It's a catch 22 for sure.

I too wish that there could be individual pictures of each item, but that's a pretty great undertaking. I mean look at the manufacturers for example, a lot of suspension companies on their OWN website use one picture only, so imagine a company who sells 5 different suspension lines trying to take a picture of each coilover and posting them up. That's a LOT of work, and while trying to sound as non-excuseish as possible, a very huge (and somewhat impossible) undertaking.

In terms of profit margins, I wouldn't say that margins are very great these days, especially with eBay and internet houses (people that work out of their dorm/garage/dropship). It hurts the market and when companies that make $5 / item just for the sake of doing so, it just turns everything sour (long term). Sure, customers win, but the market loses in the long run.

I can understand that as a consumer you search for the best deal possible, but at the end of the day, you need to remember that you are in control of the market just as much as the seller is. I think sometimes customers think that sellers are just out to get them, and often devalue the cost of labor and effort. A lot of vendors bust their butts and its disheartening when someone goes elsewhere or lowballs just to save an extra $5. Its a two way street, and by supporting legitimate businesses and quality products you are securing the future of the market.

One of my favorite quotes is "cheap is never good, and good is never cheap." That being said, just remember that as a customer there is more to it than just dollars and sense. Pay money for good SERVICE and good PRODUCT, and you'll be happier and better off in the long run.

[knowleqe]

^spoken like a champ

[NemeGuero]

Ok, so the picture thing wasn't the main point. Did anyone else catch that?
Here's the cliff-notes:
He's asking for GOOD BUSINESS ETHICS. No more, no less.

Aspec, we don't doubt you do great service, but lets not take away from the big issue of his post. (not to bash you, just so other's reading don't miss the OTHER important points.)

Bra-fuckin'-vo, sir, Bravo.

[Slidin240Wayz]

The topics should be highlighted and underlined.
example:
Customer Service
Phone calls should be ...

Price Matching Products
This should be suitable to price match...

If you want sellers to take this serious, make the description clear and succinct for clarity reasons.

Wishing you all the best,
Carlos Doria

[NemeGuero]

I disagree. People can read. It's all there.

[Andrew Bohan]

web sites should be designed so the user has to do as little thinking as possible. the user is there to quickly find information and maybe even buy something, not to play guessing games and go on a treasure hunt.. everything on a site should be obvious what it is and things should be in obvious places. the user should never have to wonder where things are or what things are or where they will go if they follow some link. this all sounds like common sense but it's ignored all the time.

[ManoNegra]

I had written a long post but Zivia (again) let me down. Cliff notes:

- Dont' have kids hang around. Nobody wants to drop their cars at a High School hangout. Also threat your employees right so that they won't have to resort to alternative means to supplement their incomes.

- Dont' advertise shit you don't have. At least let people know there'll be wait before taking their money.

- Be honest. If you make a mistake admit to it and go out of your way to rectify the issue. You'll get my business again in the future.

- Open at least one day on the weekend. We all know this is when events usually happent but it if you're in it for the customre realize that most of us have full time jobs and can't come to your shop on week days. I personally hate having items shipped that I could have easily picked up on Sat. morning.

- Don't bad mouth the competition. Is tacky and it'll come to bite you in the ass. Voice your opinion and give advice but keep it positive.

- I know this would be difficult to implement for various reasons but I'd like to be able to contact some of your former costumers and pick your brains. This part of the reason I love the feedback section here. Kudos to whomever thought that up.

- Don't experiment on customers cars. If you don't know how to do somethingk, admit it. Dont' look at it like an oppportunity to teach yourself something.

[A Spec Products]

Aspec, we don't doubt you do great service, but lets not take away from the big issue of his post. (not to bash you, just so other's reading don't miss the OTHER important points.)

Bra-fuckin'-vo, sir, Bravo.

Oh for sure, the post is/has very many good points, no doubting that. I wasn't defending myself in particular but rather speaking from a vendor's standpoint. Its good to see customers taking a proactive approach to improving the industry.

As far as price matching goes, that's a whole nother can o worms :)

[pignosecoupe]

As far as pictures of the items for sale...

I understand having limited images of the product, but I have to draw the line HERE (http://www.revivedracing.com/revived_store/all_product_info.php?pName=gt-87mm-sr20det-piston-kit-nissan-240-sx-siliva-19892002)

If you are going to post an image with a product, make sure it is atleast a picture that matches the product described.

6 cyl sr20det? hmm. I can imagine someone getting angry because they only for enough parts for cyl.

[zze86]

I certainly appreciate this thread being a new business and all so I thank you for the advice.

Customer service is one of my top priorities. I know how much of a PITA it is when you're trying to buy something, trying to give them some of your hard earned $$$ and they act like they don't want your business by not answering. It makes a buyer feel not very important at all...

But then with the start of my small business here I see how hard it is on this end as well. You've got 40 billion things going on all at once. Currently on my agenda I have to take care of my customer's orders, custom work for local customers, promote and try to create more business, finish my website (I haven't even finished my logo yet!), R&D and all the paperwork associated with the business.

As for the profit margin I concur with A-Spec that there is NOT as much profit as people beleive in the parts business. The only reason why I can afford to have quit my job and focus on this business is because of the custom work that I do.

At the end of the day I make about as much as I do working at my old job but I put in probably twice as much work and energy doing this. But I do it because I love it, I love taking a peice of metal and making it super shiny, or finding a nice cheap effective way of making something better/prettier.

No matter how many directions I get pulled in though, customers wil always come first. There is no way I could do what I do without my customers. I may not answer emails right away or you may get my voicemail but I will at least get back to you by the end of the day.

Business hours added to sig ;)

[REDSH!FT]

Oh Ken, you so crazy haha...I love it when you do these rant threads!

But to be honest with you, for us at least, we can make much more money off of labor than parts sales! Especially when competing with these goddamn Ebay retailers! They really kill our profit margins like you wouldn't believe...I think some people have a skewed perception of what "dealer cost" really is...Many times, Ebay prices are lower than what I can get it for! It's just a gamble on whether or not you're getting the real deal from some of those shysters.




web sites should be designed so the user has to do as little thinking as possible

I agree with this 200%. Unfortunately, again, it is easier said than done. I have had countless arguments about what I think our website should be like but it can't just be changed just like that. Believe it or not there is alot of programming behind a website on how it operates and to slim it down means to re-write the code for it!

[NemeGuero]

Oh for sure, the post is/has very many good points, no doubting that. I wasn't defending myself in particular but rather speaking from a vendor's standpoint. Its good to see customers taking a proactive approach to improving the industry.

As far as price matching goes, that's a whole nother can o worms :)

Glad you didn't take offense. ;)

[Andrew Bohan]

Believe it or not there is alot of programming behind a website on how it operates and to slim it down means to re-write the code for it!

oh i believe it. i've been doing web sites for almost 10 years. i was pro for a while, and i still do it on the side. i've got about 7 sites i'm actively maintaining now.

my current job is software QA, and my web design experience really comes in handy. i'm constantly finding usability issues.

[HootAuto]

Ian, you hit the nail on the head....I have been working with a web designer for almost 2 weeks to get a website up, and I only have half of the products finished (which still isn't a lot)!! There is WAY more than people think, I was surprised how much work it would be!!

I know you all know this but there have been a lot of scams on Ebay as of late, especially with auto parts. More and more people tell me how they got screwed by _________ on ebay.

Bottom line is this...people do business with people they trust and offer a good service at a fair price. Ebay is going down the tubes, nobody focuses on service, only price.

Just my 2 cents, flame me if I'm wrong!!

[TheWolf]

This is a great thread from the professional customer standpoint but I think A spec can agree and most anyone who's ever worked sales. For every 10+ calls you get. There's about 1 sale. The rest are kids pricing stuff or trying to pricematch ebay. Or in general looking for info because they are to lazy to search and are just wasting time. If someone is selling a greddy profec bspec2 on fleabay for $135 + 85 S&H. No I'm not gonna price match the $135 and let you local pickup. Also anyone with a group buy and a pulse can practically get wholesale accounts from many of these companies today. The fact of the matter is. Many times customers arn't worth the time they waste. Yes that's right. Lets be honest. Say you call my 800# and ask me about some tein coilovers for your 1998 whatchamacallit. Total time giving info and explaining how they're better than crappy megan racing ones blah blah blabh on the phone is 20+ mins. if I'm getting 10 an hour it cost the company around $5 to field your question between the 800 charge and my time. Then you call back to order. Another 10min phone call. Retail they might be $1300 but interweb price is closer to $950. The problem is that I probably pay $850 from tein for them. (assuming 35% discount) So I've made a sale for $950. and there's $100 in profit in it.. wewt. but wait. There's about $9-10 in answering the phone crap between 800# price and labor. There's atleast another 30 minutes between writing up the invoice, ordering the part or boxing it up, printing out a UPS label, and emailing tracking # to customer. (customer support and info are key right?) So we're upto around $15+ in just labor and phone charges to take the order. Oh and he paid with a visa card. That's cool. Quick easy. $23.75 in Fees for that $950 order. (2.5%) We're upto $35 of our $100 is wasted in just the order phase. Let alone explaining the install and supporting the product later on, dealing with returns, changed minds, warranty work, plus the other 9 people that wasted our time trying to get some price for some queer HKS JDM only part they they read about in super street or my favorite "how much is built engine for my car?" questions While $65 maybe big to alot of people. It's nothing in business and was probably spent answer other questions. So customers need to understand when you try and chissle us because someone is doing a group buy on x forum and selling the same part for $30-40 less. There's no profit left in it for the retailer. It's annoying because margins are already tight because of the unstructured distribution network many companies allow and you're costing the company money and wasting our time. Mostly at fault is these new companies with their low buy in rates and low yearly account requirements. FYI it takes $1500/year in Megan racing crap to get wharehouse pricing but it avg's about 5k per product line per year if you want direct. Not that these companies have been enforcing these rules of late. Many give them out and "sponsorship". Needless customer demand for cheaper prices has turned the parts industry into a bunch of fly by night outfits that run on startup capital and flounder 6 months later when the money is spent. Last note. After working in sales I don't want to hear about what you've done or gonna do or have in hand doing to your car. If you want a part then order it. If not then don't. The complete unabridged history of your project car and what a great deal it was is not something that I'm interested in.

[kognition]

Good thread!
Airing out both sides brings some key things to light. As sole owner of a small manufacturing company, i design, finance, market, produce parts, do sales, do my own websites, and in the midst of all that... try to make a profit and hopefully expand the product line and put a race car together. Its a hard fucking juggle! Excuse my french.

I have seen shops who have just utter contempt for their customers, and shops
that do not respond to emails etc etc. I could go on. But i think gravity usually takes care of those businesses. Yes there are guys working out of their dorms and garages. I came from there, and slaved my ass off to get where i am now. And now i have Nissan dealers buying my parts.

I also think there is a distinct difference in customer service when it comes to reputable speed shops vs the importers bringing in container loads of parts. You usually get what you pay for. Speed shops have suffered a great deal because of the likes of Ebay. But who said it was supposed to be brick and mortar forever? I ship at least one part a day to some obscure location outside of the states. The internet has allowed my business to take on an international presence. So it is very important that we treat everyone who calls us with the respect they deserve. :bow:

[blu808]

i agree with you guys, if your a shop you should tell it like it is, go the extra mile so that your customers will come back, and spread the word.

I think people will be happy with our shop.

[zze86]

The Wolf - wow, you sound awful bitter about some of these things, maybe you should think about changing business/carrers? I'm not trying to be a [email protected]$$, it's just when I started this I made up my mind that if I ever started hating it or got bitter about it (or can't make money ;) ), I'd quit and go back to work. It sucks working at a job you hate, it'd suck even more to OWN a job you hate...

though I agree with what you said about 1 of 10 calls you get 1 sale thing I'm surprised at how passive this industry is in regards to some sales tactics. Take for example, when I buy parts from a company, never once have I received a phone call, letter, or follow-up of any kind to see if I had any questions, comments. Or maybe they started coming out with a new product line that complimented a part I bought from them, never heard a word.

Now this is where I don't agree with you though. Megan Racing's products I find are very good quality for the money. Their exhaust systems are top notch, there are slight fitment problems from time to time but all the systems I've installed have been pretty much pain free. The welds are excellent with very little discoloration, the flanges thick, very good craftsmanship IMO. The O2 housings are the only parts I really question since they tend to be on the thin side but at the price there's nothing that can compete with it. I've had their complete exhaust lineup on my evo for almost a year, rain/snow/drive-thru car washes and neither the manifold nor the O2 has cracked on me and obviously the Evo has that vent right over those components. The coilovers are top notch, anybody who has seen them would be impressed with their quality-then you mention the price and their jaw drops. Their gauges work perfectly fine as well (although I would prefer one where you could change the bulb, but it's LED so should last fairly long). I've hooked up the MR, Defi, and VDO oil pressure/oil temp units to my car and they've all read basically the same. Boost gauges within 2psi of each other. I do AGREE that Megan Racng needs to start enforcing their rules though and maybe require a deeper buy in. There are vendors out that are selling the coilovers for well below MR's minimum sale price, $900.

I like hearing my customer ideas, not only can I help them in choosing parts or how to do things but I usually learn things and sometimes it even gives me ideas for a new product after all I'm not the smartest person in the world...

To some companies it's all about the money, then there are some of us who just enjoy what they do.

[g6civcx]

To the person who suggested I ordered stuff into categories, I did that, but thought it was too confusing so I just made a stream-of-consciousness. People will be adding thoughts and the paragraphs are short enough that you can read through them. Plus if you wanted a formal letter this thread would not be it. It's just here for discussion.
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Well, I'm glad the response is positive on all sides. I think we on the whole understand more about the innerworkings than most shop owners give us credit for. Everybody know Ebay is going for price, but I personally gladly pay the premium for customer service and tuning expertise. I'm not just buying a part; I want the service as well and would pay extra for it.

I hear you about stupid kids calling and asking about crap instead of doing their homework. I do that sometimes as well, but the information somebody who has done their homework asks for is different than the information a deadbeat buyer asks for.

I would pay $60 an hour for someone to just sit down with me and answer my questions. I think that's the only way to get good information by giving them a financial incentive to talk to us.

[kognition]

Good point on the customer follow up tip. None of my dealers do that to my knowledge.

Ebay has its good points and bad points. For my business, it allows us to sell to customers directly in Europe, South America and Canada where i do not have dealers. These countries rely heavily on the web and Ebay to get the parts they need. Thats about 30% of our income right there, int'l customers. And it is growing.

[OptionZero]

One thing I'd like to point out is human nature...people LOVE to speak out...when they're pissed.

The people that are happy with what they experienced, however, are usually content to be happy and let it sit.

Thats why i think an active seller/vendor review area is great, and why the mainstays like Aspec, SPL, AutoRnd etc get the love (places I wouldn't hesitate to shop at)

[ManoNegra]

Excellent thread...
I'm glad that vendor are also venting their frustrations. This will make me a better customer when I buy things. And a happy merchant will go the extra mile for you. Keep the feedback coming.
As far as ebay. It's a tough issue. I dont hesitate to buy smaller things (batteries, fuel pumps, etc) but when it comes to large items I rather go with someone trusted and with a good reputation and local if possible. I don't mind paying a little extra for quality.

[A Spec Products]

I would pay $60 an hour for someone to just sit down with me and answer my questions. I think that's the only way to get good information by giving them a financial incentive to talk to us.

I know you're exaggerating obviously, but any decent shop should be more than happy to take as much time with you as is necessary.

The information is free, the parts cost money :)

[g6civcx]

I know you're exaggerating obviously, but any decent shop should be more than happy to take as much time with you as is necessary.

The information is free, the parts cost money :)

True that. Now flip it around. What do vendors want to see from customers?

I usually try to ask precise, succint questions after searching as much as possible; however, I feel that most of the administrative questions could have been pre-empted had there been a page on their site that clearly lists the store policies. I usually try to follow procedures as much as possible to help the vendor help me.

What else?

I don't think the request for pictures is totally unreasonable, especially when Japanese manufacturers don't list technical specifications on their sites. A lot of times it's just a sentence or two to accompany a stock photo. People end up calling anyway and drive you mad even more.

I think PDM's install section is great. I would definitely order more stuff from them if they spend a few hours apiece putting these articles together.
http://www.pdm-racing.com/installs/installs.html

[A Spec Products]

True that. Now flip it around. What do vendors want to see from customers?


I think you have the right idea, just do your homework before calling/asking, its just common sense. I mean sometimes this isn't the case, say, if you are shopping for wheels and you aren't sure about fitment.

Say for example if you want wheels, it wouldn't hurt to do some homework first, or maybe at least have an idea of what design you want. Doing homework not only helps the vendor serve you better but also helps the customer so he/she doesn't get ripped off or get something they didn't want.

That being said, I don't mind helping a "green" customer, but just like being a forum member and researching before you post, research before you ask / inquire. A lot of customers will call and say "oh this is a dumb question but..." and I don't mind that, since we were all there (and sometimes we are still there, including myself) where we have no idea and just want an answer.

Both the customer's and vendors time are valuable, so I think as long as you keep that in mind you aren't wasting either person's time.

Another issue is customer ATTITUDE. I think the biggest thing I have an issue with customers is when they call and get upset at you or are impatient or just generally have a bad attitude. A lot of customers don't understand the game, meaning that if you treat me terribly over the phone, do you think I'm going to give you a good quote? How helpful will I want to be? We're human, and I find it very stressful when a customer is rude or gives a bad attitude for no apparent reason. We make mistakes, we make errors, that's unavoidable, and I am glad when I see customers that are patient and understanding, especially in sticky situations.

As far as pictures go, sometimes just ask the vendor if they have any further pics or if they can acquire some. I have tons of pictures on file of items installed / uninstalled / on car etc, but just don't have the means or arena to post them all.

For installation, I think its often hard, since let's be honest, not all vendors are technical wizards or mechanical gurus (including myself haha). For example, I sell stroker kits, but heck, I have NO clue how to install one. A lot of companies recommend professional installation (including ourselves, since we aren't a speed shop but a distributor) and I don't think that's half bad, especially since it sends back business to speed shops / installation shops (and keeps the market cycling). But I hear you though, that would be awesome to see more installation faq's, and a lot of shops like PDM are doing it, which is good to see.

Alternatively (playing devil's advocate), sometimes installation articles are bad, especially for first timers, who can often get themselves into trouble by attempting an install that's beyond their means. But yeah, in the grand scheme of things installation faq's are good (as long as the information is accurate of course).

[koukidough]

i dont care for pictures or good customer service. Lower your prices by cutting down on a fancy site and customer service. All I want is low prices, cheap and affordable. As long as my item gets here packaged right and in a timely matter I wont give a cr*p about anything else!

[DrtyRat]

i dont care for pictures or good customer service. Lower your prices by cutting down on a fancy site and customer service. All I want is low prices, cheap and affordable. As long as my item gets here packaged right and in a timely matter I wont give a cr*p about anything else!
So you want your item shipped to you in a timely professional manner, and packaged correctly? I'm no brainiac but I'm pretty sure that has everything to do w/good cust service. And since you don't give a crap about all that cust. service who are you going to expect to talk to when/if something goes wrong. Also w/o these "fancy" sites how are you going to see/learn about the product? You gonna fly over to japan everytime(assuming its jdm tyte)? As stated before there's very little info on these products on alot of the main sites so these "fancy" websites are usually a must. Something tells me you are in the minority w/your opinion.

[koukidough]

So you want your item shipped to you in a timely professional manner, and packaged correctly? I'm no brainiac but I'm pretty sure that has everything to do w/good cust service. And since you don't give a crap about all that cust. service who are you going to expect to talk to when/if something goes wrong. Also w/o these "fancy" sites how are you going to see/learn about the product? You gonna fly over to japan everytime(assuming its jdm tyte)? As stated before there's very little info on these products on alot of the main sites so these "fancy" websites are usually a must. Something tells me you are in the minority w/your opinion.
no need to argue about this.... apparently your getting hyped about how I feel.

[REDSH!FT]

What do I like to see?

Hell, more customers like YOU Ken!

*for vendors' information*
g6civicx came in with a beat up old car that he bought to turn into a track car. He had an agenda. He gave us a list of parts and a list of labor, both things that were necessary. He told us what he wanted to do with it and what he didn't want.

He paid for his parts up front and said, don't worry about it. The labor will cost what it will cost, I just want the job done right.

Some parts we ordered ended up not being of the quality we had hoped, instead of making a big deal of it, he said, "oops, I guess we need to get something better. Forget this *insert brand here* intake pipe, I'm going to get the real deal HKS kit instead*


I like customers that:

1. have money to spend...I'm tired of having kids need pricing on coilovers under $700...uhhh, I can give you a list of all NOTHING that I carry

2. know wtf they're getting into when they want to do a project

3. don't expect unrealistic pricing/time frames on work...things take time, you aren't the only car there. If you drop off when YOU want to, you can't expect it to get done right away (unless we tell you so)

[A Spec Products]

I like customers that:

1. have money to spend...I'm tired of having kids need pricing on coilovers under $700...uhhh, I can give you a list of all NOTHING that I carry


To add to this I also have a suggestion.

Spend money on your car that you CAN spend on your car, i.e spend your disposable income. I know a lot of my customers are on a budget, but remember that cars are SECONDARY to paying the bills and necessary expenses. Cars are an awesome hobby, but don't let it put you in the red or keep you from paying your rent. May sound obvious but I know its easy to get carried away when you're in the moment. Take your time with mods and do it slowly, car will always come out better that way.

[[email protected]]

i dont care for pictures or good customer service. Lower your prices by cutting down on a fancy site and customer service. All I want is low prices, cheap and affordable. As long as my item gets here packaged right and in a timely matter I wont give a cr*p about anything else!

I can understand that you may not need customer service because you are already very knowledgeable about the product, but what happens if you receive a defective product, or need a replacement part?

My pet peeve is people calling to basically have us support a product purchased somewhere else, typically from a vendor of the sort you described, cheap and zero service. I can sympathise that sometimes these guys are stuck because the vendor they purchased from won't provide the support, for example they need a $1 replacement part to make a $1000 product work; of course as these things go, the $1 replacement part is the most time consuming to hunt down because it is not listed in the catalog and/or not in stock in the US. But as a business we have to draw the line that we cannot afford to provide service and support for other businesses.

[kognition]

Sounds like you just want generic brand parts.
The problem with your request, is that shops and manufacturers need good "fancy" sites to create a professional image. And customer service is really only used when you are trying to get an issue squared away with that part you bought. Customer service is the most critical point of any businesses survival.
It also sounds like you are set on parts being too expensive. Hey man, some are.
I want a sequenshift but i'm not asking them to lower the price, because i have researched the product, and i know what it is worth. I just have to SAVE UP for it. Hey! there's a concept! Actually saving for something. :duh:

i dont care for pictures or good customer service. Lower your prices by cutting down on a fancy site and customer service. All I want is low prices, cheap and affordable. As long as my item gets here packaged right and in a timely matter I wont give a cr*p about anything else!

[REDSH!FT]

*sigh*

what ever happened to "you get what you pay for"?


Everyone just wants a cheap Taiwanese knockoff these days!

[g6civcx]

As far as pictures go, sometimes just ask the vendor if they have any further pics or if they can acquire some. I have tons of pictures on file of items installed / uninstalled / on car etc, but just don't have the means or arena to post them all.

No offense or anything, but I upload more pictures to help out people in tech support than most vendors even bother to. It doesn't take that much time. If I can do it in a few minutes, anyone can do it. It's just like staffing somebody at the phone. It's part of sales and service.

For installation, I think its often hard, since let's be honest, not all vendors are technical wizards or mechanical gurus (including myself haha). For example, I sell stroker kits, but heck, I have NO clue how to install one. A lot of companies recommend professional installation (including ourselves, since we aren't a speed shop but a distributor) and I don't think that's half bad, especially since it sends back business to speed shops / installation shops (and keeps the market cycling). But I hear you though, that would be awesome to see more installation faq's, and a lot of shops like PDM are doing it, which is good to see.

Alternatively (playing devil's advocate), sometimes installation articles are bad, especially for first timers, who can often get themselves into trouble by attempting an install that's beyond their means. But yeah, in the grand scheme of things installation faq's are good (as long as the information is accurate of course).

I agree with everything here. How about this? Some parts are so specialised that even a general ASE-certified repair shop will not have the appropriate knowledge to install the parts. Not everybody lives in an area where that has speed shops, and not all speed shops know how to work on Nissans.

Plus the parts that do come with instructions aren't even in English. Others are just poor translations that leave you wondering what's going on.

So would it be fair to ask for instructions that an ASE-certified technician would understand? That takes the novice mechanic out of the equation because you will still need specialised training to understand what to do, but it will also help sales because you can drop your car, your parts, and your instructions to any general repair shop and they will be able to install the parts for you.

I am a certified light repair technician. I have approximately 18 months of experience at a professional service facility. I also had extensive coursework in motorsports engineering and automotive electronics on the college level.

Now having said that, I am very detail oriented, and that attention to detail leads me to asking very simple-minded questions sometimes. This drives some speed shops nuts because they don't want to spend the time to answer my questions, but in reality even though I possess some general knowledge, I lack knowledge and experience with the particular platform.

Now given that, how is the average person expected to know what's going on? On top of that, even ASE-certified technicians don't magically know how to install JDM parts. It's like the time somebody told me that an ASE Master technician knows which gearbox is better. The ASE program doesn't teach you how to analyse gearbox design; the program just teaches you how to repair to factory specs. You need experience and a motorsports/mechanical engineering background to be able to tell the difference.

The thing that pisses me off is that most speed shops don't even use a torque wrench. I have to use them because I don't have a choice. They have the experience and platform-specific knowledge, but as soon as I get my car back I double-check all their work and see how they performed the modification. Sometimes their work is good. Other times it can be improved, but it's always easier to improve an existing design than to figure it out from scratch.

For example, I paid Ian's shop to swap my fixed headlamp front end. It's not that I don't know how to turn nuts and bolts, and run wiring. It's just that I have never seen a schematics for an S13 Silvia before. I gladly pay them for their expertise. Now I take my front end off every other week to work on the car. Some of the stuff they did was good. Some other stuff I changed to be specific for my application, but it's all good. It would have taken me much longer to figure it out without seeing it first.