california smog referee

[leftyteck]

i've been considering a motor swap and i was wondering if anyone has done any swaps legally by taking their car to a referee and having them check it out and getting all the paperworks etc...

been considering it, want to know what kind of stuff they'll allow, my reason is my father is smog certified and at every training session he says the laws are getting stricter and stricter and in about 5+ yrs you might even be getting a smog ticket just by idling at a light

so, who's taken their car to a referee? even w/ other cars? i wanna do an ls1 swap :naughty:

[curbhuggerrps13]

C A L I F O R N I A ....nuff said

[leftyteck]

...

wow. wonderful insight.

[dct223]

If you do a swap... you have to choose a engine that is same year or newer than the year of your car, and not to mention the engine has to come from a US distributed car. To make it LEGAL.. you will have to have to do a clean swap with all smog equipment installed, no CEL's and i think even the same fuel system... Then u go to a state ref and he checks your work... if everything checks out ok its a legal motor swap... i believe if its a different engine than the factory, you will have to resmog every year instead of every 2 but im not sure.

[2iv0 sx]

too much trouble imo...

[leftyteck]

If you do a swap... you have to choose a engine that is same year or newer than the year of your car, and not to mention the engine has to come from a US distributed car. To make it LEGAL.. you will have to have to do a clean swap with all smog equipment installed, no CEL's and i think even the same fuel system... Then u go to a state ref and he checks your work... if everything checks out ok its a legal motor swap... i believe if its a different engine than the factory, you will have to resmog every year instead of every 2 but im not sure.
thank you! this is what i was looking for. if this is correct then an ls1 swap could theoretically pass, correct? as long as it doesn't exeed the allowable emissions. so has anyone actually done this? i would really like to know what kind of stuff they're picky about.

too much trouble imo...
not when you consider that it's getting harder and harder every year to pay someone off for a smog. in a few years it's gonna be ridiculous.

[dct223]

yes theoretically it is possible to have a legal LS1 swap, I believe people have done it on rx-7's and get flamed cus the whole rx-7 community is anti pistons... I think stock LS-1's in RX-7's get MAD high gas mileage too if they dont drive crazy

[topsecretgold]

im not 100% on this but doing an ls1 may not be legal since it comes out of an american car...i think it has to be a US japanese motor ie a 2jz out of a model later than your car...but i could be wrong.

[!Zar!]

Any american motor will be legal as long as it has all the origonal smog equipment on it, and is out of a newer year.. The ls1 had all that going for it except the exhaust manifold doesn't clear the steering rack. So the only way to get it to fit right now is custom headers. And since headers arn't legal. Nor will the ls1 be.
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=33444&page=1&pp=25

[Ricks15]

ID like to see a 240 with a 3SGTE!!!!

[Ricks15]

or 4AGE or GZE!!! lol!!!

[dct223]

wow a 3sgte.. never even crossed my mind.... cant that technically be legal for s13s???

[Ricks15]

Who know why dont you do it maybe you'll convince people not to do anymore sr swaps:keke:

[kazuo]

Doesnt matter if its a Chinese engine into a Mexican car; as long as the vehicle and the motor were both sold in the USA and are approved for use on US roads, maintain the original smog equipment, intake, exhaust with NO modifications, and cat(s) in ORIGINAL locations, and pass out the pipe, its legal.

That includes USDM 2JZGTE and LS1.

Too bad that the LS1 manifold wont clear in our cars (custom mani = fail).

2JZGTE can probably be made legal. I'd like to try it, but I'm not rich

[fliprayzin240sx]

I always thought it had to be from the same company too on top of it being the same year or newer. Nissan into a Nissan. So VG, VQ no SR or RB since theyre never DOT approved

[kazuo]

I always thought it had to be from the same company too on top of it being the same year or newer.

Incorrect.

Review the BAR/CA DMV rules on engine changeovers.

It doesnt matter who made the motor or what car it goes into, as long as its from same year or newer... blahblahblah read my last post.

I know its true because NCDA Don has a BAR legal RX7 with a Ford motor in it.

Besides, its right there on the BAR/CA DMV websites.

[leftyteck]

Any american motor will be legal as long as it has all the origonal smog equipment on it, and is out of a newer year.. The ls1 had all that going for it except the exhaust manifold doesn't clear the steering rack. So the only way to get it to fit right now is custom headers. And since headers arn't legal. Nor will the ls1 be.
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=33444&page=1&pp=25
make a stock looking exhuast manifold just for smog and use the stock head shield? there has to be a way around it... what part of the steering rack? towards the bottom im assuming. does anyone have any pictures of it?

[jOeHaCk98]

Yeah, but getting a cast manifold might be expensive. But it might work.. Depending on the the ref. He might not know, he might be cool with it. Chances are, he wont be cool.

[leftyteck]

---also there are many smog legal headers, especially shorty headers. what makes it legal? having a functional 02 sensor i believe right? that shouldn't be too complicated..

[ALTRNTV]

Interesting....

[jOeHaCk98]

For a definate answer if you are seriously thinking about taking on this task is, go to a JC, find the smog ref, and talk to him about your project. Make sure you tell him where the trouble spots are of the swap and ask him if your "fix" is a legal one.

then swap and show us!

/thread

[nistech]

---also there are many smog legal headers, especially shorty headers. what makes it legal? having a functional 02 sensor i believe right? that shouldn't be too complicated..

the company has to go through carb and get them legal and they might require things like 02 and TAC hook ups and if it gets approved they get a carb number. carb number has to be on the headers and on a sticker under the hood

[bcrume]

the swap will be legal, I know a shop that's gonna start putting ls1's into many imports in a couple of months

[nistech]

ok let me try to clear it up for all the people who are confused....

BAR separates it in 2 catagories 1- Replacement Engines 2- Engine Changes

1 replacement engine defined as follows:
- a new rebuilt remanufactured or used engine or the same make, number of cylinders and engine family as the original engine with the original emission controls reinstalled or:
- an engine which matches a configuration offered by the manufacturer for that year make and model of vehicle, and the appropriate emission controls for the installed engine and chassis components are present and connected.

vehicles with replacement engines should be inspected by a licensed Smog check station and should not be sent to the Referee Centers.

example: a 1977 chevrolet camaro was originally equipped with a 250 CID six cylinder engine. it now has a new 350 CID chevrolet universal replacement engine installed all the required emission control equipment for a 1977 camaro with a 350 CID engine are installed and connected.


2. Engine Changes

an engine changes is defined as follows:

An "engine change" is the installation of engine in an exhaust emission controlled vehicle that is diffrent from the one which was originally installed in the vehicle and does not qualify as a replacement engine.

note: section 3362.1 of Title 16 of the California code of regulations states : An ARD shall not make any motor vehicle engine change which degrades the effectiveness of a vehicles emission control system. Nor shall said delaer in the process of rebuilding the original engine or while installing a replacement engine effect changes that would degrade the effectiveness of the original emission control system and or components thereof.

the following guidelines should be followed when changing a vehicles engine

* the engine and emission controls for exhaust controlled vehicle mus be certified to the year of the vehicle or newer. and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard.

* A federally EPA certified engine cannot be used in a vehivle that was originally certified for California.

* Do not mix engine and vehicle classifications that degrade the emissions cerification standards. For example a heavy duty engine cannot be installed in a light duty exhaust controlled chassis even if they are the same displacement. Non emissions controllled power plants such as industrial or off road use only engines may not be installed in exhaust controlled vehicle.

* The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment. Diesel to gasoline conversions must have all gasoline enine and chassis emission control systems installed.

*No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, etc.) may be performed unless the parts systems are ARB approved or are EPA certified for use on the installed engine.

*If a computer controlled engine is installed in a non computerized vehicle the MIL check engine light OEM diagnostic link and all needed to make the system fully functional must be installed the computer control systems must operate correctly.

licensed smog check stations must refer vehivles with engine changes to the referee center for their initial inspection. The Referee Center will affix a BAR referee label will list the required emission controls.

The Referee Center will affix the BAR referee label only after the vehicle passes a complete Smog Check inspection. Once the BAR referee label has been installed subsequent inspections may be preformed by a licensed smog check station. The vehicle must be equipped with the emission control equipment listed on the BAR referee label. Only BAR label with serial numbers are valid . For more information regarding inspecting a vehicle with a BAR label see Part 1 section 3.3 and part IV section 7 or this manual.

Example: a 1980 datsun pickup was originally equipped with a 2.0liter four cyclinder engine. It now has a V-6 engine installed from a 93 chevrolet s10 pickup The vehicle does not have a BAR label
(this vechicle must be referred to the referee inspection)

[drift freaq]

i my reason is my father is smog certified and at every training session he says the laws are getting stricter and stricter and in about 5+ yrs you might even be getting a smog ticket just by idling at a light


This is complete garbage. Its speculation on your fathers smog class teachers.
15 plus years ago, when the stiffened up the smog laws with dyno tests everyone freaked out and thought it was the end of high performance engines. It wasn't, manufacturers figured out and made mods and engines that passed. They even started to have more stock HP than most engines that rolled off the assembly lines in the sixties, ( when there was no smog test laws) short of the crazy big blocks.

Fact is, today we have 6 cylinder smog legal engines, that are putting out stock HP ratings equivelent to the small block V8's of the sixties.

On top of that zero emission cats already exist! You can have one for your car it will only cost you $700-1k do they work ? Yes, they are currently used on 1000hp engines in Japan.
Could they be equipped on all cars from the factory? yes, they can and it would completely blow your dads hypothesis about smog tickets for idling right out of the water.

Little something you should know about smog laws and tests. The stringency is based on the year of your car and engine, i.e. They make stiffer smog laws now, the harshest measure of that is taken out on the newer cars not the older cars.

I know, you bay area guys are all crying what about smog II, guess what boys and girls its been here in socal for years and our cars are still passing. You guys got smog II because the bay area was facing heavier vehicle population and CARB bases its on a per capita figure.
The sky is not falling.

[NemeGuero]

Or, keep a stock engine and all stock equipment and swap out for smog time.

[FRpilot]

^^

thats a hassle but we'll probably have to do it eventually. probably even once a yr when we require annual smog for our older cars

[NemeGuero]

Its a hassle.. but its the easiest and cheapest way I could come up with. It doesn't take long to swap them in and out.

[dct223]

i agree with neo, thats my plan, keep my KA as a smog motor... swap out for smog and if the time comes i get refed that too..