roll bar/cage questions...

[gechalx]

ok so for like the past hour i've been reading past entries about roll bars and cages.. the only reason why is because i recently bought myself a bucket seat.. and i want to be able to wear a harness when i take it to the track.. i read that harness bars won't do shit when i get into an accident? or is it just when i roll over? lol.. basically i need something for my seat/harness combo and to make it safe.. but also for daily driving? will i get harassed by police if they see a roll cage in my car?

~
damn it looks like i might have to get another 240 to make my daily driver... lol

[i8yourfwd]

Don't waste your money on a harness bar. In the event of a roll, your body will not be able to rotate, because of the harness. Then the roof will cave if from lack of rollbar, thus crushing your skull down to your stomach. :) There's also a certain angle you need to mount your harness in relation to your seat. Too much angle, and in the event of an accident it'll snap your seat and spine. Too little and it won't hold well enough.

On top of that most harness' are not DOT approved because of the lack of body movement in the event of a roll. IIRC The only one that was DOT approved was a Schroth harness. No, FIA and DOT are not the same. If it's not a DOT approved seatbelt, it's illegal. But you would be able to just use your stock belts and have the harness on when your at the track.

Rollbar is NOT illegal as far as I know. Hell, your in CA you'll get harassed by cops either way for just driving a 240sx. I got pulled over 4 times in January -_-

[gechalx]

ok and also about this scca approval.. is that for all sanctioned drifting events? because i was thinking about getting a cusco or safety 21 cage but if it's going to stop me from goin to the track then it would be just a waste of money.
~
oh yea and also this car is going to be my daily driver for a while... and i know it's not safe driving around in a roll cage? lol.. so am i just left with the choice that if i get a roll cage..it should only be a track only car?

[CrappyS13]

jay...you couldn't say it any better. the harness bar is not legal becasue if you roll that cage can do one of three things...stay upright, fold forward or backward, so you are screwed 2/3's of the time.

[i8yourfwd]

A roll cage will crack your skull open without a helmet in an accident. You should be fine with a rollbar however. And as far as I know, the only "off the shelf" rollbars/cages that will qualift for scca is Autopower. Other than that you're better off going custom.

I believe they said the diameter of the cusco cage is not up to spec, and also the bend that goes around the dash.

[Nan Desu Ka?!]

Also there is a Scroth belt called the "RallyE" (not sure if that is the one you are talking about Jesse) that is a 4 point "Y" syle harness that is able to be installed using your stock rear passanger seatbelt locations. It is the ONLY belt that is DOT approved AND can be used WITHOUT a roll bar. It is designed to function the same as a stock seatbelt in the envent of a roll.

i.e. it will slacken one side of the harness, letting your body shift to the side so as not to make you kiss your inner thighs...

[Brian]

Cusco and Safety21 will not pass real racing requirements in the States.
Roll cage on street might not be the best idea, but it won't kill you in an accident. it COULD, but it is not certain.
Look up somewhere on google for the proper mounting points for harness and such. Everybody THINKS they know the right answer on these forums.

[stretch240sx]

the way you mount your harness is very important... like brian said... look it up because everyone can be wrong. in one of the spike tv auto shows (trucks, horsepower...) they said that it should be atleast 45 degrees from upright... if you run it straight up and down, when you get in an accident, the harness will want to compress your spine the further foward you move. so if you get into a good head on... you could come out a few inches shorter...

[supportTHEezln]

For my cage, I made the harness bar directly behind the openings in the seat. Like everyone else said, too much angle is bad. Also, about a cage being really dangerous on the street - if you are wearing a harness and your cage fits ok, it really shouldn't be an issue. With the way I made my cage/seat rail combo, I'm 6'2" and there is no way possible I'd hit my head in an accident - the A pillar-to-main hoop bars are not close enough to my head. It's not really all that dangerous if you do it right.
Just have a cage fitted right and make your seat rail as low as possible (I don't know about S13s, but I couldn't go as low as I wanted on the s14 because of the body).

[REDSH!FT]

For a street car, the only way to go is CUSTOM...for that matter, EVERYONE should go custom.

It will fit better, can meet whatever specs you want, and most of all, contrary to popular belief, they're NOT that expensive.

[supportTHEezln]

Yea, that's what I was getting at - custom cages can be safe(r) on the street. And I know there are people that'd do it cheap, I think if I did another one I wouldn't charge much to the guy.

[i8yourfwd]

Also there is a Scroth belt called the "RallyE" (not sure if that is the one you are talking about Jesse) that is a 4 point "Y" syle harness that is able to be installed using your stock rear passanger seatbelt locations. It is the ONLY belt that is DOT approved AND can be used WITHOUT a roll bar. It is designed to function the same as a stock seatbelt in the envent of a roll.

i.e. it will slacken one side of the harness, letting your body shift to the side so as not to make you kiss your inner thighs...
That's exactly the one :) The one I showed you, hehe

[gechalx]

k so i've decided that for now i'll get a bolt on rollbar.. until i can get a daily driver.. just the thought of crackin my skull against an a pillar bar scares me.. lol. so autopower makes a good rollbar? witha welded in harness bar? anyone else make a good one? oh yea and i read that CUSCO IS fia certified but just not in the USA?

[REDSH!FT]

It's certified for use in Japan...FIA is International though so it's not an FIA cert in Japan...

[axiomatik]

.......With the way I made my cage/seat rail combo, I'm 6'2" and there is no way possible I'd hit my head in an accident - the A pillar-to-main hoop bars are not close enough to my head. It's not really all that dangerous if you do it right.........

Just because you can't get your head close to a bar when you are sitting still doesn't mean you won't crack your head open in an accident. The forces at work in an accident are *extremely* violent, and your spine will actually stretch a significant amount in a frontal impact. What may seem like plenty of room standing still may not be enough in an accident. A 35 mph crash will result in about 20 g's of deceleration acting on your body. That means that your head, which normally weighs about 20 pounds, now weighs about 400 pounds, and is flying straight towards a solid piece of steel.

[supportTHEezln]

Oh sorry, I didn't know you sat in my car and measured all those dimensions. What harness do I use? How many inches away is the closest tube?
Edit - I appreciate you trying to be safe though. Just saying that you're making very large assumptions. I simply am saying it's not as big of a risk as people with poor fitting cages who only wear a seatbelt.

[axiomatik]

Actually, I didn't make any assumptions, nor did I say anything specific about your setup. I never said that you *will* hit your head, I said that just because a person can't reach a bar while sitting still doesn't mean it won't happen in an accident, as many people assume.

[supportTHEezln]

Ok, I can agree to that. Check mate.

[gechalx]

so where can i get a custom roll cage? or should i just get the autopower one? and how much would it cost for a 4 point roll bar? just a bolt on , cause later on i want to upgrade to a 6 point..

[P4rD0nM3]

Maybe google will help. It costs around 400-600...the more bars the uhm...higher the price. Hehehe.

[KA24DESOneThree]

www.ioportracing.com for all your Autopower needs. Seriously dude, don't just depend on us for the answers, I'm sure you're more than capable of finding some of them yourself via searching.

As far as cages in street cars goes... I used to be against it and now I don't have any problems with it, provided the cage used is well-built and padded.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather bang my head against a (properly) padded bar than be shoved into the passenger seat if I were t-boned by some idiot SUV driver. I'm guessing the whole keeping my body in one piece thing would be a little more survivable.

[supportTHEezln]

so where can i get a custom roll cage? or should i just get the autopower one? and how much would it cost for a 4 point roll bar? just a bolt on , cause later on i want to upgrade to a 6 point..

Autopower are kind of the ghetto way, in my opinion. I'm sure there's a shop near you that will build you a cage.

[DUBCITY]

cages shouldnt be an issue on the street without a helmet. If youre wearing a helmet or not, your head should NEVER hit a cage. Yes it will happen sometimes in severe wrecks, but it sounds like you guys think that you can only drive in a car with a cage if you are wearing a helmet because the cage WILL hit your head. Cages arent designed to get close to your head, even if you have a helmet. They are desgined to do the opposite, to keep the rest of the car from caving in and crushing your head. By adding a cage it does take up some room, which in turn does increase your chances of hitting your head on the cage in a light crash where you are not being restrained properly, but with the proper restraint system and no helmet i would much rather be in a car with a cage than no cage. This is why good cages are built so close to the actual body. If you do crash hard enough to bend the cage in towards you, think about what would happen if that cage wasnt there, sheet metal would be moving towards your body at over twice the velocity.

[drew935]

I believe they said the diameter of the cusco cage is not up to spec, and also the bend that goes around the dash.
Jay, Cusco also makes cages that go through the dash. You have a choice. Mr2 is also correct about the cage protecting you than hurting you. I assume gechalx that you're going to run a bucket or some aftermarket seat to sit you lower since you'll want more headroom to run a helmet.

[chibo]

I'm wondering if anyone running a cage on the street and has been in an accident would be willing to post pictures and a detailed description of the event and injuries that occured. I've seen pictures of caged cars that have been crashed but never heard anyone talk about what happened during/afterward.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/chibo/156-image.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/chibo/156-image2.jpg
Looks like a custom cage, the poster said he was hit by a dump truck. He never mentioned injuries or anything...

I'm seriously considering running 5 (probably 6pt for submarine protection)pts, 8pt cage, and buckets in a street car (I'm damn sure these S13's won't hold up for shit in a crash, let alone a roll over judging from just tapping on the roof) - I just don't want to put my girlfriend or other potential passengers at risk.

[Dousan_PG]

two buckets
and dont daily drivre
its the best bet w/ a full cage
:)

[ae86driftn]

I'm wondering if anyone running a cage on the street and has been in an accident would be willing to post pictures and a detailed description of the event and injuries that occured. I've seen pictures of caged cars that have been crashed but never heard anyone talk about what happened during/afterward.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/chibo/156-image.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/chibo/156-image2.jpg
Looks like a custom cage, the poster said he was hit by a dump truck. He never mentioned injuries or anything...

I'm seriously considering running 5 (probably 6pt for submarine protection)pts, 8pt cage, and buckets in a street car (I'm damn sure these S13's won't hold up for shit in a crash, let alone a roll over judging from just tapping on the roof) - I just don't want to put my girlfriend or other potential passengers at risk.

That's mine. It was a modified Cusco 6 pt. cage with x brace in the back. no injuries to me and there was a passenger. He broke his nose casue he wasn't wear his sealbeat and hit the roll cage with his nose. that's it.

The cusco cage(and most "roll cages") are for rollovers not crashes like mine,but it held up pretty well. The bars didn't break or snap,just crumbled and a good portion of it was still usable. IMO the Cusco 6 pt. should hold up in a rollover on the streets and as far as a accident, would you rather not have one ,especially with a accident like mine? Even thought they're not approve for certain bodies of racing,your're safer with one.(don't forget to put padding around where your head is gonna be)

[drew935]

That's looks like a pretty nasty T-bone. I was gonna say that that isn't a cusco cage with an x-bar in the rear. hehe. Glad that you survived that one and your passenger. :bigok:

[drew935]

o o dble post

[drew935]

dang it triple post. :(

[drew935]

That's looks like a pretty nasty T-bone. I was gonna say that that isn't a cusco cage with an x-bar in the rear. hehe. Glad that you survived that one and your passenger. :bigok:

[KA-T_240]

was that cusco cage above welded in or botled in.

well bolted in roll cars or cages be legal for scca/nhra or do they have to be welded in? and is there specail certifications for the welding?

[KA-T_240]

is that cage in the pics welded in or botled? was the mod the xbrace on the bars that go to the the back?

also where would you find the info for scca/nhra roll bar/cage regulations as far as installation like bolt in or welding it in and welding specifications.

[stuntman240]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture009.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture012.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture019.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/kidynomite/Picture018.jpg

I spun, hit semi trailer, roll bar kept my head on my shoulders, had bucket and harness. New car is getting cage in a week or two.

[SiI40sx]

does someone have a page or a source that describes all parts of a rollcage??? Im new to this myself and I was really interested in having one in my car for added safety, which isnt going to be a daily btw. The main use for the car was going to be for weekends or D-Day events. Thanks

[TurDz]

While you guys are showing pictures of survival with minimal injury, just understand that cars (newer ones especially) have crumble zones designed to absorb impact.

If you have too stiff a roll cage, all of the shock from the collision will go to the part of the car with the most compliance...your body.

I'm not saying it might not be safer with some type of cage, but I just wanted to put that out on the table.

[stuntman240]

While you guys are showing pictures of survival with minimal injury, just understand that cars (newer ones especially) have crumble zones designed to absorb impact.

If you have too stiff a roll cage, all of the shock from the collision will go to the part of the car with the most compliance...your body.

I'm not saying it might not be safer with some type of cage, but I just wanted to put that out on the table.


I understand this fully, in a crash you want as much energy from the car to be dissapated, while keeping the drivers compartment in tact. A cage should be designed with the crumple zones and the factory crash protection features in mind.

In my case the roof was acctuly torn at the base of the C-pillar, it was a very odd and freak accident. I am very happy to have had my roll bar and advocate for anybody that is going to be doing aggresive driving street or track to throw a roll bar in and at the same time to not drive that car daily.

[Cloud9]

I have a safty 21 4pt cage (bolt-in) and I dont think it would hurt to have it in case of a crash/rollover. I do however have a harness and bucket seat that are not in the car cuz i need somewhere to mount the harness and ive been to broke to put one in, so i have the stock seats and seat belts (stock seats SUCK)

[TurDz]

Good tips stutman, great thing you're ok from that crash.