Any fast Auto X'ers out there?

[kapower]

I was wondering how the 240sx, s13 or s14, is doing on a national level?

My co-driver and I, are running an SR powered S13 in SM this year. This preseason, I'am currently running --- stock boost, open diff, and 225/45/15 AS05's (hoosiers) on 7" konig rewind's) Too many suspension mods to list... and more to come , I still need to adjust roll center, bump steer, and corner weighting.

I only have 7 runs on the car, with this setup but, I'am neck and neck with some of the SS vette's, and a national level E stock MR2 (with an evolution driving school instructor behind the wheel...)

I plan on running 245/45/17 710's on 17X9 +20 offset 4lug 5zygens @17lbs a peice... A s15 helical lsd, and blitz boost controller set at about 12-14psi which should have me around 220+ rwhp level.

An S13 from my region, (NWR) competed in SM at nationals last year, and to my knowledge was the first sm 240 to compete at the nationals. That was the cars second time on the track, and still had a few bugs to work out. It's running an SR20, custom Moton's, and 315mm R-compounds on 17" wheels all around!

It should give Ryan Carag's SM BMW M3 some good competition. There is also a really fast super-charged Civic to contend with... it trophied at nationals last year....

I think the 240sx will be a contender in Street Modified.
What do you guy's think, contender or pretender?

[reflexing20v]

I am doing the same, setting up for SM with a sr20. I am fairly confident in the fact that the car should be a contender(I have been figuring rough power to weight ratios in comparison) but as always it just comes down to the driver. I am suprised there are not more running in the Rocky Mountain Region Hopefully soon I will find out why, if it makes it or breaks it.

The car running 315's all the way around sounds pretty amazing. Do you have any pics or links?

[kapower]

No pics that i know of... but Don Nimi (PDM racing) has pics of his SM 240 with 710's, 275's up front and 295's in the rear go to pdmracing's web site and click on 240sx street machine write up... http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/240sx.html

The car with 315's had a very high ride height, and relatively soft springs, but with enough body modifications, and stiffer springs it could be lower. the tires were impressive but the body modifications were very crude...

[kapower]

Hopefully this isn't to big... this is our competition 15th place for the 240sx with old 315mm tires with almost 0 track time before nationals.
Close Window
2005 The Tire Rack SCCA Solo National Championships
Last Modified: 9/26/2005 6:17 AM
Results for SM-Friday
Street Modified Drivers: 40 Trophies:11


T 1 196 Victor Sias 1995 BMW M3 Ylw Kumho 59.692(1) 59.411(1) 56.936 109.846


[96] Santa Clara, CA SiasTuning San Francisco R/NP 52.910 53.699 55.591(1)

T 2 96 Robert G Tunnell 1995 BMW M3 Wht Kumho 59.841(1) 59.933(1) 57.872 110.086


[196] Superior, CO BimmerHaus/Apex Hyperformance Colorado Region/RM 55.483(2) 52.214 60.102(2) -0.240
T 3 81 Nelson Antunes 1994 Honda Civic Red Kumho DNF 58.770 58.152 110.664


[181] Watertown, CT King Motorsports/Phil's Tire Service/PartShippers. New England Reg/NE 53.084 52.512 52.848 -0.578
T 4 181 Christopher Travis 1994 Honda Civic Red Kumho 60.053 58.198 60.219(1) 110.718


[81] Mahopac, NY King Motorsports/Phil's Tire Service/PartShippers. New York Region/NE 52.520 55.012(1) 52.550 -0.054
T 5 27 Mark Daddio 2005 Mitsubishi Evo 8 RS Wht Hoosier 59.201 60.436(1) 61.875(2) 110.980



Beacon Falls, CT Vishnu Tuning/ Bishop Motorsports New England Reg/NE 51.792 69.688(5) 51.779 -0.262
T 6 161 Robert Luis 2002 BMW M-3 Gry Kumho 62.120 59.416 58.232 111.037


[61] Rohnert Park, CA A Shade Darker/Epic & Wildstyle Graphics San Francisco R/NP 53.520 53.204 52.805 -0.057
T 7 61 Jeff Stammer 2002 BMW M3 Gry Kumho 62.511 63.671(1) 59.928 112.527


[161] Santa Rosa, CA A Shade Darker/McLeas Tire/Pro. Auto San Francisco R/NP 53.440 53.070 52.599 -1.490
T 8 32 Brad Greco 1994 Honda Civic Wht Hoosier 64.454(1) 62.247(1) 59.831 112.634


[132] Seattle, WA Traksclothing.com / Fordahl Motorsports Northwest Regio/NP 59.136(3) 53.459 52.803 -0.107
T 9 191 Eric Hyman 1993 Toyota Supra Wht Kumho 67.226(2) 64.744(2) 59.228 112.652


[91] Austin, TX Bibble Labs Lone Star Regio/SW 53.743 57.834(2) 53.424 -0.018
T 10 91 Sean O O'Boyle 1995 BMW M3 Ylw Kumho 60.626 58.585 58.405 113.105


[191] San Francisco, CA SiasTuning San Francisco R/NP 59.954(2) 57.717(1) 54.700 -0.453
T 11 197 Oliver Licul 2000 Audios S4 Quadrupedo Blu Kumho 61.851 60.611 59.633 113.170


[97] Hollywood, FL Mertom.com / PPTSO Racing Florida Region/SE 53.537 54.507 54.166 -0.065

12 98 John C Fessler 1994 Honda Civic Wht Kumho 61.723 59.585 62.636(1) 113.550



Sylvania, OH Kumho/Jack Burns Race Wheels Northwestern Oh/CN 56.029(1) 53.965 54.217 -0.380

13 87 Geoff Clark 1999 BMW M3 Slv Hoosier 63.801 62.097 60.082 113.883


[187] Monroe, WA BimmerHaus, Chase Race, Megan Racing, Thanks Ryan! Northwest Regio/NP 71.428(5) 54.851 53.801 -0.333

14 97 Daniel Menendez 2000 Audifono S450 Blu Kumho 60.335 60.381 62.133(1) 114.010


[197] Miami, FL Mertom.com/ PPTSO Racing/ DynamicTurbo Florida Region/SE 55.258(1) 64.653(1) 53.675 -0.127

15 151 Anthony Capri 1992 Nissan 240sx Gry Kumho DNF DNF 60.473 114.102


[51] Redmond, WA Sound Speed Racing--- we're harder than that.. Northwest Regio/NP 54.505 DNF 53.629 -0.092

16 78 John Doby 1998 BMW M3 Slv Kumho 62.399 60.586 60.437 114.228



Baltimore, MD MentalWerks/Speedesign Washington DC R/NE 54.304 53.791 53.972 -0.126

17 187 Ryan Carag 1999 BMW M3 Slv Hoosier 64.583(1) 60.771 60.315 114.598


[87] Redmond, WA BimmerHaus, Chase Race, Megan Racing, Sea Sound Ra Northwest Regio/NP 55.408 55.077 54.283 -0.370

18 171 Michael Lieberman 1998 BMW M3 Blk Kumho 65.485(2) 61.142 60.460 114.922


[71] Tulsa, OK Hesselbein Tire/Kumho Tires Northeast Oklah/Midwest Divisio 54.506 56.317(1) 54.462 -0.324

19 132 Trever McDermott 1994 Honda Civic Si Wht Hoosier DNF 61.149 61.226 115.399


[32] Bellingham, WA Traksclothing.com / Fordahl Motorsports Northwest Regio/NP 58.797(2) 54.533 54.250 -0.477

20 48 Matthew A Huntman 2004 Subaru WRX STi Slv Kumho 64.760(1) 61.583 62.887(1) 115.669



Columbia, IL Adrenaline Motorsports St Louis/Midwest Divisio DNF 54.765 54.086 -0.270

21 144 David Jobusch 1995 BMW M3 Blu Kumho 63.718(1) DNF 61.327 116.164


[44] Windsor, CO www.generic-racing.com Colorado Region/RM 55.444 55.042 54.837 -0.495

22 10 Neal Tovsen 1977 Volkswagen Scirocco Gld Hoosier 62.204 66.226(1) 61.856(1) 116.232



Saint Paul, MN Project No Cones Land O' Lakes R/CN 54.376 55.540(1) 54.872(1) -0.068

23 71 Jason B Toon 1998 BMW M3 Blk Kumho 63.954 61.214 60.358 116.261


[171] Dallas, TX Equipe Rapide/Hesselbein Tire/Kumho Texas Region/SW 56.382 56.770(1) 55.903 -0.029

24 93 Marc Osgood 1993 Honda Civic Wht Hankook 61.108 61.301 61.245 116.708



Seneca, SC Brandywine DMG, Valvoline, ATR Atlanta Region/SE 56.950 55.600 55.782 -0.447

25 89 Arthur P Kathe 1999 BMW M3 Kumho 64.981 63.419 62.231 116.792



Erie, CO
Colorado Region/RM 55.121 54.561 54.628 -0.084

26 190 Jason Kolk 2000 Ford Focus Slv Hoosier 63.793 62.323 62.942 118.236


[90] Waterford, MI Ford Racing Performance Parts Detroit Region/CN 56.435 57.501(1) 55.913 -1.444

27 90 Ryan Schnackenberg 2000 Ford Focus Slv Hoosier 66.317(1) 63.175 DNF 118.676


[190] Dearborn, MI Ford Racing Performance Parts Detroit Region/CN DNF 55.501 DNF -0.440

28 44 Jeff Baysinger 1995 BMW M3 Blu Kumho 73.257(1) DNF 62.502 118.749


[144] Highlands Ranch, CO www.generic-racing.com Colorado Region/RM 56.247 59.055(1) 58.097(1) -0.073

29 5 Greg Meier 1992 Honda Civic Turbo Red Hoosier 77.172(2) 64.447(1) 67.568(2) 118.951


[105] Downers Grove, IL TW Solowerks Chicago Region/CN 55.859 54.692 54.504 -0.202

30 51 Jerold Lowe 1992 Nissan 240sx Gry Kumho DNF 62.208(1) 63.672(2) 119.756


[151] Puyallup, WA Team SSR/ J&L Fabricating Northwest Regio/NP 63.616(5) 57.548(1) 58.698(2) -0.805

31 86 Ted Visscher 1978 VW Scirocco Wht Hoosier 69.056 65.509 64.225 120.063



Powell, TN
Eastern Tenness/SE 57.275 55.838 55.984 -0.307

32 16 John Wharton 1995 BMW M3 Ylw Kumho 67.834 66.140 64.143 121.424



Ellisville, MO Qwicherbichen Motorsports St Louis Region/MW 58.597 58.179 57.281 -1.361

33 105 Edward Locke 1992 Honda Civic Red Hoosier 70.118(1) 65.488 70.512 123.665


[5] Elmhurst, IL TW Solowerks Chicago Region/CN DNF 60.539(1) 58.177 -2.241

34 79 Kevin Patrick Murphy 1991 Eagle Talon Blu Kumho 71.401(1) 66.228 66.354 124.026



Tulsa, OK Team LOSER! Northeast Oklah/MW 59.906(1) 57.798 57.973 -0.361

35 17 David Cole 2004 Subaru WRX Slv Kumho 67.039 65.024 67.289(1) 124.652



Collinsville, OK Idiot Savant Motorsports Oklahoma Region/MW 59.628 60.291(1) 59.887(1) -0.626

36 101 Dan Townsend 2001 Ford Focus S Ylw Kumho 70.394(1) 65.875 66.090 125.175


[1] Denver, CO Oscar Jackson Engineering Colorado Region/RM 60.168 62.466(2) 59.300 -0.523

37 1 Van Townsend 2001 Ford Focus S Ylw Kumho 74.448(1) 67.405 66.901 125.297


[101] Arvada, CO Oscar Jackson Engineering Colorado Region/RM 58.737 63.193(2) 58.396 -0.122

38 25 Chris Shenefield 1988 Honda "Civic ""Herman""" Red Kumho DNS DNS DNS No Time



Trucksville, PA RedShift Motorsports Northeastern Pe/NE DNS DNS DNS


39 74 Eric Stemler 2003 Mitsubishi Evo 8.5 Slv Hoosier DNS DNS DNS No Time



Peoria, IL Team Sandbag Central Illinoi/CN DNS DNS DNS


40 28 Robert Wayman 2003 Subaru WRX Wagon Blu Hoosier 67.459 69.230(1) 70.434 No Time



Lenexa, KS Dieman Motorsports AWD Dyno Kansas City Reg/MW DNS DNS DNS






Close Window

[Rennen]

I think the 240sx will be a contender in Street Modified.
What do you guy's think, contender or pretender?


I think it stands a good chance in Street Mod, but it will take quite alot of development and tuning to compete with the top drivers on a national level.

I am personally building my car for DSP duty.
-I can fit the tire under the car because I am not afraid to go at the fenders with a sawzall
-I can get a couple hundred pounds lighter than the class leading BMWs
-With DSP mods, and a ton of tuning, I think the KA is capable of 170ish to the wheels

My car won DSP locally last season, while being completely stock with 205/50/15 V710s and an VLSD. This season I'll be moving to a different region, and attending most MidDiv events and perhaps the NT when it goes through Topeka. That should give me a standard to judge the car's development against.

[HaLo]

I drove National tours last year... Did not fare very well, even though regionally, I was doing good.. On 245/45r16 all around hoosiers...

I personnally think that the 240sx does not stand a chance with the SR20DET... Maybe some small chances with an overbuilt KA24DE+T. Don's car is the closest to winning a trophy at the national level... his mod list is extensive, and he has been auto-xing a s13 since 1991...

Oh, and BTW top runner SM cars are 400whp 2600lbs cars with drivers that have tons of experience..

[DaPCWiz]

I run autoX when I get a chance for fun/practice as STS, my skill, my car, and my wallet aren't quite ready to compete yet. Still a KA, with minor suspension work, upgraded wheels and tires.

kapower - I'm curious... why are you running open diff instead of an lsd?

[Cashizslick]

I personnally think that the 240sx does not stand a chance with the SR20DET... Maybe some small chances with an overbuilt KA24DE+T.

I am curious as to why you feel this way . . . is it because of the Sr20's lack of low end grunt?

I plan on autoxing my S14 w/SR20DET as well.

[HaLo]

I am curious as to why you feel this way . . . is it because of the Sr20's lack of low end grunt?

I plan on autoxing my S14 w/SR20DET as well.

You'll never make decent power to match the Supercharged M3s on the low end with a SR20DET... Too much lag. I have seen Daddio's Evo VIII run in person and it's scary fast, 300lbs overweight too. Worse part is, he got smoked at the Nationals by the Supercharged M3s. And don't forget the 2000lbs 200whp Civics, they are hard to beat in the corners. Like it or not, 240sx are heavy and it's very hard to get their weight down. I would suggest putting a VQ35DE, boost it and maybe you'll stand a chance.

[Cashizslick]

Not to thread jack, but do you think that the 240 is better suited for a road course than autox?

[tchenku]

hell! at a local auto-x last year, i got beat by a bone stock civic seden w/ only victoracer tires. the guy was a good driver. he was beating out alot of cars like mini copper S, evo VIII, subbies, and a few bmw's!!

it's all about driving skills, appearantly!

[HaLo]

local events != national events

I podium regularly at local events. I beat tough cars. Not at the National level. Hell, at Topeka, I'd love to see anyone make a trophy with a 240sx. It's not going to happen anytime soon.

National tour events have the best drivers across America, and it's even worse at Topeka. If you don't beat everyone at PAX locally, don't even think being competitive at National level. SM is a monster class, and if you don't have 50k on your car, have the best driving skills, it won't happen. You won't be among the top drivers at Topeka.

[Rennen]

Not to thread jack, but do you think that the 240 is better suited for a road course than autox?


That's not really the point at all. Its all about maximizing your car within a given ruleset. The 240 is handicapped by its size and weight in SM. You can create a motor with the right response and power levels to play with the top people, but it will take quite alot of development and tuning ($$$$). You can also fit the same amount of rubber under the car w/ flares. But there will always be cars with more power or less weight.


For autocross the 240 can run in:

GS: where it is severely underpowered and undertired against the class leaders(mini, celica). I was always fighting my inability to gain front camber when I ran in GS.

STS/STX: These classes are good to start out in because they have good competition and allow common mods, but the rules don't allow the 240 to use its greatest advantage over other cars in class... the ability to fit wide rubber under the car.

DSP: Basically STX with the allowance to run any size R compound tire. This is where I think a 240SX can approach the levels of the front runners more easily. Compared to the BMWs, our cars are "light", and we can run large tires without increasing track width too much.

SM: see rest of thread, main advantage is freedom of powerplant

EP and EM: If you have to ask....


FWIW: the only SCCA class where the 240 is a ringer is the SOHC cars in Improved Touring A (ITA) clubracing. I crew for an ITA 240SX, and its fast and fun to watch. We realized at the AARC last year there was still quite a bit of room for improvement to bring it up to stretch-mobile standards.


-the opinions of Matt

[tchenku]

me and a buddy of mine was just talking about a couple of months ago. how no matter what you do to your 240, you can only go so far with the car. of course money is always an issue. but, i'm with halo about 240's winning at nationals!! it might happen on of these days.

[HaLo]

Oh, by the way, I went out of my way to Toledo National Tour last year (considered to be the toughest after Topeka) and Devens National Tour... and I got smoked pretty bad both times, with about the same mods as the original poster + a roll cage to stiffen things up...

Personally, right now, the only 240sx that stands a chance (big maybe) is Don Nimi's 240sx... it's in the 26xx lbs, has real suspension work (custom shocks), rear grip (wide tires) and good piloting experience (13+ years auto-x, many championships). Besides, he's already at over 20hours of work just to plot the suspension on his car. He seriously has something going on there and he's the first one to say he still needs to invest another 20k$ on the car to be sure it stands a chance...

[thx247]

I'll side with Halo on this debate. I've seen the top 2 M3's run autox and its not anything like what a 240 can do. The motor, tires and weight just are not there.

[HaLo]

If you don't believe me, check it for yourself:
http://s5.ultrashare.net/hosting/fs/d020c6c1a2ebba9f/ (SM Class winner for the last 3 years)

[S14DB]

bad link :(

[HaLo]

Damn, the linked is dead...

Here, I uploaded it on Putfile:
Click here to watch Victor-Sias--Topeka-2005 (http://media.putfile.com/Victor-Sias--Topeka-2005)

[MovinUp-1]

The 240 can compete in SM at a National Tour level. My car won the Houston Tour in 2004, defeating a regular nationals trophy winner in a supra. The SR20 can make the necessary power and is lighter than a turbo KA. The biggest problem is being able to compete with the M3's. I personally do not believe that the M3 and Supra belong in this class. They are not what the original spirit of the class intended, IMO. The cars are far more expensive to buy and modify than the other cars in the class.

The biggest deal with the 240 is that you have to do whatever is necessary to fit more tire under the car than the factory allowed for. A 245 is about as big as you can get in the front and that's not going to be enough to win a national champoinship with. The other suspension mods are fairly straight forward. If you're not worried about winning a national championship I think a 240 with 245/45/16 tires and an SR20DET is a relatively inexpensive and very fun car to autocross.

[kapower]

The SM 240sx w/315's should be out and running soon. I'll post up the results (and hopefully pictures) so we can compare them to Brad Grecko's SC SM Civic w/280fwh... -8th place last year.

Ryan carag has also trophied at nationals, his M3 should also give us somewhat of an idea...

BTW... The owner of the SM 240 has also trophied before... It's got spherical bushings all around, custom moton's, and ton's of resources. Last I saw, Don's car still has poly bushings.

Don runs in my regoin when the National tour comes around. So they will go head to head. Should be interesting...

--- 17X10's with 275's all around, 5lug, advance design/koni 8611's shocks, spherical bearings, a good alignment, and 300rwh would be pretty damn fast, and I think a good base/formula for success.

[turtl631]

Why not go with a built ka with cams and something like a GT32...shoudl spool quick and make lots of power, the extra .4 L against a SR should definitely help. Regarding suspension and tires, i have no idea, autoX is a strange beast where bigger seems to always be better.

[jzr]

I think the 240 can be competitive in STS, it's the class I'm building my car for. I detailed the build in a thread here (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB27&Number=68025397&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all)

I think the car also has potential in SM, but nobody, not even Don, has really given it a full-on effort yet. I might try it in a couple years once I've had my fun in STS. The first thing I'd have to do though is buy a lighter/stiffer coupe to swap my parts into - the hatchback is quite plainly the wrong 240 platform for an SM car.

The coupe would also be the better platform for a DSP car. It would be interesting to see how much power the KA could make with some ITB's and an AEM EMS. I think power is the main deficiency over the 2.8 liter E36's in SP trim.

As a chassis, the 240 does have some good advantages over the E36 BMW - a 9" shorter wheelbase, and a narrower rear track given equal-width rear wheels. The KA is such a pig-heavy motor, all Nissan needs to do is make a nice all-aluminum V8 with a broad torque curve that drops in, the SM build would be pretty simple from there.

[kapower]

I'll be running my very,very, under-prepared SM 240 at the Packwood national tour event, in Washington. You'll like Packwood, we have covered pits, and a pretty good sized lot to run on...

Should be instresting to compare times with other 240's. 315mm R compounds or not... We all started out with a stock S13.

[240 OR DIE]

Im setting up a SM car as well. Good Luck

And just to add, the car cant stand much of a chance against 89-91 civics that are prepped well in sts. There jsut isnt enough tire for the weight of the car. Youd stand a beter chance in stx or dsp IMO, considering you up to the max size or something more favorable like 245s or 255s all around. Im running in stu currently, due to oversize wheels17 x9- 17 0ffset, on 245/45 falken fk451s. From 225 azenis rt215 in sts, to the 245 fk451 in stu, I cant tell you how much of a differnece these made. And to think that I was ok with 225s.

Good Luck-Justin

[jzr]

I think the 240 can stand up to the Civics, especially in Pro Solo, which features a drag race start. FWIW I built the '89 Civic Si that won the 2003 and 2005 National Championships, personally having finished 4th in the car in '03.

The STX WRX is going to have a lot more in power:weight than the 240. As it is, the 240 barely accelerates with the Civic. In STX, if you could give up ABS and get a base '91 coupe to lose ~100lbs., since you aren't reliant on the factory diff. That might help the acceleration equation but it's still not going to keep up with a WRX, especially at the launch.

DSP would be interesting, especially if they ever move those darn BMW's out. The 240 can fit a lot of tire, but again is hampered by a lack of power. Would be interesting to see what the KA could make with some ITB's, a custom header and a proper .040-over build.

The problem with the 225/45-17 Azenis is that it's so tall. STX can run a 235/40, which is shorter and wider. I've actually found the 215/40-17 to be a better tire in many ways than the 225 - for starters, it's 6 pounds lighter!

San Diego National Tour next weekend, we'll see how the 240 does in its first national event!

[kapower]

Hey, JZR... Do you think moving up to a 245/45/17 V710 would be worth while improvement, over a 225/45/15 hoosier AS05? My 15" wheels weigh in at about 14-15lbs, and the 17" 4lug 5 zygens are 17lbs.

The added gear ratio/faster speed in second gear, would be an improvement. The Auto X's in my area tend to have me caught in between second and third gear. But, how about actual grip levels, and raw times?


Should I just save my pennies for some 275's, and 17X10 5lug 5zygens?
-Jason M

[i8yourfwd]

The SM 240sx w/315's should be out and running soon. I'll post up the results (and hopefully pictures) so we can compare them to Brad Grecko's SC SM Civic w/280fwh... -8th place last year.

Ryan carag has also trophied at nationals, his M3 should also give us somewhat of an idea...

BTW... The owner of the SM 240 has also trophied before... It's got spherical bushings all around, custom moton's, and ton's of resources. Last I saw, Don's car still has poly bushings.

Don runs in my regoin when the National tour comes around. So they will go head to head. Should be interesting...

--- 17X10's with 275's all around, 5lug, advance design/koni 8611's shocks, spherical bearings, a good alignment, and 300rwh would be pretty damn fast, and I think a good base/formula for success.
Can an S13 even fit that much rubber under there? 275 seems way too big unless your not as low? Depends on the wheel offset too I suppose, and if it's a FB or coupe, since coupes can get away with pulling fenders more.

[kapower]

^^^ click on the link in post #3

[i8yourfwd]

Ah ok, done with flares, thanks. I was pretty sure that was too much rubber for the stock fenders.

[jzr]

If you're running at a SP or especially an SM level of prep, you're probably going to have to flare the fenders.

If I were to build the car for DSP, I'd run 285/30-18's all around on at least 10" wide wheels, 11" being better. I've done the measurements on my S13, and the most I think it'll fit is 9's up front and 10's or 10.5's in the back. You might be able to fit more in the rear on a non-HICAS car.

In Street Mod I'd go to a 315 or 335 rear tire with at least a 12" wide wheel, depending on power level.

The V710 is faster than the A3S05 for most cars in most cases - I definitely would anticipate an improvement moving to a 245 V710 from a 225 A3S05. This is assuming though, that you have proper wheel width to support the 245 tire.

[kapower]

JZR... I would run a 17X9 + 20 offset 5zygen @17 lbs each, They are about 3 lbs heavier then my current setup, the tires are also 3-4 lbs heavier =6-7lbs per corner, and my center of gravity would be higher. The taller gear ratio, and extra 20mm of the finest DOT rubber available would be nice though...

I ended up in third place overall at the last auto X. The competition was pretty slim, but I did end up beating Scotty White and his new 505hp viper with triple adjustable moton's and super wide V710's... He hit atleast one cone on each of his runs ;).

That was my second time auto X'ing a turbocharged Car, and the first highspeed course of the season. I had ton's of inner wheel spin almost everywhere, even with stock boost. I'am now running with a Blitz boost controller (maybe 40-50 more HP), set to about 14 PSI, and an S15 HLSD.

The car seems to pull much harder now, and act's much differently with the HLSD. I'am going to have to Re-learn to drive the Car once again...

I'am only running with 3.7 deg neg camber up front, soon I'll see how 4.5-5 deg's will perform. I here that an extremely fast ITA 240 (I.E. Bob Stretch) was running an abnormal amount of camber.

I have been comparing my times to Kevin Deitz in his E stock (Zebra) MR2, He is fast and very consistent. I will post up the difference in times from before and after the BC, and LSD.

Since Deitz was just at the SanDiago NT, I can also compare times With the extremely well built STS 240 driven Buy JZR. I know thats not an extremely accurate way of comparing, with all of the variables, (Track setup, weather, ect...) but close enough for me... The Zebra is well driven, fully built, and very consistent... -JM

[jzr]

The SD Tour might not be the best comparison, since I was doing some tire experimentation and didn't have a clean run on Sunday.

At the Fontana Pro, I was a second off the ES winner, Dietz's codriver Mark Coleman (80.7 vs. 79.7). Our STS and ES PAX times were very close, so that's about where I need to be performance-wise.

By comparison, SM winner Vic Sias ran a 73.4, and DSP winner Toby Larsson a 76.4. Therefore, you need to be about 3 seconds faster than Kevin Dietz/ES on an 80 second course to be competitive in DSP, and about 6 seconds faster to be competitive in SM.

[kapower]

hhhmmm.... normally Deitz is faster then Karl Coleman. JZR... Your times look good, when considering you are on street tires.

The autoX on Sunday went ok, the course was the tightest, slowest course, I had ever been on. The car is much different, but faster now with the lsd and extra boost. The extra seat time on such a chalenging course was great, It's hard to flog a car at it's limits when you constantly make drastic changes. I learned a lot about the car.

I ended up in either 3rd or 4th overall - .060 off fast time of the day, set by a SM2 Turbo miata. I know it's not SM competitive, the tires are too small, but it is still going to be very quick, once I start driving the Car like I know I'am capable of.

[zads]

http://www.scca.com/Solo/Solo.asp?IdS=0019E8-E2E3CB0&x=050|010&~=

I had ton's of inner wheel spin almost everywhere, even with stock boost. I'am now running with a Blitz boost controller (maybe 40-50 more HP), set to about 14 PSI, and an S15 HLSD.

The car seems to pull much harder now, and act's much differently with the HLSD. I'am going to have to Re-learn to drive the Car once again...


Interesting. I am running an open diff right now, and getting the same inside wheel spin.
I have a S15 HLSD sitting in my room, and I was hoping that it would help solve my traction issues, but I guess maybe it won't.
Are you running the 245/45/17's with the HLSD when you get the wheelspin?
Are you running stock or aftermarket swaybars, subframe spacers?


My car falls most closely into STX category, so that's what I've been running in this season.
My footing setup:

Z33 wheels and stock tires (just something to burn):
Front: 17x7.5 +30, (23.3 lbs :duh: ) 225/50R17 Potenza RE040;
Rear: 17x8.0 +33, (24.1 lbs :duh: ) 235/50R17 Potenza RE040;

KTS Coilovers (8kg/mm front, 6kg/mm rear)
Front camber plates almost maxed out (~-3.5 degrees)
Stock sway bars
Open Diff

[jmauld]

I am personally building my car for DSP duty.
-I can fit the tire under the car because I am not afraid to go at the fenders with a sawzall
-I can get a couple hundred pounds lighter than the class leading BMWs
-With DSP mods, and a ton of tuning, I think the KA is capable of 170ish to the wheels


I won DSP at our local club last year as well, and usually place in the Top Ten Raw and Pax. However, the local guys that do nationals generally pax ahead of me by 1-2 seconds, depending on how good of a day I'm having or how bad of day they are having.

If you don't mind sharing, what have you done to your car to prep it for DSP? How do you plan on getting 170hp to the wheels? I've done some of the basic bolt-ons and have dyno'd 156 to the wheels. I can send you the dyno if you like.

I don't mind sharing the things I've done and what I plan on doing to improve it in the future, if you're interested.


Interesting. I am running an open diff right now, and getting the same inside wheel spin.

Last year I had issues with inside wheel spin with a VLSD. The plan for this year is to go with a bigger front swaybar to see if that helps, and I have reduced the rear spring rate to 350lb springs.

Previously, I ran 550lb rear springs and no rear swaybar and there were times when I was lifting the inside rear tire completely off of the ground, which I believe will cause wheelspin regardless of which LSD you have. Maybe some of the clutch diffs could hold up to that?

[zads]

If you don't mind sharing, what have you done to your car to prep it for DSP? How do you plan on getting 170hp to the wheels? I've done some of the basic bolt-ons and have dyno'd 156 to the wheels. I can send you the dyno if you like.

...Last year I had issues with inside wheel spin with a VLSD. The plan for this year is to go with a bigger front swaybar to see if that helps, and I have reduced the rear spring rate to 350lb springs.

Previously, I ran 550lb rear springs and no rear swaybar and there were times when I was lifting the inside rear tire completely off of the ground, which I believe will cause wheelspin regardless of which LSD you have. Maybe some of the clutch diffs could hold up to that?

I'm curious what bolt-ons you have, that have gotten you to 156whp?

As for squeezing even more power out of the KA, one recommendation I would make is to try a standalone ECU.. the 30-1600 AEM EMS unit is a plug and play unit (to the harness), so you can easily install it, or swap back to your stock ECU in about 3 minutes.
Here's a dyno chart from stock car to stock car + AEM:
http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~clwang/pictures/KA24DE_Dyno.jpg

Are you running the 350lb rear springs with swaybar or without? Still having problems with the inside rear unloading?

[jmauld]

I have the following power mods (this is on a S14):

- CFDF Clutch
- Fidanza Flywheel
- Short Ram Intake
- Hotshot Header
- 3" catback
- Unorthodox Pullies
- S-AFC

However, a large % of my hp gain came from playing with the timing. My distributor is advanced as far as it will go without taking it out and offsetting it a tooth. I've been watching the standalone guys, but have reservations about it. I think a large part of their power increase is coming from ignition timing. I think I saw a total of a 2hp increase by playing with the fuel. Of course, I was running out of dyno time so I didn't get to try everything I would've liked to try.

On my rear suspension, I am running the 350lb rear springs with the ST swaybar. I have only done one event with this setup and it was on last year's tires. My initial impressions are that the car has a lot more initial push, but does have an easier time putting down power. I think the real solution is going to be a combination of going with a bigger front swaybar, and tender springs on the rear to take over during those times that I'm fully extending the main spring.

[Mikes14240sx]

I have a S15 HLSD sitting in my room, and I was hoping that it would help solve my traction issues, but I guess maybe it won't.


zads, kapower said he HAD inner wheel spin before he had the s15 hlsd.

[Mikes14240sx]

On my rear suspension, I am running the 350lb rear springs with the ST swaybar. I have only done one event with this setup and it was on last year's tires. My initial impressions are that the car has a lot more initial push, but does have an easier time putting down power. I think the real solution is going to be a combination of going with a bigger front swaybar, and tender springs on the rear to take over during those times that I'm fully extending the main spring.

What spring rate are you running on the front? If the rear shock is fully extending with the main spring while cornering now then a helper spring won't keep the tire on the ground.

[jmauld]

What spring rate are you running on the front? If the rear shock is fully extending with the main spring while cornering now then a helper spring won't keep the tire on the ground.

450 on the front.

I'm not talking about using a helper spring. Those are only used for keeping the coils in place.

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/susp-tech/springs/index.htm

[AceInHole]

You'll never make decent power to match the Supercharged M3s on the low end with a SR20DET... Too much lag. I have seen Daddio's Evo VIII run in person and it's scary fast, 300lbs overweight too. Worse part is, he got smoked at the Nationals by the Supercharged M3s. And don't forget the 2000lbs 200whp Civics, they are hard to beat in the corners. Like it or not, 240sx are heavy and it's very hard to get their weight down. I would suggest putting a VQ35DE, boost it and maybe you'll stand a chance.

:P Halo

Daddio's car weighed as much as mine did, and mine has full A/C and sheet metal. Also, Nelson Antunnes (who trophied last year in Travis' Civic) wanted to co-drive my car at a few events... too bad it wasn't running reliably enough to ever have that happen :(

I'd like to someday come back to the 240sx but it's actually for sale now :(. For a while I think I had what was close to being one of the best SM prepped 240's:
1995 S14
275 front 315 rear Hoosiers (which were stolen last Fall off my race trailer :( )
KA24DE with an S15 turbo on an equal length bottom mount manifold (dyno'ed the S13 turbo to 275rwhp 311rwtq, was hoping to make 300 flat on less boost with the new setup).

I think with lighter wheels (mine weighed what.. like 30-35lbs per? MASSIVE AND HEAVY), a better suspension (great sways/ bracing, shitty D2 shocks), a reliable engine (built block threw a bearing before I broke it in) and fuel (would've liked to go standalone), I would've had a small shot at Nats. Milk the turbo for as much power as it could get, lighten the car with some carbon-fiber fenders/ hood (weigh in at under 2600lbs maybe...).

It's a shame I crashed my first S14, which for some reason was never down for more than a week and put out way too much power for way longer than a stock block should've :duh: . Like I said tho, someday I'll come back to the S-chassis, probably after I finish paying for my G35 ;)

EDIT for not reading all posts before posting:
275's will fit with major fender puling in front. I ran 275/ 40/ R17 and it eventually cleared with the car lowered to race height. The fenders were bent to hell though, and it's FAR from pretty. 315's will fit the rear with a lot of pulling as well, although I've heard stories of people pulling too far and popping welds, ruining the chassis. If I ever got back to it: I'd cut the fenders, as much as I could up to the 1lb max, and possibly a bit more :-P. Fender flares = weight. Who needs weight on a full blown race car?

My thoughts on SR vs KA: The KA dominates for autocross. Ask Halo, who's seen my car in action back when it was in form (even while I was driving badly in a mental rut :-P ). Instant boost and linear response is king. The weight factor? Minimal in my opinion. I'd actually like to see how an RB would do.

Last thing real quick: I ran 9kg springs up front, 7kg in rear, with whiteline bars and an assortment of Cusco braces. If I did it again I might actually go stiffer, although it might've just been the spring lengths I had.... and I'd definitely invest in better dampeners.

Before I forget: Invest in a REALLY GOOD LSD.

[jzr]

A DSP car should be running the EMS, ITB's, a lightweight flywheel and clutch, all the emissions crap removed, be overbored .040" and have the head port matched. One should use an early (lightest) coupe with the aforementioned DOHC motor. Weight would be under 2600lbs.

Fender flaring is an SP allowance, you can cut as much out of the fenders and quarterpanels as you need to make your tires fit, there is no 1lb. limit there.

The SR can be legally bored/stroked out to 2.2+ liters in Street Mod, no advantage to the much-heavier KA. You want the car as light as you can get in SM, and getting the power you need is only a matter of money. In SM trim I could see an S13 coupe being comfortably under 2500lbs.

[240 OR DIE]

Hey Ace what size rims were you running to get the 275s under the fronts. Im running 17x9 17 offset, and Im looking to get 265s all around. Id think Id be ok with 265/40s on that size wheel in the front without alot of rub? Any thoughts??? Right now Im on 245/40s and I still think I got the room for the 265s before I have to get to some serious fender bangin!

[AceInHole]

I ran 17x9 front and 17x10.5 rear. I needed a LOT of fender pulling to clear, especially with how low my car was. You should also take into account what kind of tires you'll be running. I think my Hoosiers may have been a bit wider than some other similar sized tires from other manufacturers.

[turtl631]

Also, have you actually looked for tires? 265/40/17 is a REALLY rare size. 255/40 and 275/40 are far more common.

[zads]

Ran in a club autocross this last sunday,
I got there at 11am, but still got about 16 runs in through the day.

Enough runs to test/break in the new S15 HLSD diff, and dial in some new shock settings (a one click change on my front shocks was totally changing the response of the car; the adjustment range on the KTS coilovers is awesome).

I ran without the rear swaybar; I'm struggling for rear traction as it is. Will probably keep it off for the time being.
The HLSD was very nice- no more smoking the inside tire on corner exits. Felt a little strange to get accustomed to. A healthy amount of oversteer on corner exits.


Also got to test out the lateral accelerometer today, got some decent datalogs.
Here's one of my last run of the day. The guy controlling the lane staging told me, "Last run of the day, go and hang it out there".. and I did- right into a wall of cones. Oops. :rofl:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1271/4359802/9202277/135708467.jpg

The graphs shown are:
-Vehicle speed and engine speed (see where they diverge in the middle of the run? yeeeeah...
-Throttle position
-Accelerometer, the dashed bars are +/- 1G. The graph limits are +/- 1.5G (Positive is right turn, Negative is left)

-Accelerometer Histogram of my last run (bottom of graph is in G's)
-Accelerometer Histogram of my 2nd or 3rd run

Hopefully by the next event, I'll have the Longitudinal Accelerometer hooked up.

[fuzzy_tanit]

i ran my car in sts part of the season last year.
my engine is pretty stock with normal with only an intake.
but there is a lot of work going into my suspension.
i ran with falken azenis on my stock wheel.

so far
i was able to beat the champion in my both of kentucky region. i was on the way to taken 1st for the year end points until i install my kaaz.

then i was kicked out of sts with 3 race left missing 1st place but still coming in 2nd.

when i was in stx i am up against fast wrx. i mean fast. it make me work so much harder. especially on bigger coarse where 3rd gear come in to play since i dont have power. but so far i can win one of the two region for sure.

so overall i believe 240sx is a well balanced car. but like they say the car is willing to go as fast as the driver can push it.

[Dominic Axelson]

Dude I think u will do good with that. but if you get a vlsd ud do beter

[vw_nissan]

local events != national events

I podium regularly at local events. I beat tough cars. Not at the National level. Hell, at Topeka, I'd love to see anyone make a trophy with a 240sx. It's not going to happen anytime soon.




I hoped you dropped your jaw if you found out what happened in the 2006 Nationals. It's funny how you just said it, and someone proved you wrong right away. :2f2f:

[HaLo]

I hoped you dropped your jaw if you found out what happened in the 2006 Nationals. It's funny how you just said it, and someone proved you wrong right away. :2f2f:

Sure did!

I can't wait to see what he'll do in SM this year...

[jzr]

I predict I'll get smoked pretty good through most of '07 - not so much because the car doesn't have the potential, but because there's a ton of stuff that's new/different that needs to get sorted. Plus I'm sure to have other problems like stuff catching fire, wheels falling off, control arms folding up, blown motors, and grenaded transmissions. Doesn't help that I'm way behind schedule in getting the car together, a NT should never be a car's first event after even small changes, much less a complete rebirth. We should pretty much discount my Tour results (unless they're good :)) but if I don't at least do sorta okay by the Pro the following weekend, that's a problem.

[AceInHole]

Dude, so far a 240sx has won 100% of the SM class races for this year's National Tour series (all of 1!). Keep the streak alive!!!

This is an old frickin post!! I guess my update starts with that I'm back in the game with the S14 in SM.

I'm running an HLSD atm, and it wasn't too bad. My rear end is a bit bouncy due to a lack of proper damping, and my roll-centers are fucked. I'm hoping with new front LCA's I'll get a bit more rear end traction through sweepers. I ran the car with just about 300rwhp after finding a boost leak that was causing me to trail off on the dyno (only hit about 250 on it at about 8-9psi). We were severely underpowered at that level, in my opinion, but it was still enough to make the rear get squirrely with 315's in back. Right now my plans are: new injectors, new front LCA's, and new shocks/ struts. After that it's all gonna be getting down to minimum weight. I was over by like 200 lbs (full A/C and sheet metal still).

2007 Dixie Tour win, barely by a cone:
http://www.gfabracing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/chris-t-3.jpg

We did get outpaxed hardcore, though. SS beat us RAW, hard, although they were also running later in the day.

[nevaland9]

i ran with a stock 91 fastback with coilovers and a J30 LSD and got second in the novice class when i was 16...then i broke my hand

this summer i plan to go hard tho SR20 with a GT2871r, HKS step ones etc etc...anyone who races on long island watch out!

[kapower]

I'am going to try some Koni yellows all around, (maybe some 8611's up front?) and ground control coilovers 600f, 500r. I need to cazll those guy's and find out what the hot ticket is for ITA these days... Those will be assisted by whiteline sways f/r. Eventually I will have 100% shperical bearings.

The rear of the 240 has a lot of suspension bind. Which is one of the reasons I rhink it does'nt put the power down very well to the ground through the corners. Hiem joint's should help a lot. Bob Stretch says they are a must to get the rear suspension to work properly.

Don Nimi (PDM) told me that the suspension geometry is terrible, and can't be properly fixed with SM rules. He says it's a roll center problem. He would not tell exactly what was wrong. I guess becuase he spent a lot of money plotting out hiw suspension...

I think the difference between the front and rear roll center (IIRC Roll axis) is the problem. either the rear is to high or the front is to low. I alos think the roll center can be changed within SM rules, using the SPL front and lower control arms, or the custom control arms that I built using circle track/stock car parts...

If we raise the front roll center, it should help get more power down through/out of the corners, aswell as hadding more grip in front becuase of the improved geometry.

I won SM last year in the NWR SCCA, ya! I know it's just a local thing but, it still was'nt easy...

I'am racing a kart this year... Next year my megasquirted KA-t powered S13 should be in full force, at the local level, anyways.

My ka-t responds soo much quicker then the SR that I Auto X'd last year. The SR is a huge dog coming out of the turn arounds! Ka all the way... forget about the weight...

I can't wait to activate Launch control mode next to the starter, my backfires are soo loud! It spits out flames and smoke right behind the front tire on the driver side, right towards where the starter normally stands!

Good luck guy's.

-JM