Ebay / TCS multi-link snapped rod ends *pics*

[bing]

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/706/ruca14ky.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8804/ruca25ul.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5305/ruca39gs.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8307/ruca41oq.jpg

this was ebay-style, TCS multi-link

the guy is a buddy of mine and these were used for less than one full year, he got them just before this past summer.

stay away from cheapo multi-link

there are other companies selling this same gear that under different names that i wont mention.

beware

[m0rex]

Dang that sucks. Your whole suspension looks like its about to break off though. Rust owned you.

[andrewmp6]

thats why i wont buy ebay knock offs

[ThatGuy]

stay away from cheapo multi-link
thats why i wont buy ebay knock offs
+1 billion and then some.

[MELLO*SOS]

Dang that sucks. Your whole suspension looks like its about to break off though. Rust owned you.
:werd: Looks like the rust took its toll on the weakest link.

Thanks for sharing

[Sean1978]

wow... another single occurance epidemic!!!

guess what? I had a friend, his SR20DET EXPLODED!!!!

DON'T BUY SR20DET's THEY ARE GARBAGE!!!!

hey, if you guys want to spend 3 to 4 times the price on metal chunks than go ahead. This reminds me of the "wheel spacers are all garbage" or "turbo manifolds all need to be expensive" threads. I'll bet 99 people could chirp in that all have parts like this working fine.

Fact of the matter is that people don't post thread rants for things that work. I have never seen a "OMG MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS" tread because people only tend to post when things crap out...



btw, MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS!!!
(and they costed like 1/3 what the JDM stuff did)

I'll bet that northern canadian winter rust had something to do with it also...

[bing]

actually i know several people who have had this happen

http://bings.ca/images/DSC01808.JPG

this is what it will look like before it snaps.

the rod ends are not meant for automotive use my friend. no matter what way you slice it, they are inappropriate...

just because yours havent snapped yet doesnt mean that they are perfectly fine. driving habits and environment play a big part as well.

[!Zar!]

wow... another single occurance epidemic!!!

guess what? I had a friend, his SR20DET EXPLODED!!!!

DON'T BUY SR20DET's THEY ARE GARBAGE!!!!

hey, if you guys want to spend 3 to 4 times the price on metal chunks than go ahead. This reminds me of the "wheel spacers are all garbage" or "turbo manifolds all need to be expensive" threads. I'll bet 99 people could chirp in that all have parts like this working fine.

Fact of the matter is that people don't post thread rants for things that work. I have never seen a "OMG MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS" tread because people only tend to post when things crap out...



btw, MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS!!!
(and they costed like 1/3 what the JDM stuff did)

I'll bet that northern canadian winter rust had something to do with it also...
That is bs. It has been PROVEN that the cheaper metals and quality control of e-gay style parts arn't up to par as other name brand companies. Not to say that there are people who have it; PHILIP does if I recall. Cheap turbo manifolds... haha be my guest. The fitment is pretty bad most of the time and the porting looks like someone took a hamster and a 3yr old to massage the ports. They are highly likely to crack if not ceramic coated.
Wheel spacers? If you are talking about an H&R knock off, I would be afraid the studs would snap off. If you are talking about the metal spacers ie. the 7mm 12mm..ect. that you slap on before you put you wheel on. I'd never run those if someone paid me.
Verdict is, stfu and contribute something. Instead of spitting babble. Cheap parts = short life span, and that could be your car or your life.

[bing]

i had Touge Factory spacers and they almost killed me..

the bolts they provided as studs melted on the highway.... the provided lugs literally ripped the threads right off.

[drift freaq]

Bing those came off ebay right? Where they marked TCS? Are you a hundred percent sure they were TCS. Reason I ask is because I know a lot of drifters here in socal running TCS control arms for 2 years plus and no problem. Plus I have never seen a TCS control arm in that color.
Your post is a touch inflammatory. See Rust and extreme weather can kill any exposed metal. Thats a chemical and physical fact.
Also TCS does not even run those type of rod ends these days and have not for a long time.
I do not sell TCS but I know people that do and lots of people running them with no problems. You show us pics of a unlubed rusted corroded piece and you expect it not to fatigue , rust and possibly break. That stuff is being exposed to extreme conditions on top of that its not even technically stuff that should be used on a street car. I know a lot of people do but guess what most of the manufacturers do not say bolt these on your cars use them in daily driving. They are a item designed for track use. i.e. race cars.

I think you need to use a little common sense here.
People you bolt stuff on your car designed for track use do not expect it to last or act like stock factory stuff. Its race!! There is a reason why everything you buy for a race car has no implied warranty beyond manufacturing defects. They know its going to be pushed hard and may fail or get broken.
You see Formula one cars break control arms. Yes it happens!

[gearhead290]

It's one thing to buy an "ebay" exhaust, it's kinda hard to die if it fails. But, when it comes to something that could be a safety concern than I guess your life is only as valuable as your willing to spend. After all, what if it fails while you're playing around on a mountain road, and then you lose control and drive off the side of the mountain.

The heim joint has surface rust, but ALMOST all metal will. It doesn't appear to me that rust would be the cause of the break, more like a weak metal. You guys are talking about how his control arms and stuff have rust on them, but any car that is driven in a snowy/harsh climate is going to have that. I have seen 2 year old chevy trucks with a worse looking undercarage than his car. Not to mention I have yet to see a local S13 with an underbody that's that clean.

Personally, SPL linkage for the win.

[theicecreamdan]

show a better picture of the threaded portion that broke, I think you will see that rust did not play much of a role in that snapping. Looks like some rust on the surface. The diameter of the threaded portion on that rod end is not thick enough, its not even close to the size of the bolts that hold that part onto the subframe. whatever brand that was it isnt good enough for a street car, let alone a track car.

He wasn't posting here to whine and complain about nobody warrantying the product, its just a post showing that "ebay suspension" is not the quality that people should trust their lives with.

[drift freaq]

show a better picture of the threaded portion that broke, I think you will see that rust did not play much of a role in that snapping. Looks like some rust on the surface. The diameter of the threaded portion on that rod end is not thick enough, its not even close to the size of the bolts that hold that part onto the subframe. whatever brand that was it isnt good enough for a street car, let alone a track car.
you are possibly right dan, though I still stand by my statement. Unless he can prove unequivocally that it is a TCS product he should not be saying it is. Like I stated. I have seen TCS control arms in fact I have seen their whole run. Yes I have friends that sell them. They never came in that color. No one I know has even had a problem like that with TCS control arms. These are people that are drifting hard on them in competition. Formual D!! Drift Days !! etc..

The only reason I am posting in this thread, is because the thread starters post is a biased inflammatory, accusational and bordering libelous post. Until he can prove that the product is what he claims he should not be making those accusations from a legal standpoint.

[Bryants95240sx]

Looks like it got owned by the salt/corosion. They whole suspension looks like its about to fall apart. Im sure glad i dont like in a climate like that. My car would never leave the garage.

[drift freaq]

Looks like it got owned by the salt/corosion. They whole suspension looks like its about to fall apart. Im sure glad i dont like in a climate like that. My car would never leave the garage.

which is what it looked like to me as well.

[MrSkinny]

Those aren't TCS. Theyre the Debluz or whatever ones from your ebay parts GB a while back. TCS ones are usualy silver and cost more than those ones. I've been running THAT same rucus on my S14 for my second canadian winter now and last i checked it was still intact and functioning fine.

My powertrix tc rods on the other hand failed when i kissed a curb. The joint fell out of the rod. screwed it back in, still going strong.

[Jefferson]

I don't think all ebay arms are garbage but i've never owned any knockoff suspension pieces. I have battle version ruca's just becuase I like the way they have finer threads to make mor accurate adjustments and also support one of our own

[bing]

I have had this arguement with others before on ziptied... in the interest of not bringing up old arguements i will omit the name of the companies branding some of these products, i will simply keep ebay and TCS here since i already called them out.

http://www.zilvia.net/rides/west/mw13/C-TuneTraction.jpg

TC sportline:

http://www.tcsportline.com/images/traction%20rods_s13_01.jpg

EBAY

http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/99/f7/a2_1_sbl.JPG

i will also say that the RUCA's in the first post and the ones i posted a pic of with the measuring tape were both imported by myself for resale in Canada from suppliers who are selling these arms under various names in various countries in various colours.

i asked for a different colour and i got bthis blue. you will find them in green, red, grey, chromed etc.

i could go deeper into this issue if you like, Dave Penkiw from Modified Mag and i discussed this at length and you can read the article starting on page 118 of their SEMA issue, DEC 2005. it has the red RSX on the cover from HKS. my blog is on page 121 i think, or something like that.

i used to import these and have since redesigned my own and have them made here in Canada by professional machinists and tradesmen whose company builds a variety of components for some of the biggest names i dirt-track, sport modified, and karting. Bicknell is oneof their primary customers.

we can absolutely discuss this at length if you wish.

and i would love to do so in a public forum such as this

[kuruptR]

the rust killed it

[$D$]

it was cheap metal, it takes longer than a year for metal to rust that much, i should know....

[OMGWTFBBQ]

obviously goes without saying to not cheap out on vital parts like that..
thx for the pics though...hopefully it will shed some light for the people who still wanna buy them anyway..

[bing]

i should reitierate that the arm in the first post has been in use for less than one year.

he had them on around summer time, this should reinforce that rust was not the issue and if it was it still doesnt excuse the rod end as being the culprit.

the second picture with the measruing tape was taken IN THE SUMMER, 2 WEEKS after install and you can see the rust on it. there was no rain between install and that picture. i remember it well.

[Sean1978]

the thread starters post is a biased inflammatory, accusational and bordering libelous post.

amen, maybe it would be more true if it was about the specific model, but there are like 50 types of these parts on ebay.

also, lots of things could have caused that. racecars (like these parts are designed for) are supposed to get a pre and post race inspection with checks for loose bolts and bent metal, these parts could have been shocked by something (hitting a pothole, wall, etc.) a few weeks before that bent and eventually caused them to fail. The rusty, non lubed joint could have not had proper travel and that could have caused the rod to BEND instead of PIVOT...

a coating of old motor oil can help keep the rust off..

[TurDz]

All of your suspension components were exposed to an EXTREME amount of corrosion, especially if that is what the RUCA looks like in just one year. I will quote what I wrote in the Apex'i exhuast rusting problem:


From what I know, corrosion such as what you described can happen to anyone. In general though, for something like that to happen, you need an environment that accelerates corrosion.

Do you live in a rainy or snowy area? is it ever humid? I see you live in North Carolina, so at the very least, you are more susceptible to acid rain and pollution from the west coast.

Anyway, what probably happened was a small rock chipped the coating on your exhuast canister. Once this happened, bare iron was exposed. With pollution, acid rain, road salt, etc, there are chlorides in the air. When this comes in contact with that small chip, it causes a corrosive barrier (a precipitate from the metallic ions) and covers that portion completely (think of a very corrosive positive battery terminal).

When this happens, you deprive that local site of oxygen, and it become an anode, or something that starts giving electrons away. These electrons go to something called a cathode (or an electron acceptor). The cathode becomes the complete exhaust canister portion that is not damaged. Unfortunately, when these electrons leave, you are left with many positive hydrogen ions. The chlorides in the air and water find their way into this local site, and form a very damaging acidic mix and metallic ions, which is what caused the decay to what it is now.

There is more info here if you are interested:
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encyc...-corrosion.htm

I hope that helps.

If you look at the website above, you will see that once corrosion starts locally, the danger is not in the surface area of the corrosion, but rather the depth. That particular threaded section you took a picture of most like exhibited pitting corrosion. It started at a small, local site, and once it was starved of oxygen, a chemical reaction took place and eventually worked into the metal, depth wise.

As you may know, all screws/bolts/studs, etc are not designed to fatigue or bend at all, and will result in failure if this happens. Since damage was probably done on just a small section, and as that small portion of metal (may not have been visible to the naked eye) was eaten away, forces on the joint would then cause fatiguing and bending moments on the theaded portion itself, which would cause the failure.

Another possibility could have been galvanic corrosion, which invloves two different metals with different (electrochemical) potentials. More info can be found on that website in the above quote.

The joint may also have failed due to the lack of range of motion in that ball joint. If indeed the eBay joints are "cheapo," the ball joint may have not had enough lubrication in it or lost its lubrication properties. Corrosion could then occur inside and cause it to seize up. can you still move the ball joint around?

Anyway, my main argument is the evironment had a major part in your suspension failure. The best thing to do is keep an eye on your suspension components, at least once a month. And if you see corrosion on the threads, especially to the extent of the one you pictured, they should be replaced immediately.

Good luck with everything, stay safe.

[Sean1978]

The joint may also have failed due to the lack of range of motion in that ball joint. If indeed the eBay joints are "cheapo," the ball joint may have not had enough lubrication in it or lost its lubrication properties

I lube my ball joints when I change my oil, is it a coincidence that mine haven't snapped?

[Wei240]

wish we had some engineering guru here that could help and test out (tensile?) strength of ebay parts and parts from larger companies that actually does r&d and uses good material,
i'm almost positive, most (some i'm sure are decent) of these ebay parts use cheaper material, metal pieces are not just metal pieces, the composition of it makes a big difference... not only that, i highly doubt most of these ebay parts have the same quality assurance/inspection/testing...
yes, rust, corrosion will fasten the process, but crappier materials will crap out faster...
the sad thing is that there are decent ebay parts out there every know and then, and then there are crappy ones that kinda knock offs and even worse, crappier ones come out that seem to be knock offs of knoc offs...

[FaLKoN240]

btw, MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS!!!
(and they costed like 1/3 what the JDM stuff did)

I dunno if I could take advice from someone that says "costed"

[Sean1978]

I think that the problem here is that people replace there OEM soft suspension parts with complete solid suspension race parts and alot of time expect them to work the same way. I'll bet a stock nissan tension rod will completley outlast a solid spherical bearing unit from ebay even though the stock one is probably made from thinner weaker metal, what's the difference? OEM parts are powdercoated to resist corrosion and have soft, big rubber bearings that are designed for ride comfort and longevity. I think the problem here is a failure to properly lubricate and protect from the elements, also I wonder how often you checked for loose bolts on your solid suspension setup (that can cause a snapping effect that rubber can handle but solid sphereical bearings can not)

I dunno if I could take advice from someone that says "costed"

wow! I got PWNED!! someone otta flame me and insert a funny JPG. how "Zilvian" of you....

[TurDz]

I think that the problem here is that people replace there OEM soft suspension parts with complete solid suspension race parts and alot of time expect them to work the same way. I'll bet a stock nissan tension rod will completley outlast a solid spherical bearing unit from ebay even though the stock one is probably made from thinner weaker metal, what's the difference? OEM parts are powdercoated to resist corrosion and have soft, big rubber bearings that are designed for ride comfort and longevity.


That is a very good point. I have spoken to a professor at my university who is deeply involved with Toyota and GM R&D, and he has said that OEMs (Japanese) suspension pieces go though rigorous testing for durability and longevity. Things like cyclic loading, different levels of impact, etc. Japanese companies generally have the design and test to failure attitude.

When you replace the compliant rubber bushings with solid spherical joints, you are exhibited about 10 times (quoted) the impact harshness on all suspension components. Whether or not it's eBay, if moderate corrosion has taken place, this impact will definately cause failure.

[Bryants95240sx]

Well regardless you get what you pay for. Im sorry to sound harsh but the neck on those are pathetic. and they couldnt handle the rust and corrosion. End of story. Buy quality parts next time and this wont happen.

[theicecreamdan]

Rod ends that need to be lubricated do not belong on cars.

[bing]

Frig,

i changed the title of this thread so that certain people wont get pissed off.

who cares about the corrosion. Even if it did contribute to the failure that doesnt excuse the rod end as being the culprit.

what i REALLY want to know is... are you gonna go my way....hahha, no really..

what i really want to know is why i cant call-out companies by name that are knowingly selling inferior products.

that is a big problem

if a company is selling imported chinese parts and not telling anyone, and these parts have a high capacity for failure, and i know they are selling these parts...AS PROVEN BY THE PICS ON PAGE ONE...why is it a big problem that i say it?

that is what the issue is here....

taking an unbranded part and branding it doesnt make it a better part, what it should do it put a heightened degree of liabilty on the company that brands it.

just because this particular arm was not TCS or C-tune or whatever does not mean that those companies should not be mentioned because they are or were selling identical pieces.

chroming a shit piece of steal doesnt make the rod end invincible.

anyone selling junk like this should be called-out

i used to sell those faggoty Type S style BOV's and they didnt work, so gues what i did?

i gave one to Modified mag to put in their article and told them straight up it didnt work.

then i took them off my site and issued refunds to the people that had them.

when people ask me about them i tell them straight up they are shit.

these arms are shit, anyone selling them is selling shit and doesnt deserve secrecy.

[OptionZero]

Don't blame them at all for making shit; every imaginable industry and field has people selling crap.

If people didn't buy it they wouldn't make it; if you go cheap and buy crap like that and it breaks, why bitch? What did you expect? You bought into the company's rhetoric?

There's nothing wrong with tryin to save money; shit I'd love to, but you gotta be judicious on what you're gonna cheap out on...and I'm realistic enough to think if i cut corners its gonna catch up to me.

IT SUCKS, YOU BUY IT, IT BREAKS, YOU STFU.

disclaimer: "you" used as a generic address not necessarily exclusive to bing.

[Titan]

Let me chime in, as this is MY car in the first post.


I made this post last night on a local board.



The cause of the failure was indeed corrosion, but not in the sense you imagine it.

The corrosion caused the spherical ball to seize in the liner. The ultimate reason for failure was BIND.


With the ball being seized, the RUCA acted like a solid link. So when the suspension travelled, something had to give.

In this case, it was the shank.



There is NO problem with the construction of the RUCA, but rather the selection of heim joint. Low carbon steel, or even zinc coated steel has no business as a heim joint material in such conditions.


This is the replacement I ordered today. $50 USD, but well worth it.

Stainless steel ball
Stainless steel housing
Self-lubricating PTFE liner

Most importantly, NO mild steel.


http://www.mcmaster.com/library/20041019/2988K161L.GIF

[theicecreamdan]

This is the replacement I ordered today. $50 USD, but well worth it.

Stainless steel ball
Stainless steel housing
Self-lubricating PTFE liner

Most importantly, NO mild steel.

for the win.

Don't blame them at all for making shit; every imaginable industry and field has people selling crap.

If people didn't buy it they wouldn't make it; if you go cheap and buy crap like that and it breaks, why bitch? What did you expect? You bought into the company's rhetoric?

There's nothing wrong with tryin to save money; shit I'd love to, but you gotta be judicious on what you're gonna cheap out on...and I'm realistic enough to think if i cut corners its gonna catch up to me.

IT SUCKS, YOU BUY IT, IT BREAKS, YOU STFU.

disclaimer: "you" used as a generic address not necessarily exclusive to bing.

The problem with that is, there are a lot of people that don't know how crappy some of the crap parts are. Bing's thread is informative in that it shows potential buyers that there IS a consequence to be dealt with when you cheap out on suspension.

[bing]

^^^

thank you

someone who isnt pissed that i am saying that the stuff is shit, i know because i used it and bought it and sold it and regret it and i am telling you what else out there is exactly like it

[ThatRicerDaniel]

rustoleum or something please.

[Bryants95240sx]

yeah you deff need to take some rustoleum to some of that suspension before it just starts falling apart.

[Titan]

yeah you deff need to take some rustoleum to some of that suspension before it just starts falling apart.



It is no where near as bad as it looks.


Simply because it doesn't look like a southern or californian underbody doesn't mean it is falling apart.

There is a good 1/4" thick layer of oil undercoating the subframe and floor pan. I took the rear multi-link apart in the summer, had it sandblasted, then coated it with redoxide and rockerguard.

Any remaining visable rust is surface.

The mass amount of salt everywhere is thanks to our Canadian winters. There is literally handfulls of salt on every major paved surface. What you see is just 3 days of accumulation.

[KA24DESOneThree]

there IS a consequence to be dealt with when you cheap out on suspension.

Quoted for truth.

Here's the deal: you buy cheap, you get cheap. You buy parts with rod ends that have zerk fittings and you're most certainly buying cheap.

I bought cheap tension rods because I figured hey, does it really matter here in SoCal? The answer is yes. The answer is that cheap suspension parts suck and will continue to suck. I replaced the tension rods with quality parts after I realized this. I stand behind Peak Performance and their want to use quality Aurora rod ends on their parts. I stand behind Alex Pfeiffer's refusal to use substandard rod ends.

Having suspension parts break is unacceptable.

Oh, and bing... right on man. Rock on.

[BOROSUN]

i had my tension/traction rod since 93' on my old car, now its on my current car. its always back of my mind that one of my monkey runs will snap some day.

[TurDz]

The cause of the failure was indeed corrosion, but not in the sense you imagine it.

The corrosion caused the spherical ball to seize in the liner. The ultimate reason for failure was BIND.


With the ball being seized, the RUCA acted like a solid link. So when the suspension travelled, something had to give.

In this case, it was the shank.



I'm glad the assessment in my earlier post was accurate in determining the failure. No one answered my question about whether or not the ball joint could be moved....

I don't know why you would spend $50 on a McMaster-Carr ball-joint rod end, there are many other alternatives from that website that would suffice. That's an economic thing though and if you feel like you need to go with the very best, by all means do it. (I hope it was $50 for multiple rod ends?)

Anyway, I understand the argument about cheap parts....but it's all a trade-off. I wouldn't expect any eBay parts to have any kind of reliability, due to cheaper materials and designs. But that doesn't mean that the higher-end ones won't fail either, it's just they have a much longer life before failure due to better quality critical components (e.g. ball joint).

[Jeff240sx]

People don't seem to understand the concept of 'surface rust' here. Up north, that's a great looking chassis for being an s13.
I think these companies need to be accountable for saving $20-30 here or there and providing sub-par products.
-Jeff

[KA24DESOneThree]

Well Jeff, I'm not so sure the companies are the ones to solely blame. I think the 240SX community as a whole tend to be rather cheap and would rather save the money than buy the better product. Take a look at all the people on this forum alone who have inferior strut tower braces, coilovers, seats, headers, downpipes, et cetera. There will always be the person who is willing to skimp on quality to save a buck here and there. Megan Racing's success is an example of just how many people are cheapasses.

By the way, I'm posting this as someone who used to be willing to skimp. Now I'm paying the higher prices, but ultimately I'm much more happy with the product I receive and the performance of the product. You don't see SCCA GT3 teams running around on inferior hardware, why should my track car?

[Jeff240sx]

No, I have to disagree. If a company wants to make a crappy speaker, or crappy seat, or crappy bumper, headers, manifolds, turbos.. more power to them.
If a company wants to use obviously inferior materials to make some of the most important parts on a car (anything attaching the frame to the tires are argueably the most critical parts anywhere on a car), then they're solely to blame.
There needs to be a line drawn between making a quick buck and risking that customer's life.
-Jeff

[WERDdabuilder]

well..lets hope someone learned their lesson

[Jeff240sx]

It's these companies that made the market price. When the only options were JIC and Kazama (I really don't know who was first, and don't care) selling at $350 for the set, some cheaply made crap came into the market and set the pricepoint to $200. They could have added $50 worth of quality materials in there, and made the same profit as before, and setting that pricepoint to $250-260. You can't blame customers for paying as little as possible, when the companies were the first to offer this low-price in the first place. And word can't spread to everyone and let a user know how crummy his planned parts are. It should have been up to the manufacturer to sell a safe product in the first place.
See what I'm trying to say? I don't think my first post elaborated enough.
-Jeff

[andrewmp6]

heres my point this is the reason you dont be a cheap ass on parts unless you have a death wish

[anotherblusi]

I am laughing my ass of right now!!!! Want to know why? Because 75% of the people reading this thread will STILL go out and buy some crappy knock-off low-quality part just to come back to this forum and post how they just wasted $100. Really makes you wonder huh? Why the hell aren't I making cheap parts and capitalizing on all the dumbfu*ks out there who don't fu*kin learn :) :) :)

[TheWolf]

being able to fabricate and use some common sense the ebay stuff is a deal.. Some stuff I've got has been utter crap. The rod ends are horrible. But like I have that same RUCA but it isn't rusty from florida rain and seems to be doing well. Alas since I plan on running a full drift season next year I made a different threaded plug that goes in the end so I could run standard american thread heim joints that are for race cars.. available in like in the speedway catalog. a full race chromoly heim joint is like $15-$20 if you shop around. Convert most of these suspension parts over to american thread and replacement/maintence parts are cheap. Rarely have I seen one actually break apart in the middle

[bing]

^^

but by then you are up in the range of Battle Version or SPL.

...

its true that people will still buy these arms, even though they can snap on your while you are driving.

i have more pictures of other failures and more pictures of why these arms are inferior with comparison shots as well if you guys wanna archive this thread or something

[Titan]

New heim joints came in.

$50 USD, a piece. So $100 USD in total.

Stainless ball
Stainless housing
PTFE (Teflon) self-lubricating liner


Overkill? Perhaps, but these are the absolute best joints money can buy, which puts me at ease after what happened.

Especially considering they are no famous name brand, but simply industrial quality, made in the USA, pieces of equipment.

Nevertheless, I am not putting complete trust in them. From this point forward, I will be inspecting my suspension on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if the component is OEM, expensive name brand, or knockoff. Regular inspection for all.



Although stainless may not share the same strength properties as say 4130 (Chromoly), the corrosion resistance is paramount in this application.


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7342/new32mo.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1542/new19dd.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9561/new20yv.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7898/compair5bz.jpg





There are a few lessons I have learned, and hopefully will serve others.


1. Never trust any brand of control arm simply because they are famous and/or expensive. Be educated. Look into the components as deeply as possible before putting them on your car. A name brand or price does not imply quality.

2. Understand the application for the component. Corrosive environment, or in-door use? Why go with stainless vs. mild vs. 4130 vs. etc?

3. Most important. INSPECT your components regularly. It doesn't matter how expensive or what name brand the piece is from, it NEEDS to be inspected for signs of failure. I made this mistake myself. Had I done a regular inspection, this could have been avoided.



Lastly, I would like to elaborate on the whole “buying cheap” deal.

The heim joint was in no doubt, absolutely worthless for this application.

However, the construction of the RUCA itself, welding and fitting of tube, is fine. I would not be surprised if it matched that of more expensive brands.

If that is the case, by spending an additional $100, I have a RUCA that is on par, if not better then most expensive brands.


Furthermore, I agree with Jeff.

There is no excuse for risking peoples lives to save dollars. Absolutely none. I could have been killed, and for what? So someone could pocket a few days worth of lunch money.

I also agree it was partially my fault for not inspecting the component in the first place, but only partially.

Imagine if auto manufacturers decided to cheap out and risk peoples lives. Could you say, “Well, it’s your fault for buying a Hyundai. That’s what you get when you cheap out.”

As Jeff also mentioned, it is fine to have cheap shifter knobs, seats, manifolds, etc. But when it comes to safety equipment, there is NO excuse. None.

[midnite_180]

i spent 130 shiped for mine, then replaced the ends and have had no probs and i dayly drive mine and where i live my streets suck ass.

[TheWolf]

if you didn't need metric thread that same rod end is like $10 in american thread... I'm sure I can find it in metric cheap if I looked hard enough... would you mind if I used your picture to sell a replacement insert and a new rod end to people at a cheap price to convert those debloz ones to american and strong rod ends?

[Wiisass]

About the new rod ends, they're probably better, but they aren't the best. I just looked around a little, but Aurora makes a high strength rod end with about 3.5 times as much static load capacity. Which is probably more than you need, but there are stronger rod ends out there. With the ones you bought I wouldn't be worried about them breaking like the last set, I would be more worried about wearing out the bearing kind of quickly. It looks like a high misalignment bearing and those are always weaker than the same bearing with a regular misalignment rating.

I also hate the way those look. I don't know how much weaker they are than the real good rod ends, but the shape of the outer housing just reminds me of some of the crappy rod ends that I've seen in the past. But this might just be my thinking or it's just the shape they are when they're high misalignment. But from experience the bearings are usually a lot looser than the real race rod ends.

[TurDz]

Yup, threre are actually name brand ones. Aurora, FK, NMB.

NMB are pretty much the ones that are used in Formula One.
Aurora is the top stuff too.

This website is a great place to find out how to choose rod ends:
http://bakerprecision.com/rodpick.htm

Thanks to RBS14 for referring me to that distributor.

Wiisass, I understand what type of outer housing shape you don't like. Is the pic below more like the "stronger" kind you're referring to? I haven't been able to find a source that sells this in this variation
btw, these are Largus S13/S14 sway bar endlinks...

http://completemotorsport.com/ebayimages/Largus_SwayBarLinks2.jpg

but nonetheless, each rod end has a specific static load capacity, so I really wouldn't worry about failure too much (as long as they're maintained, as stated before)

[Titan]

About the new rod ends, they're probably better, but they aren't the best. I just looked around a little, but Aurora makes a high strength rod end with about 3.5 times as much static load capacity.


As I stated in my first post, this failure had nothing to do with strength. It had to do with corrosion, eventually causing bind.

Bind is what caused the rod end shank to fracture and fail, as the ball seized and disallowed any movement of the arm when the suspension traveled.

Even if the rod end had a static load capacity of 1,000,000 lbs, it would not help at all, as something else would fail due to the bind.

The rod end I picked is the best for my application, as it is fully stainless steel. This will resist corrosion the best, which was the main cause for failure in the first place. Strength is no issue here.


Another thing, static load capacity has nothing to do with the shanks ability to resist shear stress.




With the ones you bought I wouldn't be worried about them breaking like the last set, I would be more worried about wearing out the bearing kind of quickly. It looks like a high misalignment bearing and those are always weaker than the same bearing with a regular misalignment rating.


Misalignment rating? Do you mean swivel range?


I also hate the way those look. I don't know how much weaker they are than the real good rod ends,


Looks mean absolutely nothing without stress calculations. Simply because you dislike the look does not mean the cross-section was not engineered to meet a specific second moment of area as well as further criteria.

These are "real good" rod ends. The construction warrants a static load capacity of approximately 5500 lbs, more then enough of a safety factor for the application.




But from experience the bearings are usually a lot looser than the real race rod ends.


Loose in what sense? Clearance between the ball and linear? Axially? How did you measure this clearance?


I looked at the baggie the ends came in, turns out they are FK bearings, which is a race oriented rod end manufacturer.


http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6278/fk4zu.jpg

[bing]

battle version uses FK.

you should've asked me man, i could probably have gotten you what you needed much cheaper.

mind you i wouldnt have been able to do it as quickly.

[Wiisass]

So binding was the reason your rod end broke. Are you trying to say that there is no correlation between the static load rating of a rod end and the strength of the shank. I hope you aren't because I wouldn't want the rod end with a static load rating of 25000lb to have the same strength shank as the 5000lb rated rod end.

I also hope you realize that you bought a commercial/industrial rated rod end. It is one of the lowest rated in rod ends that FK sells and not designed for automotive use, especially in a suspension. Take a look at the link provided above to the Baker Precision site, it talks about the different series of rod ends. The series you have, the CM series isn't talked too highly of. Becuase yours are stainless doesn't make them that much better.

My point of telling you that there were better rod ends out there was to just inform everyone that the ones you bought were not the "absolute best" that you can get. The other ones will cost more money, but there designed for this type of application. The ones you have are not.

When I said misalignment, that's what I meant. Look at the spec sheets, it's called the misalignment angle. Higher misalignment bearings are also much weaker than a regular rod end. They are not recommended for use in suspensions at all. And this isn't just coming from me, I know for a fact that if Carroll Smith were still alive he would tell you the same thing.

And the looks do have something to do with the strength of the piece if you know what you're looking at. You can tell just by looking at those things, that they shouldn't be on a suspension. The design of them is a giveaway as much as a grease fitting on the side would be. But they probably are good rod ends, just not for this application.

I mean loose as the ball is loose in the socket. Some axial play. I've seen them before and they just aren't something you use on a car. Especially for something critical like this.

So I hate to say it, but you cheaped out again. But not so much on purpose this time. I just hope these rod ends don't fail like your last set.

[Titan]

First off, let me say my first post was not meant to be offensive, but rather as a discussion.



So binding was the reason your rod end broke. Are you trying to say that there is no correlation between the static load rating of a rod end and the strength of the shank. I hope you aren't because I wouldn't want the rod end with a static load rating of 25000lb to have the same strength shank as the 5000lb rated rod end.


I am saying the material is what decides the shank strength in shear. There is more involved in the static load rating then simply the material. Such as the cross-section of housing, ball material, etc. The ball material is commonly composed of a different material then the housing.

So yes, the shank material between a heim joint rated at 5,000, and one at 15,000 can be the same, and consequently have the same resistance to shear stress.

Remember, the static load rating is AXIAL, not in shear. The ball and housing will give out far sooner then the shank in axial compression or tension.

Say one heim joint is rated at 3,000 lbs. static load. Say it is constructed with a zinc-coated mild steel ball, mild race, and mild housing & shank.

Say another heim joint is rated at 10,000 lbs. static load. Say it is constructed with a 4130 (chomoly) ball, mild race, and mild housing & shank.


Under shear conditions, BOTH shanks will fail under the SAME load.

This is because the second moment of area and yield stress are the same in both cases.



I also hope you realize that you bought a commercial/industrial rated rod end. It is one of the lowest rated in rod ends that FK sells and not designed for automotive use, especially in a suspension.


Simply because it is not the absolute highest quality, does not imply it is improper for suspension use. The load rating is far more then adequate.

I agree my statement about it being the best wasn't exactly right.

However, as I have mentioned before, for my application this is still one of the best choices. As strength is not an issue at all, but instead corrosion resistance means everything.






Becuase yours are stainless doesn't make them that much better.


On the contrary. This is what makes them entirely better.

Corrosion was the initial problem. Had the ends not corroded, the ball would have never seized and the shank would never have snapped.

The was the case in the summer, as the heim joint operated fine.

Once winter hit, the inadequacy of the material handling corrosion became apparent.


Therefore, a fully stainless joint is far superior to one that has a high iron content in terms of corrosion resistance.






When I said misalignment, that's what I meant. Look at the spec sheets, it's called the misalignment angle. Higher misalignment bearings are also much weaker than a regular rod end. They are not recommended for use in suspensions at all.


Once again, strength is NOT an issue. The issue all along has been corrosion resistance.



And the looks do have something to do with the strength of the piece if you know what you're looking at. You can tell just by looking at those things, that they shouldn't be on a suspension. The design of them is a giveaway as much as a grease fitting on the side would be. But they probably are good rod ends, just not for this application.


Looks don't mean much without stress calculations to back them up.

Not to sound offensive, but short of stress calculations based on the specific material and construction you cannot say "the design is a giveaway".

An I-Beam can look weak to some, but the cross-sectional design gives it the second moment of area to withstand tremendous loads.

I understand personal experience can be very worthy, but it must be under years of first hand observations.




I mean loose as the ball is loose in the socket. Some axial play. I've seen them before and they just aren't something you use on a car. Especially for something critical like this.


You've seen this particular F.K. bearing before and measured for axial play?

If so, I would like to compare to the measurements I took last night before installing them.

I found no play whatsoever, with the exception of liner clearance, which is needed for the ball to rotate.



So I hate to say it, but you cheaped out again. But not so much on purpose this time. I just hope these rod ends don't fail like your last set.


Again, on the contrary.


I could have spent more on a heim joint with an extremely high load capacity.

But guess what, if it isn't stainless, it will corrode, bind, and fail just like the first one.

[EchoOfSilence]

What rod ends do SPL use?

[KA24DESOneThree]

What rod ends do SPL use?

I've been trying to figure that out for a while.

Something makes me think even SPL doesn't know on their non-house arms (all but the tension rods, tie rod ends, and S14 RUCAs but if Kuah reads this PLEASE correct me!), because I doubt KTS is super-keen on letting out whose ends they use. It looks like they're zinc-plated steel but have no identifying markings. (I know because I have some KTS parts in my hands right now.) SPL says they're teflon-lined. I've had my hands on bad ends and good ends, and I'd say they're decent. There is as much axial play as the Aurora ends on my Peak arms, i.e. nil, but the bearing surround/bolt is of lesser quality and the overall design is comprised of two pieces. Mildly disappointing to say the least, but I lack the skills to create my own. I guess I'll add "Aurora rod ends for my LCAs" to my shopping list.

If anyone else could shed any more light that'd be great.

[240shorty]

You SoCal guys are one thing, you've probably never actually seen rust. The fella from Canada should know better. Rust does not cause that kind of failure in that time frame. If this were the case, us Michigan folks would all be walking to work, cause every car on the road would fall apart.

It's all about metal grade. Put a grade 8 bolt under my car for a year and it will be rusted, but it's still not gonna snap like that. Put a Home Depot generic bolt under there and it will snap in five minutes, rust or no rust. Surface rust is no big deal and I'd put money on that not being the cause of failure.

[TurDz]

But guess what, if it isn't stainless, it will corrode, bind, and fail just like the first one.

Add salt to the equation and stainless won't work well at all. Stainless steels are made to resist corrosion from pure water. You add salt, such as ocean water, or road salt, it will eventually corrode just the same.

[EchoOfSilence]

well, SPL says they're chromoly (4130) ends, teflon coated.

[Wiisass]

Alright, well your first point isn't valid becuase the rod ends with a higher load rating do use better materials. In terms of the FK rod ends, the one you bought uses 303SS while the one that I would recommend for this type of application uses heat treated 17-4PH stainless. The 17-4 is a stronger material than the 303. But you are right if they're the same material and same area then they will fail with the same load. But since they aren't, then the one that has the higher load rating and stronger materials will be less prone to break in all failure modes.

I still dont' agree that this was a good choice for a suspension rod end. I wouuld've chose something else and I would never recommend this type of rod end to be used for this application. But you can go ahead and run it, I just want to know when and how it breaks.

You really don't seem concerned with the strength of the piece. I mean sure the load rating soudns like it should be fine, but you are most likely going to experience some type of binding again considering the harsh environment that this piece will be seeing. At least run some type of boot on it to keep out the dirt and salt and other elements that will cuase it to break. I mean it's still a two-piece rod end, and it could still create some problems.

Oh well, another thing I realized while I was looking at the FK offerings is that you did buy the best 14x2 rod end available. It just sucks that the only rod end was a commercial application.

I have over 3 years experience dealing with different types of rod ends. I know what the cheap ones look like and what the good ones look like and they are distinct. I'm saying that from my experience, the ones you bought are not the ones that should be used in this type of application. So the looks of it are very relevant to me because I have dealt with this kind of stuff before. I mean just look at any race car and tell me where you find the the rod ends that look like yours. They will be used in just linkages and other types of non-critical pieces. The suspension arms will use something stronger. At least a 3-piece rod end, normal misalignment with a higher strength.

Oh well, I guess there's no point for any of this discussion because you don't have a choice for what rod end you will use unless you can find somewhere that offers a good rod end with such a weird thread. But just keep an eye on these, because even though they're SS, it doesn't mean that they're not succeptable to the elements.

[Titan]

You really don't seem concerned with the strength of the piece. I mean sure the load rating soudns like it should be fine, but you are most likely going to experience some type of binding again considering the harsh environment that this piece will be seeing.



The rod end will be fine as long as the ball does not seize in the liner.

This is the most important point:

Even if I bought the absolute best rod end like you recommend, if the ball seized then bind would occur and something would break. It may not be the rod end, but some suspension comonent would have to give. It is much easier and cheaper in this case to replace a rod end then say the RUCA itself.



At least run some type of boot on it to keep out the dirt and salt and other elements that will cuase it to break. I mean it's still a two-piece rod end, and it could still create some problems.


If you know where I can find a boot, please let me know. So far I haven't seen anything I can even cut to fit.



Oh well, another thing I realized while I was looking at the FK offerings is that you did buy the best 14x2 rod end available. It just sucks that the only rod end was a commercial application.


That's the thing, 14x2 is an incredibly uncommon thread size and pitch. To run something else, I would have to convert the insert in the RUCA itself to say either 1/2 or 5/8, perhaps 9/16 if I can find it.



But just keep an eye on these, because even though they're SS, it doesn't mean that they're not succeptable to the elements.


Of course, this is why I mention there is no substitute for regular inspection. Which I will be performing on a regular basis from now on, as mentioned in my second post.

[DeBastaard]

My opinion is that the chinese used crap material to build these things.
The idea behind it is good, I mean there couldn't be a real difference between let's say Cusco and these arms... As it all comes down to how they are finished.
Some cusco arms have FUBAR Welding on them as well... doesn't really give me a safe feeling by even looking at it.

[Gladman]

My opinion.... you should have greased that stuff.

One of the problems with made in china car parts is they dont come with instructions, if you purchased MOOG ball joints and didnt put grease in them, they would seize up and your wheels would fall off...

Id say its pretty obvious with a joint like that to grease it. If you have covered it with some white lithium grease it may have lasted 10 years, instead of 1.

Also, no one hear knows your driving habits, a part wouldnt rust up and seize if its constantly being worked. I had the same arm snap on me while i was drifting, and it was a factory part. Everyone has their duds, you got a dud set and you probably could have greased them. Lots of people run these arms and have no problems at all. And is that not a grease nipple right on the joint itself?

[SR240DET]

so those rod ends you posted..... that is the exact measurement to raplace the rod ends on the cheap ebay arms?

[Titan]

My opinion.... you should have greased that stuff.




Read my first post.

They were properly greased with lithium grease after each oil change. The last one being 5 weeks prior to failure.





Id say its pretty obvious with a joint like that to grease it. If you have covered it with some white lithium grease it may have lasted 10 years, instead of 1.


Nope, not even one year with regular greasing.





Also, no one hear knows your driving habits, a part wouldnt rust up and seize if its constantly being worked.


My car is a daily driver, and has been since I installed these arms.

During the summer it was a short commute to school everyday.

Starting in the winter I drive 60km back and forth to work everyday.

I assure you, the joint was constantly worked.




Lots of people run these arms and have no problems at all.



One failure speaks louder then a million successes.

What are the details of these other people? Climate? Salted roads? Daily mileage?

Simply because the arms haven't failed yet on other rides, does not mean they are insusceptible to failure in the future.

[Titan]

so those rod ends you posted..... that is the exact measurement to raplace the rod ends on the cheap ebay arms?




Yes.

Same thread, M14x2. Same ball bore, M14.


You will however need to reuse the ball spacers.

I am going to turn some new ones out of 304 stainless soon and replace the zinc coated ones the joint originally came with.

[KA24DESOneThree]

well, SPL says they're chromoly (4130) ends, teflon coated.

Maybe the bearings themselves are chromoly with teflon liners, but here's pics of the rod ends:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/OppositeLock/DSC05258.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/OppositeLock/DSC05259.jpg

Keep in mind these are on the most expensive single suspension item KTS sells.

[bing]

those are basic 2-piece, PTFE rod ends...

under perfect conditions they would be awesome but still not the best, those rod ends are under $15 usd each.

you will need dustboots to keep dirt and other gunk out of the liner which will eventually wear-out the bearing.

i have about 40 of those PTFE (teflon-lined) and non PTFE sitting here now.

[1mns13]

cheap chinese junk. There's always a market for cheap. Walmart is in business because of it.

[KA24DESOneThree]

those rod ends are under $15 usd each

Exactly. Why KTS would cheap out on the most specialized item in their repertoire is beyond me. The SOLE PURPOSE of these arms is racing, why compromise their usability in such a harsh environment?

I'm just having trouble finding replacements of the same size... and stomaching the cost. It will add something like $90 to the cost of each RLCA and $45 to the cost of each FLCA. I'm probably going to stick with the factory ends at least until I have my big brakes all paid for. Christ I have a lot of money into this car...

[TurDz]

May as well open up this thread again too...these are very important issues that need to be resolved.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=90653

Most of all, we don't want anything less than the BEST (or somewhere near the top) quality rod end ball joints. Especially for those in areas of snow and salt.

[EchoOfSilence]

I'm just having trouble finding replacements of the same size... and stomaching the cost. It will add something like $90 to the cost of each RLCA and $45 to the cost of each FLCA. I'm probably going to stick with the factory ends at least until I have my big brakes all paid for. Christ I have a lot of money into this car...
Oh, you mean for the LCA's you bought from SPL? Were they KTS or SPL in-house?

Which ends were you considering using to replace the ends the LCA's come with?

[bing]

what spec end do you need?

if you need an SAE 5/8" i can hook you up, i have some serious ones coming this week. i'll take some pics when they arrive.

[KA24DESOneThree]

The control arms listed on SPL's website are KTS.

I was considering Aurora AMTs. The AMTs are rated at 28k pounds, the FK JMTs at 11.5k with a price difference of about $20 per end. My dilemma with this is listed below.

I've been trying to measure it right and I always get 11/16" or 17.5mm. The closest end I've found that actually might fit is made by Fluoro and costs $106 each. WTF, am I just stupid or something? It's 1/8" off 5/8" and 1/8" smaller than 3/4".

Bing, thanks for the offer, it's much appreciated.

[SR240DET]

wow!! this is big... im glad i didnt go with SPL parts now... im just gonna say fuck it and get my buddy on base to tig me some arms with my own bearings...

when i saw this guys tc rods that came here from texas.... i noticed some rust... it wasnt surface rust either... looked like it was kinda deep...

[Titan]

The control arms listed on SPL's website are KTS.

I was considering Aurora AMTs. The AMTs are rated at 28k pounds, the FK JMTs at 11.5k with a price difference of about $20 per end. My dilemma with this is listed below.



As mentioned several times already, having a rediculous load rating won't prevent failure.


The important part is to make sure the ball and housing material are made of stainless, or something equally resistant to corrosion.




I've been trying to measure it right and I always get 11/16" or 17.5mm. The closest end I've found that actually might fit is made by Fluoro and costs $106 each. WTF, am I just stupid or something? It's 1/8" off 5/8" and 1/8" smaller than 3/4".



What are you measuring?

Are you measureing the diameter of the threaded male rod end, or the female insert?

Also, I hope you are using a vernier caliper.

Worse comes to worse, you can always go to a hardware store and see which nut fits the rod end.

[[email protected]]

What rod ends do SPL use?

Our in house products (tension rods, tie rod ends, etc) use QA1 2-piece chomoly PTFE-lined rod ends. Products we import from Japan (NAMS btw, not KTS) use M16 (M18 for lower arms) steel 2-piece PTFE-lined rod ends. These may not be the best rod ends, but do have high pre-load new, so they wear slowly and takes years to develop any play. They are also oversized for the application which increases their load rating and helps reduce wear. Our customers and our own experience can attest that these hold up well over years, and we have had zero complaints about them binding/seizing (search our history)...

We do stock QA1 M16 3-piece (chromoly housing, stainless race, bearing steel ball, PTFE lined) rod ends that we offer to customers for the subsidised price of $20/pair. We would have added them to the arms we sell but this is a very price sensitive market, and in our experience unecessary since the regular ends work very well. But if you want the upgraded ends, we have them, just give us a call. BTW, M18 3-piece ends are unfortunately not readily available.

I know some vendors make a big deal out of using 3-piece rod ends, but FYI while 3-piece rod ends generally wear better than 2-piece ends, their one drawback is the reduced misalignment. That is why we do not use 3-piece ends on our tie rod ends and tension rods. On the rear multillink where high misalignment is unecessary 3-piece rod ends can be used.

BTW I don't know why this is such a hot topic now, I thought it has been well known for a while now the greasable rod ends sold by some vendors (and on ebay) is junk. A search would have revealed several posted failures from 1-2 years back... But if some of you remember, in theory these sounded good at the time, some vendors hyped these type of ends as "protecting your investment" because you can grease them and have them last forever. Similarly, an all SS rod ends sounds good, but with all due respect to member "titan", I would not recommend them for race use unless you oversize them by 2 sizes, because they have only about half the load rating of a regular steel rod end.

If you live in an environment with alot of road salt, please wash and inspect your suspension regularly. Even with an all SS rod end, other parts of the arm, the subframe, spindle, bolts, etc can still develop rust.

[bing]

Hey Kuah,

yeah those ends are exactly the ones i have here.

i have a ton of other pics of the china arms but everytime i post them up people get really angry at me, usually from the companaies that sell them.

unfortuantely not enough people know about the dangers of these arms, not nearly enough people.

the scene is getting much bigger and there are 50 new guys a month looking into it and they end up getting the cheap arms.

its important to keep this issue salient so people stop making the mistake.

[EchoOfSilence]

I'll agree with bing, this issue is too important to not be discussed.

So is it safe to say the QA1 M16 3-piece ends are the way to go? Or are the Aurora counterparts better?

[Chinoliro]

http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodacc.htm

[KA24DESOneThree]

I'll agree with bing, this issue is too important to not be discussed.

So is it safe to say the QA1 M16 3-piece ends are the way to go? Or are the Aurora counterparts better?

QA1 3-piece rod ends are all any of us should need, really. Aurora may be better, but they're more likely than not more expensive, especially considering the prices Kuah is offering the QA1s at. The QA1 rod ends on my SPL v2 tension rods are very nice.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Kuah. Nagisa makes the arms, and the size of the lower arm rod ends are M18; exactly the information I needed.

I agree with Bing. The less failures of suspension parts we have, the better off we are. I sold my old crappy tension rods (from a company who has advertised on this site in the group buy section many times and whose name is now synonymous with "cheap" to me) to a friend of mine and now I'm offering $20 to him towards the purchase of good-quality tension rods. This trend of cheaper-is-better when it comes to parts is ridiculous. Megan Racing should be nowhere near as big as it is now, but it is. All these eBay companies count on our lack of knowledge to make the big bucks and it's working quite well.

Bing, you're also right about the problem being lack of education. The more people who read threads like this and learn and realize that their pinching of pennies may result in bodily harm, the better.

[[email protected]]

So is it safe to say the QA1 M16 3-piece ends are the way to go? Or are the Aurora counterparts better?

IMO there is no significant difference in quality of rod ends of similar spec/construction from QA1, Aurora, etc. Aurora has a better variety of metric rod ends, but you may find that you cannot order everything they list in their catalog, for example I tried ordering some M18 rod ends from Aurora for a customer who insisted on the 3pc. ends, and even though they are listed in the catalog they do not stock it nor want to manufacture them (unless you are ordering 1000pc. or more).

FWIW I run the regular rod ends on my Z32 (daily driver, monthly HPDEs, and 10.90 at the dragstrip) and I don't feel the need to use the 3-piece rod ends myself.

[bing]

i used the QA1 non-PTFE version of the ones Kuah uses on TC rods that i made last year, also used them for sway bar endlinks

http://bings.ca/images/frontsuspension1

the rod ends lasted a full year with no problems including being driven through winter in Canada. i never greased them or anything and did not notice any noises.

then i wrote off the car and snapped the hardened steel portion of the arm... the aluminum rod was fine but you can attribute that to details of the impact, angle, load etc.

for the stuff i make now i have a whole load of the top o' the line QA1 3-piece seal sealing ends coming in this week. cant wait.

up here in Canada we need rod ends that will kepe dirt and salt out of the rod end, that is why i decided to overkill it.

[shortandsour]

so how are these as far as quality goes??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rock-Crawler-4-Link-3-4-Rod-End-Kit-Rod-Ends-Heim-joint_W0QQcmdZViewItemcategoryZ33583QQitemZ8734756 7QQrdZ1

[EchoOfSilence]

dude. no ebay links allowed. anyway, link is broken.

[NemeGuero]

You are the weakest link!! GOOD BYE!

[bing]

^^^

worst post ever...what year is it anyways?

[[email protected]]

so how are these as far as quality goes??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rock-Crawler-4-Link-3-4-Rod-End-Kit-Rod-Ends-Heim-joint_W0QQcmdZViewItemcategoryZ33583QQitemZ8734756 7QQrdZ1

They are QA1 Endura rod ends, top quality ends but 3/4" thread is not going to fit anything on the market other than our tension rods. And there are no metric sizes for the Endura rod ends.

[bing]

Kuah, it is true that the XM series rod ends shouldnt be used in the TC rods because of the lower misalignment?

[[email protected]]

Kuah, it is true that the XM series rod ends shouldnt be used in the TC rods because of the lower misalignment?

IMHO guys with coilovers are probably fine, guys running softer stock or near stock springs might experience clunking during hard cornering.

[Neejay]

With all of this being said, any reviews/opinions on the powertrix RUCAs?

I drove on mine for a couple of months before my starter took a crap.

[chmercer]

powertrix is worst of the worst. lol zerk fittings.

[MrSkinny]

the heim joints of my powertrix tc rods fall out of the socket when i hit a pothole. and the surface is rusted like a biatch.

[Neejay]

powertrix is worst of the worst. lol zerk fittings.
Not the zerk fitting versions, the newer ones (and by newer, Im talking about since last summer). I wouldnt have gotten the zerk fitted version...

[red240]

I have these and they work fine no problems!
http://www.powertrix.com/S14suspkit.JPG

[bing]

IMHO guys with coilovers are probably fine, guys running softer stock or near stock springs might experience clunking during hard cornering.

can you explain how this makes a difference.

i can imagine that because the misalignment is lower there is less possible angle but i wouldnt have thought there would be much movement like that, i guess there is.

sorry if my terminology is off.

[[email protected]]

can you explain how this makes a difference.

i can imagine that because the misalignment is lower there is less possible angle but i wouldnt have thought there would be much movement like that, i guess there is.

sorry if my terminology is off.

On the tension rods you need to consider the change in angle of the front lower arm as the suspension travels. The more the suspension travels the more the lower arm rotates, so guys with soft springs will need more misalignment in the tension rod end to avoid binding.

Case in point, the problem some had experienced with the energy suspension tension rod bushings cracking the lower arms was due to excessive bind in the bushings under rotation of the lower arm...