8" or 9" - How wide is wide-enough?

[mellojoe]

I have the option to buy some new wheels. I was about to pick up a set of 17x8" (+22 offset) when I was offered a set of 17x9" (+17 offset) for the same price.

This car is mostly a daily driver, with some visits to the drag strip, occassional road courses, and not yet been to an Auto-X.

I'm trying to get some opinions of which way to go.

'98 s14

17 x 8" ?
or
17 x 9" ?

THANKS!

[ThatGuy]

It's all a matter of personal opinion. For me, a wheel should be at least half as wide as it is tall. So unless you have 17x8.5 available, I'd go with 17x9.

[aznpoopy]

just looking at those sizes, the 9s should be a better fit for the s14 then the 8s. i guess that also depends on how 'flush' you personally prefer your wheels.

there's other stuff to consider...
weight
spoke design (brake upgrades?)
cost per tire
etc etc etc.

[s14xman]

i'd go with the 17x9's

[OptionZero]

A 17x8 is fine; it's wide enough to fit a 225 tire and be square.
This of course assuming flushness isn't a concern.

A 225/245 stagger is pretty common, but may lead to understeer. Alignment and dampening settings could probably alleviate that.

For the drag strip...well...who cares. Your alignment settings will be different for autox/drag/roadcourse. A drag car will obviously run fatter wheels in back, but for autoX or road course u want more grip up front than a drag car, because we need to do these things called stopping and turning.

[HyperTek]

stagger setup is nice too, like 17x8 in front and 17x9 in rear. Id usually perfer stagger setup. But if you go with 17x9 all around, tahts nice too, just stagger your tires *i.e. run a lil thinner width in front* and it will look clean.

[wootwoot]

I'd shred 17x9 with 245 all around if I had an s14

[OptionZero]

i wanted a stagger just because I wanted the look of fat tires in back...but decided it wasn't worth running a taller/wider tire that would slow me down, the na/ka is straining already

that, and the type/brand of tire you want may not come in the sizes you want


next time i wanna go 245/40/17 all around, others are doin it

[cgguy]

Go with the 9's! I've got 8.5 out back and I wish they were wider.

[Twinturbozs]

with the 9's you may have to do a bit of fender rolling depending on the size of tire you run.

[mellojoe]

Thank you for the opinions!

I do NOT want a stagger setup. I'm tired of not being able to rotate my tires to my satisfaction. I am going with all 4 the same so I can get good even wear by rotating them around. I'm even keeping my eyes out for tires that will allow for switching left to right for even better wear characteristics.

I will keep checking back. Keep 'em coming.

[EchoOfSilence]

if staggered causes understeer, what's the point? i don't get it :wtc:

oh, and you better check if the sizes don't put u in a higher class

[OptionZero]

Stagger changes the balance of the car toward understeer...but thats still very general. The amount of stagger and the alignment and other suspsneion sessions affect your car's handling as well.

With more power on tap, a car may need added traction in rear to put it down properly.

Some people also want to have a little understeer (at least on turn-in).

[KiDyNomiTe]

I have 9.5s up front, but go 9s up front so you wont have to use spacers... And in the end will give you a chance to run wider tires if you ever want.

[sw20>>s14]

if staggered causes understeer, what's the point? i don't get it :wtc:
cuz its not all about dori dori oversteeroo...

once my package comes in, ill be running 225/45 and 245/40 on my 14...i dont care if its not drifter and i dont wanna hear the same shit: "why dont you stretch em? your gonna have hella flex when drifting...wha wha wha..." its cuz i have a seperate set of wheels for that...but yeah, i agree on the benefits of non stagger...

personally, if this is going to be your only set of wheels (besides stock), id get the none stagger...if i were limited to one set, id get the non stagger too...

[Jefferson]

If it were me I would go with the 9's all the way around. 245's sound good but you might have to roll the front fender a tad, in the rear you should be alright. Also what kind of suspension are you running and how low do you plan on going?

[mellojoe]

Suspension is AGX's with Eibach Pro-Kit. A subtle but firm drop.
Infiniti q45 "big" brake kit with stainless steel lines
Tein Tie-rods and Ends
Cusco strut-tower brace
300zx Limited-Slip Diff
Infiniti j30 axles

Thats the supension thus far.

[KA24DESOneThree]

9s all around wrapped in 245/40s.

Even wear is easy if you corner hard at least a couple times a day and run sane toe. Edit: Just saw your mod list... you'll probably kill the outside of your tires first.

17s on that setup will look like you want to go out and crush cars inside a stadium filled with rednecks.

[sideview_180sx]

i'm on 9s all around on my s13. I want lower offset up front (at least +0 offset) and 9.5s in the rears ( no offset higher then 10 ). Running the same sizes all around will offer good advantages in a good amount of contact patch all around.

+1 for the 9s

[EchoOfSilence]

what are your offsets and tire sizes, sideview?

[Wei240]

i'd go 9's all around,
but as mentioned, 8's all around is fine too, depends on what you want to do

the stagger issue will probably come into play when you're putting down phat power, if not, then yeah, i'd just make all 4 the same

look at M3's, don't even know what they push these days, but it's probably close to 300 whp, and i believe they run 8's in front and 9's in rear...

[OptionZero]

333hp i believe, and a new one will have a larger engine with even more

but yeah, stagger for turbo, probably not if ur still naka.

[mellojoe]

How will putting down more power require a staggered setup? I see no need in that. But, please enlighten me. ?

And how does my suspension "kill the outside of my tires first"? That sounds a little misguided. In fact, I'm currently running -3 degrees camber which is killing the insides of the tires. Hence, I need new tires, and a tire that will allow for rotating left-to-right.

And I don't understand what you mean about "crushing cars". Are you implying that I'm not "slammed to the grizzound"? And wrecking my oil pan in every mountain pass I drive? I'm no ricer, thank you.

[sw20>>s14]

In fact, I'm currently running -3 degrees camber which is killing the insides of the tires.
actually, toe settings are a bigger factor in premature wear...camber does its share, but not as much as aggresive toe...what are you running?


And I don't understand what you mean about "crushing cars". Are you implying that I'm not "slammed to the grizzound"? And wrecking my oil pan in every mountain pass I drive? I'm no ricer, thank you.
take it easy...your not very mello, joe...hes just saying that itll look like a monster truck with thick 245s all around...jeez

and as for the stagger question...when a certain amount of power threshold is met, some think/feel that setting up the tires for understeer is needed...but personally, thats when i would go non stagger; better turn in...

[evoandy]

How will putting down more power require a staggered setup? I see no need in that. But, please enlighten me. ?

And how does my suspension "kill the outside of my tires first"? That sounds a little misguided. In fact, I'm currently running -3 degrees camber which is killing the insides of the tires. Hence, I need new tires, and a tire that will allow for rotating left-to-right.

And I don't understand what you mean about "crushing cars". Are you implying that I'm not "slammed to the grizzound"? And wrecking my oil pan in every mountain pass I drive? I'm no ricer, thank you.


Staggering tires helps cars with high hp because you have more contact patch in the rear. You sacrifice neutral handling for the ability to put more power down. with 17x9s, you'd probably have to have a great deal of power before that becomes a problem though, Just an SR swap or a KA-T where you're putting down maybe 220 or so whp shouldn't have you worried...

Your toe alignment is killing your tires faster than your camber.

lowering a car lowers its center of gravity, which has all sorts of handling benefits associated with it. If you have an eibach kit, you could lower your car ALOT more than it is now without risking damage to your oil pan. I'm not sure why you're making judgements and calling people ricers based on things you obviously don't have much of an understanding of..

[mellojoe]

Yes, yes. I got a little out of whack. I apologize. I was posting from work, and it was a long day. I apologize.

OK. Yes, I understand that camber doesn't increase wear. However, my current tires have over 40,000 miles on them. I couldn't expect much more. However, all 40,000 miles are on the insides of the tires. The outsides have some meat left on them. ie: I'd rather be able to rotate left-to-right, and vise-versa.

And, yes, I do understand the physics of lowered dynamics. I chose to go with a small drop because this is my daily driver. It is a weekend toy, too, but I've got to drive all over the dern Ozark mountains to get anywhere, and Arkansas is never quick in fixing roads. I had interpreted an earlier post as poking fun at my "small" drop, and not the way it was intended.

Again, I apologize. I re-read my posts, and I was a bit off color. I'm home. I'm much more mellow now. ;)

[jobestudios]

so for daily driver, staggering is not really wise?

[Wei240]

so for daily driver, staggering is not really wise?

that's your personal preference...

because if you want to rotate your wheels, and most likely people have directional tires, having all 4 the same will save you on tire wear in the long run

some people like the looks of stagger, i personally don't

[Maeda]

Staggered
17x9.5 and 17x10ish

No stagger
17x9ish all around. You can't go wrong really.

I can't believe the discussion is so long on this one topic.

[DoriftoSlut]

My 18x9.5s and 18x10.5s make me understeer into small children and kill nuns... Wait. That's bullshit. Just like 80% of these responses.

[OptionZero]

but what tire size are you running, and where are you running, and what alignment, and any other parts...

[DoriftoSlut]

but what tire size are you running, and where are you running, and what alignment, and any other parts...
225/40/18 and 245/40/18. Alignment done by myself... about -3 F, -2.5 R camber, 0-ish toe all around and 8 or 8.5 caster up front. Parts? SPL Z32 tie rods, JIC FLT-A2 coils, SPL RUCA, SPL TC Rods.

[OptionZero]

same tire compound all around? which track? psi on each end? damper settings?
how much do you weigh?

what brand cereal did you eat for breakfast?

[slideways2004]

same tire compound all around? which track? psi on each end? damper settings?
how much do you weigh?

what brand cereal did you eat for breakfast?

:rofl: :rofl: ^^^ ummm knock off brand cocoa krispies!

a little off topic but 17x9 0 offset, would it rub? i can't test-fit the wheels right now, but would it rub in the front of a s14? with similar alignmnet settings as above with a little less caster and camber in teh front

[DoriftoSlut]

same tire compound all around? which track? psi on each end? damper settings?
how much do you weigh?

what brand cereal did you eat for breakfast?
Front tyres are Advan Neova, rears Falken ST115. Track? WSIR? PSI i like... 32ish in front and about 27-32 in rear. Damper... fuck if i know... Foot to the floor and figure it out! Camber is actually like -3ish in rear. Car weighs... mmm 2400-2500? Don't have time for cereal.

[OptionZero]

Ok, so to summarize:

You do not have understeer with a 18x9.5 and 18x10.5 stagger w/ 225s and 245s...

...as long as you run a super fuckin sticky damn-near-race tire in front with daily-driver-non-max-performance tires in rear

...less tire pressure in rear

...a coupla degrees more caster than stock, lots of camber in front and and rear

...lighten the car by a coupla hundred pounds

Gosh, i sure wish you mentioned that in your original post.

[slownslurious]

staggering is for looks only and anyone that says differently is deluded. Unless you are running big n littles for drag use its show car.
I run staggered offset for looks, 17x9 all around, +27 front +17 rear.

[the head]

alright this stagger under steer shit is bs here is a list of factory vehicles I have driven on a track or at an auto x and all of them have staggered tires and few have understeer

03 porsche carrera 225/285 18 stagger no understeer
89 ferrari testarossa 225/245 16 stagger no understeer
04 MB SL55 AMG 245/295 18 stagger slight understeer but car weighs over 4000 lbs so its justified
99 Corvette 245 17/275 18 stagger no understeer
94 trans am 1LE suspension package 255/275 16 (used A032R race tires on front and rear)

As for running a little less pressure in the rear...that is really common in RWD cars check out the pressure recommendations in the door of most cars, it assists with more traction for the drive wheels and better weight transfer.

as for stagger being for show cars your type of stagger (offset) is yes but most people stagger tires to provide more traction for the drive wheels thus using a wider rim and wider tires to provide a larger footprint to the wheels propelling the vehicle

I dont know anyone (except that douche from SCC) that has ever published that cars with staggered tires understeer and it was nothing but his retarded assed opinion. Even if there was theory behind it not everything from theory balances from real life.

[OptionZero]

All cars running...300+ HP to use that rear grip.

[the head]

the trans am was 260 at the wheels

[OptionZero]

Carrera = rear engine, extreme weight bias on the rear

Ferrari = Mid-engine, again...very low inertia

benz = you already said it had understeer

Vette = dunno what, but it's got more than enough torque to spin the rears

trans am = suspension package? what else was in the package?

Do spec miatas run staggered tires? it not, why not?

Back to the original point:
Staggering is unnecessary on a low power'd car, and probably not until you start going to upgraded turbos.

Extreme staggers can be detrimental even with fair amount of power (250rwhp-300rwhp); for example, def on freshalloy ran i believe 235/275 or something like that, and had difficulty getting the rears heated up and grippy during warm ups.

Again...on a street car, it probably won't matter one iota, and stagger is for looks

When you start throwing in suspension modifications...well...it depends on tuing. Fair enough?

As for exotic cars...i'll default to the wisdom of Porsche and Ferrari for their specific goals and cars.

[the head]

factory suspension package it is the police spec suspension stiffer shocks and stiffer springs that lower car about .25 front and .5 rear

the SL does not push because of stagger it pushes because of inertia

there is no doubt you can over tire a car but you made the blanket statement that all cars with stagger push, you were wrong leave it at that

as for the spec miatas not running staggered tires IIRC its because they can't due to the rules of the series

[DoriftoSlut]

All cars running...300+ HP to use that rear grip.
Yeah including mine!



Ok to summarize:
-I don't have a stock 240.
-Its a drift car with well over 300 hp (about 320 on wastegate spring (10psi) gonna tune it for 15-20psi so yeah..)
-These AD07s are well over a year old, came with the wheels (i would probably run them or RT615s when i get new ones)
-I run 235/40/17 and 245/40/18 on my other wheels... still stagger and with Bridgestone RE730s F and ST115s R or ST115s all around.

[OptionZero]

A 17x8 is fine; it's wide enough to fit a 225 tire and be square.
This of course assuming flushness isn't a concern.

A 225/245 stagger is pretty common, but may lead to understeer. Alignment and dampening settings could probably alleviate that.

For the drag strip...well...who cares. Your alignment settings will be different for autox/drag/roadcourse. A drag car will obviously run fatter wheels in back, but for autoX or road course u want more grip up front than a drag car, because we need to do these things called stopping and turning.

I made no such blanket statement. You wanted to believe that I made a blanket statement, and didn't bother to read what I posted.

Stagger changes the balance of the car toward understeer...but thats still very general. The amount of stagger and the alignment and other suspsneion sessions affect your car's handling as well.

With more power on tap, a car may need added traction in rear to put it down properly.

Some people also want to have a little understeer (at least on turn-in).

Again...I qualified my statement about staggering with mention of damping settings and alignment.

[Dousan_PG]

i love staggered set up
understeer yeah if yo u suck

17x9 215/40/17 rt 615s/st115
17x10 235/40/17 federal ss595/fm901/st115/misc tire here...

new wheels are
17x9.5 235/40/17 ad07
18x10.5 255/40/18 or might go wider depending on how much power the new motor will lay down

[Omarius Maximus]

Hey, the 1995 E36 M3 did not run a staggered setup while all subsiquent E36 M3s did. Guess what? Not many people know that, because no one can tell the damn difference. I think running non stagger is good for practicality purposes. Rotating tires is key, especially if you drive hard. But I like stagger too, cause when you going really fast and abruptly let of the throttle or trail brake hard, the tail doesn't come out as fast as it normally would. Like 99% of the threads here in Zilvia, its all subjective.

[TurDz]

Guys, you are all missing the point here! you shouldn't even be arguing about this....

Wider wheels/tires in the rear does NOT cause OVERALL UNDERSTEER, but does push the car's handling to that side of the spectrum. For all of you arguing how staggered wheels does not make the car understeer, think about the same cars with NON staggered wheels/tires. With this setup you can definately say the car is more prone to move towards the oversteer side of the spectrum.

So a staggered setup does introduce some understeer, but not an overall understeering vehicle. Too many other factors contribute to overall vehicle handling since it's all relative. As an extreme example, 3 inch wider wheels in the rear compared to the front, but the front is set up with R-compounds while the rears are cheap street tires.

All staggering does is contribute to more contact patch in the rear, which will dissapate heat more quickly and aid in rear end stability and traction.

back to how wide is wide-enough...;)

[KiDyNomiTe]

All cars running...300+ HP to use that rear grip.
I have like 230HP, if i'm lucky. I also had a boost leak when running bigger tires

225/235 but now I will have 235s all around. F9.5s R10s or 9.5s.

Its not hard...